Your Thoughts On Meditation?

[PapaGang]

• I have stopped meditating consistently and notice a difference in my muscle tension and general irritability
• Getting back into it, it is a practice for sure

Agreed. I'm starting tomorrow. I need to get back to it.

 

[Tom H.]

Yes, of course it doesn't. The first thing everyone should do is get really clear on what their goal is. Meditation, regardless of your spiritual tradition, was not a practice that was developed to attract more wealth.

In Buddhism, where most of the meditation practices popular today come from, meditation was developed with one goal in mind: to develop insight into the true nature of existence, more specifically to realise that all phenomena are empty of self, impermanent, and ultimately unsatisfactory, leading you to become detached from them. That is where meditation is taking you to and that's what it was designed for. So it's not surprising that money isn't falling from the sky, it wasn't meant to!

Now, if that is not in line with your goals or aspirations, then probably it will be a hindrance in your path, and not something that will help you. Do not forget that many people, see Tim Ferris, meditate because it is popular and trendy to do so, not because of any other reason. It is a form of virtue signalling. So do not be tricked by all millionaires claiming to meditate into thinking that this has anything to do with their success. It's just a current fad, that they all join by virtue of being human beings and members of this culture, and wanting to show that their are modern and in-trend with what's going on.

Also, another important point. Meditation is at its heart a spiritual practice, so even if your reasons for practicing are spiritual, you must still make sure that you practice is aligned with your goals. For example, Buddhist meditation is different than Christian contemplative prayer (the equivalent of meditation in Christianity). If your goal is the attainment of "enlightenment" you'll make a different choice than if your goal is knowing & loving God. The practices are but superficially the same, and the difference is coming largely from the intentions and beliefs that the practitioner bears on the practice. For example, if you're searching for the loving presence of God, you'll purposefully cultivate and attract a different experience than if you reject the loving presence as merely another impermanent, not-self, and ultimately unsatisfactory experience that requires detachment. Your beliefs help shape your intention, and your intention is just as important as the sharpness of your attention in your meditative practice.

These distinctions become very important, and most New Age practitioners who create a mish-mash of traditions miss them.

I haven't posted on any of these meditation threads because they're mostly dumb, like you explained... trendy, virtue signaling, etc. I just want to give you props for bringing up the three characteristics.

Nothing is satisfying, nothing is permanent, and nothing is you.

Edit: I want to add that there's no room for slackers in Buddhism, your either working hard meditating or working hard fulfilling your householder responsibilities. So there's nothing wrong with being rich, one of the big figures in early Buddhism was Anathapindika who was immensely wealthy and also attained stream entry (and maybe further, I don't remember). But meditation won't make you rich, instead you'll realize that insight is way more valuable then any amount of money.

Most people will probably just be wasting their time half-assing meditation the same way they half-a$$ entrepreneurship.

 

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[sam108@nahaka]

I think you really kinda guy who indeed is interested in meditation which is really a good thing to build one's life. Meditation has the ability to form one's life. Keep it up.
I had started it in 1995 and I want to share my experience with like-minded people.
I want to ask you some questions regarding meditation.

 

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[sam108@nahaka]

I second this regarding Eckhardt Tolle's Power of Now @MJ DeMarco!

where can I find it?

 

[Sid781]

where can I find it?

Amazon, or any other ebook distributor.

 

[RealDreams]

Buddha was asked, “What have you gained from meditation?” He replied, “Nothing!” Then he continued, “However, let me tell you what I have lost: anger, anxiety, depression, insecurity, and fear of old age and death.”

Very well said. I started noticing this, too!

 

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[Vas87]

Meditation has made me realise just how many useless or negative thoughts I have. At the same time this heightened awareness has made me actually feel unhappy because I keep battling to change the thoughts to a more positive tune, which does not feel natural.
I guess in my case ignorance was bliss.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

I second The Untethered Soul.

I've heard some much about this book. I need it on the reading list.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

“God has the idea of this or that body sub species aternitatis”-forgot which proposition

he is basically saying here that there exists an “intelligence” in our mind that perceives things outside the aspect of time. Under the aspect of eternity in Latin.

“the mind can only exercise memory or imagination while the body endures”-don’t know the proposition off the top of my head.

he’s saying here that the physical is distinct from the mental but the same thing. And that the mental can exist outside of time. And that our body is the one that creates the ego because time created the body.

Ultimately, what Spinoza is saying is that the finite world (your mind, my mind, natura naturata, etc.) is unreal. Only Substance, ie God, The Absolute (or natura naturans) is real. I very much agree with the acosmist reading of Spinoza as the correct reading of his writings.

So yes, definitely he would be sympathetic to meditation (or rather - contemplation, as it was known in the West).

But sadly the average person just doesn’t give a sh*t about any of these tough questions so it’s really a waste of time.

I would say because they don't see the value in metaphysical speculation. And as of late, neither do they see the value in ethics, since most people tend to adopt a "what feels right" philosophy without much rigor... a symptom of the ages.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Meditation transformed my life.

Thanks for sharing. My question would be how has meditation affected your business/entrepreneurship?

I have yet to see someone for whom it really had a positive effect on business. Sure, many people have been helped by it personally, and in terms of happiness. But on business I've seen it either have a negative or a neutral effect.

I'm not a big fan of the guy I'll mention next at all (lol), but I do agree with him on one thing: meditation - "You can go sit on top of a mountain top and meditate all day, but you're not going to change the world on a mountain top." Grant Cardone

I have discovered that business success is about being driven, taking action, staying motivated, and knowing how to connect with people, listen to them, and give them what they want.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I got into meditation when I was well into living the scripted life and depressed as hell. Graduated with no job and no prospects, ton of loans, and feeling like I wasted the last four years of my life. Meditation lifted me out of that hole. If I tried to go into business in that state, I would've failed miserably. I would've ended up even more gun shy about entrepreneurship and even deeper into the script.

Wow it sounds like it really helped you in a tough moment! Happy to hear that man.

Things like procrastination, bad mood, low motivation, fear, lack of desire or desiring the wrong things, being unfocused, etc.

Personally though, I feel if you're procrastinating, and the answer is let me do 15 minutes of meditation, that is just more procrastination. The only thing that isn't procrastination is getting the job done. So I think in such cases, meditation is really a cop-out, a fake solution. That's why I can't see how it can help with these issues people have when building their business.

It reminds me of this funny video of Jocko Willink:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3U_VnOJ_UI


"Turning Pro" as Steven Pressfield would say is about an attitude that you have, a mindset. Meditation itself doesn't help. All that you need to do is understand that unless you "go get some" you're not going to move ahead.

Think about it. Tony Robbins vs Eckhart Tolle for business - who'd you choose?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

There's a sub-thread here, "meditation won't make you rich." I'm not sure about that. Will being in control of your emotions make you rich? Will strengthening your intuitions make you rich? Will rare and extraordinary insights make you rich? Will deep problem solving make you rich? Will poise and composure make you rich?

Have you ever met someone who BECAME rich because he was in control of his emotions? I have met many people who have STAYED rich because they are in control of their emotions, but certainly not BUILD UP that wealth. And there might be an exception, a poker player or something who became rich because of his emotional control - but for every such example you find, I can find 10 others who were the complete opposite - emotionally out of control and rich. Floyd 'Money' Mayweather, Grant Cardone, etc,

Fact is that neither intuition, nor emotional control, not even deep problem solving will make you rich. The only thing that will make you rich is connecting with massive numbers of people whom you can help. Some of them will pay you, and you'll become rich. It's about the art of Winning Friends and Influencing People. Dale Carnegie didn't mention meditation, because it was never needed.

All that is needed is consistent application of a few principles and massive action. Everything else is procrastination when it comes to making money. Sure, I've spent time meditating, I've spent time reading, etc. - none of these put a single cent in my pocket. The only thing that does is the number of people I speak to.

 

[FBA-N-SEO]

Meditation didn't make a huge difference for me.

It did teach me how to breathe correctly through my nose. That made an epic difference.

 

[Guest1413tpa]

Breathing meditation & grounding help me alot. I am just TERRIBLE at practicing them though.
Gotta remember, baby steps everyday.

 

[FBA-N-SEO]

Breathing meditation & grounding help me alot. I am just TERRIBLE at practicing them though.
Gotta remember, baby steps everyday.

Some of those apps help a ton : )

 

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[Mircea Toma]

I tried to make meditation a habit for so many times.

All my 7 attempts were unsuccessful, the longest one being of 3 months of steady meditation.

I am now thinking about picking up this habit again and make it stick.

However, I consider going to gym 6 times a week enough meditation for me. It makes me feel good and also I can calm my mind after a good gym session.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

100% agree with you here. Meditation is not a replacement for building skill in other areas. I think a lot of people do get a little over the top about the benefits (I know I sometimes get carried away!). I'm not saying that meditation will build your business for you and anybody who says that is just plain wrong.

Meditation is just an exercise that strengthens your focus and awareness, which is a health benefit, but not a business benefit. Is meditation necessary for a strong, thriving business? No. Can meditation be used for action faking? Absolutely.

There are other activities which benefits your health but can also be used for action faking too. Going to the gym, reading books, socializing and going to networking events, having a healthy relationship with your family and friends, etc. You get health / mental / emotional benefits from those activities but it doesn't necessarily benefit your business. Your health is always in the background while you are building a business and if you have the time and are not action faking, it can be good for your business to take care of your health. To eat well, do some exercise, read books, and socialize with people that cares about you, (and to meditate!)

Okay, I see what you mean! It seems we are on the same page then

Tony Robbins is a pretty consistent advocate for meditation! And he'll definitely agree with you that meditation isn't a replacement for building business skills.

I think the comparison here strengthens both our points. Meditation is not a replacement for business skills. It's all about how you use it. Tony uses it to destress and increase his focus so he can better serve his audience. Maybe in another universe, Eckhart Tolle would've been a fantastic businessman if he chose to spent his time focused on business. But he used it for his own purpose. In the end, he did end up writing a best selling book and has a major audience.

Hmm I am not so sure about this. What Tony does (if you're referring to his priming ritual) bears a family resemblance to meditation, but I wouldn't call it meditation. Rather, it's a form of hypnosis (or self-hypnosis to be more precise).

At his core, Tony is a practitioner of NLP - neurolinguistic programming, which itself is a form of hypnosis. That is how he operates and does his magic to change people. Take a look at this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eOJaprDCDA


So Tony works by "programming" you for success. Priming you for success, if you want. Of course, priming is setting something up, with a clear purpose in mind.

On the other hand, meditation - and I admit it is quite a vague term, so I prefer to stick to a clear definition such as the one provided by Jon Kabat Zinn here - is all about DEPROGRAMMING you. It's about going back to the source, unlearning all the programming that went into you, and experience life in the moment, anew.

Think how Eckhart would have handled the situation with the man stuttering that Tony handled above. Eckhart would have encouraged relaxation, do not worry about the stutter, it is here, part of who you are in the moment. Feel it, and accept. And then see if you can change it. And if you can't, no problem.

In fact, if you look at the self-help industry today, there are really two paths, which have some resemblances but are profoundly different. The path to "program" yourself for success (Tony, Cardone, etc.) and the path to open yourself up to the possibility of success and wherever life will take you (Tolle, Singer, etc.)

I think it's very important to realise that despite the surface similarities, they are different, have different origins, and differents ways of working.

Business success is all about how you use your life. But your health can play a big part of it!

Sure, I can 100% agree with this too

 

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[Nick perry01]

When I meditated for the 3 or 4 days, I experienced certain emotions(jealousy,anger, and other emotions)not be soo, prominent in my daily life. Also I have had this fear of heights ever since I was 6, and with meditations, my fear was kind of disappeared. I think you should continue with it

 

[LiveEntrepreneur]

I began meditating 2 weeks ago. The reason was because I realized my mind has been drifting with thoughts for a very, long time. I guess most of you know our thoughts are the starting point for how we feel throughout the day and consequently, for how we act.

I noticed huge improvements. I can't describe this improvement exactly, but I feel more "mindful", especially in social interactions. You become aware of your thoughts and stop them before they develop into a chain of other, negative or useless thoughts.

I believe in today's age where we are bombarded with information, meditation is a must. Otherwise we are going to be taken away from this relentless river of information.

Anyways, in terms of "business", I didn't notice much improvement, however, I started being aware of the thoughts that made me wanna quit something, such as feelings of despair and thoughts related to shiny object syndrome ("there must be something better I can do").

What's your experience?

I done it a while back for a short period of time, maybe I didn't do it long enough to get results but from what I did I find it a waste of time. This is was in my action faking/reading books all day long phase. Depends on who you are I think it can be a form of procrastination.

If meditation has nothing to do with your goals in life, don't see what the point of it is. For me, it's not going to help me become more profitable, improve my skills, etc. Not even really improve my quality of life which I guess is the main point of it?

In regards to information overload, I get ya and information overload is a bitch. YouTube is filled with garbage and days of good content is mostly gone in my opinion just filled with people who have the primary intention of selling a course instead of helping you.

One thing I do is try avoid all that shit, and flashy titles/thumbnails, see what the creators intention is. I try look for bland videos are more generic in presentation, I find the most genuine content there.

These days I also try to completely avoid YouTube and particularly anything that has nothing to do with me and my goals.

Once I learned copywriting and what it was, I realized how much shit there was online with all the clickbait.

My final thoughts on the matter of mediation I feel like it's another piece of "noise" in the market if that makes sense. Like people promote cold showers, meditation, positive affirmations in the morning, watching motivational content, etc. To me it's all just extra things that your ramming your brain with with no strong purpose, usually done to make you think that you are being productive but in reality you are not.

Reading self help books is a BIG example of this. This is just my experience, but I imagine some people would draw benefits from some of these ideas.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I don't disagree with "people ned to do stuff." As you can no doubt see from all my other posts. But I credit EQ with a lot of my own success, and while there are other ways to cultivate EQ, meditation ain't that bad. Keep in mind that motivation, the will to do stuff, the grit to keep going... all of that is emotional control. Someone with a frail emotional system will just quit, or retreat to safety. And for certain specializations like speculation, auctions, investing, emotional control is the absolute make or break skill.

Right but as we both know "doing stuff" is a secondary effect of your thinking (some people call this mindset). If you have the right mindset, you go out and you take action. Simple as that. So yes, you do need to get your thinking in the right place. But my entire argument is that meditation does NOT do that. It will not get your thinking in the right place. I am open to be shown otherwise, but I've seen many people go down this path with not so great results, which is why I'm so passionate about this topic

As I argue in this post above, most of what successful people in business do is hypnosis, and not meditation. What do you do when you think about your values? What do you do when you ask yourself what's your why? What do you do when you do future pacing (seeing yourself as succeeding, etc. etc)? What do you do when you work on your beliefs? What do you do when you associate immense PAIN with not taking action, and immense PLEASURE with taking action? That is ALL hypnosis.

If you think you're a loser and you're scared of taking action, no amount of meditation will get your head straight. It may help you disassociate from your belief that you're a loser (so you won't believe that anymore), but for sure it will not get you to replace that with the belief that you're a winner. It's your BELIEFS that drive you to take action. According to meditation, all beliefs are just your mind chattering, you need to stay centered and let go of that. It's bullshit, it's not who you truly are, which is the awareness behind the beliefs - that is your real identity. So if you think you're a loser... let go. If you think you're a winner... let go, it's not who you are.

This is well known by practitioners of meditation:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtmLXiMkL1g

Notice what he is saying... meditation is the opposite of hypnosis. It is the opposite of working on your beliefs. It is the opposite of working on your mindset. Yes, meditation can get you in a relaxed state. And yes, meditation can make you calmer, more peaceful, whatever you want. But it will NOT help you get rich. For that you need to use hypnosis.

Literarily ALL self-development literature is hypnosis. Napoleon Hill - his think and grow rich is all hypnosis - he even calls it auto-suggestion. Tony Robbins - his approach in Awaken the Giant Within is ALL hypnosis - all about breaking through disempowering beliefs and replacing them with empowering ones. Maxwell Maltz in Psychocybernetics - ALL hypnosis. Dale Carnegie - ALL hypnosis.

Something like The Power of Now is not hypnosis. That is meditation. It will help you be happier, more detached, and more centered. But it will NOT help you developer the killer mindset you need to succeed in business.

There are a few people who attribute their success to meditation: Ray Dalio, Michael Singer come to mind. But literarily everyone else is hypnosis-based for their mindset. Even someone like Ray Dalio, I'm not quite so sure if he doesn't actually use transcendental meditation to relax and get into his subconscious, and then once there plant the suggestions because that would be self-hypnosis.

Self-hypnosis is more powerful if you can lull your conscious mind into quietness, so that the suggestions you give yourself, what you visualize, etc. are not resisted and go straight into your subconscious, where they take root and bloom.

To summarize, getting rich is all about mindset. And mindset requires having certain beliefs. Beliefs are built through hypnosis. Meditation is the opposite of hypnosis and unhelpful in creating the beliefs required to succeed in business.

 

[Xeon]

What are some beginner books you guys recommend for meditation?

 

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[Deleted8v369]

I began meditating 2 weeks ago. The reason was because I realized my mind has been drifting with thoughts for a very, long time. I guess most of you know our thoughts are the starting point for how we feel throughout the day and consequently, for how we act.

I noticed huge improvements. I can't describe this improvement exactly, but I feel more "mindful", especially in social interactions. You become aware of your thoughts and stop them before they develop into a chain of other, negative or useless thoughts.

I believe in today's age where we are bombarded with information, meditation is a must. Otherwise we are going to be taken away from this relentless river of information.

Anyways, in terms of "business", I didn't notice much improvement, however, I started being aware of the thoughts that made me wanna quit something, such as feelings of despair and thoughts related to shiny object syndrome ("there must be something better I can do").

What's your experience?

I started two years ago using Headspace. I find that it helps me to focus and not let my thoughts run away with themselves. It's definitely not just some hippy pseudo-science.

 

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[Napoolion]

Yeah, it is great tool to recognize patterns of your own or forced on you bullshit. Also a very good stress relief and can make you more positive, secure and happier person.

 

[Gepi]

Meditation is amazing. It helped me get unstuck in so many ways.

But it is not for everyone. I need it at least 5 times a week otherwise my head will clog up and I get so unfocused. Without it I wouldn't be able to study, to work as productive, and so on. I am less reactive through it, can hold thoughts for longer, can recognize situations in which I would otherwise be anxious easier and be calmer. I have seen that I am everywhere, and nowhere at the same time. There is no meditator, just meditation. This is one of my favourite quotes. You see who you really are, and that there is no real fixed point except your pure conciousness.

But there are some things that just can't be done by looking inside. Sometimes you need some outer force to give you direction, sense of who you are, what you want.
Meditation is like the grease for your everyday life.

At some point you see that this is all you are, and you are all. And then you let that go, as well.

Yeah

Edit: Waking Up App is my favourite by a long stretch, and I tried a lot of meditation apps.

 

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[RealDreams]

If you never take a shower, you will get quite dirty. You will get so dirty, you wont know that you are dirty. You will get use to being dirty. You probably would not be fun to be around. Your very presence would make a dramatic statement.

I consider meditation to be the same as taking a shower. If you never meditated, you may not be pleasant to be around, and you may not know why. A good rule of thumb, is to meditate each day, for at least the same amount of time as you shower, and for the same reasons.

I agree, however, as I previously said, you can reach a point where meditation doesn't help you achieve your goals but quite the opposite.

It removes all your thoughts and desires. The detachment from outside things is a "side-effect".

If your life sucks (objectively), meditation isn't the cure to the problem. In fact, it will only make you complacent and you'll end up feeling okay for your bad lifestyle. That's my conclusion after 3 months of daily meditation. I became less and less "motivated" to achieve great things in life. I noticed this at the gym as well as in every other facet of my life.

I'd say meditation is awesome when your life is okay and you can "afford" it.