Why Amazon Sucks: The Master Thread

[Kid]

View attachment 29663

You mean you sold $2.5m of backpacks?!
j.k.
Thanks, nice to see some real numbers... kind of missed that in recent time.

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

Wait... are you selling something now? Congrats dude! Can we get a thread on what you're up to?

Lol, maybe. If I do plan to, I will make a big post. The reason for hesitation is that many people on this forum say my opinion is worthless and my name has no weight.

 

[broswoodwork]

Lol, maybe. If I do plan to, I will make a big post. The reason for hesitation is that many people on this forum say my opinion is worthless and my name has no weight.

I say what I say without a hint of irony or sarcasm, but if you've defied the conventional and collective wisdom of all these successful people by following your passion and ignoring the market needs, and created lightning in a bottle, I think everyone here will give you a standing ovation based on your gumption alone.

 

[biophase]

Technically, you can convey the weight of the backpack through images. A picture of each backpack on a scale or video on Amazon.

It's a response like this that makes me think that you've never sold on Amazon before. Somebody looking for a backpack is scrolling and only seeing your main photo. That photo will have to convey that your back is lightweight somehow and make the person stop scrolling.

If you are hoping for a click and then going to your listing and then looking at your other images and then watching your video, you are going to lose on Amazon.

You are right about the doubling of costs which is why I don't sell on Amazon. It locks you in on commodity zone where people are only competing on function-based value.

You aren't locked into this just because your price is higher. This only occurs if price is the only play in your playbook. If this is the case, how come some people can sell a backpack for $300 and others for $80?

The fact that you are considering "price" as a value skew tells me this is in commodity zone. Amazon sales channel suppresses the abstract value (brand) which locks you into the commodity zone.

I don't see where I consider price a value skew. In my example the price was in line with other backpacks. I wasn't trying to undercut the current backpacks on the market.

One of my products is literally 5x the retail cost. But why does it sell? Because it has abstract value on my own website. I don't even consider the price of competitors anymore.

I find this hard to believe considering the content of your past posts. You go from traveling around yard sales to selling a 5x high value product in 4 months? If it is true then good for you, but I'd like to see a screenshot.

But for me personally, I do click on the pricest option if I do a search. I click because I am wondering "What makes this backpack double the price? What is so good about it?" Although quality and price don't always go hand in hand, I got burned many times buying the cheaper product.

You may do this, and so may others, but you need to determine if your customers will do this. I learned this lesson about using my personal bias as an indicator of customer tendencies in 2008 on my first ecommerce store.

Gotcha, as @AgainstAllOdds stated the work ratio from doing these smaller businesses isn't worth it. I feared that you these low value adds as your main business...

I don't know how you value if a business is worth it or not, but I just posted a $2.5M screenshot for my so called low value business. And here are two more off Amazon Shopify store screenshots... If only I could make a high value business... I don't only do Amazon you know.

As for the $5k...It would be hard for me to justify dumping $5k at scale for a product that isn't much different than the rest with a single value add, since you need to hit MOQ. If it doesn't sell, you just stuck there with essentially nothing. But if it does, your return can be quick. These businesses are just short term thinking and a small policy change can destroy them. Which is why I don't like that avenue.

What I am doing now is spending $5k on materials that can be used the prototype numerous iterations. The $5k is now many product iterations rather than at scale for a single product.

It sounds like your definition of a value add is to make alot of changes to a product and then launch. In my experience, this is way riskier because you don't know what the market will want. Many people can't handle the massive change. Again, referring back to my simple example. Maybe all the dude wants is a "backpack with a place to hold their airpods case" at a reasonable price. It's that simple. What are the chances that the same dude is going to want "a backpack with a place to hold their airpods case AND a superlight backpack?" Adding more newer innovations actually decreases your pool of buyers.

But again, what do I know...

 

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[healthsupps]

MoveValue: Would you mind sharing a screenshot of some numbers to help prove your point? You can blur out any identifying information but it might help show that your theories are based on numbers

 

[MaxKhalus]

I'm starting to miss the point of this thread

 

[daivey]

I'm starting to miss the point of this thread

a guy called 'more value' is a marketing genius and will convey the weight of a back-pack through the use of a picture of a back-pack on a scale, and will then pick the color of his lambo.

 

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[daivey]

It's a response like this that makes me think that you've never sold on Amazon before. Somebody looking for a backpack is scrolling and only seeing your main photo. That photo will have to convey that your back is lightweight somehow and make the person stop scrolling.

not only has he never sold anything on Amazon, he hasn't sold anything anywhere. That was the legit dumbest thing I've read on these forums since I joined..

"you can convey the weight of a back pack through a picture of a back pack on a scale.."

lol

 

[Kid]

"you can convey the weight of a back pack through a picture of a back pack on a scale.."

Yes but the scale would have to have only two points: "Light!" and "Not Light!"

 

[CFitz]

My own personal experience being a seller on Amazon for 2 years:

I established a direct connection with a real US company (bringing in millions in revenue annually -- so they had a real product and a real market for it), was able to establish an agreement such that I paid a bit below wholesale per unit, and I drop-shipped their products when an Amazon order came through.

Sometimes on an order, I would only make $1 after Amazon's 30% cut and shipping cost. Other times, I would make $45 on a single order due to less competition for that particular product (in that order).

Ultimately, I shuttered the drop-ship venture due to high competition in a small niche/market and the fact that I had other things (i.e., ventures) going on. If I wasn't vested in other ventures, I may have stuck around and made it work long-term.

Long story short: it is certainly possible to still make $ on Amazon. You must hit a niche that has not yet been properly filled, which is difficult in this time and age, but not impossible. Next, you must establish a mutually beneficial agreement with every company you wish to drop-ship from, or establish a great relationship with vendors whose products you are buying in bulk at wholesale. Finally, set up your products on the Amazon marketplace, watch other sellers start to copy your listings, and wait for orders.

 

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[Jackson J]

Product is king. I made a successful product, tested it into the real world. It costs me 60c, I listed it for $14.99. I listed it, never read one amazon guide, did not use any 'tactics'. Nothing . This month it will do 8k in revenue, (6k profit). All automated income, have friends I pay to make the product and ship in bulk to Amazon.

 

[Walter Hay]

Product is king. I made a successful product, tested it into the real world. It costs me 60c, I listed it for $14.99. I listed it, never read one amazon guide, did not use any 'tactics'. Nothing . This month it will do 8k in revenue, (6k profit). All automated income, have friends I pay to make the product and ship in bulk to Amazon.

This thread is filled with doom and gloom, so it is good to see this and a few other posts that show that it really is possible to do well on Amazon.

Much of the critical and negative stuff that has been posted only serves to show that if you take the wrong approach you won't succeed.

That principle applies in any form of business, but specially in relation to eCommerce.

If I told you about a genuine Amazon expert who has been selling on Amazon for 20 years, teaching others for 2O years, and publishes online over 6,000 testimonials from his students about their huge successes, would all the naysayers still post negative messages?

Before criticizing, and giving up because many sheep have failed by blindly following the seriously wrong advice from high cost gurus, it would pay to learn the facts.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

The stats on your post are of what average people (wantraprenuers) most likely doing retail arbitrage, selling white label items, or doing what ever money making product came across in an email from jundglescout took.

Correct. The great majority of negative posts in this thread are aimed at either:
1. Those who like sheep follow the crowd and offer products that can easily be sourced by every man and his dog.
2. Those who fail to understand the value in the word unique.

In both cases they are doomed to failure, or at best mediocrity.

The sheep can't think for themselves. They are gullible enough to believe that just because others are selling a product, they can do likewise.

@Vigilante posted in 2015 that eCommerce success is more likely if the eCommerce entrepreneur offers for sale a product that has never been imported into the USA. (Applies to whichever country where you are selling.) The case of the newbie to whom he was replying is a classic example of doing everything wrong. He even managed to have his eBay listing barred.

The bottom line is in order to succeed in the game the OP is trying to succeed in, you have to find a product that has never been imported into the United States and import it. That is the path of least resistance, and the best way to create value where none exists.

Vigilante was in effect talking about finding unique products to import and sell. A couple of years later I posted on this subject, and about weak efforts to sell products on Amazon.

Unique products can still be found, but few are willing to make the extra effort required, although that effort can be considerably less than re-engineering existing products, or designing something totally new. I applaud those who do both, but finding unique products should not be ignored as an option.

As for slapping on a $5 Fiverr logo, that also is part of many e-commerce courses and does little to disguise the sameness that prevails among those who lack real marketing ability. They call it Private Labeling, but it's a poor way to differentiate. Helping overcome this problem was behind my writing of my second book about creating and sourcing labels and packaging that can help sell the product.

Finally, anyone relying only on Amazon has all their eggs in one basket, and that basket is being shaken.

Walter

Walter

 

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[Andy Bell]

I think there is a huge distinction here for amazon sellers. If your using it to sell your own trademarked unique product with a following its huge. If your just trying to private label, expect some hardships, even if your successful expect a Chinese vendor to copy and losslead you into oblivion.

My Personal experience getting a product going in the pets niche (note product was not unique but unique in the sense that there was nothing like it on amazon)...I used the junglescout course and extension to find a product that was 9/10 on the viable product metrics it had everything according to them, I invested 10k in a fully vetted manufacturer in China. Had It customized made all the product labelling did all the upc codes everything above board had 50 reviews. Product was starting to break even on what I had invested within 3 months.

Month 3 BOOM. 3 copycats pop up, each my exact product with different package and color. Coincidentally right at that time i get 3 negative reviews that make no sense in terrible english. Then they start flooding the market with discounts and their rank goes above mine, i can no longer compete with their discounts so i lower my price to breakeven, they wont let up, they now outrank me and my sales are a fifth of what they were before.

Could things get worse? Yes amazon sends me a super vague email says we have chosen to remove your account due to reasons. Yes they say absolutely nothing and I have followed all terms, I hire a lawyer that specializes in getting banned users unbanned...he does his job im back 1 month later but now because of amazons algo of ranking you based on sales i have to start from square 1 and now have 3 copycats. I try to rank and do promotions slowly getting back into the top 10, long term storage costs are now crushing me and I need to move product fast (they charge insane amounts for storage over x months).

I decide I need to get out of this crappy stressful atmosphere I put up my fba for sale on a business sales site. I attract multiple buyers, one buys the business...in escrow...we begin transferring and changing the bank details...amazon immediately bans me again...buyer obviously drops out. I bow out and donate all my remaining product(pet good) to local humane shelter.

Again if you already have your product and its unique and trademarked amazon is a great medium to sell. If your just trying to private label and follow a course to make a quick buck they promise be prepared to go to war for a dollar.

 

[OnTheWrox]

Great post! Add to that they can terminate your account anytime they want, and you're screwed!

Yep! And they take your product go to your supplier and under cut you selling the same product. Slick fishes! haha

 

[Walter Hay]

My Personal experience getting a product going in the pets niche (note product was not unique but unique in the sense that there was nothing like it on amazon)...I used the junglescout course and extension to find a product that was 9/10 on the viable product metrics it had everything according to them, I invested 10k in a fully vetted manufacturer in China. Had It customized made all the product labelling did all the upc codes everything above board had 50 reviews. Product was starting to break even on what I had invested within 3 months.

I'm sorry to say that your venture was doomed from the moment you chose to use Junglescout. To find something unique it must not simply be without any existing listings on Amazon, or anywhere for that matter.

It has to be something that has real value to prospective users, and it must be very difficult to locate.

Don't think that you will find such a product easily on Alibaba or other Chinese sites. When visiting China on many occasions I went off the beaten track. I visited remote village markets in the hills, and often saw products that were not advertised in Chinese trade magazines, or B2B sites, being intended for the Chinese market, but they were not unique.

They were easy to copy and you can be sure that If I placed an order for 50 or 100 pcs, they would soon appear in those places mentioned above. Any hint of "unique" would be gone.

One of the reasons why I did so much research and finished up publishing a huge list of genuine country-specific B2B sites was to help my readers escape from the grip of the vast Chinese manufacturing industry.

Searching some of those sites, even with the instructions I give, can be exhausting. For this reason alone you will find that very few of my readers will take up the work of finding a unique product, because It's too damned hard!!!!

So, they continue to take the easy way with Alibaba and the like, and then blame Amazon because they don't succeed.

HINT: You can use some of the sites I listed to simply browse for ideas, but a word of warning.... You will be entering uncharted waters.

If you find that unique product, market validation is going to require more diligence and effort. Nobody else will have done it for you to copy.

Another word of warning.... Just because a product that you have never seen before looks exciting, it might just be your taste and it won't suit your target market.

Final word of warning on this subject.... You might be unlucky enough to discover that someone else found your unique product two weeks before you found it.

A prerequisite before searching for any product , whether unique or not, is to know your market demographic. Marketing "experts" define that as identifying groups of people in a population by their characteristics such as: age, race, religion, gender, family size, ethnicity, income, and education.

You will rarely find them including in their list of characteristics any reference to emotional factors. If you really want to know your target demographic you should try to put yourself in their shoes.

After all, you should be selling the sizzle, not the steak. What will make your potential customers hear and smell the sizzle that makes them buy the steak?

Walter

 

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[bbmhmmad]

most sellers on Amazon are money-chasing not providing actual value. they will find a top seller in a category and attempt to sell close to if not the exact same product hoping to eat up a portion of market share from competitors. once you have enough of these piranhas, the only value skew anyone can think of altering is price. if instead, sellers focused on actually creating new products that substantially altered value skews, they would be a lot better off. but it has nothing really to do with the platform. if you have a great product, youd be foolish not to have it listed on Amazon. but most people dont have great products...

 

[Amazon22]

Ok, so we were outliers..Just sold our 1st brand we built for millions.

The AUD conversion nearly doubled it

there is definitely lots of people making money on amazon

 

[Anda el Diablo]

It took me forever, but I just finished reading this thread. There was a lot to take in and I feel like I learned a lot, but I still have a million questions. I think the one on everyone’s mind who is new to E-commerce is: If Amazon sucks so bad, what is the better alternative?

I’m ready to invest in my future, e-commerce seems like the route that will get me where I want to be, but even after reading the negativity (and a lot of positivity) surrounding selling in Amazon, it seems to me to still be the best place to launch a new product. What would be a better alternative, if any?

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

It took me forever, but I just finished reading this thread. There was a lot to take in and I feel like I learned a lot, but I still have a million questions. I think the one on everyone’s mind who is new to E-commerce is: If Amazon sucks so bad, what is the better alternative?

I’m ready to invest in my future, e-commerce seems like the route that will get me where I want to be, but even after reading the negativity (and a lot of positivity) surrounding selling in Amazon, it seems to me to still be the best place to launch a new product. What would be a better alternative, if any?

Other sales platforms or your own website pretty much.

I guess most people's method is not to actually be profiting a million bucks through the business, but making a business to sell for a million bucks.

A) Building to sell, is kinda what I hate, but what a lot of people do here. The reason I hate the idea of "building to sell" is that people take shortcuts and a lot of them. Aka, building a business fast on terrible foundation selling it to the naive. They run off with the money and the business buyer is essentially left with a business that will collapse shortly unless they invest significantly more to correct all the shortcuts the business builder did. Feels kinda scammy because no one with intuition would buy these businesses.

B) Unlike many others, I am building a business for the long term to profit a million or more year. Strong, study foundation. The con though is high investment cost and longer to profit, but well worth it.

Volume vs. Magnitude
Plan A businesses also tend to focus on low value, high volume. All they care about is high revenue numbers to make the business buyer's eyes roll backwards in awe. The issue is that low value products are hard to you to stand out in the sea of products.

Most people won't do plan B because they are money-chasers and don't actually care about what they are doing and the incapability of handling delayed gratification for so long.

Got lost on a tangent a bit...

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

It took me forever, but I just finished reading this thread. There was a lot to take in and I feel like I learned a lot, but I still have a million questions. I think the one on everyone’s mind who is new to E-commerce is: If Amazon sucks so bad, what is the better alternative?

I’m ready to invest in my future, e-commerce seems like the route that will get me where I want to be, but even after reading the negativity (and a lot of positivity) surrounding selling in Amazon, it seems to me to still be the best place to launch a new product. What would be a better alternative, if any?

Amazon's not bad. Make the listings. But also don't consider that your whole strategy. Other avenues that give you more control:

SEO > Own Site
Google PPC > Own Site
Facebook Ads > Own Site
Influencer Marketing > Own Site
SMM > Own Site
Direct Mail > Own Site
Email > Own Site
Cold Calling > Own Site
Tradeshow > Own Site

 

[YoungPadawan]

Amazon's not bad. Make the listings. But also don't consider that your whole strategy. Other avenues that give you more control:

SEO > Own Site
Google PPC > Own Site
Facebook Ads > Own Site
Influencer Marketing > Own Site
SMM > Own Site
Direct Mail > Own Site
Email > Own Site
Cold Calling > Own Site
Tradeshow > Own Site

I would like to add: don't disregard the power of direct mail for selling your ecommerce products. You can mail letters/promotions stupidly cheap and direct mail has significantly better conversion rates than online media. Plus - no Google or Facebook blocking your ads.

 

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[Anda el Diablo]

Amazon's not bad. Make the listings. But also don't consider that your whole strategy. Other avenues that give you more control:

SEO > Own Site
Google PPC > Own Site
Facebook Ads > Own Site
Influencer Marketing > Own Site
SMM > Own Site
Direct Mail > Own Site
Email > Own Site
Cold Calling > Own Site
Tradeshow > Own Site

Thank you for that info. I’ve definitely noticed that it’s important to not have that be your only avenue. Like others have stated, they can close down your account on Amazon and you’re left with nothing. On the other hand, it’s also the biggest platform out there for an E-commerce business. I was breaking it down this weekend and determined, you would only need to sell 10 items a day at a $8 profit per unit to make $2,400 a month. That’s not a ton of money, but if you can do the same with another product, now you’re making $4,800 a month, which I could live off of. After reading this thread, it seems like there is a lot of work to put in for those 10 products a day. Product research seems to be one of the most important parts. My train of thought at first was “I’ll make a spatula and make thousands a month off of it,” (not literally a spatula, but you get it). It seems like you need something a little more niche or innovative or you’re going to have a constant uphill battle competing with others. Right now that is my main focus, what can I provide that is going to be useful/helpful that isn’t already being sold by a ton of other people? While looking into that I need to also research SEO and those kinds of things. This is going to take a lot of commitment. I was hoping to be up and running something in around 3 months time, but I’m finding it may take a while longer. The funding is pretty close to there, now it’s the implementation I need to grind on.

 

[Walter Hay]

It seems like you need something a little more niche or innovative or you’re going to have a constant uphill battle competing with others. Right now that is my main focus, what can I provide that is going to be useful/helpful that isn’t already being sold by a ton of other people?

If you can find a worthwhile product that has never previously been imported and sold in the US, you will for a while at least have no competition. To find something unique, I recommend looking at countries other than China for ideas.

If you do start selling such a product, take care to avoid allowing Amazon to know its origin.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

Amazon's not bad. Make the listings. But also don't consider that your whole strategy. Other avenues that give you more control:

That's very good advice.

Your own site can work in conjunction with your Amazon account if you label your products with your URL. Depending on the product, your URL can be molded into it, or engraved into it.

Whichever way you do it, you have a legitimate way to avoid breaching Amazon's TOS. Many people will look at your site out of curiosity, so make sure they have a good reason to stay, provide their email address, or even buy.

If your site is offering a low cost item related in some way to your product listed on Amazon, and they buy because they like it or because it is a bargain, either way you will be able to build an email list.

If you want to build a list, which is a great asset, it could be worth selling at a break even price, or maybe even a small loss.

Walter

 

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[Walter Hay]

I would like to add: don't disregard the power of direct mail for selling your ecommerce products. You can mail letters/promotions stupidly cheap and direct mail has significantly better conversion rates than online media. Plus - no Google or Facebook blocking your ads.

It's good to see that someone understands that direct mail is still a viable advertising medium.

Having enjoyed a very high conversion rate with direct mail I can offer a couple of suggestions:
1. The key to a good response rate in direct mailing is the headline. It must not only grab attention, it must make the reader want to read on to the next line in case they are missing out on something.
2. A P.S. can be as valuable as the headline, but it should be either handwritten ( not easy) or printed but looking as though it is handwritten. A script font is not the best idea. Decent handwriting copied and printed would work better. It can be the message I refer to in 3 below.
3. An insert will encourage opening. That has made millions for Readers Digest. It can be a small token made of stamped thin metal, with a number on it. The same number is on every token. The message is: "Quote the number on the token for your X% discount."

Walter

 

[OnePercentBetter]

I wonder if this is the same story for Amazon Kindle Publishers?

 

[Anda el Diablo]

If you can find a worthwhile product that has never previously been imported and sold in the US, you will for a while at least have no competition. To find something unique, I recommend looking at countries other than China for ideas.

If you do start selling such a product, take care to avoid allowing Amazon to know its origin.

Walter

That is something I have been considering. I’ve spent a few years traveling through Latin America and was trying to think of some unique products. Unfortunately, a lot of the products I can think of that I particularly like are food or clothing related, which are probably two horrible markets to get involved in. I know of a place to get very cheap, great quality clothes in Colombia, but I would be willing to bet that clothing is probably one of the hardest markets to get into, with so many giants to compete with. The clothes aren’t anything super unique, though I do notice this style of pants are pretty tough to come by in the US, they are just very well priced for the quality and I have connections out there to help me with the logistics. I’m going to have to brainstorm a little more to see what I can come up with, I know there is something that I’m not thinking of.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I ordered some items the other day from AMZ and today they came in all separate boxes, 5 in total, with different labels and I'm sure, different shipping costs. The thing is, the entire order could have fit into a box about twice the size of a shoebox ...

I'm not familiar with logistics, but is there any reason for this? It looks like everything came from the same warehouse. So instead of one box and one shipping cost, they incurred five -- with five packaging costs. Makes zero sense.

 

[AFMKelvin]

I ordered some items the other day from AMZ and today they came in all separate boxes, 5 in total, with different labels and I'm sure, different shipping costs. The thing is, the entire order could have fit into a box about twice the size of a shoebox ...

I'm not familiar with logistics, but is there any reason for this? It looks like everything came from the same warehouse. So instead of one box and one shipping cost, they incurred five -- with five packaging costs. Makes zero sense.

Automated Shipping. The algorithm decides what goes in each box. In this case you probably order something fragile and the bot thought it needed separate boxes to account for packing material.

Here's another example.

View: https://youtu.be/pp37y4GqBZg