Why All The Secrecy? Here's Why...

[Yasai]

Uh sure.
At the moment, I'm pretty much a wantrepreneur hehe. I'm currently creating a product, just to learn the ropes and see how it all works.
If I ever become really successful, I'll probably share my results and how I achieved them with others. The "Event" AND the "Process".

I'd also like to mention that I'm EXTREMELY curious, trying to learn from the "big guys" in certain fields (successful entrepreneurs/marketers/etc.) especially the way they think about money and how to make it.

MJ has been a huge inspiration in that regard. Thanks for that by the way. I hope he will read this someday. I'm extremely grateful I found TMF and TFF.

 

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[5holiday]

Dang, and I just shared my URL of a new start... haha.

 

[edward222]

Business is like accepting the risk and beat all the competitors.
People may don't have any idea about your product/services, but if you teach them how to use the product/service
your product will BOOM!..

Just like the Nike shoes, the first place they want to sell their shoes is in Africa, when they got there, every man in Africa doesn't have shoes nor slippers. So what they did is that they teach them how to use the shoes, and now, Nike is a giant company.

 

[mws87]

What about a friend who "wants in" on everything? I don't by any means have a business, not even a niche (yet). I've had some ideas here and there which I've sense dismissed (lack of huge value). A buddy of mine (we'll call him friend #1) is pretty business oriented. Works the same slowlane sales job as me, has some good ideas but knows a lot about back end. Every time I mention the idea of doing something, he kind of invites himself into it. Another friend I work with (#2) is now beginning to do the same (I've actually got him onto TMF ).

So finally, friend #3. Very, VERY close friend of mine, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a product of my imagination for having a lack of siblings growing up. He has great ideas, you get me and him together and ideas come about. He's the inventor type. He has some terrific ideas we were talking about, told him said ideas not only would provide great value, but would have several options for recurring income. He, for some reason, isn't a big action taker, though. So, being a friend, I refuse to "run with" his idea or try to flip it. Anyhow, I just mentioned something to #1, didn't tell him the idea, just mentioned my buddy has a great idea but is refusing to market it. #1 says "well, we can always put a spin on it and cut him some money". I was immediately turned off and never talked to #1 about it again.

I've since stopped talking about ANY ideas, plans, etc to #1 and #2. Luckily, no specifics were made about #3's ideas, I just said in fact that he has "an idea". Luckily, #1 and #2 aren't big action takers and aren't of the right mindset, luckily I learned early to not give details to ANYONE. I don't even like talking to my significant other about anything related to business (she finds everything unrealistic).

What would you consider the one who always wants in or tries to include themselves in everything? Little brother syndrome?

 

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[tafy]

I've since stopped talking about ANY ideas, plans, etc to #1 and #2. Luckily, no specifics were made about #3's ideas

You are thinking of ideas as if they are gold and actually worth something, ideas are worthless. You mention your friend had some great ideas but wont take action, but you also dont want to run with great ideas because your friend came up with it? Sad man, just sad.

I got an idea for you totally free, pm me and I will give you few of them. Add me on skype and any great idea I get ill pass it onto you.

 

[Yasai]

The point I was trying to make was learning to cut off vocalizing anything, even to friends. Had it been something that had value and I was ready to take action on but blabbed to someone about it who took action before me, I would have been out.

If it's really something that other people could massively benefit from, why would you try to keep it to yourself? Just to extract some petty coin from it?

Could it be that you dislike your friend's eagerness to "grab an idea and turn it into a reality" because you see your own greed in him/his behaviour?
You interpret his motivation to "be in" on something as clinginess, rather than as a wish to create something that you and your friends seem to be too hesitant to create.

If you think an idea is good and that people (or in some cases: animals, the environment, etc.) could benefit from it, it should be more important to you to turn it into a reality ASAP. And if you can find the right "teamplayers" who are WILLING to take action, why hesitate? Why discard them?

Even IF they take the idea and keep ALL the profits, there will be new ideas you can start to make "real". Be happy that this particular mind-child gets to "grow up" and be helpful to people in the real world instead of withering away in a "if only" or "what if" hypothetical scenario inside your brain.

Money won't run away. In fact, money gets PRINTED every day. There's enough to go around. But it's unlikely you'll ever see any remarkable amounts of it if you don't build a vessel or a magnet for it. A service, a product, something of value etc.

It's not so much about "getting money". It's more about "giving value and the money will follow" isn't it?

 

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[focusedlife]

So I was reading a great entrepreneur thread over at Reddit that @JasonR provided and the topic got downvoted pretty bad because he wasn't very forthcoming with his website address and his product. Of course, the "Redditors" called it a calamity, and even some sorted to say he was in some type of MLM.

Years ago when I owned my business, I used to frequent another forum. Back then, the business was routinely generating 6-figures monthly in profit. (PROFIT, not revenue). As I participated in the forum more and more, the more and more I was queried for my website's address.

What is it?
What do you do?
Please tell me!
Can you link to your site?​

I refused each and every time and here's why:

As you know, any executed idea thrown out on the internet is ripe to be taken, copied, or borrowed. It's not unusual. The spirit of entrepreneurship is to take an idea, and make it better. Improve it. Efficiency. Convenience. Whatever that is.

However, what usually IS NOT KNOWN, is how much $$$$ that idea is making. If someone discloses "I'm making $200k/mo doing this and here's the website!" - then immediately that idea has placed a target on it's back.

The result is new competitors that enter the space, most of which, cannot execute on the idea.

So what's the problem with that? Competition is good, right?

While these competitors aren't a threat in the long term, they threaten the short term in the form of:

1. Increased PPC / ad costs (they flood the same ad space you're in, driving costs up.)
2. Increased customer service (Hey, did you see xxxxyyyy.com? Is that you guys?)
3. Business model damage (After they poorly execute the same business model you're doing, it can impact your business model -- "Eh, we tried that shit, it don't work.")

IMO, the danger isn't disclosing the idea, but disclosing how much $ the idea is generating. This gives wantrepreneurs an insight into what's possible WITHOUT exposing them to the process of making it happen. In other words, they see "EVENTS"! (Wow, that site is making how much??)

Of course, the above isn't true for products/services that have strong entry barriers, or for concepts/ideas that aren't easily replicable -- those barriers usually are enough to keep the idea-hoppers away.

The point of this post is to explain WHY some people are a little weary about disclosing specifics about their company, their website, and their profits.

In the end, I always thought publicly disclosing my business and attaching profit figures to it was like letting a bunch of mosquitoes into my bedroom -- yea, they won't kill me, but they will bite me here and there, and ultimately, annoy the f*ck out of me.

So I was reading a great entrepreneur thread over at Reddit that @JasonR provided and the topic got downvoted pretty bad because he wasn't very forthcoming with his website address and his product. Of course, the "Redditors" called it a calamity, and even some sorted to say he was in some type of MLM.

Years ago when I owned my business, I used to frequent another forum. Back then, the business was routinely generating 6-figures monthly in profit. (PROFIT, not revenue). As I participated in the forum more and more, the more and more I was queried for my website's address.

What is it?
What do you do?
Please tell me!
Can you link to your site?​

I refused each and every time and here's why:

As you know, any executed idea thrown out on the internet is ripe to be taken, copied, or borrowed. It's not unusual. The spirit of entrepreneurship is to take an idea, and make it better. Improve it. Efficiency. Convenience. Whatever that is.

However, what usually IS NOT KNOWN, is how much $$$$ that idea is making. If someone discloses "I'm making $200k/mo doing this and here's the website!" - then immediately that idea has placed a target on it's back.

The result is new competitors that enter the space, most of which, cannot execute on the idea.

So what's the problem with that? Competition is good, right?

While these competitors aren't a threat in the long term, they threaten the short term in the form of:

1. Increased PPC / ad costs (they flood the same ad space you're in, driving costs up.)
2. Increased customer service (Hey, did you see xxxxyyyy.com? Is that you guys?)
3. Business model damage (After they poorly execute the same business model you're doing, it can impact your business model -- "Eh, we tried that shit, it don't work.")

IMO, the danger isn't disclosing the idea, but disclosing how much $ the idea is generating. This gives wantrepreneurs an insight into what's possible WITHOUT exposing them to the process of making it happen. In other words, they see "EVENTS"! (Wow, that site is making how much??)

Of course, the above isn't true for products/services that have strong entry barriers, or for concepts/ideas that aren't easily replicable -- those barriers usually are enough to keep the idea-hoppers away.

The point of this post is to explain WHY some people are a little weary about disclosing specifics about their company, their website, and their profits.

In the end, I always thought publicly disclosing my business and attaching profit figures to it was like letting a bunch of mosquitoes into my bedroom -- yea, they won't kill me, but they will bite me here and there, and ultimately, annoy the f*ck out of me.

@MJ DeMarco, It makes total sense, which is probably one of the weirdest things most people on the valley side of the summit don't yet understand.

Often, most of those that coattail on others success like to boast big numbers because, after all, that's supposed to impress.

I knew a few "gurus" and personal mentors that always wrestled with this stuff, too because, especially in the high ticket guru space, a lot of them are afraid of training their competition.

And, rightly so.

Again, makes total sense as, generally speaking, the pupil, usually, still lacks some degree of their own creativity or, instead, perhaps, rely on the examples they've anchored themselves to, which is usually whatever the hell it is the guru is doing.

They figure the guru passed on the knowledge so, therefore, they, somehow, can train others in that space as well.

That's probably why I have never (until your book, honestly) been more interested in scaling big and instead did the whole freelancer for hire thing, but, now, I want more freedom so...

How to do that....

Now, what I look for when working with others is evidence of success (without needing specifics), but I've also got my antennae tuned to pick up those other CENTS factors you've got me all fired up about.

Thank you.

 

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[Roberto Zanon]

Very well said, especially liked the mosquito analogy

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

Worth a bump since no one's commented or liked for a couple of years.

 

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[NoLackey]

Right, and I did not post my site initially, but someone got smart and decided to post it on the thread, but it got buried.

I also had someone straight rip my landing page. albeit in another niche. Lesson learned the hard way.

All the drama aside, thanks for posting the Reddit thread. I had to go find it and it was one of the most motivating and insightful things I've read in a while. I tend to get paralyzed by over analyzing everything, and if what you said in the thread works...I'm on it.

 

[limitup]

I'm not a reddit'r and was interested in checking out the thread in question. I tried searching for an AMA by jasonr686 but can't find it. Can anyone share a link or PM it to me or something? I must be an idiot but I can't seem to find it.

 

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[GravyBoat]

As ENAEKA said, I have a progress thread on the INSIDERS part of this forum. I was planning on disclosing my idea, maybe not down to the last details, but still the idea/niche as a whole. Reading this thread and others now make me not want to.

How far would you guys go when explaining your business on this forum? I know the INSIDERS part protects from Google indexing, as well as makes sure every member reading it has at least payed to be there, so I believe that's a good filter.

Should I refrain from disclosing the idea? How far along the path would you tell others?

 

[jpa0827]

I'm not a reddit'r and was interested in checking out the thread in question. I tried searching for an AMA by jasonr686 but can't find it. Can anyone share a link or PM it to me or something? I must be an idiot but I can't seem to find it.

This was an awesome read...enjoy. Thanks JasonR! The key take away for me that you learned from Zen. Big Market, Pick a product and tweak it a bit, test if it sells, then optimize and scale. I think that was pretty much it. I'm going to try this for sure.

 

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[PHD]

I haven't had time to read the reddit but I'm glad I clicked on it, as I have always over analysed the 'product' thinking it has to be something awesome and new.

Just yesterday I was walking my dog and a product idea hit me! It is a simple twist on a very common product, easy to get a prototype made, cheap to manafacture and distribute and it is a problem I have heard a few people mention they have.

My mission now is to validate this idea and I may see you in the pet industry.

 

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[Nebojsa]

Copycats are everywhere.

And some have actually developed their business models as being copycats.
For example, do a search for Groupon clone, Pinterest clone, Kickstarster clone... you get the image.

Or recently while I was checking flippa I run on this listing:
https://flippa.com/3020695-site-with-20-220-uniques-mo-making-425-mo
- A site that is making 400$/month and is not even ranking in google
- Has a cheesy stock photos
- Bought wordpress theme, domain registration nov 2013
- Check the internal bidding war (funny )

And on top of that, they try to scam you
If You Want To Verify My earning Then Give me Your AdSense code. I will Put Your Code in My website.

P.S. I like checking Flippa for competitors and getting an overview what others do.

 

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[Iwokeup]

I've done a lot of thinking about @JasonR 's situation over the past 24hrs and I think the quote above is basically 100% the reason why businesses get ripped off on forums like this. I'll never get it but I do know there are a ton of wantrepreneurs even on the inside, which plain and simple, it sucks!

This is by far my favorite business forum, mainly basically I deeply believe the Fastlane philosophy and I like MJ, Bio, Vig, Allen, Jason, Eskil, Kak, ICK, Jack, Vick, and a few other people here who are kicking a$$ and telling their stories. Even though I go through phases of being a frequent member on the forum, I have learned and implemented so much from all of them. I hope, one day, to be able to provide value to others like they have to me without even knowing it.

So I was thinking ...

I would HAPPILY pay $30 a month more to have access to these guys (while hopefully providing my own value) if there was some type of "super inside" part of the forum where only people generating $10k/month in revenue (or some figure) via a business could join.

Much like Andrew does at ecommercefuel:

http://www.ecommercefuel.com/ecommerce-forum/

Store owners must be generating at least $5,000/month in revenue. It’s not an enormous requirement, but is enough to ensure that participants are making a serious effort at running their own stores and have some real-world experience to share.

I'm not a member of that forum because I chose this one, but hear good things, he specifically caters to eCommerce though. I might try it out sometime but now right now, I barely have the time for this one.

I truly hope that this happening to Jason AGAIN (first Bio) does not dilute the Fastlane forum (edit: it already has with Jason leaving!). I can guarantee other members that at least $10k-$20k/month (of the $70-$120k/month) of revenue we generate every month is a direct result of things we have implemented from tips and topics discussed on this forum. These idiots that pull shit like this DO NOT understand how selfish and what shitty people they truly are.

I am not opposed to something like this. I know that I haven't contributed much yet overall, but I HAVE learned a ton from everyone, including @JasonR. His situation sucks and so did Biophase's situation previously. I dunno, if you paid more then perhaps there could be an additional level of social proof required? I'm game.

I don't want Jason to stop contributing but I understand why he will.

 

[MattCour]

It's a shame but I had a bad feeling about the level of detail shared in those podcasts.

 

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[Gale4rc]

Thanks MJ - Going to give a little less information on my thread now. Still want to provide value but, no point in giving exact stats on conversions and stuff.

 

[MitchC]

Can we have a forum for people with their own ideas who are well and truly on the road executing them and won't be interested in others ideas but want to share theirs with people who won't steal them so they can get proper specific help without the risk.

Anyone else here saying voting etc, you have nothing to lose to an INSIDERS group like that, just contribute on the outside.

Maybe you submit your idea, progress, methods etc everything, and if it's enough you are accepted, that way everyone in the forum is 100% doing something and it's all there for you all. Unfortunately it's still probably not enough protection, but I would love a safe place to share mine and get advice

 

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[KLaw]

If I ever make a fortune, I probably wouldn't mind also sharing how much it is. But then again, I'm just starting out, so maybe my perspective will change, who knows.
So far, I believe that money isn't exactly scarce, once you know how to make it. Right?

While I agree with MJ on all of the points, I would like to put a spin on the whole mosquito-analogy:
If you absolutely dominate your field and provide the best damn service, you will never have to worry about idea thieves etc.
Comes down to how much confidence you have in yourself and your product or service i guess.
It's as if competitors are barely even a blip on your radar, if you know they won't be any threat to you, no matter how hard they try.

I can see how, especially in the starting phase, you're gonna want to reduce any kind of "nuisance" or "discomfort" as much as you can.
It's a time of instability and thus a breeding ground for all kinds of insecurities (with varying degrees of gravity/intensity).

On the other hand, I think there would be much less stress and anxiety if you could "live like you are already dominating your field".
I think others have actually mentioned stuff like this already (zen*******, for example).

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful with regards to creating "peace of mind".

How are u just starting out? "But then again, I'm just starting out". Specifics please

 

[Oswalito]

Great thread. I wish I could share with you guys what my project is all about but it's so early in its infancy. I feel like I can't share with anybody online as much as I'd love to because I'm very passionate about it.

Although I took an existing service people already widely know about and made improvements, I feel like my execution is what is going to set my service apart from the rest and possibly change an industry for the better.

Maybe the day I can afford to subscribe to the INSIDERS section lol.

 

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[mws87]

You are thinking of ideas as if they are gold and actually worth something, ideas are worthless. You mention your friend had some great ideas but wont take action, but you also dont want to run with great ideas because your friend came up with it? Sad man, just sad.

I got an idea for you totally free, pm me and I will give you few of them. Add me on skype and any great idea I get ill pass it onto you.

As I said, I've dismissed the ideas. I'm not making the ideas out to be some holy grail, I was talking more about the "cling" factor I've been getting, the others inviting themselves into an idea that, because they weren't gold, irked me a bit. But, I do understand where you're coming from.

Sure, ideas are worthless until action is implemented. The point I was trying to make was learning to cut off vocalizing anything, even to friends. Had it been something that had value and I was ready to take action on but blabbed to someone about it who took action before me, I would have been out.

 

[21elnegocio]

Absolutely. My first highly successful online business was something I decided to pursue because I saw a for sale listing on bizbuysell. When I saw the website for sale, with all their financial details listed, I couldn't believe that such a simple business/site could make so much money.

Long story short I started a competing site, made my own improvements, made a small fortune, and literally cut their business in half over the next few years.

Had they simply not publically listed their revenue/net figures in their for sale listing, I would have never even noticed their little business.

Are you still selling products online ? just curious

 

[P789]

SO, this would explain this statement

https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/kex272/_/gg55j7a View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/kex272/why_i_hate_bo_sanchez/gg55j7a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

[Johnny boy]

That's fine to be quiet if you're succeeding.

The real joke is when some clowns ask for ADVICE on here and won't tell you anything else about their situation.

 

[Subsonic]

So I was reading a great entrepreneur thread over at Reddit that @JasonR provided and the topic got downvoted pretty bad because he wasn't very forthcoming with his website address and his product. Of course, the "Redditors" called it a calamity, and even some started to say he was in some type of MLM.

Years ago when I owned my business, I used to frequent another forum. Back then, the business was routinely generating 6-figures monthly in profit. (PROFIT, not revenue). As I participated in the forum more and more, the more and more I was queried for my website's address.

What is it?​

What do you do?​

Please tell me!​

Can you link to your site?​

I refused each and every time and here's why:

As you know, any executed idea thrown out on the internet is ripe to be taken, copied, or borrowed. It's not unusual. The spirit of entrepreneurship is to take an idea, and make it better. Improve it. Efficiency. Convenience. Whatever that is.

However, what usually IS NOT KNOWN, is how much $$$$ that idea is making. If someone discloses "I'm making $200k/mo doing this and here's the website!" - then immediately that idea has placed a target on it's back.

The result is new competitors that enter the space, most of which, cannot execute on the idea.

So what's the problem with that? Competition is good, right?

While these competitors aren't a threat in the long term, they threaten the short term in the form of:

1. Increased PPC / ad costs (they flood the same ad space you're in, driving costs up.)
2. Increased customer service (Hey, did you see xxxxyyyy.com? Is that you guys?)
3. Business model damage (After they poorly execute the same business model you're doing, it can impact your business model -- "Eh, we tried that shit, it don't work.")

IMO, the danger isn't disclosing the idea, but disclosing how much $ the idea is generating. This gives wantrepreneurs an insight into what's possible WITHOUT exposing them to the process of making it happen. In other words, they see "EVENTS"! (Wow, that site is making how much??)

Of course, the above isn't true for products/services that have strong entry barriers, or for concepts/ideas that aren't easily replicable -- those barriers usually are enough to keep the idea-hoppers away.

The point of this post is to explain WHY some people are a little wary about disclosing specifics about their company, their website, and their profits.

In the end, I always thought publicly disclosing my business and attaching profit figures to it was like letting a bunch of mosquitoes into my bedroom -- yea, they won't kill me, but they will bite me here and there, and ultimately, annoy the f*ck out of me.

Hey here we have why everyone is doing window cleaning now haha.

@piano and me disclosed that we both made around 1k in our first month.

Now look at this: A business model that has no barrier to entry, aside from the willingness to do housechores. A business model that lets you make "100€ a day" in income basically the day you start. Then you really have the nail in the overdone coffin which is social proof. You see people that have nothing special about them making decent money right away.

 

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