What's with the negativity?

[SteveO]

I remember hearing a counselor talking to a person. They said "words hurt". This person in need of help was a relative of mine. He was medicated and having a tough time with life. The counselor was telling another family member that the "tough love" was not a good thing to administer to this fragile individual.

I had a lot of trouble processing that phrase. It rattled around in my head like broken glass. I felt like they were giving this person another reason to act out and look for pity. I had and have a deep love and caring for all my relatives but did not agree with the advice at all.

Most of us have been through depression. I had a strong bout a number of years ago that reshaped my life. I had to work my way out of it myself. There were no words from someone else that would magically make the world make sense. But I was not looking for that advice either. There was not anything that anybody could say to me that would make me feel worse either.

We have it in ourselves to take what other people say and apply it to our lives. We have the choice on whether to allow them to affect our own personal world or not.

If you ask for advice, you may get it. If you don't like it, let the words fall to the ground. Don't let them hurt you in any way though.

 

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[Imgal]

Awesome post @SteveO - this should be recommended reading for anyone entering the forum. Seriously.

 

[AllenCrawley]

I remember hearing a counsellor talking to a person. They said "words hurt". This person in need of help was a relative of mine. He was medicated and having a tough time with life. The counsellor was telling another family member that the "tough love" was not a good thing to administer to this fragile individual.

I had a lot of trouble processing that phrase. It rattled around in my head like broken glass. I felt like they were giving this person another reason to act out and look for pity. I had and have a deep love and caring for all my relatives but did not agree with the advice at all.

Most of us have been through depression. I had a strong bout a number of years ago that reshaped my life. I had to work my way out of it myself. There were no words from someone else that would magically make the world make sense. But I was not looking for that advice either. There was not anything that anybody could say to me that would make me feel worse either.

We have it in ourselves to take what other people say and apply it to our lives. We have the choice on whether to allow them to affect our own personal world or not.

If you ask for advice, you may get it. If you don't like it, let the words fall to the ground. Don't let them hurt you in any way though.

Good words of wisdom @SteveO.

I can't say that I've ever truly dealt with depression. Sure I've had some moments of despair but never depression. We can all only speak of our own personal situations in my opinion. I'm thankful for the slaps in the face telling me to snap out of it. It has worked for me. However, I understand that some will not respond positively to that same method.

It's especially harmful to use it on someone who is going through depression. Telling a depressed person to "snap out of it" is like saying "don't be scared" to someone who is being held at gunpoint. A depressed person doesn't need to be told that they are screwed up. All it does is twist the knife.

Public Service Announcement: If you are battling depression, seek professional help and consider not posting on this forum. We do not know your personal situation and many times people respond unfiltered. If you believe the responses you may get from our members may be harmful to you in any way do not post here.

I think there is a fine line between tough love and just being rude.

I agree that there is a difference in tough love and rudeness. Yes, some on this forum can be downright rude. Most, IMO, are truly trying to help guide and direct others (whether the OP asked for it or not). A few have pretty thin skin and have difficulty with others being direct and mistake it for rudeness.

I still hold the position that if you can't take bluntness or "tough love" you're going to have a difficult time as an entrepreneur.

 

[Formless]

From my own experiences, the reason I can't handle tough love is because at my core, I'm so afraid of failing/being wrong/being shown up.

I only realized this today after my friend sent me a message.

The message said 'Hey remember the goals we set a month ago? I just reached mine. Pull your finger out!'

And it pissed me off, but I resisted the urge to knee-jerk. I said to myself 'let's assume he's right'. (My ego is so fragile that I actually had to say 'let's assume' as if it was a matter of debate.)

The only reason I didn't achieve the goals we both set last month is because I have been working without focus. I just worked to tick boxes and get paid, as opposed to fulfilling the criteria necessary to accomplish my goal.

*MY* lack of focus was why *I *failed to achieve that particular goal. And because I (just about) managed to keep my ego at bay and allow his 'tough love' to sink in, I'm going to refocus and catch up.

So I'm changing my stance on tough love. I feel like I'll be a lot more thankful for it in the future.

Perhaps there's a lesson here for others too.

 

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[Imgal]

@Formless - so damn awesome to see you coming to this conclusion and being willing to declare it publicly. I'm sure a lot of people can completely connect with those feelings of failure being so intrinsically tied to our egos. I also know that knee jerk reaction all too well. I used to be awful at it. I'd be lying if I'd said I've grown to a point where it doesn't occur. It still does far more than I'd like. The difference is these days that I see it not as a signal that I have been wronged and the person who "caused" the reaction must be destroyed (okay a tiny bit melodramatic....), but as a sign I've got some kind of block or issue that needs resolving. That change of perspective has been enlightening.

 

[AllenCrawley]

From my own experiences, the reason I can't handle tough love is because at my core, I'm so afraid of failing/being wrong/being shown up.

I only realized this today after my friend sent me a message.

The message said 'Hey remember the goals we set a month ago? I just reached mine. Pull your finger out!'

And it pissed me off, but I resisted the urge to knee-jerk. I said to myself 'let's assume he's right'. (My ego is so fragile that I actually had to say 'let's assume' as if it was a matter of debate.)

The only reason I didn't achieve the goals we both set last month is because I have been working without focus. I just worked to tick boxes and get paid, as opposed to fulfilling the criteria necessary to accomplish my goal.

*MY* lack of focus was why *I *failed to achieve that particular goal. And because I (just about) managed to keep my ego at bay and allow his 'tough love' to sink in, I'm going to refocus and catch up.

So I'm changing my stance on tough love. I feel like I'll be a lot more thankful for it in the future.

Perhaps there's a lesson here for others too.

You may not have liked it but it seems it caused you identify why you didn't meet those goals and start a course correction.

 

[DtRockstar1]

I have learned from people who verbally bitch slapped me on the internet about videos that I edited and my videos have improved because of it, but I gotta say it often crushed me. Sometimes for days, sometimes for weeks. I do admit that I often have a hard time taking harsh criticism. I have a hard time considering the source, and knowing when to take the advice and when to take things with a grain of salt. I think that's why I am sometimes afraid to take chances, because the pain of being shot down makes it hard for me to persevere in spite of failure/rejection.

The truth is to be successful you do need drive and passion, but emotion can kill your progress. Taking words as advice and not as personal attacks is the biggest lessons I've learnt in this game. I recognise in a depressive state, whether that be situational or chemical, that this however is not so black and white and I honestly would suggest for those struggling that perhaps while you are getting back on track that this may not be the right environment for you. People here care. People want to help, but we are mental health professionals and so we don't have the tools to help people in the way they may need it and to use the forum to try and find that in these cases I would suggest is actually quite dangerous.

I could not have said this better myself. Sometimes our emotions can get the best of us when getting a harsh response. I think it's especially hard to distinguish between tough love and just being plain mean when it's all in text. You can't see the person's body language or hear their tone of voice.

I remember hearing a counsellor talking to a person. They said "words hurt". This person in need of help was a relative of mine. He was medicated and having a tough time with life. The counsellor was telling another family member that the "tough love" was not a good thing to administer to this fragile individual.

I had a lot of trouble processing that phrase. It rattled around in my head like broken glass. I felt like they were giving this person another reason to act out and look for pity. I had and have a deep love and caring for all my relatives but did not agree with the advice at all.

I see what you are saying about looking for pity. I think that counselor's advice is more true when the person is depressed due to a chemical imbalance or PTSD. When someone has a chemical imbalance, no amount of positive thinking/action can snap them out of a depressed state. Giving them tough love is just beating a dead horse, it doesn't do any good. If, on the other hand, the person is still depressed 6 months after a breakup and they are just sitting around feeling sorry for themselves, then I would totally agree that that person needs a kick in the a$$ and not treated like a fragile sculpture.

 

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[juturna]

Well, looks like we're all to blame for.

 

[Five Star]

Ultimately, it's obvious that we're all different, which is a good thing! What works for one person, won't work for another. Even in some cases, what works for one person one day, does not necessarily work for the same person on a different day!

We are constantly changing and evolving and in different emotional states depending on our circumstances and environment at the time. This has a lot to do with it.

Stronger, confident personalities seem to be generally 'more stable' however and not so affected by external changes.

I don't think it's the right approach to use on someone who is frustrated, at their wits end, on the verge of giving up, or depressed.

Personally, THIS ^^ is where I'm at right now. If someone were to give me tough love at the moment it would probably make me crumble. On the other hand, if someone was to mollycoddle me, would I end up just looking for more sympathy and not progress? Possibly. So really, it can sometimes be hard to know what is the best thing to say.

If I had a solid plan in place and was making positive progress, therefore feeling good within myself then likely I could take some tough love more constructively and use it in a positive way.

It's important to be yourself in your responses and not to tip-toe around, though it's worth trying to gauge the personality type and situation of the OP asking the questions, and perhaps trying to tailor your response a little without changing your core values.

Just my opinion!


BTW......please don't ever, ever do this:

Telling a depressed person to "snap out of it"

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Bump.

Maybe I was a little harsh on a few people today.

 

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[SteveO]

Maybe I was a little harsh on a few people today.

So... What's with the negativity?

 

[LightHouse]

So... What's with the negativity?

He has been talking to me too much lately. Sorry KFS

 

[BellaPippin]

It is true some people need that "maybe this is on Google" filter before posting a question... That doesn't mean you have to answer it, guys. Mr. De Marco has this profile picture that explains it pretty well (the one of "Jim moves on"). And while I do agree with him that some things might have become old for them, just move on. It's not your responsibility to put anyone on the right track or teach them some manners, unless you feel like doing it. If you think "ugh if some other dumbass asking this question I'm gonna scream" then just let go, someone with more patience might come along and post an answer. Even brainstorming between newbies something good can come up.

I believe tough love might work for some but you would still be saying something constructive for it to work, I just read someone call "lazy a-hole" to someone that said had some depression and anxiety problems. That's not tough love, that's just uncalled-for rudeness.

I do have plenty of probably stupid questions I'd like to post, one because I'm failing at joining the fastlane because of my own behavior and also because I guess it's a little in human nature to just try to get someone give us the answer so we can spare ourselves a few failures from the process.

Again I don't deny some people might come across as lazy, but if you can't manage to find a little empathy for that stranger on the internet who has a story that you don't know anything about, just be the better person and move on to the next post, maybe it will be something more interesting to what you actually do want to contribute. It so easy to judge because most of us are strangers to each other. But I can see a lot of good relationships have come out of this forum as well.

Just my 5 cents, this is only my opinion and not the absolute truth. The reason I don't post much is because I fear the people who actually ARE driving in the fastlane will feel like this about me. I don't like bothering people or wasting their time. I might be missing on help as well because of this fear.

But thanks for posting this, OP, you read my mind.

 

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[SK2kev]

Great thread, lots of good info here!

Depression is a bitch (although I've never been depressed I've dealt with family who has). I consider myself lucky.

I've always been a knee-jerk reaction kind of guy, but I find I'm getting better at stepping back and analyzing situations before I jump in and react.

 

[Buickestate]

I just need a hug.

Someone get him a Hug-a-lot bear and a mustashe cup for Christmas.

The negativity that occurs on this forum, isn't limited to this forum. It's very common on other forums as well, it's when the senior members tire of the newbies asking the same frequently asked questions. Newbies are often overwhelmed by the vast number of forum topics, I know I was at first. Some newbies have no clue how to navigate this forum. Not all forums are laid out the same. Took me a day or two to find the search function. In my humble opinion making it more visible, with bolder font and more prominent, could reduce the numbers of frequently asked questions by us newbies.

I'm not the most computer literate person, I still feel a little lost stumbling through the features and functions of this forum. I might also be a little blind but I'm not seeing a FAQ button or feature. If there is and I'm just not looking in the right place, then please patiently direct me to it. If there isn't, then why not?

A final thought for you senior members, please be patient with this batch of newbies that I'm part of. We're nothing compared to the "Participation Award Generation" that are coming soon.......

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Giving this a big 'ol bump.
Just as relevant now as it was 3 years ago(!)




committed to being less of a jerk to everyone

 

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