The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success
  • Join 50,000+ entrepreneurs who are earning their freedom and living their dream.

    "Fastlane" is an entrepreneur discussion forum based on The Unscripted Entrepreneurial Framework (TUNEF) outlined in the two best-selling books by MJ DeMarco (The Millionaire Fastlane and UNSCRIPTED™). From multimillionaires to digital nomads, the forum features real entrepreneurs creating real businesses.

    Download (Unscripted) Download (Millionaire Fastlane) Register
    Registering for the forum removes this block.

What's the best way to study maths?

hoponthebop

New Contributor
Apr 16, 2019
37
13
16
Hey!

This kinda off topic. Im in my last year of high school and I have no ideia how to study maths.

I mean I always good at maths. Always a straight A student with minimum effort until last year when my math grades just (idk if it was anxiety or depression but i can cope with that stuff now but my grades wont go up) and Im having a C now, with not much left for it to drop to a F (I dont think it will but im afraid it will though)

I have no ideia how to study for maths but i want to raise my grades. I've tried many methods. I've tried like just reading the book and doing exercises from the book, i've tried self explaining concepts, i've tried watching videos and reading about it and my grades still didnt go up

What do you recommend me to do to learn maths?
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

Tubs

Building discipline
FASTLANE INSIDER
Apr 5, 2019
41
48
112
21
VA
Try reading the book 'A Mind for Numbers' by Barbara Oakley. It'll teach you how to learn the concepts more efficiently, rather than just cramming.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
May 20, 2014
8,072
34,180
4,306
Ireland
www.andyblack.net
I found the best way was to look at past papers then figure out how to answer the questions.

Some tips here too:
 

scottmsul

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Apr 29, 2017
85
267
170
28
Boulder, CO
Back in undergrad I always learned best by reading the book and doing exercises, to the point where I would deliberately skip lectures but spend more time reading/practicing than anyone I knew (I did very well grade-wise). If I needed help understanding the intuition behind a concept, I would sometimes watch Khan Academy videos. But as far as time spent, the balance was very skewed towards reading/exercises.

In order to get a high grade you need to succeed at exams. To succeed at exams, you need to be good at the skill of solving the relevant math problems. Like any skill, the best way to advance is through practice. If you were taking a piano class, and the exams consisted of playing difficult recitals, you would practice playing the recitals, instead of watching other people playing.

I know you mentioned you already tried reading and doing the exercises, but how much? Have you tried a focused hour every day? Focused meaning no cell phone, internet, facebook, etc.
 

Ernman

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 8, 2019
279
502
242
59
Florida, USA
This will sound counter intuitive, but stop worrying about your grades and focus on learning. RELAX! In five or ten years, nobody will give a rat's butt about your grades in calculus, trig, matrix algebra, differential equations or any of the other math disciplines. And depending on what you do in life, you may not care either. Learn math for the joy that it can bring in understanding things and solving problems.

I remember the first day I solved a real life problem using basic math principles. What a wonderful experience.

This is very much like a crucial underpinning of our Fastlane culture. Don't chase money, attract it. Learn for the joy of learning and the grades will happen.
 

ZF Lee

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jul 27, 2016
1,888
3,325
771
20
Malaysia
Try reading the book 'A Mind for Numbers' by Barbara Oakley. It'll teach you how to learn the concepts more efficiently, rather than just cramming.
I read it.

The surprising part is what she recommends:
- do a list of math questions every day
- leave the ones you can't do first, and come back later to attempt them again

This is somewhat similar to the copywriting editing process, which is supposedly right-brained, as opposed to math's left-brained stance.

In my econometrics class at uni, I will take a formula, and break it down.

Maybe it could be OLS or Gauss Markov assumptions.

I might ask myself these:
- what's this variable for?
- can it come in a different unit?
- are there other ways to get this or that variable?
- what happens to the formula if I can't give this or that variable?
- can this formula be obtained from a simpler set of formulas? Is so, then how? (proving and derivation)

Then after that, I do exercises.

It's actually no different than succeeding and failing in a business.
So if you can built up competence in math, doing business should be no problem.

BTW, on a side note...
For kids who want to 'run away' to business or arts school, away from the horrible STEM subjects...
It's not the best move to make.
Math is simply everywhere, even for business ( accounting, finance and analytics)
 

Kevin88660

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Feb 8, 2019
158
179
139
Singapore
Hey!

This kinda off topic. Im in my last year of high school and I have no ideia how to study maths.

I mean I always good at maths. Always a straight A student with minimum effort until last year when my math grades just (idk if it was anxiety or depression but i can cope with that stuff now but my grades wont go up) and Im having a C now, with not much left for it to drop to a F (I dont think it will but im afraid it will though)

I have no ideia how to study for maths but i want to raise my grades. I've tried many methods. I've tried like just reading the book and doing exercises from the book, i've tried self explaining concepts, i've tried watching videos and reading about it and my grades still didnt go up

What do you recommend me to do to learn maths?
You need to understand that when you go to higher levels math ceased to become math.

Math is like going to gym to build muscles.

You need to drill practice questions. Then gather insights on the problem solving process. “For this type of problem I usually need to solve using these two steps...”

Then repeat. Good insight gathering process allow you to achieve mastery faster but certain repetitive practice cannot be avoided.

Ask your teacher and those who are good in math. That will speed up the learning process.
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Speedway Pass
Sep 3, 2017
1,098
2,393
562
Singapore
As someone who always failed maths (I suspect I've maths dyslexia), what is the practical use of maths in the real world?

Unless you're in some engineering or computing field, I don't really see it being applied in daily life for most people. Very basic calculations like plus, fractions, division, multiplications etc....yup, but calculus? Further Maths? And stuff like :

Elynn, Fiona and Greg had a total of 336 cards.
First Elynn gave Fiona as many cards as Fiona had.
Then Fiona gave Greg as many cards as Greg had, and finally Greg gave Elynn as many cards as Elynn had left.
In the end, all of them had the same number of cards.
How many cards did Elynn have at first?
WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. F*CK.

Do we really need stuff like this? Because in a real life situation, the correct "answer" would be to just straight-up go and ask Elynn how many cards he had at first, and if he refuse, trade a toy or candy with him.
Who the hell uses algebra in the real world for a situation like this unless you're a bot? Do you?

Maybe the whole maths education is a scam to begin with.
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

ApparentHorizon

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
Apr 1, 2016
783
2,282
553
Greenville, SC
As someone who always failed maths (I suspect I've maths dyslexia), what is the practical use of maths in the real world?

Unless you're in some engineering or computing field, I don't really see it being applied in daily life for most people. Very basic calculations like plus, fractions, division, multiplications etc....yup, but calculus? Further Maths? And stuff like :

Elynn, Fiona and Greg had a total of 336 cards.

First Elynn gave Fiona as many cards as Fiona had.
Then Fiona gave Greg as many cards as Greg had
and finally Greg gave Elynn as many cards as Elynn had left.

In the end, all of them had the same number of cards.
How many cards did Elynn have at first?

WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. F*CK.

Do we really need stuff like this? Because in a real life situation, the correct "answer" would be to just straight-up go and ask Elynn how many cards he had at first, and if he refuse, trade a toy or candy with him.
Who the hell uses algebra in the real world for a situation like this unless you're a bot? Do you?

Maybe the whole maths education is a scam to begin with.
Math is one of the few which is not a scam in school. There are billionaires built from its understanding. (See Renaissance Technologies.) The world runs on it. Your phone, your sewage system, etc.

The problem you posted is meant to wire your brain in a way to solve it. Since you only know the end outcome, and you have multiple steps, the easiest way is to start backwards.

The problem I had with it in school, was that it didn't connect to the real world. It's taught as abstract concepts, which have a hard time sticking into your brain.

The card problem is meant to relate to the student. Which I imagine is rudimentary algebra.

But as you pointed out, no one gives a flying fk how many cards there are.

Now if they would have taught it as, discovering interdimensional aliens bringing in chocolates from across the galaxy. Maybe then you'd have my attention.

and just for fun...

Steps in purple

upload_2019-4-20_16-19-36.png
 
Last edited:

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
May 20, 2014
8,072
34,180
4,306
Ireland
www.andyblack.net
It hinges on this:
i want to raise my grades.
What will raise your grades?

At a guess, passing exams.

When I did my Maths degree I did two weeks studying each year, - just before the exams. I didn’t bother going to lectures. I didn’t bother getting copies of other people’s notes either. I had no intention of “learning”. Just passing the exams and getting out of there.

I printed out five years of past papers for each subject I studied.

For one subject I’d chop up all the papers and then bluetack each of the questions on a large sheet of paper on the wall that was laid out in a grid (five across and eight down).

All eight questions for one year would run down one column. I’d have one column for each of the five years.

I’d then look at across the question 1s for each year, and rearrange them so they matched. For one year question 3 was the question one for the two previous years. I’d move that up, and move question 1 down.

It wouldn’t take long to find four full questions that are asked similarly each year. And another couple of half questions.

I’d then get get a brown file for each of the five questions I figured would come up in my exams, and put all the learning material in that folder. The five exam questions and their answers.

Once I’d done that for each subject I’d have a stack of brown files to go through. I’d then knock up a calendar on the wall with 2 hours allocated per question. So that would be 10 hours per subject.

Just two weeks studying each year and I got my 2:2 Honours degree.

I’m not suggesting you follow this to a tee. I am suggesting you figure out what your goal is and work smart so you achieve it.


Oh, and as @AgainstAllOdds said, if you’re banging your head against a brick wall then amentor could untangle you in a few minutes of 1-2-1.



It doesn’t escape me how many parallels there are to business...
 

The Abundant Man

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 3, 2018
1,338
1,857
552
As someone who always failed maths (I suspect I've maths dyslexia), what is the practical use of maths in the real world?

Unless you're in some engineering or computing field, I don't really see it being applied in daily life for most people. Very basic calculations like plus, fractions, division, multiplications etc....yup, but calculus? Further Maths? And stuff like :



WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. F*CK.

Do we really need stuff like this? Because in a real life situation, the correct "answer" would be to just straight-up go and ask Elynn how many cards he had at first, and if he refuse, trade a toy or candy with him.
Who the hell uses algebra in the real world for a situation like this unless you're a bot? Do you?

Maybe the whole maths education is a scam to begin with.
Math is logic. It's problem solving.

If you figure this concept out. You can use it to figure daily stuff out.
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Speedway Pass
Sep 3, 2017
1,098
2,393
562
Singapore
Math is logic. It's problem solving. If you figure this concept out. You can use it to figure daily stuff out.
Nope, no correlation to real world, daily problems unless you're trying to figure out why the rocket deviates 0.539215496 inches from the trajectory it was originally planned for.

The neighbour's dog barks loudly every night but the cops refuse to do anything. Now the wife can't sleep in peace and gets cranky.

Jane is upset after finding out her bestie Liv cheated on her with Josh, her boyfriend. She is enraged and wants to get back at them.

Tony's product launched 2 months ago, but he got only one sale. Now he needs to figure out his next course of action before he uses up the remaining $2k in his bank.

Good luck with using algebra or any form of math formulas or calculus crap to solve any of these real world issues, or even apply those to these.
 

JScott

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Aug 24, 2007
3,887
6,650
1,511
www.123flip.com
Nope, no correlation to real world, daily problems unless you're trying to figure out why the rocket deviates 0.539215496 inches from the trajectory it was originally planned for.
That has nothing to do with the original example. The original example was about using logic to generate a model (in this case, an algebraic equation) that you can use to solve the problem.

I can't speak for others, but I create models every day to solve problems in my business. More importantly, I create models that allow me to measure the results of my efforts in my business -- these allow me to make my business more efficient.

You want a perfect example of how being able to use logic to generate a model can help a business?

Read this thread (especially the last 1.5 pages):

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/2-4-million-in-sales-but-having-cash-flow-problems.85844/

The OP is has had many issues with cash flow management -- basically, he hasn't done a good job of forecasting how much cash he'll need at various point in time to ensure that he can meet his financial obligations.

This is a common problem in business. And the best solution is building cash flow models that allow you to forecast when you might run into issues paying your bills. This requires logic, algebraic equations and a good grasp of some basic math.

This is just one example of where running a business can get complicated if you're not good at modeling and you're not good at logic and math. There are plenty of others. Anyone who runs a successful business will eventually run into these types of situations, and not being able to grasp the logic/math required to forecast/solve these issues may cost you a lot of money.

In fact, the OP in that thread might actually lose a lot of orders and a lot of money because he didn't/couldn't do that modeling.

The neighbour's dog barks loudly every night but the cops refuse to do anything. Now the wife can't sleep in peace and gets cranky.

Jane is upset after finding out her bestie Liv cheated on her with Josh, her boyfriend. She is enraged and wants to get back at them.

Tony's product launched 2 months ago, but he got only one sale. Now he needs to figure out his next course of action before he uses up the remaining $2k in his bank.

Good luck with using algebra or any form of math formulas or calculus crap to solve any of these real world issues, or even apply those to these.
Are you really arguing that because SOME problems in this world don't require logic/math that logic/math are not important. That's a perfect example of where not understand logic has already failed you.

And btw, your example about Tony's product launching and not getting much traction is another good example of where using logic to build mathematical models is valuable. Do some research on A/B Testing models to understand why.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 25, 2007
6,351
28,195
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
what is the practical use of maths in the real world?

Unless you're in some engineering or computing field, I don't really see it being applied in daily life for most people. Very basic calculations like plus, fractions, division, multiplications etc....yup, but calculus? Further Maths? And stuff like :

Elynn, Fiona and Greg had a total of 336 cards.
First Elynn gave Fiona as many cards as Fiona had.
Then Fiona gave Greg as many cards as Greg had, and finally Greg gave Elynn as many cards as Elynn had left.
In the end, all of them had the same number of cards.
How many cards did Elynn have at first?

WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. F*CK.

Do we really need stuff like this? Because in a real life situation, the correct "answer" would be to just straight-up go and ask Elynn how many cards he had at first, and if he refuse, trade a toy or candy with him.
Who the hell uses algebra in the real world for a situation like this unless you're a bot? Do you?

Maybe the whole maths education is a scam to begin with.
I, 100% disagree. In fact your problem stated is fairly easy to solve. See you would assign each person a variable to the number of cards, like E, F and G. Then when some gives Fiona as many as she has, now you know she was 2F in cards. Greg has 2G. Elynn has 2E. And you know F + G+ E = 336. Now I'm not 100% positive my variables are right here, but this is exactly how you would solve this problem. You would write it out given your data and figure out a course of action.

Now your other problem, "Tony's product launched 2 months ago, but he got only one sale. Now he needs to figure out his next course of action before he uses up the remaining $2k in his bank."

Again, this is a problem solving problem where you need to identify the variables and assign values to them. Let's say you got some data, Tony has received 1000 visitors on his website, 50 add to carts and 1 sale. What is his next course of action with his remaining $2k ?

Let's add some more information for Tony.
Google CPC averages $.40
Google conversion rate is 2% on CPC
Facebook CPC averages $.85
FB conversion rate is 3% on CPC
Website redesign that may increase his conversion rate by 25% will cost $1000
Profit margins are 50% and his product costs $50.

So @Xeon if Tony told you this and asked what he should do with his $2k, how would you advise him here?


It's not about the actual math... it's really about being able to think about a problem by assigning variables to every day issues.

You know Elon Musk when he started his Boring Company asked the current manufacturers if the limitation on their boring machines was due to power or heat and they didn't know. They didn't know why their boring machines had a maximum boring rate of XX ft/hr.

Elon was asking a fundamental physics question that was entrenched with math. If it was a power limitation then he could just strap larger engines and batteries to it. If it was a heat issue, then he needed to figure out how to dissipate the heat. But step one was to find the limiting variable. He knew the right question to ask.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 25, 2007
6,351
28,195
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
Actually, I do have an actual math problem from just 3 weeks ago.

I had a product on Amazon that had enough inventory for 2 days. I would be out of stock on day 3. This product made a profit of $250/day.

My supplier gave me 3 options for shipping:
DHL 3 days - $2700
Fedex 5 days - $2000
UPS 7 days - $1800
Sea shipping 21 days - $1000

Which one do I choose? This was a tough one, because I lose $250/day every day that I am out of stock.

Let's use sea shipping as a base cost. $1000 is the cost I have to spend no matter what.

So now my costs look like this:
DHL 3 days - + $1700
Fedex 5 days - +$1000
UPS 7 days - +$800

So DHL would seem like a no brainer because I would have no loss in sales.

But then you see that Fedex is $700 less and only 2 days later. I would lose only $500 in sales and save $700, so Fedex is +$200 vs. DHL

UPS is 2 days after Fedex. I would lose $500 in sales and save only $200, so UPS is -$300 vs. Fedex

So in this case I chose the middle one, Fedex 5 days. Sea shipping was clearing a losing choice.

Anyway, just thought I'd point out this little problem solving event that I had to do a few weeks ago.
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Speedway Pass
Sep 3, 2017
1,098
2,393
562
Singapore
Tbh, I was haemorrhaging with rage as I was reading JScott's post, but after reading Bio's post, I started to see where these guys are coming from (the ecommerce example is relevant).

I still don't agree with the whole "business mathematical models" thing, because there's so many variables in life that you simply cannot use maths models to accurately predict them. But folks like JScott is in investing if I remember. I guess investors do need to look at complex graphs and all that stuff, but for the rest of us.....can maths models predict the next recession? Anyway.....

Now your other problem, "Tony's product launched 2 months ago, but he got only one sale. Now he needs to figure out his next course of action before he uses up the remaining $2k in his bank."
Tony has received 1000 visitors on his website, 50 add to carts and 1 sale. What is his next course of action with his remaining $2k ?

Let's add some more information for Tony.
Google CPC averages $.40
Google conversion rate is 2% on CPC
Facebook CPC averages $.85
FB conversion rate is 3% on CPC
Website redesign that may increase his conversion rate by 25% will cost $1000
Profit margins are 50% and his product costs $50.

So @Xeon if Tony told you this and asked what he should do with his $2k, how would you advise him here?
I failed maths in every grade all the way to 19 yrs old where I don't need to take math anymore, but let's analyse this. It took me a while tbh.

Google & FB CPC are at different rates, so let's figure out Google's first:

$0.40 gives 2% conversion. We convert 2% to decimal for easy calculation, so it's 0.02.

$0.40 CPC gives 0.02 conversion
$0.10 CPC gives (0.02 / $0.40) = 0.005
$0.85 CPC gives ((0.005 / 0.10) * $0.85) = 0.0425

0.0425 switch back to % is 4.25%. Therefore we conclude that for each $0.85 / CPC in Google Ads, the conversion rate is 4.25%.

And the FB conversion rate for the same $0.85 is 3%.

Therefore, Tony should continue to scale his Google ads. I would even go as far as to say drop any FB ads he's doing to focus on his Google ads to maximize his ROI.

"Website redesign 25% conversion rate will cost $1000" needs no calculation. He needs to start on that asap to get $$$ in. With increased sales, he might even get more positive reviews, which he can put on his website / social media for more sales.....these factors are outside the realm of maths.

I guess beyond a certain grade, students should be given a choice to opt-out of maths if they don't intend to go into STEM fields. *shudders*

Add to that, I believe for most schools in the world, you need to provide a very specific set of solutions to arrive at the answer. If the process or working method is "unorthodox" and does not fit in with the model answer, it's considered wrong even if the answer is correct.

I had a product on Amazon that had enough inventory for 2 days. I would be out of stock on day 3. This product made a profit of $250/day.

My supplier gave me 3 options for shipping:
DHL 3 days - $2700
Fedex 5 days - $2000
UPS 7 days - $1800
Sea shipping 21 days - $1000

Which one do I choose? This was a tough one, because I lose $250/day every day that I am out of stock.

Let's use sea shipping as a base cost. $1000 is the cost I have to spend no matter what.

So now my costs look like this:
DHL 3 days - + $1700
Fedex 5 days - +$1000
UPS 7 days - +$800

So DHL would seem like a no brainer because I would have no loss in sales.

But then you see that Fedex is $700 less and only 2 days later. I would lose only $500 in sales and save $700, so Fedex is +$200 vs. DHL

UPS is 2 days after Fedex. I would lose $500 in sales and save only $200, so UPS is -$300 vs. Fedex

So in this case I chose the middle one, Fedex 5 days. Sea shipping was clearing a losing choice.

Anyway, just thought I'd point out this little problem solving event that I had to do a few weeks ago.
When faced with scenarios like these, have you ever tried to simplify things and "go with your gut instinct"? Or ask the supplier to figure it out for you since you're the client?

Just curious as you're into eComm and some of us here like myself are too.

I find your out of stock example above to be very interesting and don't mind spending an entire afternoon to work it out, but not the Elynn cards type of problem sums we used to get in schools back then.
 

JScott

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Aug 24, 2007
3,887
6,650
1,511
www.123flip.com
When faced with scenarios like these, have you ever tried to simplify things and "go with your gut instinct"? Or ask the supplier to figure it out for you since you're the client?

Just curious as you're into eComm and some of us here like myself are too.
I'm not just an investor -- I own businesses, I've run businesses for Fortune 10 companies and have been advising business owners for a long time. I've seen plenty of business owners who "go with their gut instincts" -- some of them have good gut instincts and do very well. Some of them have bad gut instincts and find themselves out of business very quickly.

And you know what generally leads to good or bad gut instincts? Understanding the math. Business instinct isn't something that's in our DNA; it's something that is developed and honed over time.

Warren Buffett can probably decide in 2 minutes if a business might be worth buying -- it's not because Buffett has some innate instinct for buying businesses; it's because he spent years/decades meticulously doing it by studying, understanding the math behind the business, understanding the less tangible things, etc. Eventually, that rational and logical understanding turned to instinct. It didn't start that way.

I find your out of stock example above to be very interesting and don't mind spending an entire afternoon to work it out...
And that's why math is important. I don't find the problem "interesting" at all -- it's the type of problem that businesses owners will run into every single day. And if it takes you more than 30 seconds to figure out the right answer (from a purely financial perspective, go with the 5 day shipping), you likely have other big problems in your business that you don't even realize.

Btw, I don't say these things to make you "haemorrhage with rage" -- I'm just trying to get you to see what is obvious to a lot of people who have been running businesses for a long time.
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

Arun Siva

aspiring 大君 of the bourgeoisie
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 31, 2016
1,189
1,957
563
NORD-TRONDELAG
smythebates.com
math is essential and the way it is taught in most american schools is laughable. THe nordic model is better in this regards. I can say though some resources that helped me in engineering was MATHTutorDVD a guy named jason from texas absolutely phenominal. I high recommend investing in his website (i am sure you can find his dvds and such "elsewhere") but dont be a prick. THe guy is top notch.
 

hoponthebop

New Contributor
Apr 16, 2019
37
13
16
Back in undergrad I always learned best by reading the book and doing exercises, to the point where I would deliberately skip lectures but spend more time reading/practicing than anyone I knew (I did very well grade-wise). If I needed help understanding the intuition behind a concept, I would sometimes watch Khan Academy videos. But as far as time spent, the balance was very skewed towards reading/exercises.

In order to get a high grade you need to succeed at exams. To succeed at exams, you need to be good at the skill of solving the relevant math problems. Like any skill, the best way to advance is through practice. If you were taking a piano class, and the exams consisted of playing difficult recitals, you would practice playing the recitals, instead of watching other people playing.

I know you mentioned you already tried reading and doing the exercises, but how much? Have you tried a focused hour every day? Focused meaning no cell phone, internet, facebook, etc.
I've tried for like 1-2h everyday for 4 straight weeks and I got a C on the exam lmao. Im starting to feel like im dumb
This will sound counter intuitive, but stop worrying about your grades and focus on learning. RELAX! In five or ten years, nobody will give a rat's butt about your grades in calculus, trig, matrix algebra, differential equations or any of the other math disciplines. And depending on what you do in life, you may not care either. Learn math for the joy that it can bring in understanding things and solving problems.

I remember the first day I solved a real life problem using basic math principles. What a wonderful experience.

This is very much like a crucial underpinning of our Fastlane culture. Don't chase money, attract it. Learn for the joy of learning and the grades will happen.
The problem is that I dont know how to learn!
As someone who always failed maths (I suspect I've maths dyslexia), what is the practical use of maths in the real world?

Unless you're in some engineering or computing field, I don't really see it being applied in daily life for most people. Very basic calculations like plus, fractions, division, multiplications etc....yup, but calculus? Further Maths? And stuff like :



WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. F*CK.

Do we really need stuff like this? Because in a real life situation, the correct "answer" would be to just straight-up go and ask Elynn how many cards he had at first, and if he refuse, trade a toy or candy with him.
Who the hell uses algebra in the real world for a situation like this unless you're a bot? Do you?

Maybe the whole maths education is a scam to begin with.
I mean I also dont think I will ever use calculus or stuff like that but i still gotta learn it to have good grades
It hinges on this:


What will raise your grades?

At a guess, passing exams.

When I did my Maths degree I did two weeks studying each year, - just before the exams. I didn’t bother going to lectures. I didn’t bother getting copies of other people’s notes either. I had no intention of “learning”. Just passing the exams and getting out of there.

I printed out five years of past papers for each subject I studied.

For one subject I’d chop up all the papers and then bluetack each of the questions on a large sheet of paper on the wall that was laid out in a grid (five across and eight down).

All eight questions for one year would run down one column. I’d have one column for each of the five years.

I’d then look at across the question 1s for each year, and rearrange them so they matched. For one year question 3 was the question one for the two previous years. I’d move that up, and move question 1 down.

It wouldn’t take long to find four full questions that are asked similarly each year. And another couple of half questions.

I’d then get get a brown file for each of the five questions I figured would come up in my exams, and put all the learning material in that folder. The five exam questions and their answers.

Once I’d done that for each subject I’d have a stack of brown files to go through. I’d then knock up a calendar on the wall with 2 hours allocated per question. So that would be 10 hours per subject.

Just two weeks studying each year and I got my 2:2 Honours degree.

I’m not suggesting you follow this to a tee. I am suggesting you figure out what your goal is and work smart so you achieve it.


Oh, and as @AgainstAllOdds said, if you’re banging your head against a brick wall then amentor could untangle you in a few minutes of 1-2-1.



It doesn’t escape me how many parallels there are to business...
So like in the core i should just solve past exams?
Math | Khan Academy worked the best for me in high school when I'd get stuck.
I've tried it and I didnt work quite well :/




ALSO I dont have a tutor and I wont ever go to a tutor because they all suck hard here. Everyone I know goes to a tutor and they cant even get more than a C!
 

Ernman

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 8, 2019
279
502
242
59
Florida, USA
I've tried for like 1-2h everyday for 4 straight weeks and I got a C on the exam lmao. Im starting to feel like im dumb
The problem is that I dont know how to learn!
I mean I also dont think I will ever use calculus or stuff like that but i still gotta learn it to have good grades
I've tried it and I didnt work quite well :/
ALSO I dont have a tutor and I wont ever go to a tutor because they all suck hard here. Everyone I know goes to a tutor and they cant even get more than a C!
Excuses, excuses, excuses. You're not dumb - that's an excuse to help you feel better or not take responsibility. Why do you want good grades? Are you chasing grades or learning? You don't have a tutor because, "everyone I know goes to a tutor and they can't even get more than a C" BS, BS and more BS! Find the students getting A's and ask them to tutor you. Find different tutors. Learning is what our brains do all the time. Right now you're fixated on a particular learning outcome. Stop with the excuses and find a way to solve your challenge. You've had many great examples here and you'll no doubt get more. But stop making excuses.

If you're still reading I'll provide an example from my own life. In order to complete my masters degree in oceanography I had to understand a math subject called, partial differential equations. I was failing miserably and I had every excuse in the book: the professor was no good, my new born was taking all my time, my wife was having an affair (she really was, but that's a different subject), and the list went on. Two days before the final exam I finally shared my concern with a classmate that I knew was getting A's. He spent the next few hours teaching me. Some times it took 3 or 4 attempts to re-explain the principles, but it finally sunk in. I re-did every homework problem and quiz and aced the final exam. I had to get out of my own way, stop making excuses and find a way.

None of us can tell you how to learn, anymore than we can tell each other what product to sell. All we can do is give you examples that have worked for us or others we know. Maybe in those example you'll find an answer. I hope you do.

I may have missed it in the thread, but what is the math subject that is causing you such a challenge?
 

hoponthebop

New Contributor
Apr 16, 2019
37
13
16
Excuses, excuses, excuses. You're not dumb - that's an excuse to help you feel better or not take responsibility. Why do you want good grades? Are you chasing grades or learning? You don't have a tutor because, "everyone I know goes to a tutor and they can't even get more than a C" BS, BS and more BS! Find the students getting A's and ask them to tutor you. Find different tutors. Learning is what our brains do all the time. Right now you're fixated on a particular learning outcome. Stop with the excuses and find a way to solve your challenge. You've had many great examples here and you'll no doubt get more. But stop making excuses.

If you're still reading I'll provide an example from my own life. In order to complete my masters degree in oceanography I had to understand a math subject called, partial differential equations. I was failing miserably and I had every excuse in the book: the professor was no good, my new born was taking all my time, my wife was having an affair (she really was, but that's a different subject), and the list went on. Two days before the final exam I finally shared my concern with a classmate that I knew was getting A's. He spent the next few hours teaching me. Some times it took 3 or 4 attempts to re-explain the principles, but it finally sunk in. I re-did every homework problem and quiz and aced the final exam. I had to get out of my own way, stop making excuses and find a way.

None of us can tell you how to learn, anymore than we can tell each other what product to sell. All we can do is give you examples that have worked for us or others we know. Maybe in those example you'll find an answer. I hope you do.

I may have missed it in the thread, but what is the math subject that is causing you such a challenge?
Read that all. Maybe its excuses but seriously I've tried it all!

Atm its calculus even though I understand the concepts I cant solve problems/exercises
 

AgainstAllOdds

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Dec 26, 2014
1,772
10,355
2,426
27
Chicago, IL
I've tried it and I didnt work quite well :/
Did you follow along with a pencil, calculator and paper?

Basically:

1. See the Problem.
2. If you think you can solve it, then solve it.
3. If you can't solve it, then watch the solution.
4. Rewind to the start of the problem.
5. Try to solve the problem by showing all of your work the exact same way that Sal did. If you can't, then watch the video again. Repeat the process.
6. Move onto the next problem once you solve the previous one and understand it completely.

It's not like you just watch one video and it clicks for you. You need to actually do problems and work through them. The video is there to guide you when you're stuck.

From the looks of it, it seems that you've made this thread so that you have an excuse to fail math, whether that be on purpose or subconscious sabotage ("Oh, I tried everything, so it's not my fault that I suck).

Put the work in. Take out a piece of paper and pencil. Or accept right now that you'll have a bad grade.
 

AgainstAllOdds

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Dec 26, 2014
1,772
10,355
2,426
27
Chicago, IL
Excuses, excuses, excuses. You're not dumb - that's an excuse to help you feel better or not take responsibility.
This. I'm getting the same exact vibe from @hoponthebop.

He wants to trick himself into thinking that he did everything he could. Bullshit. He needs to sit down and put in the hard work of actually solving problems and figuring out where he's stuck; then ironing out what he doesn't know until he knows it.
 

AgainstAllOdds

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Dec 26, 2014
1,772
10,355
2,426
27
Chicago, IL
As someone who always failed maths (I suspect I've maths dyslexia), what is the practical use of maths in the real world?
Your ability to learn a topic is heavily correlated to your "PURPOSE" behind learning it. If you believe that math is pointless, you're not at all likely to learn what you're studying.

You're not math dyslexic, you just don't have a clearly defined purpose and in turn prevent yourself from doing the mental work required to learn. I know because that's how I am with certain science topics. Take biology for example. In high school, I took AP Bio and cheated on every test (the only class that I did that for). I passed the class with a B, but didn't know anything ... except for the plant section. I aced the plant section because I wanted to grow marijuana in my friend's closet, so we learned everything there was to learn about plants. I was an expert. We had a purpose. A dumb one, but we had one.

Look up studies on people that learn languages.

The individuals most likely to learn the language are ones that have a clearly defined purpose for learning the language - typically an upcoming trip.

Your inability to learn math doesn't start at "I have math dyslexia". It starts at you not understanding the benefits of math and why you're studying it. If I were you, I'd start by picking up some "Math for Business Majors" books or similar, and repositioning why there's value in learning. Once you appreciate the topic and create a purpose, then go back to studying.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 25, 2007
6,351
28,195
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
Now your other problem, "Tony's product launched 2 months ago, but he got only one sale. Now he needs to figure out his next course of action before he uses up the remaining $2k in his bank."
Tony has received 1000 visitors on his website, 50 add to carts and 1 sale. What is his next course of action with his remaining $2k ?

Let's add some more information for Tony.
Google CPC averages $.40
Google conversion rate is 2% on CPC
Facebook CPC averages $.85
FB conversion rate is 3% on CPC
Website redesign that may increase his conversion rate by 25% will cost $1000
Profit margins are 50% and his product costs $50.

So @Xeon if Tony told you this and asked what he should do with his $2k, how would you advise him here?



I failed maths in every grade all the way to 19 yrs old where I don't need to take math anymore, but let's analyse this. It took me a while tbh.

Google & FB CPC are at different rates, so let's figure out Google's first:

$0.40 gives 2% conversion. We convert 2% to decimal for easy calculation, so it's 0.02.

$0.40 CPC gives 0.02 conversion
$0.10 CPC gives (0.02 / $0.40) = 0.005
$0.85 CPC gives ((0.005 / 0.10) * $0.85) = 0.0425

0.0425 switch back to % is 4.25%. Therefore we conclude that for each $0.85 / CPC in Google Ads, the conversion rate is 4.25%.

And the FB conversion rate for the same $0.85 is 3%.

Therefore, Tony should continue to scale his Google ads. I would even go as far as to say drop any FB ads he's doing to focus on his Google ads to maximize his ROI.

"Website redesign 25% conversion rate will cost $1000" needs no calculation. He needs to start on that asap to get $$$ in. With increased sales, he might even get more positive reviews, which he can put on his website / social media for more sales.....these factors are outside the realm of maths.

When faced with scenarios like these, have you ever tried to simplify things and "go with your gut instinct"? Or ask the supplier to figure it out for you since you're the client?

Just curious as you're into eComm and some of us here like myself are too.

I find your out of stock example above to be very interesting and don't mind spending an entire afternoon to work it out, but not the Elynn cards type of problem sums we used to get in schools back then.
I'm glad you didn't totally just discount math and my post. My intention was just to show you that problem solving skills are needed all the time and many times you will need to use those math skills that you've learned.

Let's say that you just go with your gut. In my shipping case, if your gut said choose UPS, you would have picked a -$300 choice. The problem isn't that you chose wrong. It's that you would have never known if you were right or wrong. Now imagine you do make that choice 10x in a row in a year. Numbers don't lie.

Now let's look at Tony again.

Google CPC averages $.40
Google conversion rate is 2% on CPC
Facebook CPC averages $.85
FB conversion rate is 3% on CPC
Website redesign that may increase his conversion rate by 25% will cost $1000
Profit margins are 50% and his product sells for $50 (meaning $25 profit per sale).

If Google CPC conversion rate is 2%, that means that 1 out of 50 visitors will buy. And if each click costs $.40 that means that it will cost him $20 (50 x $.40) to get a sale. Each sale makes $25. So running Google PPC nets him $5 per $20 spent. Pretty damn good!

Facebook conversion is 3%, so 1 out of every 33 visitors will buy. So when he spends $28.05 ($.85 x 33) he will lose $3.05. So Facebook PPC is clearly a loser here.

What about the $1000 to improve his website? Currently Tony has a 2% conversion rate, so improving his website will make it 2.5%.

Now his Google PPC looks like this. 1 out of 40 will buy. So every $16 (40 x .40) will net him $5 now. Really good!

So now with his $2000, if he spends all $2000 on Google PPC, he would make $500. If he upgrades his website and then spends the remaining $1000 on Google PPC, he would make $312.50.

BTW, just some background. I have a Master's in Engineering and have taken all sorts of never to be used again math classes. And yes they certainly sucked but, never in my wildest dreams while sitting in a math class did I ever think I would be selling products online 20 years later or calculating ROI on CPC. What they are teaching you isn't math, it's real world problem solving skills. Those skills will translate to anything you do later in life.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 25, 2007
6,351
28,195
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
Read that all. Maybe its excuses but seriously I've tried it all!

Atm its calculus even though I understand the concepts I cant solve problems/exercises
It's all about motivation. Funny how people learn how to add or subtract as soon as they feel like the cashier didn't give them back the right amount of change.

Please post a sample problem here and let's go through your thought process on solving it.
 

hoponthebop

New Contributor
Apr 16, 2019
37
13
16
Did you follow along with a pencil, calculator and paper?

Basically:

1. See the Problem.
2. If you think you can solve it, then solve it.
3. If you can't solve it, then watch the solution.
4. Rewind to the start of the problem.
5. Try to solve the problem by showing all of your work the exact same way that Sal did. If you can't, then watch the video again. Repeat the process.
6. Move onto the next problem once you solve the previous one and understand it completely.

It's not like you just watch one video and it clicks for you. You need to actually do problems and work through them. The video is there to guide you when you're stuck.

From the looks of it, it seems that you've made this thread so that you have an excuse to fail math, whether that be on purpose or subconscious sabotage ("Oh, I tried everything, so it's not my fault that I suck).

Put the work in. Take out a piece of paper and pencil. Or accept right now that you'll have a bad grade.
No man, im not trying to find an excuse. I was about tongive up but imma push through because who will I be if I dont?

There are example exercises on mt book with all the steps. Should I try solve those and then check the steps if i cant and try to understand it?

Or should I just try to solve past papers and try to figure out what i dont know?
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Speedway Pass
Sep 3, 2017
1,098
2,393
562
Singapore
I'm glad you didn't totally just discount math and my post. My intention was just to show you that problem solving skills are needed all the time and many times you will need to use those math skills that you've learned.

Let's say that you just go with your gut. In my shipping case, if your gut said choose UPS, you would have picked a -$300 choice. The problem isn't that you chose wrong. It's that you would have never known if you were right or wrong. Now imagine you do make that choice 10x in a row in a year. Numbers don't lie.

Now let's look at Tony again.

Google CPC averages $.40
Google conversion rate is 2% on CPC
Facebook CPC averages $.85
FB conversion rate is 3% on CPC
Website redesign that may increase his conversion rate by 25% will cost $1000
Profit margins are 50% and his product sells for $50 (meaning $25 profit per sale).

If Google CPC conversion rate is 2%, that means that 1 out of 50 visitors will buy. And if each click costs $.40 that means that it will cost him $20 (50 x $.40) to get a sale. Each sale makes $25. So running Google PPC nets him $5 per $20 spent. Pretty damn good!

Facebook conversion is 3%, so 1 out of every 33 visitors will buy. So when he spends $28.05 ($.85 x 33) he will lose $3.05. So Facebook PPC is clearly a loser here.

What about the $1000 to improve his website? Currently Tony has a 2% conversion rate, so improving his website will make it 2.5%.

Now his Google PPC looks like this. 1 out of 40 will buy. So every $16 (40 x .40) will net him $5 now. Really good!

So now with his $2000, if he spends all $2000 on Google PPC, he would make $500. If he upgrades his website and then spends the remaining $1000 on Google PPC, he would make $312.50.

BTW, just some background. I have a Master's in Engineering and have taken all sorts of never to be used again math classes. And yes they certainly sucked but, never in my wildest dreams while sitting in a math class did I ever think I would be selling products online 20 years later or calculating ROI on CPC. What they are teaching you isn't math, it's real world problem solving skills. Those skills will translate to anything you do later in life.
Thanks for the insight, I never knew one could go so deep into the analysis of numbers that you did, that will be of beneficial value to the survival of a business. I guess I need to take AgainstAllOdd's advice and pick up a book on maths for business majors.
 

ZF Lee

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jul 27, 2016
1,888
3,325
771
20
Malaysia
It's all about motivation. Funny how people learn how to add or subtract as soon as they feel like the cashier didn't give them back the right amount of change.

Please post a sample problem here and let's go through your thought process on solving it.
I hope its a tax question! :)

In my country, apparently the SST tax has more paperwork. More oversight and records to be sent to the officer. Even selling scrap, which are basically residuals from industrial processes, is TAXED. I'm pretty sure there are legal ways to reduce it, but the folks just say no and shake their heads.
 

MJ DeMarco

Raving Lunatic
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 23, 2007
28,269
94,483
3,751
Phoenix, AZ
getUnscripted.com
Math is the language of the universe so it is recommended you know it pretty well. Perhaps not Calculus, but a good understanding of it, like probability, statistics, etc.

As someone who trades options regularly, I use math daily, several times per day. Especially expected value calculations.
 

hoponthebop

New Contributor
Apr 16, 2019
37
13
16
Math is the language of the universe so it is recommended you know it pretty well. Perhaps not Calculus, but a good understanding of it, like probability, statistics, etc.

As someone who trades options regularly, I use math daily, several times per day. Especially expected value calculations.
But how did you learn maths?
 

MJ DeMarco

Raving Lunatic
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 23, 2007
28,269
94,483
3,751
Phoenix, AZ
getUnscripted.com

TheCj

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jan 3, 2017
109
169
153
Ontario, Canada
The beauty of math is that there is a concrete answer and process. So if you find yourself guessing then need to go back and learn so that you know what to do, and not guess.

1. Basically learn concept, process.
2. Solve Problem
3. Check Answer
4. If incorrect find where you deviated
5. Learn what is the correct process and why
6. Attempt again or another problem
7. Repeat till you know

Once you know you don't need to study as hard later since you know.

One key is to make sure you learn/understand as you go. As math then later physics, chemistry all start to merge and build on each other. So you may be able to get through your earlier years not fully understanding. Then as the concepts build on top of the previous will create more trouble moving forward.

Yes you don't need math for day to day life. However applying math concepts, and the various ways of approaching a problem is used by people who can for a reason. It can save or create more time, money and help make better decisions.
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Speedway Pass
Sep 3, 2017
1,098
2,393
562
Singapore
Also guys idfk whata my problem. I aced physics but i struggle with a C in maths
This post from Quora will answer your question: https://qr.ae/TWpYHX

And this post from Reddit:



And this except below from this post might make an interesting read for you and me:
If You Can’t Learn Math, Maybe It’s Not Your Fault : The Art of Non-Conformity



From Wikipedia:

Dyscalculia is characterized by difficulties with common arithmetic tasks. These difficulties may include:
  • Difficulty reading analog clocks[12]
  • Difficulty stating which of two numbers is larger
  • Sequencing issues
  • Inability to comprehend financial planning or budgeting, sometimes even at a basic level; for example, estimating the cost of the items in a shopping basket or balancing a checkbook
  • Inconsistent results in addition, subtraction, multiplication and division
  • Visualizing numbers as meaningless or nonsensical symbols, rather than perceiving them as characters indicating a numerical value (hence the misnomer, "math dyslexia")
  • Difficulty with multiplication, subtraction, addition, and division tables, mental arithmetic, etc.
  • Problems with differentiating between left and right
  • A "warped" sense of spatial awareness, or an understanding of shapes, distance, or volume that seems more like guesswork than actual comprehension
  • Difficulty with time, directions, recalling schedules, sequences of events, keeping track of time, frequently late or early
  • Poor memory (retention and retrieval) of math concepts; may be able to perform math operations one day, but draw a blank the next; may be able to do book work but then fails tests
  • Ability to grasp math on a conceptual level, but an inability to put those concepts into practice
  • Difficulty recalling the names of numbers, or thinking that certain different numbers "feel" the same (e.g. frequently interchanging the same two numbers for each other when reading or recalling them)
  • Difficulty reading musical notation
  • Difficulty with choreographed dance steps
  • Difficulty working backwards in time (e.g. What time to leave if needing to be somewhere at 'X' time)
  • Having particular difficulty mentally estimating the measurement of an object or distance (e.g., whether something is 3 or 6 meters (10 or 20 feet) away)
  • When writing, reading and recalling numbers, mistakes may occur in the areas such as: number additions, substitutions, transpositions, omissions, and reversals
  • Inability to grasp and remember mathematical concepts, rules, formulae, and sequences
  • Inability to concentrate on mentally intensive tasks
  • Mistaken recollection of names, poor name/face retrieval, may substitute names beginning with same letter.[13]
Just play up your strengths.
PS: Out of the 21 symptoms above, I actually have 12 of those lol
 
Last edited:

MJ DeMarco

Raving Lunatic
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 23, 2007
28,269
94,483
3,751
Phoenix, AZ
getUnscripted.com
And how did you study for it?
I can't recall that far ago, but I just remember it was a struggle. Didn't like it at all. And then I went to college and got a finance degree, so go figure.

In the end you just have to do your best and try to grasp the concepts that will serve you in life. That might not be calculus, but it might be simple statistics, ratios, percentages, ROI, that kind of thing.
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post thread…

Search the Forum



Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe to become an INSIDER.

FASTLANE INSIDERS

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.


Top Bottom