This Made Me So Mad

[thinkandgrowrich]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...llecting-student-loans-it-promised-to-forgive

"Shane Satterfield, a roofer who owes more than $30,000 in debt for an associate’s degree in computer science from Corinthian Colleges holds his diploma in Atlanta. "I graduated in April at the top of my class, with honors," says Satterfield, "And I can’t get a job paying over $8.50 an hour."

F*cking ridiculous lol

 

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[jpanarra]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...llecting-student-loans-it-promised-to-forgive

"Shane Satterfield, a roofer who owes more than $30,000 in debt for an associate’s degree in computer science from Corinthian Colleges holds his diploma in Atlanta. "I graduated in April at the top of my class, with honors," says Satterfield, "And I can’t get a job paying over $8.50 an hour."

F*cking ridiculous lol

We all can laugh at this, but the truth is the educational machine is huge and their brainwashing methods are putting this country to its knees. We are told from a young age, if you go to college you will be successful. But they never talk about what to do after you graduate. We spend our time raising our children to be good college students to become employees instead of free thinkers and problem solvers. So when people are graduating, and they're being promised jobs by their universities and parents, when they graduate they expect to be entitled to a job due to 20 years of conditioning. I mean we could kick em to the curb, but the sheer numbers of how many people have crippling student loan debt is crazy.

Its truly up to us, the entrepreneurs and free thinkers to try and reach out to the population and get/give them jobs and keep this economy moving.

 

[Get Right]

I think its funny (not laughing) that we don't teach:

how money really works
how to balance a checkbook
how to invest
how to pick a suitable mate
how to think critically
how to create
how to implement
how to eat healthy
how to avoid harmful things

...but we sure can teach them how to be consumers...of everything...

 

[jpanarra]

I think its funny (not laughing) that we don't teach:

how money really works
how to balance a checkbook
how to invest
how to pick a suitable mate
how to think critically
how to create
how to implement
how to eat healthy
how to avoid harmful things

...but we sure can teach them how to be consumers...of everything...

Yeah, I taught chemistry a few years in High School, the personal finance class was a joke. They taught how to sign a check book and how to get credit cards but nothing about balancing investing, saving. So our education system is teaching them how to use the tools to consume, but not to survive.

 

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[Raoul Duke]

I think its funny (not laughing) that we don't teach:

how money really works
how to balance a checkbook
how to invest
how to pick a suitable mate
how to think critically
how to create
how to implement
how to eat healthy
how to avoid harmful things

...but we sure can teach them how to be consumers...of everything...

 

[jpanarra]

best comic strip ever.

 

[G-Man]

As much as I love criticising people for insanely stupid decisions, part of the problem is that we allow these people to make these huge financial decisions at age 18, after they've spent 12 years in a system that does everything it can to make sure they're still a dysfunctional child at that point. A bit of a tale if you will:

I got accepted into several colleges. One was NYU, my "dream" school which cost 45k/yr and didn't even offer me financial aid because my family made too much money. Another was U of SC, which offered me a great scholarship. Below is the advice I got from various sources.

• HS guidance counselor: NYU is your dream! Pursue your dream! You want to major in finance? Finance graduates from SC earn 35k/year, graduates from NYU make over 60!
• Dad: 150k in debt... that's why all those guys in NY jump off buildings. 35k in SC gets you a downpayment on a house in a couple years. In NY it'll get you a bus ticket.
• Lithuanian Hot dog vendor in NY: That's my numbered spot from the city so I can park my cart. I have to make 70k/yr just to pay for the spot.

I went to SC. Fantastic decision. Unfortunately, not everybody has parents that aren't idiots or enough money from a summer job to buy a plane ticket and talk to a hot dog vendor.

 

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[jpanarra]

HS guidance counselor: NYU is your dream! Pursue your dream! You want to major in finance? Finance graduates from SC earn 35k/year, graduates from NYU make over 60!

This here is the major problem, here we have an 18-year-old kid with his eyes bright and excited about a school he just went and visited. Of course, he's not thinking about money, his life and education has been paid for up to this point. Now here's this professional advisor that works with students and colleges for a living telling him, YOU SHOULD GO FOR IT! How many students fall for that trap, especially if their parents didn't go to college and broke their backs to get their kids in a college because they don't want their kids to suffer the same. But little do they know, they're setting their kids up for failure and possibly more suffering, which is the opposite of what every parent wants to see their kids to go through.

 

[G-Man]

This here is the major problem, here we have an 18-year-old kid with his eyes bright and excited about a school he just went and visited. Of course, he's not thinking about money, his life and education has been paid for up to this point. Now here's this professional advisor that works with students and colleges for a living telling him, YOU SHOULD GO FOR IT! How many students fall for that trap, especially if their parents didn't go to college and broke their backs to get their kids in a college because they don't want their kids to suffer the same. But little do they know, they're setting their kids up for failure and possibly more suffering, which is the opposite of what every parent wants to see their kids to go through.

This is what you get when you have underachieving government employees helping young people make life choices.

 

[ZF Lee]

This here is the major problem, here we have an 18-year-old kid with his eyes bright and excited about a school he just went and visited. Of course, he's not thinking about money, his life and education has been paid for up to this point. Now here's this professional advisor that works with students and colleges for a living telling him, YOU SHOULD GO FOR IT! How many students fall for that trap, especially if their parents didn't go to college and broke their backs to get their kids in a college because they don't want their kids to suffer the same. But little do they know, they're setting their kids up for failure and possibly more suffering, which is the opposite of what every parent wants to see their kids to go through.

I almost fell for that trap!
Some good-talking sales warrior almost got me into Australia for marine engineering.
It may have been a solid industry, but now I can't imagine my life's work be based on such a Slowlane job, trading time for money.
Thank goodness TFF taught me sales and peruasion tactics especially @SinisterLex 's threads on copy....I got introduced to all the weapons they use to rope in 'prey'

Really pathetic. Parents try to push their kids for things they never tried out early in life...is it no better than hypocrisy???

I think that there's a lot of rage on academic bullshit on the forum these days. I'm not sure whether it's the crushing news of student loans or examination crap that influences this movement. I feel that this topic has been discussed quite intensely. Here's the common thread feed to deposit our academic woes.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ege-taught-me-was-how-to-pay-off-loans.44977/

 

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[jpanarra]

Really pathetic. Parents try to push their kids for things they never tried out early in life...is it no better than hypocrisy???

I would never go as far as calling Parents that want the best of their kids as "Pathetic". They only know what they know, they see people in their age demographic, which is more likely to have a better lifestyle if they went to college. So they just followed the simple law of association, successful dude in a big house, he went to college... College=sucess. So i can't really blame them for that sort of rationalization.

Today the world is a very different place for our generation than theirs thanks to the internet and literally infinite networking opportunities. Networking opportunities were the reason why universities were great in the early 90s and back. Now, we have chances to converse with true millionaires and businesspeople free of charge on places like this forum and learn, develop and be mentored.

 

[becks22]

Not everyone needs to go to college and if you do go, you should pick a major with a good ROI. Like other's have said usually you get told to 'follow your dreams' and not be realistic. I once heard a great quote about the pressure of having 18 year olds makes all these decisions.

"We expect an 18 year old to choose a college that is best for them that will define their entire lives but a month ago they had to ask to use the bathroom"

Thankfully I went to community college, worked three jobs to paid for it and besides my last semester paid cash for everything. Only loans I had to take was for my MBA which are now all paid off about 16 months after graduation.

 

[Mattie]

Yeah, I taught chemistry a few years in High School, the personal finance class was a joke. They taught how to sign a check book and how to get credit cards but nothing about balancing investing, saving. So our education system is teaching them how to use the tools to consume, but not to survive.

I have to say, I had a choice of Business Math or Going up the Algebra Ladder and Calculus. I have to say at least some of the Business Math was a bit better than High School. Since I had to take like four classes in Math it did teach me to problem solve.
I believe this is the problem of the century. Pay for a piece of paper that is supposed to help you get somewhere, but frankly, I ended up in Fastlane and saved myself some money by self-teaching. Today, I tell people do the same thing, but they go to school anyway, because they believe that piece of paper is going to do something for them.

 

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[jpanarra]

I have to say, I had a choice of Business Math or Going up the Algebra Ladder and Calculus. I have to say at least some of the Business Math was a bit better than High School. Since I had to take like four classes in Math it did teach me to problem solve.
I believe this is the problem of the century. Pay for a piece of paper that is supposed to help you get somewhere, but frankly, I ended up in Fastlane and saved myself some money by self-teaching. Today, I tell people do the same thing, but they go to school anyway, because they believe that piece of paper is going to do something for them.

Like i said, it's not about the paper IMO, its about networking and meeting people that can really afford college and have resources available to them. I went to college myself and I just zombied on through the classes and got my BS degree. I didn't use the resources that my university provided that I would love o have access to now. That's why I think college can be great, but you have to really know what you're trying to do and improve on. If you're only going for knowledge and classes, just go the Steve jobs route sit in a bunch of classes in the back and watch.

I myself will be graduating with an MBA in a few months, I know for a fact that the TITLE! not the paper will get me into a lot of doors. If I allow that paper hang on the wall, it won't do me anything. I have to bring it with me and show people that i have this knowledge and that will get me paid, not the fact that i took the classes and passed that will get me my ROI.

 

[Get Right]

you should pick a major with a good ROI

If this was mandatory before signing up for a "major" the education system would fix itself overnight...

 

[jpanarra]

If this was mandatory before signing up for a "major" the education system would fix itself overnight...

But the truth is the education system doesn't want to be fixed, bc there's money to be made!!

 

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[Invictus]

My high school was not terribly full of academic overachievers.


A few of us secured full-ride scholarships (pro-tip: You’ll still have to pay some) but the rest did not have such a luxury.


Now. Living in a blue-collar area, you see a lot of people earn a respectable living with the sweat of their brow. Men around there weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty. Backbreaking work wasn’t fun, but it let your wife stay at home, secured you a truck and a small boat, and your kids always had food on the table (and Little Debby Cakes in the cabinet).


Most of my classmates kind of liked this idea of work. They were tired of school and didn’t see much point to it. They wanted to make their money, go hunting, and have some beers.


For many of them, their parents pressed them to go to college. Because what my classmates didn’t see was the stress over the bills, the liberal dosages of ibuprofen because your back was on fire, and the fear that your job may just go ~poof~.


Their parents thought that college was a safeguard against that. For many, their mothers had gotten nursing degrees and were bringing in forty to fifty thousand a year. Parents saw firsthand that a degree could be a godsend.


So, pressure was put on my classmates to attend college.


"That’s stupid. You can’t force an adult to do anything."


Well, you’re right. Except at eighteen, most of us are pretty goddamn stupid. For every 18 year old who finds the forum and starts a business, there’s a hundred others street racing, drinking, and just thinking they’re invincible.


When you have limited life experience, you look to the people who have always had the answers. Your parents.


These people tell you that college can give you a good job. Can provide for you and your future family. These people who have always looked out for you, kept you safe, and had your best interest at heart.


Why would they be wrong?


So, sure. There isn’t a gun put to your head to go to college. But everyone you ever trusted tells you that a degree can give you a comfortable life. Why would you not take that?

 

[jpanarra]

So, sure. There isn’t a gun put to your head to go to college. But everyone you ever trusted tells you that a degree can give you a comfortable life. Why would you not take that?

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[Niptuck MD]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...llecting-student-loans-it-promised-to-forgive

"Shane Satterfield, a roofer who owes more than $30,000 in debt for an associate’s degree in computer science from Corinthian Colleges holds his diploma in Atlanta. "I graduated in April at the top of my class, with honors," says Satterfield, "And I can’t get a job paying over $8.50 an hour."

F*cking ridiculous lol

he is not trying hard enough. first of all, these people go by the book. the world doesnt work that way. you have to be able to break barriers and bend the rules to get what you need.

 

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[Niptuck MD]

blue collar workers remain blue collar for a reason. they do not use their brains. they are good with their hands however as per law of supply and demand, so are 50 million joe the plumbers....

 

[Niptuck MD]

i grew up reading C & H and this one sums up the general populous

 

[jpanarra]

blue collar workers remain blue collar for a reason. they do not use their brains. they are good with their hands however as per law of supply and demand, so are 50 million joe the plumbers....

I disagree with that, there are some "blue-collared" entrepreneurs that are extremely successful and still get their hands dirty. And the whole go to college movement will make the trades jobs much more valuable, we won't have much joe the plumbers in the upcoming years and they'll cost a lot of money because not many people will have the skills such as you said, law of supply and demand. The under-30 crowd have degrees and student loans, but they're above the dirty blue collared workers that charging them 200 dollars an hour to fix their (plumbing, electrical, lawn, -insert dirty job here-) because they went to college. So who's the successful one here?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I think its funny (not laughing) that we don't teach:

how money really works
how to balance a checkbook
how to invest
how to pick a suitable mate
how to think critically
how to create
how to implement
how to eat healthy
how to avoid harmful things

...but we sure can teach them how to be consumers...of everything...

Featured post!

Corinthian Colleges

I believe this college was classified as "predatory" -- basically overpromising and underdelivering. If you ask me, the entire college system is predatory -- and our parents endorse the predation simply because "it's what you do." Really sad.

 

[amp0193]

After 5 years of college, I got a degree. Right out of the gate, I was at the top of my field, earning a "solid" mid 5-figure salary. There was no upward mobility. I started at the top, at age 23. I did that for 3 years.


With free info from the internet, and one $299 course, I learned everything I needed to know to make 3x that salary in a year and a half. In another 5 years, that meager college-degree salary will be so far in the rear view mirror that I won't even remember what life was like to make that little.


The internet has largely rendered college, and education in general, irrelevant. For those that want to learn anything, open Google Chrome and get to it.

 

[G-Man]

I disagree with that, there are some "blue-collared" entrepreneurs that are extremely successful and still get their hands dirty. And the whole go to college movement will make the trades jobs much more valuable, we won't have much joe the plumbers in the upcoming years and they'll cost a lot of money because not many people will have the skills such as you said, law of supply and demand. The under-30 crowd have degrees and student loans, but they're above the dirty blue collared workers that charging them 200 dollars an hour to fix their (plumbing, electrical, lawn, -insert dirty job here-) because they went to college. So who's the successful one here?

Agreed. I'm not sure when it happened... must have been before I was born, but at some point we started looking down on people that provide valuable services. We look down on the plumber, but you don't see anybody that wants shit all over their bathroom floor.

The irony is that this worldview seems to have been propagated by the high school counselor set (sees a kid with intelligence and work ethic and enjoys working with his hands and says: You don't want to "just" work in a machine shop, do you?), and so, some of the most useless people in the world divert young, bright, diligent young people towards career choices that are unproductive and demoralizing.

We all bear the opportunity cost of this: How many amazing new things and processes aren't invented because that kid that was bright and loved his dad's shop went and got himself into 100k in debt so he could be a corporate cog or work for the gov't? And all because some C student with a bullshit "social something" degree convinced him working with his hands would make him grow up to be a loser.

EDIT: I know that was a little bit of a self-righteous rant, but this is what happened to my little brother. He's been in college now for 7 years and still doesn't have a degree. He keeps floating from thing to thing being miserable because he's convinced the stuff he makes in our dad's garage has no value.... even though people buy it from him.... and beg him to make more.....

 

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[Niptuck MD]

I disagree with that, there are some "blue-collared" entrepreneurs that are extremely successful and still get their hands dirty. And the whole go to college movement will make the trades jobs much more valuable, we won't have much joe the plumbers in the upcoming years and they'll cost a lot of money because not many people will have the skills such as you said, law of supply and demand. The under-30 crowd have degrees and student loans, but they're above the dirty blue collared workers that charging them 200 dollars an hour to fix their (plumbing, electrical, lawn, -insert dirty job here-) because they went to college. So who's the successful one here?

not sure how it is in indiana, but here in the south, there is no shortages of electricians and plumbers, and more and more "illegal labour" is available thus causing "competitiveness" in which Peter Thiel says is not a good state; price elasticity of demand diminishes and thus more labour is there so the labourers are battling for the cheapest bids just to eat....

 

[Niptuck MD]

Trust me; i intially went the vo-tech route; i got a union gig with the CTA (chicago transit authority) but the union folded (shortage of funds and work from 2007-2012) an utter disgrace; there are no more apprenticeship programs; every kid now enrolls (often with debt or merit aid) into community colleges and pays for some BASIC (i mean primer basic) trade skills. The root cause is the lack of vocational school funding and apprenticeships;

 

[Niptuck MD]

the fact of the matter is the blue collar jobs are not going to be here for long; they will either be replaced with illegal labour or automated; supply will rise and demand will diminish; right now as we speak plumbers and electricians and even welders (unless you weld pipe out in texas, oklahoma overseas etc) are BATTLING tooth and nail for anywhere between 13-20$ per hour. Now some may deem this as good money; but often times these people are in debt as well; Auto mechanics starting out are only making 12-15$ hr with school debt and tool debt not lucrative;

Diesel mechanics and again those outlier welders are doing well; there are opportunities out there but they require a lot of jumping around just to get them.

 

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[Niptuck MD]

Featured post!



I believe this college was classified as "predatory" -- basically overpromising and underdelivering. If you ask me, the entire college system is predatory -- and our parents endorse the predation simply because "it's what you do." Really sad.

wholeheartedly agree sir.

colleges are a 99% joke; i have received a better education from the local public library as well as on youtube and on amazon.com and audible then one could imagine;

I would actually go out on a limb and say that of ALL The professors in higher academia only about 10% are qualified in the Technical and business fields; And I am being quite generous. The number is probably even lower; studentsreviews aside, after being in and out of school and grad school i can effectively say that the "cheapness and cheap quality of labour " has entered the realm of academia; For example; engineering students in america get phased out not by lack of interest, but because of poor instruction due to poor professors teaching quality; more than half of all engineering professors are from overseas and i wonder how they passed the TOEFL's. I believe all professors should pass an oral qualification prior to even teaching;

Nothing against their intellect or theoretical skills whatsoever; these professors are not solving problems and are not fostering a thinking creative environment unlike the nordic countries where they do that from elementary education upwards.

 

[Brian C.]

In high school, I was fortunate to attend a $50k boarding school in the Northeast on scholarship. My largest class had 10 students, while my smallest class had 4 (including me). I lived with royalty (literally), would wake up in the morning, grab breakfast, maybe golf a couple holes, and then would go learn how to invest in the stock market or how capitalism works and why money isn't bad.

It was the best education I ever received. The irony? We were in no way affiliated with state mandated education requirements.

The state university I chose was the "best" least-expensive option on my list ($20k per year). There were some classes that blew my mind. One course was titled: "Leadership & Networking," and was a course for entrepreneurs that focused on Dale Carnegie's "How To Win Friends & Influence People." I also TA'd an entrepreneurship class, where our professor would bring in successful entrepreneurs to speak and arrange for us to get drinks with them afterwards.

But with the good, came the bad.

I've had classes where "safe spaces" were a legitimate thing (still funny to me). I've had professors who claimed money is the root of all evil. There was one professor who taught a course based on everything "wrong in the world" (pollution, capitalism, globalization, big business), yet he spent his entire career dictating problems for the impressionable youth instead of seeking any resolution himself.

It's easy to point the finger and claim the education system is "broken" and "useless," yet I find it's easier to open up the web browser or a book and educate yourself. Education is highly subjective/respective of circumstance.

I have no sympathy for the OP. Perhaps the issue isn't the education system, but the entitled nature of students who feel like the world owes them something for graduating college.

"I graduated at the top of my class, with honors." - guess the market doesn't care too much, huh Shane?