The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

OFF-TOPIC They want to amend the IL constitution to eAT tHE rICH

Remove ads while supporting the Unscripted philosophy...become an INSIDER.

Status
Not open for further replies.

ryandoak

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Aug 1, 2018
38
42
109
21
South Ogden, Utah
When I first read this thread, my first thought was, "Whew, glad I live in Arizona, that would never happen here."

Boy was I wrong.



I've been in AZ for 23 years. Pretty much loved every year.

However this year something changed. We noticed it was the first year ever in 2+ decades that we considered to leave, at least the metro area. Between the traffic, the air quality, the shift in politics, the CV19 overreach, we started discussing it. The state has been infected with same disease that is killing Texas, and that disease is called California. And get this, our governor, senate, and house are controlled by Republicans, so this isn't just about left-wing ideology. And now after learning of this prop, the writing is on the wall, at least if it passes. I found it of a bit "prophetic" (and shocking) that such a proposition even made it to the ballot-- Arizona tends to stop these ridiculous things from making it to the ballot -- but insightful that our ideas about leaving were not unfounded.

I left Chicago 23 years ago for the same freaking reason, aside from lack of sunshine -- and it was the best decision I ever made in my life. At this point, I'm not even sure how Arizona can survive when it comes to the water supply. I live in a farming type area with horses, chickens and even cattle. When I leave my neighborhood, it's bumper to bumper traffic. It's a bit of an odd mix to feel like you're in the country, but gridlock is everywhere as soon as you leave the fields behind.

The good news is, I expect the proposition to be defeated. I have faith that Arizonians are smart and not stupid enough to fall for the "it's for the children" narrative. I refuse to be forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars for an "education system" which teaches children that people like me, are the enemy -- and I should be punished accordingly. It's like being forced to fund the gallows for which I will be hung.

Nope.

I'll move to Costa Rica or the middle of Montana before I willingly accept that BS. And I'll be gloriously happy with the decision -- when you have a cancerous tumor, you remove it...

...in this case, you leave it.
I was considering moving to Arizona. Should I reconsider? Florida's starting to look better as each day passes.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

James Klymus

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 28, 2018
351
1,224
357
25
Chicago, Illinois
This. The U.S school system is so laughably bad; it's a stretch to even call it education at this point. I don't think it's conspiracy, I think it's just incompetence. Socialism inherently appeals to the ignorant, uneducated and lower class.

There's never been a better time for privatized education. We have the technology and teachers. Use the best teachers, videos, graphics, powerpoints, worksheets. Why settle for mediocre and bloated school systems? Anyone with an internet connection should have access to a QUALITY education, irrespective of where they live.

Things started to go downhill when we stopped following the Greek and Roman models and those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Well a lot of people here in America seem to be against school choice and private education. I wonder why? Maybe because it's become an indoctrination not an education.
 

WJK

Platinum Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 9, 2017
1,195
2,784
657
Nikiski, Alaska
So uh.. I just got this as a pamphlet in the mail, they want to change the flat rate income tax in IL to be able to randomly assign a tax rate to "the wealthy" and the arguments "pro-change" they give....... it's like Bernie wrote it. Idk, you be the judge. Somewhere in a deep forest a bald eagle loses a feather (?)
@Kak


Those who aren't successful, hate those who are. When I was young and working very hard, while I got my education, they said I needed to get a life. I was stupid to work so hard. And I didn't need higher education -- just an Mrs. degree (marrying the right man). When I was in middle years, they told me that I was just lucky to have a good career and my life on track. They were blown away that I had it together and they didn't. They didn't connect my hard work and education with that success. Now that I am retired and enjoying the fruits of my labors, they really want to tax me to point that I must give it all back. They want their share. Uh? Where were they when I was work, saving and investing?
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
6,555
28,402
4,554
Well a lot of people here in America seem to be against school choice and private education. I wonder why? Maybe because it's become an indoctrination not an education.

I couldn't care less about public policy concerning "education." My only opinion is that they should be honest and rename it to obedience training and conditioning.

If my kids learn from me, of course, the world will label it "indoctrination." I call what public schools are doing "indoctrination."

Go look up and read the pledge of allegiance. My kids aren't saying that shit. I can't believe I did without thought.

They'll all say it is privilege that my kids got to learn from me. SO WHAT? Parents should be responsible to, and set examples for, their children. We don't have kids to create wards of the state. Identical drones of parroted statism. Why even have kids if this is what parenting is about?

They will be fortunate enough to be born into a home that believes in freedom and self-education. It is part of the legacy I can share. God only knows if my kids will ever be allowed to be my financial beneficiaries. If that is going to be how it goes, they damn sure will benefit from my name.

The question lies with who is right and who is wrong. Freedom, my friends, is right. No argument. You believe in freedom or you're wrong.

All of this said, my kids will never set foot in a public school building, which the mere existence of, churns my stomach.

Stupidity is the reason for the world's problems. Assumed and default education is the reason for stupidity.
 
Last edited:

BizyDad

Know Thyself
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 7, 2019
642
2,309
539
Phoenix AZ
I couldn't care less about public policy concerning "education." My only opinion is that they should be honest and rename it to obedience training and conditioning.

If my kids learn from me, of course, the world will label it "indoctrination." I call what public schools are doing "indoctrination."

Go look up and read the pledge of allegiance. My kids aren't saying that shit. I can't believe I did without thought.

They'll all say it is privilege that my kids got to learn from me. SO WHAT? Parents should be responsible for their kids. We don't have kids to create wards of the state.

They will be fortunate enough to be born into a home that believes in freedom and self-education. It is part of the legacy I can share. God only knows if my kids will ever be allowed to be my financial beneficiaries. If that is going to be how it goes, they damn sure will benefit from my name.

The question lies with who is right and who is wrong. Freedom, my friends, is right. No argument. You believe in freedom or you're wrong.

All of this said, my kids will never set foot in a public school building, which the mere existence of, churns my stomach.

Stupidity is the reason for the world's problems. Assumed and default education is the reason for stupidity.

View: https://youtu.be/YR5ApYxkU-U
 

WJK

Platinum Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 9, 2017
1,195
2,784
657
Nikiski, Alaska
I couldn't care less about public policy concerning "education." My only opinion is that they should be honest and rename it to obedience training and conditioning.

If my kids learn from me, of course, the world will label it "indoctrination." I call what public schools are doing "indoctrination."

Go look up and read the pledge of allegiance. My kids aren't saying that shit. I can't believe I did without thought.

They'll all say it is privilege that my kids got to learn from me. SO WHAT? Parents should be responsible to, and set examples for, their children. We don't have kids to create wards of the state. Identical drones of parroted statism. Why even have kids if this is what parenting is about?

They will be fortunate enough to be born into a home that believes in freedom and self-education. It is part of the legacy I can share. God only knows if my kids will ever be allowed to be my financial beneficiaries. If that is going to be how it goes, they damn sure will benefit from my name.

The question lies with who is right and who is wrong. Freedom, my friends, is right. No argument. You believe in freedom or you're wrong.

All of this said, my kids will never set foot in a public school building, which the mere existence of, churns my stomach.

Stupidity is the reason for the world's problems. Assumed and default education is the reason for stupidity.
Do you have kids? If so, are they school age?

Yes, public schools haven't changed much in many years. And the educational establishment has a vested interest in keeping it going on in the future. The system was built to supply compliant workers to the industrial age. Being on time and finishing assigned tasks, determined by a chain of command, was important to the keeping the production lines moving in Americans. They needed workers who could read instructions and follow them without question. It wasn't stupid -- it was pragmatic. This was in contrast to the archetype of the rough, individualist American who tamed the wilderness. The life skills were completely different.
.
My maternal grandparents each only had about 3 years of school. They prized education because their lives were restricted to doing only physical work due to their lack of education. On the other hand, my dad's family were very educated and were community leaders in their part of the world. (Yes, my mother was stunning blond who was also smart.) My parents spent their lives going to school and improving their lot in life. And so have I. I got the message early. When I was young, higher education was one of the only paths leading to women becoming financially independent.

Now, education and information is available at my finger tips on the net. It's a whole new world. There is home schooling, on-line degrees, blogs, streaming podcasts TED talks, audio books, Indie book writers, and a whole host of ways to gain knowledge. How about a forum where we talk about our business challenges and get immediate feedback from others climbing the same or a similar mountain? For us who love to learn, it's like being a kid in a candy store...
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
30,818
113,646
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
I was considering moving to Arizona. Should I reconsider?

I can't make that decision for you, it's a highly personal one. But that said, I'll take Arizona any day over some big city... it has a lot of pluses, if it didn't, I wouldn't have spent half my life here. I'm almost looking at this potential move as Chapter 3 in my life; Chapter 1 was Chicago, Chapter 2 was Arizona, and Chapter 3, the final phase, is ????

Now, education and information is available at my finger tips on the net. It's a whole new world. There is home schooling, on-line degrees, blogs, streaming podcasts TED talks, audio books, Indie book writers, and a whole host of ways to gain knowledge. How about a forum where we talk about our business challenges and get immediate feedback from others climbing the same or a similar mountain? For us who love to learn, it's like being a kid in a candy store...

Amen!
 

BellaPippin

B is for Beast
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2015
1,190
2,862
677
31
Chicago, IL
Well, I just learned today that Arizona has its own "soak the rich" plan.

If Proposition 208 passes in Arizona it will be my last year as having Arizona as my primary residence. I will move. Prop 208 is basically a tax on the rich, compliments of the socialist idiots that have moved here, and the teacher's unions. If it passes, it will make Arizona one of the highest taxed states in the country, at least for people like me.

If it passes, I leave.

It is that simple.

View attachment 34957

The resemblance of this ballot with the "sign up for our newsletter!" pop up window and the comment to close the window being "no thanks, I don't want to save 20%"/"No thanks, I love paying full price"

Might as well have written "A "NO" vote means you are the problem, we hate you, you filthy rich, you're the cause of all the state's problems"
 

BellaPippin

B is for Beast
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2015
1,190
2,862
677
31
Chicago, IL
I quoted the Bible and Spiderman, so it not like I was espousing any grand economic theory.

This is even funnier taken out of context
 

xmartel

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Jul 22, 2008
112
280
193
Canada, eh!
Because you (de jure) benefit from the protection and laws of the state. Human beings without government would kill, and steal from each other indiscriminately. Not many people would willingly live in an area where no rules exist. Human nature is brutal, violent, and self destructive. If some viking came around burned my house, and jacked my stuff I'd pay a dude (the state) to protect my property.

The problem with the state these days is the social contract (de facto) is being broken on many levels. It's losing it's legitimacy through incompetence and mismanagement, in some ways like a failed state.

It'd be nice if we didn't have to pay taxes but it's a necessary evil. I have a bigger problem with government incompetence.

Taxation is necessary and I think most people support it. I certainly enjoy the comforts of modern life that taxes help pay for.

But there are different types of taxation and how it is administered. We can't just say it's necessary, so it isn't theft, so we just have to live with it.

Taxing income, property taxes, etc. is theft. You are forced to pay by threat of force. Not to mention they are terribly unfair inefficient systems that are completely broken.

A consumption tax on the other hand is voluntary. It's also an incredibly efficient tax. Imagine no one ever having to file an income tax return again?
Quite a few economists estimate that the efficiencies in the system would result in the price of goods and services dropping up to 30%.

I also suggest people read The Magic Formula by Nathan Lewis. It doesn't push a consumption tax, but it does goes pretty deep into the data from hundreds of years of history behind low and high taxation, amongst other things, and it's affect on the economy.
@BizyDad you in particular might enjoy this book.
 

Cyberthal

Contributor
Apr 14, 2020
59
75
113
Shenzhen
Rulers should tax the borders. It's their job to watch them and search and hassle people crossing them anyway. Inserting the Fed's proboscis into everyone's business is accepted in the same way that other grossly hierarchical societies were accepted by their subjects.

Border taxes encourage community self-sufficiency, which is good. Subsidiarity works. That's why your body is made of cells and organs, instead of the brain running each mitochondria.

The USA is in the process of rediscovering internal borders. After enough random politically-sanctioned acts of violence by transient strangers, folks will decide that maybe it's best to know thy neighbor from thy invader.

But in order to get from here to there, one needs a dark age first! The fall of the Soviet Union was Very Exciting, but I think the USA's will be even Bigger, especially since there will be No Globo-cop to pick up the pieces this time! I really can't wait to see human nature reassert itself after its stint under the stultifying New York Times. What happens to Mutually Assured Destruction when the guy with his finger on the button goes MAD? The Russians loved their children too, but do the Boomers? One doubts it.

Everyone talks about Soviet Communist insanity, but the worst of that ended with Stalin, pre-nukes. We live in the truly exciting time of the first nuclear superpower entering a terminal Left singularity. This could really accelerate the global decline in wildlife fauna in the short term, but Chernobyl indicates that Nature is better than Man at tolerating the high-rad lifestyle! Stock up on vodka, just in case.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

MrTrash757

Resident Trash Panda
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 31, 2020
202
236
154
Grand Rapids, MI
So glad I left IL for MI last year. I can list out many reasons why I left, but the biggest is nature is awesome here.

Every time I go back, I feel like I am going to get taxed to breathe.

Before COVID hit , I had recruiters begging me to move back.

Edit: I just read the proposed amendment and I love how they harp on “We want to lower taxes for the lower and middle class”, yeah, when pigs fly....
 
Last edited:

LuckyPup

Done Dicking Around
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 2, 2012
513
799
316
Midwest USA
So uh.. I just got this as a pamphlet in the mail, they want to change the flat rate income tax in IL to be able to randomly assign a tax rate to "the wealthy" and the arguments "pro-change" they give....... it's like Bernie wrote it. Idk, you be the judge. Somewhere in a deep forest a bald eagle loses a feather (?)
@Kak


I was born and raised in IL. My sister and bother-in-law still do. He recently called IL a "great state." I asked him what was great about it, and his canned reply was something about "Lincoln, breadbasket of America, blah-blah-blah." I asked what makes it great NOW. Crickets.

Dunno why anyone would still live there. Get out now!
 

LuckyPup

Done Dicking Around
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 2, 2012
513
799
316
Midwest USA
Rulers should tax the borders. It's their job to watch them and search and hassle people crossing them anyway. Inserting the Fed's proboscis into everyone's business is accepted in the same way that other grossly hierarchical societies were accepted by their subjects.

Border taxes encourage community self-sufficiency, which is good. Subsidiarity works. That's why your body is made of cells and organs, instead of the brain running each mitochondria.

The USA is in the process of rediscovering internal borders. After enough random politically-sanctioned acts of violence by transient strangers, folks will decide that maybe it's best to know thy neighbor from thy invader.

But in order to get from here to there, one needs a dark age first! The fall of the Soviet Union was Very Exciting, but I think the USA's will be even Bigger, especially since there will be No Globo-cop to pick up the pieces this time! I really can't wait to see human nature reassert itself after its stint under the stultifying New York Times. What happens to Mutually Assured Destruction when the guy with his finger on the button goes MAD? The Russians loved their children too, but do the Boomers? One doubts it.

Everyone talks about Soviet Communist insanity, but the worst of that ended with Stalin, pre-nukes. We live in the truly exciting time of the first nuclear superpower entering a terminal Left singularity. This could really accelerate the global decline in wildlife fauna in the short term, but Chernobyl indicates that Nature is better than Man at tolerating the high-rad lifestyle! Stock up on vodka, just in case.
Proboscis is SUCH an appropriate word!
 

ryandoak

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Aug 1, 2018
38
42
109
21
South Ogden, Utah
Rulers should tax the borders. It's their job to watch them and search and hassle people crossing them anyway. Inserting the Fed's proboscis into everyone's business is accepted in the same way that other grossly hierarchical societies were accepted by their subjects.

Border taxes encourage community self-sufficiency, which is good. Subsidiarity works. That's why your body is made of cells and organs, instead of the brain running each mitochondria.

The USA is in the process of rediscovering internal borders. After enough random politically-sanctioned acts of violence by transient strangers, folks will decide that maybe it's best to know thy neighbor from thy invader.

But in order to get from here to there, one needs a dark age first! The fall of the Soviet Union was Very Exciting, but I think the USA's will be even Bigger, especially since there will be No Globo-cop to pick up the pieces this time! I really can't wait to see human nature reassert itself after its stint under the stultifying New York Times. What happens to Mutually Assured Destruction when the guy with his finger on the button goes MAD? The Russians loved their children too, but do the Boomers? One doubts it.

Everyone talks about Soviet Communist insanity, but the worst of that ended with Stalin, pre-nukes. We live in the truly exciting time of the first nuclear superpower entering a terminal Left singularity. This could really accelerate the global decline in wildlife fauna in the short term, but Chernobyl indicates that Nature is better than Man at tolerating the high-rad lifestyle! Stock up on vodka, just in case.
What the f*ck are you talking about?
 

Kevin88660

Gold Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Feb 8, 2019
1,147
1,184
365
Singapore
The business oligarch that take in billion dollar subsidy, gov contracts, grants I think it is the main issue. You cannot tax your way out of a spending problem.

Apple is going to park its money in Ireland and paying less tax than it should...if not there will would be more money spent on Military contractors blowing up used jeeps to claim reimbursement+profit.

More tax dollar thrown at a corrupt game is not going to solve the problem. The system needs to be cleaned up first.
 

BellaPippin

B is for Beast
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2015
1,190
2,862
677
31
Chicago, IL
I was born and raised in IL. My sister and bother-in-law still do. He recently called IL a "great state." I asked him what was great about it, and his canned reply was something about "Lincoln, breadbasket of America, blah-blah-blah." I asked what makes it great NOW. Crickets.

Dunno why anyone would still live there. Get out now!

I've just always liked the city since I moved here, I guess since my involvement in this things is less than appropriate that's why I've never given it thought. My knowledge on these matters are pretty limited, not going to lie; it's also kind of difficult to find a "IL for dummies" or pretty much anything that wouldn't be biased. I'm also biased unintentionally because I moved here 10 years ago, and in comparison to my run down country I live like a queen here, modest income and everything.

That said my boyfriend has kids and they live here so moving isn't an option, at least for now. But he does have family in NM and I've asked him if he could pick to move somewhere he'd like to go where his dad is. But it wouldn't be an option until kids are grown up. As for me again I just don't mind. I like where I live.

THIS IS GRAND AND STATE. DOORS OPEN ON THE RIGHT, AT GRAND AND STATE.
 

Cyberthal

Contributor
Apr 14, 2020
59
75
113
Shenzhen
> What the f*ck are you talking about?

It's all just a little bit of HISTORY REPEATING


Anyway, history is nothing more than the basic sociopolitics present in chimp and bonobo troupes, scaled. Which means alternation between the patriarchal and matriarchal principle. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

EDIT:
Aha, I was thinking of Strauss-Howe generational theory:

The spiral is good in general but obviously the last "Winter" period is incorrectly labeled, we're still in "Autumn" and on the cusp of a disaster comparable to Great Depression+WWII or the American Civil War. I suppose we might get lucky with an American Revolution, Glorious Revolution or Armada Crisis, but the history of mass migration argues against it. Do you feel lucky?
 
Last edited:

WabiSabi

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Sep 2, 2019
54
124
121
Katy, Texas
> What the f*ck are you talking about?

It's all just a little bit of HISTORY REPEATING


Anyway, history is nothing more than the basic sociopolitics present in chimp and bonobo troupes, scaled. Which means alternation between the patriarchal and matriarchal principle. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

EDIT:
Aha, I was thinking of Strauss-Howe generational theory:

The spiral is good in general but obviously the last "Winter" period is incorrectly labeled, we're still in "Autumn" and on the cusp of a disaster comparable to Great Depression+WWII or the American Civil War. I suppose we might get lucky with an American Revolution, Glorious Revolution or Armada Crisis, but the history of mass migration argues against it. Do you feel lucky?

Man, that stuff is just a load of pseudoscience BS, Just read Plato's Republic, specifically book VIII. No need to reinvent the wheel on some of this stuff, just stick to the classics.
 

Cyberthal

Contributor
Apr 14, 2020
59
75
113
Shenzhen
Anacyclosis is equally "pseudoscience". The USA's de-facto ochlocracy presages the return of kings. For all the Trump Derangement Syndrome, the man barely has any control over the presidency, much less the country. He can't compare to King Putin.

It is arbitrary to accept anacyclosis and reject other equally evident historical models.

The trouble, as Machiavelli observed, is that a degenerate people such as the USA, deluded that they possess and deserve liberty, proudly rejects the supposed tyranny of kingship, and therefore requires extensive humiliation and horrific suffering before willing to advance to the next spoke of anacyclosis' wheel.

Not to worry however. The credentialed political scientist Francis Fukuyama assures us that history has ended and mass migration definitely doesn't equal war!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
FEATURED! Introducing... WEALTH EXPO$ED, A Short Story By MJ DeMarco
Hi Mj, I just bought it. And reading it. I think is a great idea to write using the stories to...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Fox Web School "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2020
Great post @Fox, very much appreciated! How can I reach out to you? I sent you a PM a while...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
Hey @Lex DeVille ! Having some issues with the NOREGRETS code? Udemy thinks it has expired...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Grow Your Business With a Book (An Unorthodox Marketing Strategy That Built One of the Largest...
Are you looking for a new, lesser-known but potentially very lucrative source of leads to your...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Just got off the phone with @LightHouse. Having just a 45 minute conversation with him has...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Kill Bigger Incubator
@Kak Thanks for the reply. Whats interesting is that I have an idea that's been cooking which...



Forum Sponsor

sponsor

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom