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Taking Steps into the Mobile App Business

A topic related to SAAS or APPs

Ayanle Farah

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Alright guys, this is my first thread here. I made sure to do my due diligence before making this because I don't want to waste anyone's time.

After reading the gold threads(not everything) and seeing the debates of coding mobile apps vs outsourcing, I've decided to learn programming, I understand becoming really proficient at it could take years and that's not my goal.

I want to learn the basics so I can build an MVP, get it validated, sell and invest profit into hiring developers to improve existing features of the app.

I don't have alot of money to burn so this seems like a cost-efficient way and it won't consume much of my time, from what I gather here, the learning curve shouldn't be more than a few months.

That's also what I'm here to ask the veterans, should I learn Objective C or Swift?

Also could someone please explain to me what X-code is and how it fits into all of this?

A more accurate question: If you were me, what would you do?
 
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OverByte

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Alright guys, this is my first thread here. I made sure to do my due diligence before making this because I don't want to waste anyone's time.

After reading the gold threads(not everything) and seeing the debates of coding mobile apps vs outsourcing, I've decided to learn programming, I understand becoming really proficient at it could take years and that's not my goal.

I want to learn the basics so I can build an MVP, get it validated, sell and invest profit into hiring developers to improve existing features of the app.

I don't have alot of money to burn so this seems like a cost-efficient way and it won't consume much of my time, from what I gather here, the learning curve shouldn't be more than a few months.

That's also what I'm here to ask the veterans, should I learn Objective C or Swift?

Also could someone please explain to me what X-code is and how it fits into all of this?

A more accurate question: If you were me, what would you do?

Hands down Swift for an iOS app. If Objective C was great why would Apple create a new language ;)

If you are new to programming you will almost certainly run into less bugs and be faster with swift.

There are a few reasons for this, but not having to deal with header files would be enough to sway me. Another big one is compile time type safety. Obj-C you pass arrays like NSArray* and then have to type check them when you use them. In Swift you declare the array like [Int], then there is no way you jam a String into that array by accident. Obj-C doesn't protect against this and will throw a runtime exception which will likely crash your app. In my opinion the syntax (Obj-C) is also awful with all the square brackets, semi-colons and other stuff that more modern languages have abandoned. Swift is actively being developed and improved, has a passionate following yada yada. I really don't see any reason to learn Obj-C right now if you know neither language.

Now in terms of learning, I actually posted in the App Developer AMA my thoughts on how newbies should learn. But this is only my advice based on my experience and how I learned, the mistakes I made, etc.

I think it's great you have a clear goal to construct an MVP. I would suggest that you start with a Udemy or other *paid* course, one with a lot of good reviews. I think you'll save alot of time here instead of sifting through tons of free tutorials, find a course that takes you from concept to simple app. Ideally you can find a course producing a project that is somewhat similar to what you want to build. Ie if you want to build a game find a course building a game not a stock ticker app.

Once you have completed your sample project, start your MVP. Keep it MVP, keep is simple, break the app into discrete chunks of functionality (ie features) like Login, Register, Pull Stock Information From API, Show All Stocks, Search Stocks, Share Stocks, Save Favourite Stocks.

For each item break down further what you need to do. Ie for Pull Stocks From API you will likely need to be able to process a REST API. So google "swift rest api". For showing stocks you will want to develop a tableview, say you want to sort, just google "swift sort tableview". It will be slow going if you don't have programming experience but you will build momentum quickly. In my experience the best way is to just start and find help (ie google) each step of the way.

Where this is your first app you may even end up tossing it and re-writing it for your MVP. All part of progress. Don't get discouraged.

If you run into problems, post here. Also Stack Overflow is your friend, you'll become very familiar with it.
 

Scot

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Hands down Swift for an iOS app. If Objective C was great why would Apple create a new language ;)

If you are new to programming you will almost certainly run into less bugs and be faster with swift.

There are a few reasons for this, but not having to deal with header files would be enough to sway me. Another big one is compile time type safety. Obj-C you pass arrays like NSArray* and then have to type check them when you use them. In Swift you declare the array like [Int], then there is no way you jam a String into that array by accident. Obj-C doesn't protect against this and will throw a runtime exception which will likely crash your app. In my opinion the syntax (Obj-C) is also awful with all the square brackets, semi-colons and other stuff that more modern languages have abandoned. Swift is actively being developed and improved, has a passionate following yada yada. I really don't see any reason to learn Obj-C right now if you know neither language.

Now in terms of learning, I actually posted in the App Developer AMA my thoughts on how newbies should learn. But this is only my advice based on my experience and how I learned, the mistakes I made, etc.

I think it's great you have a clear goal to construct an MVP. I would suggest that you start with a Udemy or other *paid* course, one with a lot of good reviews. I think you'll save alot of time here instead of sifting through tons of free tutorials, find a course that takes you from concept to simple app. Ideally you can find a course producing a project that is somewhat similar to what you want to build. Ie if you want to build a game find a course building a game not a stock ticker app.

Once you have completed your sample project, start your MVP. Keep it MVP, keep is simple, break the app into discrete chunks of functionality (ie features) like Login, Register, Pull Stock Information From API, Show All Stocks, Search Stocks, Share Stocks, Save Favourite Stocks.

For each item break down further what you need to do. Ie for Pull Stocks From API you will likely need to be able to process a REST API. So google "swift rest api". For showing stocks you will want to develop a tableview, say you want to sort, just google "swift sort tableview". It will be slow going if you don't have programming experience but you will build momentum quickly. In my experience the best way is to just start and find help (ie google) each step of the way.

Where this is your first app you may even end up tossing it and re-writing it for your MVP. All part of progress. Don't get discouraged.

If you run into problems, post here. Also Stack Overflow is your friend, you'll become very familiar with it.


Great response. I didn't understand half of it but it sounds smart! Haha Rep++

I believe this is the thread you were referencing. https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/app-developer.58250/
 

OverByte

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Ayanle Farah

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Hands down Swift for an iOS app. If Objective C was great why would Apple create a new language ;)

If you are new to programming you will almost certainly run into less bugs and be faster with swift.

There are a few reasons for this, but not having to deal with header files would be enough to sway me. Another big one is compile time type safety. Obj-C you pass arrays like NSArray* and then have to type check them when you use them. In Swift you declare the array like [Int], then there is no way you jam a String into that array by accident. Obj-C doesn't protect against this and will throw a runtime exception which will likely crash your app. In my opinion the syntax (Obj-C) is also awful with all the square brackets, semi-colons and other stuff that more modern languages have abandoned. Swift is actively being developed and improved, has a passionate following yada yada. I really don't see any reason to learn Obj-C right now if you know neither language.

Now in terms of learning, I actually posted in the App Developer AMA my thoughts on how newbies should learn. But this is only my advice based on my experience and how I learned, the mistakes I made, etc.

I think it's great you have a clear goal to construct an MVP. I would suggest that you start with a Udemy or other *paid* course, one with a lot of good reviews. I think you'll save alot of time here instead of sifting through tons of free tutorials, find a course that takes you from concept to simple app. Ideally you can find a course producing a project that is somewhat similar to what you want to build. Ie if you want to build a game find a course building a game not a stock ticker app.

Once you have completed your sample project, start your MVP. Keep it MVP, keep is simple, break the app into discrete chunks of functionality (ie features) like Login, Register, Pull Stock Information From API, Show All Stocks, Search Stocks, Share Stocks, Save Favourite Stocks.

For each item break down further what you need to do. Ie for Pull Stocks From API you will likely need to be able to process a REST API. So google "swift rest api". For showing stocks you will want to develop a tableview, say you want to sort, just google "swift sort tableview". It will be slow going if you don't have programming experience but you will build momentum quickly. In my experience the best way is to just start and find help (ie google) each step of the way.

Where this is your first app you may even end up tossing it and re-writing it for your MVP. All part of progress. Don't get discouraged.

If you run into problems, post here. Also Stack Overflow is your friend, you'll become very familiar with it.
I've enrolled in a Udemy course teaching how to build iPhone apps using Swift.

I'm also in the process of buying a mac, what mac computer would you recommend? Are there any cheap options?
 

OverByte

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I've enrolled in a Udemy course teaching how to build iPhone apps using Swift.

I'm also in the process of buying a mac, what mac computer would you recommend? Are there any cheap options?

Not many cheap options for mac. I'd suggest go with a Macbook Pro over the other options. If this is going to be a dev machine it's well worth it (though the Pros are very expensive). I have an air and a pro. XCode can get sluggish on the Air (2013 model).

My advice would be to see if anyone is selling a used one (my pref would be Macbook Pro - 2015, 15in). Ideally if you can find one that is still under warranty I believe Apple transfers the warranty to new owner, you don't need original receipts (you may want to confirm that though).

If you are using this to fund your dreams. Get the best machine you can afford. You'll enjoy working on it more.
 
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Ayanle Farah

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Not many cheap options for mac. I'd suggest go with a Macbook Pro over the other options. If this is going to be a dev machine it's well worth it (though the Pros are very expensive). I have an air and a pro. XCode can get sluggish on the Air (2013 model).

My advice would be to see if anyone is selling a used one (my pref would be Macbook Pro - 2015, 15in). Ideally if you can find one that is still under warranty I believe Apple transfers the warranty to new owner, you don't need original receipts (you may want to confirm that though).

If you are using this to fund your dreams. Get the best machine you can afford. You'll enjoy working on it more.
I see, honestly I don't mind things being sluggish since perfection is not what I'm after, is it really a big difference between the macbook pro and air?

I'll look into the used macbook pro some more.
 
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akTwelve

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I'm a bit late chiming in here, but this might still be helpful for you or someone else. Microsoft recently released a tool called Xamarin (https://www.visualstudio.com/xamarin/) that allows you to develop for iOS using Visual Studio (free) on Windows and/or Mac. If a MacBook is too expensive, this might be a nice alternative to get your first app out with the added bonus that you can use the same code base and release on iOS, Android, and Windows. That could dramatically expand your user base.

I haven't actually used the tool yet, but if I were going to create an app, I'd definitely start with Xamarin because I personally love coding in C# and Visual Studio is great.
Full disclosure: I'm currently a software engineer at Microsoft, but I try to be as unbiased as possible when I make recommendations to anyone. (And my primary phone is an iPhone ;))
 
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Ayanle Farah

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I'm a bit late chiming in here, but this might still be helpful for you or someone else. Microsoft recently released a tool called Xamarin (https://www.visualstudio.com/xamarin/) that allows you to develop for iOS using Visual Studio (free) on Windows and/or Mac. If a MacBook is too expensive, this might be a nice alternative to get your first app out with the added bonus that you can use the same code base and release on iOS, Android, and Windows. That could dramatically expand your user base.

I haven't actually used the tool yet, but if I were going to create an app, I'd definitely start with Xamarin because I personally love coding in C# and Visual Studio is great.
Full disclosure: I'm currently a software engineer at Microsoft, but I try to be as unbiased as possible when I make recommendations to anyone. (And my primary phone is an iPhone ;))
Don't worry about it, you can post whenever you like because this is my progress thread and the only thread where I will post stuff in this forum. Thanks for the recommendation. I would immediately go for it but I'm using Swift right now thanks to a udemy course.

I don't have a Mac computer and I won't buy one anytime soon, instead I take daily trips to the library to use one so I can code the apps in the course I'm taking.
 

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Don't worry about it, you can post whenever you like because this is my progress thread and the only thread where I will post stuff in this forum. Thanks for the recommendation. I would immediately go for it but I'm using Swift right now thanks to a udemy course.

I don't have a Mac computer and I won't buy one anytime soon, instead I take daily trips to the library to use one so I can code the apps in the course I'm taking.


I'm not trying to knock your hustle, but I believe that you are not setting yourself up for success. We understand that you want to code IOS apps as more than likely you can get people to buy.

The problem is that you are relying on other factors like using the library to code an app which you may have to wait until its open, it maybe broken, or the library is closed. If your serious about app development getting a good enough MAC should be on your top priorities.
 
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Ayanle Farah

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I'm not trying to knock your hustle, but I believe that you are not setting yourself up for success. We understand that you want to code IOS apps as more than likely you can get people to buy.

The problem is that you are relying on other factors like using the library to code an app which you may have to wait until its open, it maybe broken, or the library is closed. If your serious about app development getting a good enough MAC should be on your top priorities.
Perhaps I will later, for now I'm doing just fine learning this way and it's good to get out of the house every once in a while.
 

ehben

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Hands down Swift for an iOS app. If Objective C was great why would Apple create a new language ;)

If you are new to programming you will almost certainly run into less bugs and be faster with swift.

There are a few reasons for this, but not having to deal with header files would be enough to sway me. Another big one is compile time type safety. Obj-C you pass arrays like NSArray* and then have to type check them when you use them. In Swift you declare the array like [Int], then there is no way you jam a String into that array by accident. Obj-C doesn't protect against this and will throw a runtime exception which will likely crash your app. In my opinion the syntax (Obj-C) is also awful with all the square brackets, semi-colons and other stuff that more modern languages have abandoned. Swift is actively being developed and improved, has a passionate following yada yada. I really don't see any reason to learn Obj-C right now if you know neither language.

Now in terms of learning, I actually posted in the App Developer AMA my thoughts on how newbies should learn. But this is only my advice based on my experience and how I learned, the mistakes I made, etc.

I think it's great you have a clear goal to construct an MVP. I would suggest that you start with a Udemy or other *paid* course, one with a lot of good reviews. I think you'll save alot of time here instead of sifting through tons of free tutorials, find a course that takes you from concept to simple app. Ideally you can find a course producing a project that is somewhat similar to what you want to build. Ie if you want to build a game find a course building a game not a stock ticker app.

Once you have completed your sample project, start your MVP. Keep it MVP, keep is simple, break the app into discrete chunks of functionality (ie features) like Login, Register, Pull Stock Information From API, Show All Stocks, Search Stocks, Share Stocks, Save Favourite Stocks.

For each item break down further what you need to do. Ie for Pull Stocks From API you will likely need to be able to process a REST API. So google "swift rest api". For showing stocks you will want to develop a tableview, say you want to sort, just google "swift sort tableview". It will be slow going if you don't have programming experience but you will build momentum quickly. In my experience the best way is to just start and find help (ie google) each step of the way.

Where this is your first app you may even end up tossing it and re-writing it for your MVP. All part of progress. Don't get discouraged.

If you run into problems, post here. Also Stack Overflow is your friend, you'll become very familiar with it.

Epic answer man !

Just to add to it. Go with swift and build small things/projects at first that you would like to see in the world. Then build your skills from there.
 

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swift is a coding language, objective-c is the old version of it. both are open source

x-code is a code editor that will let you write/save/compile your iOS app. its a must to write for iOS apps and is free from Apple.

I would go with free tutorials in your position right now. Mac is a must. Get a macbook pro with good RAM memory if you can. You might need an iPhone or a good Mac to live test your apps.

Its ok to use open source libraries, they are all on github and you can download(fork) a copy for yourself at any time.

good luck!
 

toxicrain

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I'm a bit late chiming in here, but this might still be helpful for you or someone else. Microsoft recently released a tool called Xamarin (https://www.visualstudio.com/xamarin/) that allows you to develop for iOS using Visual Studio (free) on Windows and/or Mac. If a MacBook is too expensive, this might be a nice alternative to get your first app out with the added bonus that you can use the same code base and release on iOS, Android, and Windows. That could dramatically expand your user base.

I haven't actually used the tool yet, but if I were going to create an app, I'd definitely start with Xamarin because I personally love coding in C# and Visual Studio is great.
Full disclosure: I'm currently a software engineer at Microsoft, but I try to be as unbiased as possible when I make recommendations to anyone. (And my primary phone is an iPhone ;))

xamarin is bloatware. native is better.
 
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Also, this is for someone who finds this thread in the future....

If you are building some sort of game, go with Unity to build it - you will be able to build for all platforms with just one code base (ios+android+ps4+xbox)

If you are building an app (not a game), you will have to build 1 for iOS and 1 for Android separately. Otherwise your app will be kind of garbage and slow.

Good luck!
 

Ayanle Farah

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Also, this is for someone who finds this thread in the future....

If you are building some sort of game, go with Unity to build it - you will be able to build for all platforms with just one code base (ios+android+ps4+xbox)

If you are building an app (not a game), you will have to build 1 for iOS and 1 for Android separately. Otherwise your app will be kind of garbage and slow.

Good luck!
Thanks for posting. I didn't know I had to build one for android aswell, right now I'm learning Swift and plan to make strictly an iOS app. Can I wait before make one for android? Do I build them simultaneously?

Why will it be slow if I don't make it available for android?
 

akTwelve

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Thanks for posting. I didn't know I had to build one for android aswell, right now I'm learning Swift and plan to make strictly an iOS app. Can I wait before make one for android? Do I build them simultaneously?

Why will it be slow if I don't make it available for android?
Focus on your iOS app. You do not need an Android app at all if you don't want one. ToxicRain is just telling you not to use Xamarin because he believes there is a performance cost that outweighs the benefit.
 
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Ayanle Farah

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Focus on your iOS app. You do not need an Android app at all if you don't want one. ToxicRain is just telling you not to use Xamarin because he believes there is a performance cost that outweighs the benefit.
I see, that was my plan from the start. I had no intention of building an android app so it's good to know, thanks.
 

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What kind of app is it? A game? A social media app? A photography app? A recipe book?

Who is it for? Gamers? Businesses? Housewives? Uber-drivers?

What will it run on? You said just iOS, but if it is a non-game app, it might not be too much work to make it available on Android, and other platforms.

The answers to those questions will determine what tool is right for the job.

Unity3D is for games. Xamarin is not. Swift is not a modernized Objective-C. Swift is completely different than Objective-C.

If you are making some simple non-game app, Swift would be fine. At least you would not be fighting the Apple ecosystem while you are learning. If you have the money, the Wenderlich tutorials are really good. The advice for a used Mac is good advice. If you were willing to make your app for Android, I believe you could use a Windows, Linux, or Mac machine to develop on. Xamarin is good if you are a freelance mobile consultant who just needs to crank out small apps for corporate clients.
 
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Ayanle Farah

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What kind of app is it? A game? A social media app? A photography app? A recipe book?

Who is it for? Gamers? Businesses? Housewives? Uber-drivers?

What will it run on? You said just iOS, but if it is a non-game app, it might not be too much work to make it available on Android, and other platforms.

The answers to those questions will determine what tool is right for the job.

Unity3D is for games. Xamarin is not. Swift is not a modernized Objective-C. Swift is completely different than Objective-C.

If you are making some simple non-game app, Swift would be fine. At least you would not be fighting the Apple ecosystem while you are learning. If you have the money, the Wenderlich tutorials are really good. The advice for a used Mac is good advice. If you were willing to make your app for Android, I believe you could use a Windows, Linux, or Mac machine to develop on. Xamarin is good if you are a freelance mobile consultant who just needs to crank out small apps for corporate clients.
I am making a non-game app for iOS so Swift would be the go-to programming language for that. For now, I want to focus on one thing at a time.

I might make it available for android later on, but that's not in the forseeable future.
 

Ayanle Farah

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So guys, I've been using the library for a month now and @lifeNchoices was right, I could progress alot quicker buying a mac.

I'm thinking of buying a used macbook air 13 2014 because these apple laptops are ridiculously expensive.

@OverByte, you mentioned the macbook air 2013 got sluggish on x code but is it really an obstacle? I don't want the best computer, I just want one that works using X code and Swift.

Thanks.
 

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So guys, I've been using the library for a month now and @lifeNchoices was right, I could progress alot quicker buying a mac.

I'm thinking of buying a used macbook air 13 2014 because these apple laptops are ridiculously expensive.

@OverByte, you mentioned the macbook air 2013 got sluggish on x code but is it really an obstacle? I don't want the best computer, I just want one that works using X code and Swift.

Thanks.
I use an Air from 2014 and although I noticed that simulating the app through xCode got a bit sluggish, it wasn't anything too problematic. MacBook Pros are a lot better in terms of simulation, but if you're just focusing on making apps, not games, I don't feel you should have any problems, you could probably even try going for an older model(but not too old, try to make sure it runs the latest OS X at least).

For now, I'd say your main focus should be building, building, building with the most basic requirements fulfilled and that's it. As you grow and as you get some momentum going, you can get yourself the high end devices.
 
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OverByte

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So guys, I've been using the library for a month now and @lifeNchoices was right, I could progress alot quicker buying a mac.

I'm thinking of buying a used macbook air 13 2014 because these apple laptops are ridiculously expensive.

@OverByte, you mentioned the macbook air 2013 got sluggish on x code but is it really an obstacle? I don't want the best computer, I just want one that works using X code and Swift.

Thanks.
You can use an air I just wouldn't recommend it. I found in particular storyboards and interface builder becomes sluggish on the air. In terms of tools I'd say get the best you can afford if that's an air then so be it. You may be better off getting an older MacBook pro instead of an air for a similar price.

Don't over think things like this. Just get building.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

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So guys, I've been using the library for a month now and @lifeNchoices was right, I could progress alot quicker buying a mac.

I'm thinking of buying a used macbook air 13 2014 because these apple laptops are ridiculously expensive.

@OverByte, you mentioned the macbook air 2013 got sluggish on x code but is it really an obstacle? I don't want the best computer, I just want one that works using X code and Swift.

Thanks.


Great job on seeing that some things were going wrong. Yes they are expensive, but they last a long time. The Air models are lighter, but you can get a much more powerful pro for that same price and it will take care of your needs. Also the PRO's(non retina) can upgrade there HD and ram much easier. Its the machine I got started on when I started my first IT company back in 2010 and my wife still uses it and it works fine.

I would deal with the extra weight for the performance when your first starting.
 

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I use an Air from 2014 and although I noticed that simulating the app through xCode got a bit sluggish, it wasn't anything too problematic. MacBook Pros are a lot better in terms of simulation, but if you're just focusing on making apps, not games, I don't feel you should have any problems, you could probably even try going for an older model(but not too old, try to make sure it runs the latest OS X at least).

For now, I'd say your main focus should be building, building, building with the most basic requirements fulfilled and that's it. As you grow and as you get some momentum going, you can get yourself the high end devices.
How's this?

Macbook pro '13(mid 2012)
OS X Yosemite
Version: 10.10.5
Memory: 4GB 1600 MHz DOR3
Graphic: Intel HD Graphics 4000 1024 MB
Processor: 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
Serienumber: C1MP373LDTY3

I don't know what all this represent but isn't the memory too small? X code need 4.55 GB to install.

If this gets too complicated I'll just make the investment even though it'd hurt to spend as much as macbook's demand.
 
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beatgoezon

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How's this?

Macbook pro '13(mid 2012)
OS X Yosemite
Version: 10.10.5
Memory: 4GB 1600 MHz DOR3
Graphic: Intel HD Graphics 4000 1024 MB
Processor: 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
Serienumber: C1MP373LDTY3

I don't know what all this represent but isn't the memory too small? X code need 4.55 GB to install

If this gets too complicated I'll just make the investment even though it'd hurt to spend as much as macbook's demand.

The Macbook Pro you're talking about is good enough, mate. My partner uses that exact 2012 model if I'm not mistaken, hasn't caused any problems yet.



As for memory vs HDD space, memory is RAM, that's different from hard disc space. The MacBook Pro you're looking at comes with 500 GB space I think, more than enough for Xcode(10GB or so installed) storing projects, graphics, other software like Adobe, etc initially.

Look at the specs again, it should have 500GB space or something like that. It can also be updated to the latest OS X Sierra.

Spend a little time researching on the computers. I know you're bootstrapping and shouldn't blow cash on unnecessary power. If you'd like to go cheaper, I've heard a few devs also get Mac Mini and a second-hand monitor to get their business going. It won't be a laptop but it should get the job done for you in terms of development and be half the cost if you go second-hand.

You can also look into buying an older MacBook Air, those are cheaper than MacBook Pros.

Another alternative I've heard of(but never tested) is about installing OS X on a windows laptop with the capability to run Xcode. I have no clue about this but have heard from some developers doing this to save money.

Spend a little time researching your possibilities, that money you're investing should pay off in terms of progress and process if you're resourceful enough. Also keep in mind you'll need an Apple Developer account to upload to the App Store($99/year for personal account).

I'm not an expert by any means, but the best advice I'd give you is to:
Buy least expensive computer for your development stage------>

Start developing+learning Swift/Obj-C to create little apps------>

Read and keep keep learning about the business side of apps----->

Create an MVP(Minimum viable product)------>

Get Apple Dev account and launch your app; if you get rejected by Apple, fix the problems/issues of the app then resubmit-------->

Apply ASO/marketing etc and see why it's didn't succeed---------->

Adjust your strategy and app------>


Go steady but never stop
 

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