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Should I learn copywriting or programming?

Digamma

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Programming is better in the long term. The world is getting more automated every day. Copywriters will eventually be replaced by AI that crafts better copy than humans. But somebody will have to program that AI first. So if you're looking for long-term solutions, then programming will always be the better option.

Copywriting is not going to make you startup capital at a useful level from scratch in under six months, and probably more like a year. That's assuming you are good at selling yourself. Since you said "if the ideas don't work out" I'll assume you're not confident that they will which also says you may not believe in yourself enough to make copywriting worth your time.

Whichever way you go will require big shifts in mindset before you make money. If you haven't read The Millionaire Fastlane , then I would pick up a copy before going any further in any direction.

Disagree on this one Lex.

This is my perspective as someone who is reasonably good at both skills and used/uses them both to do biz. Sorry if I write weird things, I'm pretty hungover.

In no particular order, and as they come to mind:
  • Becoming proficient at copy is much easier/faster than programming. Lex says 6mo/1y, but honestly, I started making a livable wage in around two months. You won't beat sophisticated controls. But you will be delivering results to clients who had BAD marketing before you came along, and that's fine. Or you can do affiliate marketing. In programming you could do Lambda School or a bootcamp and maybe find a job pretty fast. But you aren't a professional, not really. You are only leveraging a huge gap in labor supply/demand to get a job where they know they'll need to train you.
  • Copy is something you can leverage pretty much on your own. Bang out copy for clients, and you got a freelancing biz. Being a one man band in programming is much harder, and usually reserved for either full stack devs (lots of skills needed, lots of time) or veterans who are hyper-specialized in some hard/niche thing. That's not to say you shouldn't increase in both breadth and depth of skills when working on copy, but it's easier to get in motion.
  • To somewhat rehash the same point in another way, basic copy skills are easy to get and will be very, very useful for any business you start. Basic coding skills are harder to get and stop being useful fast. It becomes a simple matter of expected value.
  • Never work in a cost center.
  • The state of AI is way over-hyped. AI is not going to write decent copy on its own for a long, long time. By the time it can, the problem will be moot. Besides, it will be copywriters that make that AI, not programmers.
  • More to the point, you want to be a businessman? You need to deal with human psychology. That's all there is to business. Copy will teach you a lot of that. If you want to go from A to B, make your path as straight as possible. Don't invest thousands of hours learning something you won't use once you are doing what you want to do.
  • You will learn the basics of copy anyway as you start business, so might as well get two birds with one stone.
  • There is only one skill you need to learn. Selling. Copy is selling in written form. What other skill to fall back on could you possibly need? The day there is no need for selling is the day there is no need for labor, and so the whole point is moot.
  • You definitely need to fix your mindset as Lex says. Why do you need a fall back? Burn your boats, man. If an idea doesn't work out, you try another thing.
  • You will know your mindset is fixed when you problem is not "what business do I start?" but "how do I decide what to pursue out of all these problems I see?".
 

Lex DeVille

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Programming is better in the long term. The world is getting more automated every day. Copywriters will eventually be replaced by AI that crafts better copy than humans. But somebody will have to program that AI first. So if you're looking for long-term solutions, then programming will always be the better option.

Copywriting is not going to make you startup capital at a useful level from scratch in under six months, and probably more like a year. That's assuming you are good at selling yourself. Since you said "if the ideas don't work out" I'll assume you're not confident that they will which also says you may not believe in yourself enough to make copywriting worth your time.

Whichever way you go will require big shifts in mindset before you make money. If you haven't read The Millionaire Fastlane , then I would pick up a copy before going any further in any direction.
 

Andy Black

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Combine both?

I was an IT contractor for 10 years, and have been a freelance digital marketer for a further 10 years.

What I do now: Write code to generate advertising campaigns, in my case Google Ads. There’s a bit of copywriting involved, and Google Ads in particular suits folks with an IT background or brain.

If a niece or nephew came to me asking whether to do copywriting or programming I’d say Google Ads.
 
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Taktik

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Most members here would probably disagree but in my opinion, every skill benefits from your abilities. Not only sport/physical skills.

It's possible to learn that skill, even to be good at it. But if the skill doesn't match you, it would be damn hard to get to the top 1% in it.

I agree. This reminds me of the way James Clear put it in Atomic Habits:
The secret to maximizing your odds of success is to choose the right field of competition. Play a game that favors your strenghts.
 

Lex DeVille

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Disagree on this one Lex.

I don't think we're in disagreement. It's definitely possible to get good enough at copy to make a living wage in 2 months. The rest of the time is to account for all the other things I've seen hold copywriting students back again and again.

Mainly that people suck at writing, don't really grasp influence and persuasion, are afraid to put themselves out there because they don't think they're "good enough," and don't know how to sell themselves to clients.
 

astr0

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Both skills are valuable.

Programming might be a little bit more scalable skill in the long-run. Good programmers are generally bad at copywriting, cause it requires different wiring in the brain, so they need a copywriter from time to time. Probably the same is true for the other side. A good copywriter might be good in design (including Web Design) cause it's the same wiring, but not in hardcore programming (embedded, high-performance stuff, etc.).

From that viewpoint only copywriting makes sense, because most of the ideas I have are in the ecommerce area. One reason for this could also be, that I don`t have any experience with SaaS and programming at all, but it is, what it is.
Learning programming to become good at it is a pretty long process. Same stands for copywriting, but you're probably already on the way, right?

Most members here would probably disagree but in my opinion, every skill benefits from your abilities. Not only sport/physical skills.

It's possible to learn any skill and to be good at it. But if the skill doesn't match you, it would be damn hard to get to the top 1% in it.
 
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Andy Black

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Oh, and I’d suggest not having a goal “to learn”.
 
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Digamma

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Not exactly. AI isn't going to be used for full-blown client copywriting for years. Maybe even 10 years or more. But you asked which was better in the "long term."

I only posted that link to show that AI can competently write at human levels right now. It's just not being applied toward copywriting or for any specific purpose beyond developer tinkering (as far as we know).
I get what you are saying.

But: copy is not about the writing. Maybe we mean different things. When I say copy, I mean direct response. Take a product and a market, and make things happen.

Yes, AI can competently generate new text.
What it cannot do is understand people, come up with new angles that match the direction a market is moving, and leverage that to produce offers for that market.

To completely automate this process would probably require general AI.
Coding will get automated well before human psychology (much easier).

In fact, the argument for coding rests entirely on the assumption that (1) it won't get automated and (2) the demand for labor keeps growing. Both of those are hugely flawed assumptions imho.

To address the last part of your post, it is being used in the industry for content generation (I use it myself). But it's pretty much automating legwork. We already had that automated to be honest, only it was outsourcing instead of AI.
Most members here would probably disagree but in my opinion, every skill benefits from your abilities. Not only sport/physical skills.

It's possible to learn any skill and to be good at it. But if the skill doesn't match you, it would be damn hard to get to the top 1% in it.
True. I would like to point out that you don't need to get to the 1% in a skill unless there is a reason.
If you need to write copy for your ecom store, you don't need to be a world class copywriter.

That is an interesting point, as I am planning to do things mostly on my own.

That is hard to do, because I have a family, so a regular income is a necessity. Because of this, I am still working as an employee, but I am not satisfied with that; I want something more and so I thought, that learning a new skill would be a good start.
Makes sense.
Suggested:
Learn Direct Response => Freelance on the side (specific offer to a specific target) => Build your freelancing to a real source of income in much less time => leave job => use freed time + money to start your non-service business, or grow freelancing to agency, or whatever you find best.
 

rjrobbins2

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Not everyone needs to know programming though. Writing and communication are basic life skills. They are not comparable. When I have done hiring in the past, I have had them provide a writing sample as part of the interview process. If you cannot exercise basic schools taught in elementary school, I will not hire you.

Yes, the ability to understand and listen to the market is vital. However, if you cannot communicate with the market in the most basic ways, those skills are worthless. Would you do business if someone sent you an email filled with spelling and grammatical errors?

Plus, a person can just sit down and write with nothing more than a pencil and a scrap of paper to practice. It is the easiest skills in the world to develop and the application of it is endless.
 
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Remiremi

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Définitions: I define short term as about nine to fifteen months and long term as about four to five years.

Let's just be clear : you won't make money short term with programming if you start from scratch today, so funding your startup this year with programming gig is just a pipe-dream.

Though you can learn webdesign and make money short term but this is not programming per-se.

If you must pick one skill to fund your startup go with copywriting, for the many reasons explained in the previous posts.

This said, for your long term interest I will strongly suggest you to learn how to program. I would recommend to choose or Python3 or Javascript (pure, no framework) and to practice + learn a little bit every three to four days.

How to learn those two? (remember, you can only chose one and master it)

  • Best ressource for learning python from scratch : learn python 3 the hard way by Z. Shaw (you can find it for free somewhere on the internet). This is the best no bullshit quickest way to learn python. I use it to get absolute beginners ready in 10 days (full time).o
  • For javascript https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS/blob/master/Readme.md (free) disclaimer : I am a python expert but I know very few js so my recommendation may be decent but not optimal. You might want to ask for second opinion on the best way to learn it.
From what you say javascript (no framework) might be your best bet:
- very useful for front end if you want to do your designs and UX yourself
- you can use it full stack (meaning create whole web apps thanks to it)
- you can use to create cross platform mobile app (iPhone + Android in one shot)
- future proof for edge computing AI (AI embedded in mobile phone)
In a nutshell : Very useful to create your MVPs for free!
 
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srodrigo

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My goal is it to become proficient in one of these two skills, to get some startup capital for my entrepreneurial ideas and have a basis to get back to, if the ideas don`t work out.

Then, focus on what kind of problems you want to solve, and what kind of business you want to start. From there, learn the required skills, being it copywriting or programming. If you are really worried about having a plan B, go for programming, you'll find a job easily and can make 6 figures eventually as an employee if you are good at it.
 
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Deleted50669

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My two cents is both, in sequence. Programming will allow you to build a solution to a problem that will scale without you doing extra effort. Copy will communicate with people to turn them into users of your software.

Edit: I should caveat that even with software there are some upgrades / changes needed to scale. But they are mostly one-and-done type deals (e.g., database sharding, increasing bandwidth, server clustering, etc etc). But they aren't problems until they're problems, and if you're that successful, you can pay for someone else to do it.
 
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GoodluckChuck

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To me this question is weird. Is like asking should I learn how to learn French or Spanish? The real question should be what problem are you trying to solve?

Unless you are looking for a new career working for a company as a cog in a wheel, I feel like you should be asking more broad questions like what skills to I have and what problems can I solve?

Should you use a hammer or a shovel? Well what is it that you're trying to achieve?

Again if you are looking for a job, then maybe the question you asked is ok, but it's more of a personal question. re you more interested in making machines do things or making people do things?

They are dramatically different realms of thinking.

I wouldn't put yourself in a corner. Try both and find real world applications to use as your playground. Hell, you might end up doing something unrelated to both of these things when you get a few steps ahead.
 

Andy Black

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Mainly that people suck at writing, don't really grasp influence and persuasion, are afraid to put themselves out there because they don't think they're "good enough," and don't know how to sell themselves to clients.
^^^ Yep. And this is for any service folks provide.
 

wordwarrior

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I don't believe in SkyNet's, and I don't think we should worry for a few generations at least. Software projects are still pretty hard to get right, not so much because of programming itself (we are getting better and better tools), but because from your client's mind to production there are many things that change and aren't interpreted right, so the amount of variables that can go wrong is still really high. Even with perfect code generation tools, there would still be a problem with translating ideas into specifications that a machine can understand. The AI bot that programs itself is even farther away.

Depends. Is software central to your business or complimentary to it? For amazon, software (AWS cloud computing platform both as a standalone product and infrastructure for their own products) is front and centre to their business and gives them a massive competitive advantage. On the other hand, software (usually just a website) is merely complimentary to a self-publishing business.

Lots of non-programmers got rich writing lousy to medium quality software. What they managed to do is get a product to market and then sell it. On the other hand, lots of programmers tried to start businesses with beautifully architected software applications and failed miserably because either the end product wasn't all that valuable or they couldn't market it effectively.

So I'd say get the copywriting skills. Granted, I'm a software dev with almost 20 years experience who finds copywriting new and fascinating.
 

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Hello,

I want to learn a new skill, but I can`t really decide, which one to pursue, copywriting or programming? (I have neither experience in one nor the other.)
I am interested in both of them, but I don`t have time to learn them both.
What do you think is the better option in the long term and why?

My goal is it to become proficient in one of these two skills, to get some startup capital for my entrepreneurial ideas and have a basis to get back to, if the ideas don`t work out.

Thank you.

I would definitely recommend trying them out before making a big decision. https://teamtreehouse.com is an amazing resource for learning how to program. Try their 7 day trial - then you can see if programming is something you would enjoy doing long-term.
 

rjrobbins2

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I agree with everyone who says both. Copywriting is a skill that will carry over to any business.

I have worked directly with several multi-million dollar a year, Fortune 500 executives who cannot write for shit. Nevermind all the lower level, people, I have worked with who cannot write. It is shocking the amount of people who lack basic writing skills. Even if you do not pursue it professionally, the skills will benefit you.

Like others said, I would work on coding first. But, I would also take time to write every single day. It doesnt have to be copywriting, it can just be stories, journaling about your day, writing essays about topics you like, or even writing letters to people. Any type or writing will help you get better at copywriting.

Finally, make sure you read every single day. Reading makes you a better writer, helps improve comprehension of topics and you gain knowledge.
 

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What do you think is the better option in the long term and why?
In terms of making money, it's easily copywriting. Copywriting is sales in print, and sales jobs earn more than engineering jobs. Paradoxically, it's precisely because of the great success of engineering that they get paid less. Engineering is so successful that by succeeding, they remove the need that got them hired in the first place.

Think about it, after a company has produced a great robot, app, AI or whatever - the focus shifts to marketing. Engineers will still be needed in research and development, but they won't be driving the revenue growth of the company anymore. Sales & marketing will.

Programming is better in the long term.
This is not supported by the data. If you want to be a millionaire, then the fastest route is to open a business. But the alternative, if you're not going to open a business, is to be a salesman. Not a programmer.

The tech to do it is already here.
Here is Mitsuku, the world's most advanced conversational AI chatbot (most human-like), and multiple-time winner of the Loebner Prize (including in 2019). Try chatting with her, and you will easily detect she is not human. For example:

Me: I drank beer with ma buddies
Mitsuku: I hope you didn't get drunk.
Me: nah, but I surely hit the pillow when I got back
Mitsuku: Then why did you tell me you did? It is not nice to lie. You? I don't like violence.
She can't handle it. The implied knowledge that is required for human-like language use is still out of AI's reach for now.

The world is getting more automated every day. Copywriters will eventually be replaced by AI that crafts better copy than humans
I'm not buying it. Humans will always be more in touch with human psychology than AI ever will, just because they are human and have direct access, whereas AI will always have second-hand access. In addition, keep in mind that psychology itself evolves. For example, Freud's theories have trickled down today into popular consciousness. For this reason, the average man's psychology is no longer adequately described by Freud's theories. The knowledge of Freud's theories has changed the actual psychology - people behave differently after knowing it.

For this reason, psychology is an always evolving science. We will never reach a final theory of psychology. We will never achieve completeness. And this means that the direct understanding of a human being, coupled with our intuition, will always be better than AI at this. This is not to say that AI won't be extremely powerful... but I doubt it would be better than a human.

Plus you always have the "hand-made" branding aspect. I suppose you'll have the cheap copy that AI produces, and then you'll have the "human-crafted" mega super awesome copy :happy:
 
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Ywan

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Same stands for copywriting, but you're probably already on the way, right?
I studied my mother tongue and russian at university and finished the first with a master degree and the latter with a bachelor.
That means, that I am a quite proficient writer, but I haven´t really done any copywriting yet.
 
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astr0

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In fact, the argument for coding rests entirely on the assumption that (1) it won't get automated and (2) the demand for labor keeps growing.
If coding gets fully automated it would build SkyNet and we're all doomed. No point in taking that into consideration as everything won't matter then. Even if it decides to spare us, it will code and make every possible thing we can and cannot imagine.

No-code solutions are making significant progress. But that's programming in a different way. No writing code, but still a lot of work.

True. I would like to point out that you don't need to get to the 1% in a skill unless there is a reason.
If you need to write copy for your ecom store, you don't need to be a world class copywriter.
Sure, only if it's the main skill required for your business/job.
 
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astr0

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Or we can partially agree.

I believe that if a person cannot take the time to learn to write properly and especially considering the tools you mentioned, I shouldn't trust them to do more complex tasks. Again, I am talking good enough skills to pass grade school language classes.
Makes sense, especially considering such low requirements.

If a person cannot take the care to check their emails or mass communications, how are they going to execute the plan we are working on?
Sure, the person should definitely care when it's something that important. But I would still forgive if someone is uber busy and just wrote a quick email with lots of mistakes.

It can also lead to miscommunications which can end up causing a lot of problems. I had a Marketing Executive cause a $50k fine with the SEC because she used the wrong language.
Totally agree, and you have a nice real-life proof for that.

Now that I've better understood what you're talking about, I'm really more on the same side.

However, you would not hire me.
I've had C (I guess, we are using a different scoring system in schools here) on writing and languages all the time. And every attempt to improve that had very little results if any. In fact, I've had a better score on English than my native Ukrainian, but maybe that has something to do with the actual scoring system for the foreign languages here.

Yet, having far from the best writing skills was never an issue for me in adult life. Nor I've ever thought it could be.
 
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I would go with copywriting because its a skill that will be applicable to far more areas of business and life in general.

It's also cheaper to outsource good programming than it is good copywriting.

And speaking from experience, copywriting has more immediate pay-offs. With a couple of months worth of copywriting experience under your belt you'll be able to write better ads and product descriptions than 99% of people out there. 2 months worth of programming however, won't get you far.
 

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Copy writing, programming, sales, coding, SEO, marketing, are all tools.
What matters is can you apply these tools to help solve the need/problem you identified. Yes learning the skill sets will be important when the time calls but without the correct mindset how are they going to point you in the direction of the FastLane.
To my understanding, TMF was about the mindset. My biggest takeaway was identifying Needs/problems in the market.

I think many folks come here and are influenced by the legendary threads about someone achieving massive results with copy/programming or any other skill but forget the fact that that certain individual identified a NEED and fulfilled it. Not saying you cant learn a skill and then identify a need. This is just my 2 CENTS (wow i love how that worked out lol)
I started reading “The Boron Letters” and “The Ultimate Sales Letter” (Wonderful books about copy from this forum). My goal is to rework the Copy writing and ads that I see in my gym and help pull new members for the gym.


Neng
 

Lex DeVille

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Ywan

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Wow, thanks for the many answers.

Whichever way you go will require big shifts in mindset before you make money.
Mindset is definitely a problem for me. I have to work on that more, that is a fact.

Copy is something you can leverage pretty much on your own.
That is an interesting point, as I am planning to do things mostly on my own.

You definitely need to fix your mindset as Lex says. Why do you need a fall back? Burn your boats, man. If an idea doesn't work out, you try another thing.
That is hard to do, because I have a family, so a regular income is a necessity. Because of this, I am still working as an employee, but I am not satisfied with that; I want something more and so I thought, that learning a new skill would be a good start.

What I do now: Write code to generate advertising campaigns, in my case Google Ads. There’s a bit of copywriting involved, and Google Ads in particular suits folks with an IT background or brain.
What do you exactely mean by writing code?

Then, focus on what kind of problems you want to solve, and what kind of business you want to start. From there, learn the required skills, being it copywriting or programming.
From that viewpoint only copywriting makes sense, because most of the ideas I have are in the ecommerce area. One reason for this could also be, that I don`t have any experience with SaaS and programming at all, but it is, what it is.

The tech to do it is already here. It's just not being used for copy. I want to see this thing in action!
So you are basically saying, that copywriting is dead, but it just doesn`t know about it yet?
 

Lex DeVille

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So you are basically saying, that copywriting is dead, but it just doesn`t know about it yet?

Not exactly. AI isn't going to be used for full-blown client copywriting for years. Maybe even 10 years or more. But you asked which was better in the "long term."

I only posted that link to show that AI can competently write at human levels right now. It's just not being applied toward copywriting or for any specific purpose beyond developer tinkering (as far as we know).
 

srodrigo

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If coding gets fully automated it would build SkyNet and we're all doomed. No point in taking that into consideration as everything won't matter then. Even if it decides to spare us, it will code and make every possible thing we can and cannot imagine.

No-code solutions are making significant progress. But that's programming in a different way. No writing code, but still a lot of work.


Sure, only if it's the main skill required for your business/job.
I don't believe in SkyNet's, and I don't think we should worry for a few generations at least. Software projects are still pretty hard to get right, not so much because of programming itself (we are getting better and better tools), but because from your client's mind to production there are many things that change and aren't interpreted right, so the amount of variables that can go wrong is still really high. Even with perfect code generation tools, there would still be a problem with translating ideas into specifications that a machine can understand. The AI bot that programs itself is even farther away.
 

rjrobbins2

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Programming is better in the long term. The world is getting more automated every day. Copywriters will eventually be replaced by AI that crafts better copy than humans. But somebody will have to program that AI first. So if you're looking for long-term solutions, then programming will always be the better option.

Copywriting is not going to make you startup capital at a useful level from scratch in under six months, and probably more like a year. That's assuming you are good at selling yourself. Since you said "if the ideas don't work out" I'll assume you're not confident that they will which also says you may not believe in yourself enough to make copywriting worth your time.

Whichever way you go will require big shifts in mindset before you make money. If you haven't read The Millionaire Fastlane , then I would pick up a copy before going any further in any direction.


I disagree with AI replacing copywriters. Yes, there will be AIs that generate good content but we are far away from them being so prevalent that they get close to eliminating writers. Writing requires a human element that AI will find difficult to replicate. Maybe one day they will build AI with emotions and AI will create emotions for themselves but I think we are far off. Copywriting is a high-demand skill.

With that said, programming is the better skill to learn because it will always be in demand and likely have higher earning potential.

But, it all just depends on what the OP wants to do with their life and what kind of value they wish to provide to the world.
 
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