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Should I Get a Job to Secure a Loan?

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Seamster

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I have a real estate business and live on the cashflow. I quit my job earlier this year. I just found out that the mortgage company I use can get me $150,000 cash to refinance 2-3 houses. But, my debt-to-income ratio is too low to get a mortage, so I need to get a job.

A company tried to hire me earlier this year, but I declined. Six months later hey still haven't filled that position. It's work-from-home for now still. Pay will be $85,000 (after 6 months after taxes that would be $30,000 cash I could use to invest).

Do I go out and get a job just to get $150,000 (+ the paychecks)? That's a no-brainer. Yes, I do. I will. And I am. It's not fraud or anything. The problem is that I only need to have the job for a month or 2 in order to get my loan. And, as particular as they are about the person they hire, I'm happy they still want me, but I'm not usually the type of guy to quit within a few months (plus they had to pay a recruiter fee to find me).

If I end up hating the place and managers are jerks then quitting is easy. But, if it's decent, as an entrepreneur who values time over paychecks, how long do I work there before quitting? (Before quitting I'll offer them part-time. Three days a week I could do.) $85,000 is good in this lower socio-economic area. Is 6 months and a "I'm sorry this just isn't for me" good enough? Should I do 12 months? They seem to want someone really long term like 3 years or more and I'm not going to be that guy. So I feel bad that I'm using them just for a mortgage. But then again companies don't think twice about laying off people so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It just feels weird. Thoughts?
 

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thechosen1

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I'm not a CPA or an attorney but I have a bit of experience and inside information on how this can work.

You can do that, OR you could incorporate your business and hire yourself as a W2 employee with a salary.
(well, actually the business entity hires you, and you own the shares of the business)

Every legitimate business will ultimately lead to the latter option. You will still be the owner, but you will have two "roles," and the employee role is important for banks and stuff.

Again, I am not a CPA or attorney but this seems to be how it works. Someone else might chime in.
 
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Private Witt

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Basically you are just going to be bootstrapping even if for to qualify for a loan. I was in this spot for a long time using jobs to bootstrap. I gave up with professional as not fair to the employer, but than used blue collar like pizza delivery man, Uber, other transactional jobs where if I left nobody really cares.

My last professional job in 2013, I was called into the office after 1.5 years out of a 3 years contact. The management heard rumors I had a side business and were fine with it but wanted me to ask if I really wanted to work as a teacher, coach, and athletic director or if I my heart wanted to be with my own business. I was told to think about it and arrangements could be made. It took me about five minutes and I knew I wanted out and I finished the rest of the half year out and we agreed to let me out of the contract for the last year. Ill never go back to working professional again for someone else as its just not a win-win and I would be looking for the door after day one.
 

gbsbill

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I think you should do the one year. Then offer part-time. Plus you may find other uses for having a verifiable income. Like another loan in 6 months to a year.
 

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You have an extensive ( dedicated client ) list of successful financial contracts that you created, orchestrated and executed. That should be enough proof to secure a loan, especially since it's to procure even more business for the banks. Unfortunately, in the traditional banking world it is not.
Tokenization can provide the liquidity you need for operational costs, offer investors realistic returns while retaining 100% equity/ownership of your company and create alternative options for clients to secure your services or transact in the real estate ecosystem. Your business, ideas and intellectual property remain intact. I provide a concept "vehicle" that repackages how your products and services are presented to and consumed by your clients and/or speculative investors.
 

Seamster

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First off, how do I multi-quote? I tried to click "+Quote" beneath each of the following 3 quotes but when I click "Reply" it only quotes the one that I clicked "Reply" on. To get these 3 quoted I had to open 3 tabs and copy and paste. Broken buttons? Glitch?

Basically you are just going to be bootstrapping even if for to qualify for a loan. I was in this spot for a long time using jobs to bootstrap. I gave up with professional as not fair to the employer, but than used blue collar like pizza delivery man, Uber, other transactional jobs where if I left nobody really cares.

My last professional job in 2013, I was called into the office after 1.5 years out of a 3 years contact. The management heard rumors I had a side business and were fine with it but wanted me to ask if I really wanted to work as a teacher, coach, and athletic director or if I my heart wanted to be with my own business. I was told to think about it and arrangements could be made. It took me about five minutes and I knew I wanted out and I finished the rest of the half year out and we agreed to let me out of the contract for the last year. Ill never go back to working professional again for someone else as its just not a win-win and I would be looking for the door after day one.
Yes. And I guess we all gotta do what we gotta do. Me doing this will take me from a normal guy with $30k in the bank to a private money lender with $150k to burn. I'd be lending people money for various business projects. Or, I could go out and buy several houses with that money. Life changing for me for sure! But that company. How much am I hurting the manager? The HR person? The VP? I doubt me quitting will affect them more than 1%. Plus, when I leave I'll give a valid-sounding reason too.

I'm not a CPA or an attorney but I have a bit of experience and inside information on how this can work.

You can do that, OR you could incorporate your business and hire yourself as a W2 employee with a salary.
(well, actually the business entity hires you, and you own the shares of the business)
This is a good idea. Unfortunately my business doesn't make all that much money and I wouldn't qualify for too high of loans :(

I think you should do the one year. Then offer part-time. Plus you may find other uses for having a verifiable income. Like another loan in 6 months to a year.
I mentioned what you said to my entrepreneurial buddy. He agrees. I'm not looking at this as a paycheck, I'm looking at it as A) stick it out 6 months, stack up $30k and B) last for 12 months, stack up $60k. The thing about getting a loan next year is worth keeping in the back of my mind. You're right! If I sell a house or something I'd want to get another mortgage to finance another!
 

Private Witt

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Yes. And I guess we all gotta do what we gotta do. Me doing this will take me from a normal guy with $30k in the bank to a private money lender with $150k to burn. I'd be lending people money for various business projects. Or, I could go out and buy several houses with that money. Life changing for me for sure! But that company. How much am I hurting the manager? The HR person? The VP? I doubt me quitting will affect them more than 1%. Plus, when I leave I'll give a valid-sounding reason too.

Exactly, for each their own and I would go get mine in this dog eat dog world as long as in legal obligations. I was working with kids and teams, and once there is no heart in it, that person needs to get out. But if some soul less corporation nobody really cares and they bring in next.
 

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First off, how do I multi-quote? I tried to click "+Quote" beneath each of the following 3 quotes but when I click "Reply" it only quotes the one that I clicked "Reply" on.
Click the quotes like you did.

Then scroll to the bottom area where you can type a reply and you should see an "insert quote" button appear. (It only shows up when you have selected something to quote). Click that and arrange the quotes in the order you want to reply...

Also, get the job. Decide later when is the right time to quit...
 

WJK

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I have a real estate business and live on the cashflow. I quit my job earlier this year. I just found out that the mortgage company I use can get me $150,000 cash to refinance 2-3 houses. But, my debt-to-income ratio is too low to get a mortage, so I need to get a job.

A company tried to hire me earlier this year, but I declined. Six months later hey still haven't filled that position. It's work-from-home for now still. Pay will be $85,000 (after 6 months after taxes that would be $30,000 cash I could use to invest).

Do I go out and get a job just to get $150,000 (+ the paychecks)? That's a no-brainer. Yes, I do. I will. And I am. It's not fraud or anything. The problem is that I only need to have the job for a month or 2 in order to get my loan. And, as particular as they are about the person they hire, I'm happy they still want me, but I'm not usually the type of guy to quit within a few months (plus they had to pay a recruiter fee to find me).

If I end up hating the place and managers are jerks then quitting is easy. But, if it's decent, as an entrepreneur who values time over paychecks, how long do I work there before quitting? (Before quitting I'll offer them part-time. Three days a week I could do.) $85,000 is good in this lower socio-economic area. Is 6 months and a "I'm sorry this just isn't for me" good enough? Should I do 12 months? They seem to want someone really long term like 3 years or more and I'm not going to be that guy. So I feel bad that I'm using them just for a mortgage. But then again companies don't think twice about laying off people so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It just feels weird. Thoughts?
I'm against taking on debt right now. I've been self-employed for 45 years. So I'll shut up...
 

jdm667

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I have a real estate business and live on the cashflow. I quit my job earlier this year. I just found out that the mortgage company I use can get me $150,000 cash to refinance 2-3 houses. But, my debt-to-income ratio is too low to get a mortage, so I need to get a job.

A company tried to hire me earlier this year, but I declined. Six months later hey still haven't filled that position. It's work-from-home for now still. Pay will be $85,000 (after 6 months after taxes that would be $30,000 cash I could use to invest).

Do I go out and get a job just to get $150,000 (+ the paychecks)? That's a no-brainer. Yes, I do. I will. And I am. It's not fraud or anything. The problem is that I only need to have the job for a month or 2 in order to get my loan. And, as particular as they are about the person they hire, I'm happy they still want me, but I'm not usually the type of guy to quit within a few months (plus they had to pay a recruiter fee to find me).

If I end up hating the place and managers are jerks then quitting is easy. But, if it's decent, as an entrepreneur who values time over paychecks, how long do I work there before quitting? (Before quitting I'll offer them part-time. Three days a week I could do.) $85,000 is good in this lower socio-economic area. Is 6 months and a "I'm sorry this just isn't for me" good enough? Should I do 12 months? They seem to want someone really long term like 3 years or more and I'm not going to be that guy. So I feel bad that I'm using them just for a mortgage. But then again companies don't think twice about laying off people so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It just feels weird. Thoughts?
If the economy gets bad enough, this company will get rid of you - and with no thought of a "minimum" amount of time that they need to employ you.

So, why do you feel like you need to give them some sort of minimum time commitment?

It is an exchange of work/results for a paycheck. No one is being coerced either way.

Their staffing challenges are not yours. If/when you hire, you will face the same problems, which will be your responsibility, not your employees'.
 

OMJ

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If the economy gets bad enough, this company will get rid of you - and with no thought of a "minimum" amount of time that they need to employ you
That's not the same situation though is it?

Manslaughter Vs murder one.
, why do you feel like you need to give them some sort of minimum time commitment?
Because he has a conscience?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 

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thechosen1

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I'm against taking on debt right now. I've been self-employed for 45 years. So I'll shut up...
Inflation will help pay off your debt though right? The key being that you need to make sure you have tenants, sales, or whatever it is your business does.
 

jdm667

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That's not the same situation though is it?

Manslaughter Vs murder one.

Because he has a conscience?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
You make a good point. I think it comes down to communicating expectations.

If you agree to do something, you should do it. If you tell the company you will stay for a year, you should keep your word.

Conscience should go both ways though. If the boss expects an employee to stay and be loyal for 3-5 years, shouldn't the boss also guarantee that he will pay the employee for 3-5 years, regardless of what the economy does?
 

OMJ

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You make a good point. I think it comes down to communicating expectations.

If you agree to do something, you should do it. If you tell the company you will stay for a year, you should keep your word.

Conscience should go both ways though. If the boss expects an employee to stay and be loyal for 3-5 years, shouldn't the boss also guarantee that he will pay the employee for 3-5 years, regardless of what the economy does?
Yes, he should keep his word.

Of course, if he does a kick-a$$ job & leaves them in a better situation than before he started then no harm no foul.

But if they're out of pocket, he'll get his karma.

This made me laugh:

Should I do 12 months? They seem to want someone really long term like 3 years or more


A year will fly by.

3 years is long term?

What are you whippersnappers smoking?
 

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3 years is long term?

What are you whippersnappers smoking?

No, he said "really long term, like 3 years". But I am with you...

giphy.gif


I know this is an a forum about business. Yet I employ people and reading this thread is strange.

I get the OP wants the loan but:

a) if it were me, I wouldn't post this decision on the internet ;)
b) do what feels right in your heart, not what strangers say (it seems you have a heart)
c) long term is 10 years. Rally long term is 15-20. Just putting it out there.


6 months feels like a long weekend to some of us. Life is short - take action and live with your decisions.
 

thechosen1

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No, he said "really long term, like 3 years". But I am with you...

View attachment 40303


I know this is an a forum about business. Yet I employ people and reading this thread is strange.

I get the OP wants the loan but:

a) if it were me, I wouldn't post this decision on the internet ;)
b) do what feels right in your heart, not what strangers say (it seems you have a heart)
c) long term is 10 years. Rally long term is 15-20. Just putting it out there.


6 months feels like a long weekend to some of us. Life is short - take action and live with your decisions.
I can see it both ways.

6 months flies by in the blink of an eye, and so will 3 years.

But how many years do you actually have? Not very many.

How many 3 year plans can you attempt? Depending on how old you are now, somewhere between 10 and 20. That's a lot, but it's a finite number, and then you're gone.

This can lead to indecision though, so maybe it is better to pick anything rather than nothing.
 

Antifragile

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That’s life my friend. That’s just life.
Do you want to “attempt” 10-20 3-year plans? Or do one or two things very well and live on your own terms? Focused effort is still the winning strategy IMO.
 

WJK

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Inflation will help pay off your debt though right? The key being that you need to make sure you have tenants, sales, or whatever it is your business does.
Inflation can also bury you IF you are over extended. And that's a delicate balance when you have debt.

During this last cycle, I watched a lot of people doing the BRRRR program with apartment buildings. They thought I was stupid because I was retiring debt while they were refinancing every property that they could. They kept explaining leverage to me and I kept explaining the 1990s RE market to them. Then the pandemic hit with it's restrictions on evictions and other disruptions...

But, I'm retired. I don't have year and years to give to starting over. Again. Self-funding my projects now works for me.

I'm spending a lot more right now on building materials and parts. Living in a rural area in Alaska really limits my resources. I bought 2 kitchen ranges yesterday for current tenants. They were last two our dealer had -- that we usually buy. And yes, the prices have gone up since I bought the last one 3 month ago. That model is on back order and the dealer doesn't know when he will receive more. I have also been buying extra building materials as I have found them. I don't know when I can buy them again, due to availability.
 

Kevin88660

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I have a real estate business and live on the cashflow. I quit my job earlier this year. I just found out that the mortgage company I use can get me $150,000 cash to refinance 2-3 houses. But, my debt-to-income ratio is too low to get a mortage, so I need to get a job.

A company tried to hire me earlier this year, but I declined. Six months later hey still haven't filled that position. It's work-from-home for now still. Pay will be $85,000 (after 6 months after taxes that would be $30,000 cash I could use to invest).

Do I go out and get a job just to get $150,000 (+ the paychecks)? That's a no-brainer. Yes, I do. I will. And I am. It's not fraud or anything. The problem is that I only need to have the job for a month or 2 in order to get my loan. And, as particular as they are about the person they hire, I'm happy they still want me, but I'm not usually the type of guy to quit within a few months (plus they had to pay a recruiter fee to find me).

If I end up hating the place and managers are jerks then quitting is easy. But, if it's decent, as an entrepreneur who values time over paychecks, how long do I work there before quitting? (Before quitting I'll offer them part-time. Three days a week I could do.) $85,000 is good in this lower socio-economic area. Is 6 months and a "I'm sorry this just isn't for me" good enough? Should I do 12 months? They seem to want someone really long term like 3 years or more and I'm not going to be that guy. So I feel bad that I'm using them just for a mortgage. But then again companies don't think twice about laying off people so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It just feels weird. Thoughts?
The best is calling your local bankers to know about the loan requirements.
 

Seamster

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Wow, some good replies here. Thanks, guys. As I'm sure someone would mention, I already know what I should do, but after reading this thread I feel more comfortable doing it. And quotes like this helped me (I know how to insert quotes now!):

Also, get the job. Decide later when is the right time to quit...
You're right. First things first, then make a thread like this! lol

If the economy gets bad enough, this company will get rid of you - and with no thought of a "minimum" amount of time that they need to employ you.

So, why do you feel like you need to give them some sort of minimum time commitment?

It is an exchange of work/results for a paycheck. No one is being coerced either way.
You're right. You're right. You're right! I need to not worry about this. They'd cut me loose in a heartbeat, just like my old company did (they had no idea I have my side business, or that I build it up to over $2000 cashflow/mo while working there!).

If you agree to do something, you should do it. If you tell the company you will stay for a year, you should keep your word.
Agreed. I keep my word. I'm not promising them or the recruiter who found me the job anything. I actually don't like the recruiter (third-party). He's pushy and kind of a dick, talking down to me. "You're gonna go in there and really wow them wearing a nice suit and white shirt and nice tie, right?" 'Uhh, no, I'll wear whatever *I* think is best to get the job. You're just the one that put me and the company together.' Also, I think if I quit within a certain time period he doesn't get all of his commission. ;)

Yes, he should keep his word.

Of course, if he does a kick-a$$ job & leaves them in a better situation than before he started then no harm no foul.
I'm planning on working at 75% capacity like I always do. Since most people work at 50% capacity I will be better than most, meaning the company will want me to stick around, offer a promotion, etc.

I'm a bit older than people at my last job where the average age was like 28. Work ethic is just not there with that generation, at least not in this area. I was the one who was promoted at my old job, even by not trying hard. What made me so special? I worked from 9 to 6, maybe even 6:30. Others? They left at 5:59. Were texting all day. Noted that they were bored. Managers notice that stuff. When I finished my work I sat and worked on my business stuff on the work computer. Everyone though I was still working.

No, he said "really long term, like 3 years". But I am with you...
a) if it were me, I wouldn't post this decision on the internet ;)
b) do what feels right in your heart, not what strangers say (it seems you have a heart)
c) long term is 10 years. Rally long term is 15-20. Just putting it out there.

6 months feels like a long weekend to some of us. Life is short - take action and live with your decisions.
"Long," "good," "tasty," "big," etc. are words whose meanings vary by speaker and listener. For me, any amount of time getting a job is long-term because I planned to never work again. And these days, for desk jobs in the manufacturing industry, 3 years is the new 20! If you want a raise of $10k you MUST transfer companies. People are leaving $60k jobs at Company A to make $70k at Company B and 2 years later come back to Company A for $80k. Not kidding. I know people who are doing it!

And yeah, I don't like screwing people over. The company will probably suck, but if I feel bad about quitting when the time comes I'll tell them I'll do PT. That will help them with training my replacement when the time comes. But the position has been vacant for so long they might not even notice! lol

And, about posting this online, I don't really care. Because all I really need is the job offer to get the morgage rolling. If he can process the mortgage in a week I could just not even start the job (but we all know how many months mortages can take. The one last year took me 4 months! Heck, after I get the mortgage I should print this off and put on HRs desk. Then they'll fire me and problems solved. Kidding, of course!

But how many years do you actually have? Not very many.

How many 3 year plans can you attempt? Depending on how old you are now, somewhere between 10 and 20. That's a lot, but it's a finite number, and then you're gone.

This can lead to indecision though, so maybe it is better to pick anything rather than nothing.
My comment here is a little off-topic, but I've actually thought about this. A LOT. I want to do real estate. I want to day trade stocks. I want to learn to code a smartphone app. I want to fix up and flip cars. I want to flip houses. I want to lend money. I want to do so many things, all that could make me money. But if I do each for 3 years I'll never be good an anything and never be rich. You say we have 10 3-year plans in our lifetimes? Most people have 0. Even guys like us have like 2-3, that is, if you're talking about get-rich plans. The time is there but the mental effort wanes in most people after a failure or two! That's why I'm sticking with the first thing I decided I wanted to do. Sure, I do things on the side, but rental income is my main cashflow, because I don't have time to work on the app, fix up cars, etc.
 

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My comment here is a little off-topic, but I've actually thought about this. A LOT. I want to do real estate. I want to day trade stocks. I want to learn to code a smartphone app. I want to fix up and flip cars. I want to flip houses. I want to lend money. I want to do so many things, all that could make me money. But if I do each for 3 years I'll never be good an anything and never be rich. You say we have 10 3-year plans in our lifetimes? Most people have 0. Even guys like us have like 2-3, that is, if you're talking about get-rich plans. The time is there but the mental effort wanes in most people after a failure or two! That's why I'm sticking with the first thing I decided I wanted to do. Sure, I do things on the side, but rental income is my main cashflow, because I don't have time to work on the app, fix up cars, etc.
RE is a long term commitment. If I walked away after 3 years, I would left a lot of stuff on the table. Setting up networks takes years of work and consideration. Very little of my work would have planted roots and produced fruit. The network that enjoy today would take about 20 years to replace. When I need something, I pick up the phone or go see someone who can help me. It's all based upon my reputation and past deeds. That good fortune is money in the bank for me!
 

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