Reddit r/WSB bankrupts Hedge Fund using Robinhood

[Roli]

You have a strange definition of the word fast.
View attachment 36529

Lol. This is what happens when you use Google as a teacher, but you don't actually click on the headline.
As you can see below it was adopted by the American financial markets in 1937 with the restriction that you could only short a rising stock.

That restriction was removed in 2007 (albeit as the last in a long line of regs getting 86ed since the Reagan era) and in 2008 the world had gone to shit because of the banks wallowing around like pigs in sh*t and creating a crisis that could have been avoided with better regulation.

So yeah, I call that pretty fast.

• The SEC adopted Rule 10a-1 in 1937, which stated market participants could legally sell short shares of stock only if it occurred on a price uptick from the previous sale.
• The uptick rule was eliminated in 2007, following a yearslong study that concluded that the regulation did little to curb abusive behavior and had the potential to limit market liquidity.

If you're actually interested in finding out more than just a headline, start by clicking the link below.

Why Is Short Selling Legal? A Brief History

Despite short selling's legal status and its apparent market benefits, many policymakers, regulators, and the public remain suspicious of the practice.

www.investopedia.com

 

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[AFMKelvin]

You are correct on this you can make it difficult if you don't use them. The more you use the more they can determine who is using it. Digital fingerprints.

Not with crypto. You can use tumblers every time you send a transaction. Tor to keep your transaction anonymous. I mean if you're so paranoid you don't even need to digitally send crypto to anyone. Morse code or pigeon mail your keys.

 

[lludwig]

Not with crypto. You can use tumblers every time you send a transaction. Tor to keep your transaction anonymous. I mean if you're so paranoid you don't even need to digitally send money to anyone. Morse code or pigeon mail your wallet seed to someone.

If you are sending between a friend or doing something illegal sure. There are no reporting requirements.

If it's a business with a physical product that must be shipped to you how can you keep it 100% anonymous? Even with a digital product with a business.

A business must already report many things to the IRS. Why couldn't there be a reporting requirement for any purchase with a cryptocurrency? Yes, this isn't the case now (for the ones that support crypto) but we are discussing if the government wants to control it.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Every comment by @lludwig in thread:


back on topic. stonks only go up

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Every comment by @lludwig in thread:

I don't see it that way.

@csalvato...

Serious question.

When the FBI breaks down your door and arrests you for "d0m3stIc t3rr0rIsm" (because for the last 9 months, CNN and FOX has brainwashed the public that BTC owners are terr0ri5sts) what help is it that your digital wallet is secure? Will the FBI stand down and say, "Oh, you have a secure digital wallet! Let me take these handcuffs off ya!"

If the government wants to jail you for "financing d0m3stIc t3rr0rIsm" and then throw you in jail for it they can. And then they book a hearing with a crooked judge ensuring you are squeezed, what good does a digital wallet with $10M BTC stored in some ditch help you? Sure your wallet is safe.

But that doesn't help you sitting in Leavenworth

Coinbase has a record of all my crypto transactions.

When I made trades on Binance and Bittrex, they asked for my drivers license. To suggest that some central power with all the spying resources cant do a simple origin trace ($USD > BTC) and find (or plant) some nefarious evidence that BTC is being used to "finance d0m3stIc terr0rI5m" is not paying attention. When I buy BTC, the funding comes from my linked bank account, it isn't a cash transaction in some back alley.

You can also bet that the IR.S will make damn sure that transactions are taxed -- tax evasion is ALREADY punishable by jail-time.

If BTC transactions are made illegal, the security of your coins is irrelevant. All they need to do is prove that you own it and have made transactions (I'm assuming originating from a Federally Insured bank account?) -- then it's off the slammer.

Right now the biggest threat to digital assets is WHO they threaten.

And guess who that is?

Your trusty government.

 

[lludwig]

Every comment by @lludwig in thread:

View attachment 36576
back on topic. stonks only go up

LOL, that's a good laugh.

It's great to see this from a 23-year-old.

Though I'll look back a few years from now at the crypto and stock bubble and laugh even more. This keeps proving my theory. We are in store for rough times ahead.

 

[csalvato]

@MJ DeMarco You make good points, of course.

I don't agree with all of them. Breakdown below...

When the FBI breaks down your door and arrests you for "d0m3stIc t3rr0rIsm" (because for the last 9 months, CNN and FOX has brainwashed the public that BTC owners are terr0ri5sts) what help is it that your digital wallet is secure? Will the FBI stand down and say, "Oh, you have a secure digital wallet! Let me take these handcuffs off ya!"

...

If BTC transactions are made illegal, the security of your coins is irrelevant. All they need to do is prove that you own it and have made transactions (I'm assuming originating from a Federally Insured bank account?) -- then it's off the slammer.

The argument isn't that my keys are safe and secure, thus the FBI will let me go. It means it cannot be seized. It cannot be removed from my wallets without them finding my keys, or extracting them from me.

Compare this to your brokerage account, safe deposit boxes in your bank, or your bank account. The government makes a phone call and that money is no longer yours.

So what are the practical steps that the government or an oppressive force can take, then?

1. Detainment
2. Torture
3. Threat of death (aka gun to your head)
4. Threat of death to your family

For 2, 3 or 4 to happen, it means that the government descends into full on nazi-level authoritarianism where they are incarcerating, torturing and exterminating a whole class of people who own an asset (which would legitimately cause WW3, as it caused WW2).

I think this has a probability of happening, but it's extremely small.

That means the only practical measure they will have is detainment.

So, in one scenario, they detain thousands (millions??) of people who aren't willing to hand over their wealth. Then, as we sit in our cells, the price of the illegal asset soars, making it well worth the hassle of sitting in jail.

I can get rich and stand up for liberty at the same time?

What a win.

In another scenario, they choose to make an example of a select few people, which gives folks like me time to sort out how they are going to skirt the rules until the gov't realizes this level of regulation isn't worth it.

The logistics behind arranging and enforcing such a ban are impractical, at best. Most likely, impossible.

Far more likely, I just say I lost my keys recently and can't access those funds anymore. Can they prove I haven't?

On top of that, the probability of this scenario is highly unlikely. Many of our top regulators and lawmakers now come from a crypto background.

The odds of such an oppressive ban means it is < 1% chance of the detainment situation, and less than 0.01% chance of the government threatening to kill my family.

Seems like a risk worth taking.

Right now the biggest threat to digital assets is WHO they threaten.

And guess who that is?

Your trusty government.

Definitely.

I also agree that anyone who thinks BTC is anonymous by default is naive.

BTC has been terrific for the FBI - it makes investigations much easier (which is why Cash is still king among illicit actors).

I agree that governments around the world will impose harsh bans and restrictions because of the threat it poses to them.

I disagree that this presents a probable scenario where I need to be worried about detainment or death.

 

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[MA81]

 

[Cyberthal]

Bitcoin lacks privacy. This is a design flaw. It will not be the ultimate one true cryptocoin.

 

[AFMKelvin]

I don't see it that way.

@csalvato...

Serious question.

When the FBI breaks down your door and arrests you for "d0m3stIc t3rr0rIsm" (because for the last 9 months, CNN and FOX has brainwashed the public that BTC owners are terr0ri5sts) what help is it that your digital wallet is secure? Will the FBI stand down and say, "Oh, you have a secure digital wallet! Let me take these handcuffs off ya!"

If the government wants to jail you for "financing d0m3stIc t3rr0rIsm" and then throw you in jail for it they can. And then they book a hearing with a crooked judge ensuring you are squeezed, what good does a digital wallet with $10M BTC stored in some ditch help you? Sure your wallet is safe.

But that doesn't help you sitting in Leavenworth

Coinbase has a record of all my crypto transactions.

When I made trades on Binance and Bittrex, they asked for my drivers license. To suggest that some central power with all the spying resources cant do a simple origin trace ($USD > BTC) and find (or plant) some nefarious evidence that BTC is being used to "finance d0m3stIc terr0rI5m" is not paying attention. When I buy BTC, the funding comes from my linked bank account, it isn't a cash transaction in some back alley.

You can also bet that the IR.S will make damn sure that transactions are taxed -- tax evasion is ALREADY punishable by jail-time.

If BTC transactions are made illegal, the security of your coins is irrelevant. All they need to do is prove that you own it and have made transactions (I'm assuming originating from a Federally Insured bank account?) -- then it's off the slammer.

Right now the biggest threat to digital assets is WHO they threaten.

And guess who that is?

Your trusty government.

If the FBI is breaking down your doors and framing you for domestic terrorism than is no longer about Bitcoins. The original question was, how can your bitcoins be seized? And the answer is, they can never be seized. They can kill you but they'll never seize your bitcoin.

Cryptocurrency is already taxed.

Bitcoin lacks privacy. This is a design flaw. It will not be the ultimate one true cryptocoin.

There's plenty of ways to use bitcoin anonymously. It's already the ultimate crypto. Bitcoin will always be king because it was the first, the one everyone knows about and the most used.

 

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[BizyDad]

Lol. This is what happens when you use Google as a teacher, but you don't actually click on the headline.
As you can see below it was adopted by the American financial markets in 1937 with the restriction that you could only short a rising stock.

That restriction was removed in 2007 (albeit as the last in a long line of regs getting 86ed since the Reagan era) and in 2008 the world had gone to shit because of the banks wallowing around like pigs in sh*t and creating a crisis that could have been avoided with better regulation.

So yeah, I call that pretty fast.

• The SEC adopted Rule 10a-1 in 1937, which stated market participants could legally sell short shares of stock only if it occurred on a price uptick from the previous sale.
• The uptick rule was eliminated in 2007, following a yearslong study that concluded that the regulation did little to curb abusive behavior and had the potential to limit market liquidity.

If you're actually interested in finding out more than just a headline, start by clicking the link below.

Why Is Short Selling Legal? A Brief History

Despite short selling's legal status and its apparent market benefits, many policymakers, regulators, and the public remain suspicious of the practice.

www.investopedia.com

Speaking of not reading source material, that was terrible fact checking on your part.

From the very beginning article you shared:

"The practice of short selling was one of the central issues studied by Congress before enacting the Securities and Exchange Act in 1934, but Congress made no judgments about its permissibility."

Short selling was in practice before 1937.

If you've done your homework, you'll know it was denounced by Truman in '32 after the events of '29. Basically, short selling is one of the reasons the SEC got set up in the first place.

'37 simply represents the first regulation of the practice which had been around for centuries at that point. 1609 is the first documented case, no further reading was necessary.

In other words, investors have been betting on companies to lose for centuries, and we formalized a process for it some 80+ years ago. Really went downhill fast...

Still, if I understand you correctly, the deregulation of financial markets that took place over 3 decades and 4 administrations triggered a fast collapse in mortgage backed securities - an investment vehicle which never had regulation to begin with and still doesn't.

Shoot, by your logic, that lack of regulation means MBS doesn't exist...

To sum up, short selling was not a gift from the government to be adopted in 1937. The government doesn't create financial innovations. Investors do. The government is often, dare I say always, late to realize the ramifications of the innovation.

Anyways, this is relatively pointless history lesson in an otherwise good thread. Maybe next time, just take a joke. It was funny.

 

[BizyDad]

And the answer is, they can never be seized.

I think I've read about wallets being hacked and people losing millions. Can't hackers seize bitcoin?

Alternatively, there's that recent story about the guy that wants to go to the dump and dig up his old hard drive. So for those who store it locally, that medium could be seized. Doesn't that amount to essentially the same thing?

I keep hearing "it's impossible" and wondering to myself, is it really though?

I am asking out of genuine ignorance. The tangent keeps getting brought up in this thread, so I thought I'd finally just ask.

 

[AFMKelvin]

I think I've read about wallets being hacked and people losing millions. Can't hackers seize bitcoin?

Alternatively, there's that recent story about the guy that wants to go to the dump and dig up his old hard drive. So for those who store it locally, that medium could be seized. Doesn't that amount to essentially the same thing?

I keep hearing "it's impossible" and wondering to myself, is it really though?

I am asking out of genuine ignorance. The tangent keeps getting brought up in this thread, so I thought I'd finally just ask.

There's different ways to store your bitcoin. You can store them offline and online. Most of the "hacking" that you hear about is hackers getting access to a persons online exchange account like coinbase which is not a wallet. But most people are too lazy to transfer them to an actual wallet. So a hacker only needs the password to your coinbase account to get your bitcoins.

But if you have a real Bitcoin wallet its impossible to hack because you need a unique key.

The medium is not the wallet. The wallet is your private bitcoin key which is just random words. If you can memorize those words in your head the wallet would be in your brain. They can steal the hardware but without the private key they're not getting your bitcoin. That's the beauty of bitcoin is just a giant ledger all you have to do is remember where in that ledger your bitcoins are to retrieve them.

 

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[Kid]

There's nothing illegal with what reddit did. If it was illegal to talk about stocks than why do Hedge Funds go on TV and talk about how the stocks will perform?

lol, a hedge fund trying to force a company to go bankrupt that would make all their employees jobless lost billions due to their unhedged greedy bet turned against them, cry me a river

Didn't read whole thread maybe someone answered such comments already.
If not:
@ kevin - nice trick! Following your logic its perfectly legal to convince someone to commit crime by just by talking to them. Its just "talk".
You're shifting definitions.

And for you NCNY - you seem to be kind of revolutionist, same as those who raided Capitol.
Do you know that telling other to do justice on their own or doing justice on your own is a crime? Probably federal one.
You might have all arguments why you should do this.
But its still a crime.
Want to try?
How about this:
if you had really good reason, you know, the one that you sob so about,
guess what judge would tell you and do.

Do you need time to think?

Do you really think he would say: "Ok, you're such a just man, set him free"
You might be a bit confused right now, so i will tell you what he would do.
Instead of sending you to prison for 16 years he would send you there for 15 years.

If he would have a good day.

Something tells me that you are a type of a person who would find it a great bargain.

 

[csalvato]

I think I've read about wallets being hacked and people losing millions. Can't hackers seize bitcoin?

Alternatively, there's that recent story about the guy that wants to go to the dump and dig up his old hard drive. So for those who store it locally, that medium could be seized. Doesn't that amount to essentially the same thing?

I keep hearing "it's impossible" and wondering to myself, is it really though?

I am asking out of genuine ignorance. The tangent keeps getting brought up in this thread, so I thought I'd finally just ask.

Good questions.

When you hear about hackers getting into wallets, they are taking advantage of several attack vectors that don't exist if you use a modern hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger Nano S/X.

Here's how hackers can steal the money out of a wallet:

1. They socially engineer a situation where you willingly give them the keys (i.e. a phishing scam). Solution: don't give anyone your keys. For inheritance purposes, provide a physical copy of an "if i die" document with your trusted parties (like your spouse, or the executor of your will).
2. You use a software wallet stored on a computer that's connected to the internet and malware or a targeted attack can simply read the keys from your hard drive. Solution: don't rely on software wallets; particularly on machines connected to the internet.
3. You are being targeted by hackers who have installed a key logger on your device, and when they see something that looks like a BTC private key, they try to use it and succeed. Solution: Use a wallet that doesn't require you to type your private key on your computer.
4. The software you use to manage your hardware or software wallet has been hacked, so that when you go to send BTC, it hijacks the send (or shows you an incorrect public address) to send your address to the wrong place. Solution: Use a wallet like Trezor or Ledger that makes you verify keys on the physical wallet device, not your internet-connected computer.
5. The "wallet" is really a wallet on a central exchange like Mt. Gox. The exchange was hacked, and the hackers sent funds from the web UI. Solution: Don't store significant sums on central exchanges for very long

There are other attack vectors here, but basically it boils down to a few things:

1. Use a hardware wallet that eliminates all attack vectors
2. Keep your funds off of a centralized exchange whenever possible
3. Always double check the keys on the hardware wallet with whatever software is displaying to you.
4. Don't store your keys on an internet connected device, unless it's in an encrypted file.

If you follow those 4 steps, it's impossible to hack your wallet and get your coins without you being willing (barring any massive F*ckup on your part, like sending a picture of your 24 key passphrase to your wife in a text message).

 

[csalvato]

Alternatively, there's that recent story about the guy that wants to go to the dump and dig up his old hard drive. So for those who store it locally, that medium could be seized. Doesn't that amount to essentially the same thing?

I realize I didn't address this question.

In cases like this, the person is using a software wallet, and then accidentally disposed the hard drive that contains the private keys. That's the only record of the private keys they kept, so it's gone forever unless that device is found.

This is a common story from people who were using BTC in the early days and mining BTC for the lulz and getting like 100BTC a day (at a value of 1¢ or less).

So they totally forgot about the wallet, but they remember they mined a ton of BTC which is now on a software wallet that they will do anything to get back.

In short, if you are concerned about people taking your BTC in 2021 and using a hardware wallet, someone who finds your wallet in the trash can't just access the funds within.

If this is something that really interests you, I suggest you buy a Ledger Nano S and like $200 in BTC, and transfer it to the wallet, and then back.

The whole experiment will take you maybe an hour (including purchasing the hardware wallet on amazon, and setting up the device), and will cost less than $100, including the cost of the wallet.

 

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[GPM]

I am just throwing this out there. If you had millions of dollars in your crypto wallet and your government is getting to the point where they are going to lock you up over it, what the hell are you still doing in that country?

The world is a big place, and I think that a primary reason for even gathering wealth is to allow for the ability to choose where you want to live. Tyrannical governments (Canada is getting awfully close to this) automatically put it in the "don't live here" list. There is a slim-to-none chance of me living in Canada full time in the next 5 years due to the way this country's government is heading.

 

[lludwig]

I am just throwing this out there. If you had millions of dollars in your crypto wallet and your government is getting to the point where they are going to lock you up over it, what the hell are you still doing in that country?

The world is a big place, and I think that a primary reason for even gathering wealth is to allow for the ability to choose where you want to live. Tyrannical governments (Canada is getting awfully close to this) automatically put it in the "don't live here" list. There is a slim-to-none chance of me living in Canada full time in the next 5 years due to the way this country's government is heading.

I'm not against this idea, though honestly what is the best horse in the glue factory?

 

[Cyberthal]

There's plenty of ways to use bitcoin anonymously. It's already the ultimate crypto. Bitcoin will always be king because it was the first, the one everyone knows about and the most used.

I won't attempt to refute this, because it takes an order of magnitude more effort to refute falsehood than to generate it, and I wouldn't want to add thereto by doing a sloppy job. However, it is wrong on all counts, which is why I have added the source to my ignore list.

I've read that law enforcement already uses the open ledger to dox obfuscated Bitcoin transactions.

 

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[AFMKelvin]

Didn't read whole thread maybe someone answered such comments already.

I won't attempt to refute this, because it takes an order of magnitude more effort to refute falsehood than to generate it, and I wouldn't want to add thereto by doing a sloppy job. However, it is wrong on all counts, which is why I have added the source to my ignore list.

I've read that law enforcement already uses the open ledger to dox obfuscated Bitcoin transactions.

Cool story bro. Keep reading.

 

[James Fake]

All I see here is polarism. Have you noticed the clash of generations getting stronger and stronger? Except that it's mostly Boomers vs. any generation Millennials and under.

If you take a look at those completely against WSB and want to see it's failure; there is an obvious generational gap. One could even go as far as to say; it's Boomers vs. Younger Investors in general when saying WSB vs. retail investors.

It's because as Millennials; we saw as juveniles what 2008 did to us personally, family, friends, etc. (Some even their parents getting f'ed by 1999 and even 9/11). We carry intense hatred to those (and the "system") not punished from that as many was left for dead, and/or scraping and fighting for jobs as we literally entered the work force as things were complete shit. Amongst hundreds of other reasons; at one point, the Silent and Great Generation looked and hated how the Boomers moved as well. (That's not to say all Boomers, as I've met quite a few that was caught on the wrong side of the 2008 fence and are way more intensely fighting with WSB than even I)

It's nothing new though; it's how humans evolve. As the upcoming generation begins taking the "dominant" generation; this same clash always happens. Eventually, progression aka adaption to 'environment change' wins. Because we as humans; unlike any other animal species, we don't adapt to our environment, we make the environment adapt to us.

No shots, but it's biological. At a certain point; the mind stops accepting change including any environmental change. ("You can't teach an old dog tricks") And why would it? It makes sense.. Whatever they've done has obviously worked great for survival for decades and decades, and even (for ones here especially) thriving and propelling them to success. But with that is a double-edged sword, the inability to adapt or change the environment becomes stronger and stronger.

And this is something that I, myself, will even face one day with my own children.

Eventually; there will be a robot standing over me that could easily snap my neck with it's functional arms as I wake up and ask me a really personal question that obviously my kids sent the request for it to do. Am I comfortable with that now? NO. But.... it WILL happen one day.

Not sure if anyone owns a Tesla in here; but when I first drove a Tesla and put it on auto-pilot mode; I was skeptical, and scared af. I was putting the sole trust of my life in this machine in the middle of an 6 lane interstate. My sphincter still hasn't recovered from the intensity of that ride. And even I, as technologically progressive as I think I am, was shitting bricks as I tried to accept change.

And just like that personal freaky robot just starring at me all day... one day, EV and autonomous driving WILL be the future... and well within my generation.

Rinse and repeat.

"DAD, ITS FINE!!! UGH... JUST PUT IT ON AUTO-AUTO-PILOT RIGHT NOW AND STICK YOUR HEAD INTO THE VR SET. YOU'RE MISSING YOUR GRAND KID'S PRECIOUS FIRST MOMENTS. THE CAR IS NOT GOING TO CRASH WHILE YOU AREN'T LOOKING".

And as for crypto-currency; the argument of "being stolen by govt" will be null when eventually; just like privacy invading home robots and pure auto pilot cars, blockchain will eventually run on a true peer-to-peer network where internet is not needed. Information will exchange on a blockchain from being within proximity of another (a super charged blue tooth/air drop). Real time updated info, no internet. Will Bitcoin go into a bear market before then making the "watch yall kids get shitted on by that bubble" a true statement? Probably... but by then; we'll have shifted money into whatever else is coming up. It's not always how you get up from a fall, but it's also how you catch your self while falling.

I think we're arguing about an infancy tech that is literally still on dial-up connection while discussing the topic of 'streaming movies'. And I, was most definitely not thinking as I was in an AOL chatroom asking a/s/l that one day I would have my entire movie catalog on there.

With ALL that said...

GME squeeze is still on. Massive exit of Robberhood to Fidelity with exception of GME, AMC stocks already bought on Robberhood is staying til this is over and sold.

Will this tank the market? Sure... once literally EVERYONE and their mama quits calling for a market crash. If it's one thing; people can't time the top for shit.. and it's gonna prove itself once again. Where were these same folks in February 2020? No where... because I (and only a few others) were the only idiots standing there yelling about Covid and how its gonna crash the market, and I was the lone sheep looking stupid. If it's one true proven rule in markets, it's that it never does what the majority predict it will (and certainly especially in the short terms).

The market crash comes when These same people flip and change their tune. Could it happen over the next week. Sure, it could and I'll be watching for these same folks to capitulate into buying and/or completely forgetting about their current bearish sentiment. But for this upcomig week? I think it's wayyyy too many people hating and wanting to see WSB's failure and shorting and Putting thinking they are the Big Short and blindlessly ignoring fundamentals: The same people they hate may possibly get $1200 more, and interest rates remain 0%, and no slowing down of behind the scenes QE including all the backdoor QE happening overseas.

 

[csalvato]

I won't attempt to refute this, because it takes an order of magnitude more effort to refute falsehood than to generate it, and I wouldn't want to add thereto by doing a sloppy job. However, it is wrong on all counts, which is why I have added the source to my ignore list.

I've read that law enforcement already uses the open ledger to dox obfuscated Bitcoin transactions.

Oddly enough, you're both right.

@kelvinfernandezm is right that you can set up a BTC wallet, never KYC, and anonymously use it for whatever you want, and it's possible no one would ever know who you are (just the Tx and Rx that have gone through that address).

@Cyberthal is right, that this isn't true in practice even if you never KYC'd. If you are a person of interest, the investigator (let's say the FBI, for example), has a full list of all the Tx and Rx that you performed.

When they are trying to determine who a wallet belongs to, they create a "ring of fire" around the wallet with the unknown address, and interview all the people who are KYC'd and transacted with you.

When they are trying to determine which wallet is yours, they investigate who you talk to and interact with, and look at their wallets. When they eliminate the other wallet addresses, they can likely determine which wallet is yours based on the interviews and data from your interactions with those people around you.

So @kelvinfernandezm is technically right, and @Cyberthal is practically correct.

It's also important to recognize how much more of a hassle this is for a government investigator. They have to do a ton of legwork to figure out who you are vs. the current financial system where they simply make a phone call and shut you down.

Also, if privacy is paramount to you, there are several privacy coins (like Monero) that you can use to tumble BTC or use entirely in lieu of BTC.

The FBI has openly said that criminals who use Monero present the most problems for them:

Leaked FBI Docs Show Just How Easily They Track Bitcoin - And The Untraceable Coin They're Frustrated With...

Cryptocurrency News Live and Breaking in Real-Time! Current crypto coin prices, analysis, and predictions from the Global Crypto Press Association.

www.globalcryptopress.com

 

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[AFMKelvin]

@Cyberthal is right, that this isn't true in practice even if you never KYC'd. If you are a person of interest, the investigator (let's say the FBI, for example), has a full list of all the Tx and Rx that you performed.

When they are trying to determine who a wallet belongs to, they create a "ring of fire" around the wallet with the unknown address, and interview all the people who are KYC'd and transacted with you.

When they are trying to determine which wallet is yours, they investigate who you talk to and interact with, and look at their wallets. When they eliminate the other wallet addresses, they can likely determine which wallet is yours based on the interviews and data from your interactions with those people around you.

If you get to a point where the government is making a "ring of fire" around your wallet than you have bigger problems than been anonymous. You're on their radar for something beyond crypto currency. Something 99% of people in the world will never have to deal with.

But just to drive the point home when people that don't know about cryptocurrencies talk about bitcoin they're referring to the blockchain. I can think of five different crypto currencies off the top of my head that are based on anonymity. If you want to be private and anonymous with cryptos you'll find a way.

 

[Kak]

I fully side with @GPM about getting out.

Irrespective of the logistics and feasibility of a "bitcoin ban" I definitely consider that a bearish force on it no matter where you are living.

If the US, Canada, or European economies decide they don't like competition, and decide to start discussing the use of their monopoly powers, I don't care if I lived on that solid gold asteroid I want so much, I would not be buying BTC.

Don't get me wrong, I like crypto, but it is naive to think governments can't, at least, make your life hell trying to keep this cat in the bag. They don't even really need to ban it... All they HAVE to do is crash the price to screw up the much needed widespread adoption.

 

[AFMKelvin]

I fully side with @GPM about getting out.

Irrespective of the logistics and feasibility of a "bitcoin ban" I definitely consider that a bearish force on it no matter where you are living.

If the US, Canada, or European economies decide they don't like competition, and decide to start discussing the use of their monopoly powers, I don't care if I lived on that solid gold asteroid I want so much, I would not be buying BTC.

Don't get me wrong, I like crypto, but it is naive to think governments can't, at least, make your life hell trying to keep this cat in the bag. They don't even really need to ban it... All they HAVE to do is crash the price to screw up the much needed widespread adoption.

Black markets have always existed. If bitcoin is banned it'll go up in price.

 

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[Cyberthal]

Welp guess it's too late to buy silver.

Web Maintenance :: Kitco.com

I just saw a graph that showed how silver's price hasn't budged while other assets have inflated 100-200% or something ridiculous.

So yeah... Keynes' supervolcano clears its throat.

 

[James Fake]

Just FYI; Elon Musk on Clubhouse right now if anyone is interested..

 

[James Fake]

Ohh.. juicy. Now Vlad (Robinhood CEO) on Clubhouse speaking with Elon Musk on WTF happened/happening.

Really meaty info being exchanged right now.

 

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[csalvato]

Ohh.. juicy. Now Vlad (Robinhood CEO) on Clubhouse speaking with Elon Musk on WTF happened/happening.

Really meaty info being exchanged right now.

So if you don't have access to a Clubhouse invite, I take it you're SOL?

 

[James Fake]

So if you don't have access to a Clubhouse invite, I take it you're SOL?

Yeah, I think each user gets 2 invites. PM and I got'cha!