The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

HOT TOPIC Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

Remove ads while supporting the Unscripted philosophy...become an INSIDER.

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #1

Utopia

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 7, 2016
105
166
149
Traveling
I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Andy Black

Figuring it out as I go along!
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
9,147
38,371
4,306
Ireland
I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
I like to think there’s two parts to having a successful business: adding value AND getting paid.



I shovelled snow from a lot of neighbours drives today. I added a lot of value for when that snow turns to ice.

I didn’t get paid though, because I didn’t ask to get paid.



This evening I also cut a client’s recurring invoice in half. He didn’t ask me to. I just don’t think he’s getting enough value from his results to justify him paying the full fee.

I don’t like getting paid without adding value.



What we need to do is kinda simple really:

Add value. Get paid.
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
29,692
104,253
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
Have you read Unscripted?

Because I discuss all of this in that book so I'm not going into big detail here...

Basically, you're confusing PERCEIVED VALUE (guru BS), RELATIVE VALUE (real value), and just plain old VALUE.

Yes, not all VALUE is rewarded the same.

I can stand on a street corner and give out $100 bills for $10...

Am I providing VALUE?

Yup.

Am I being rewarded with profit?

Nope.
 

cmor16

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Oct 30, 2016
396
1,314
419
47
Nova Scotia, Canada
My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.
Did you confuse value with giving away free stuff?

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder.
I don't see that as a problem. It's just a fact.
I see a painting and I determine that I would pay $2000 for it. You see that same painting and determine that you wouldn't take it, even if it was free.

Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer.
 

Smith11B

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Nov 7, 2013
55
189
145
31
I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
I worked for a guru. Lets just say he was a lot like Russ. Teaching the exact same stuff. He actually paid for me to go through Russ's course. I can tell you without a doubt because I was behind the scenes that his stuff created 100+ millionaires in the last year. If that is not value, I do not know what is.

Now I am not vouching for gurus but not all of them are B.S. Russ is not one of them who is, in my opinion. Did I personally become a millionaire through it? No. I never applied it. But I did apply it to about 100 of my clients and it works.

That being said. I also met a lot of people like you that thought "providing value" was the same as putting out great free content.

When you provide value. It does not have to be for free. That's really the only distinction you need to make.

If you just convince people to give you money for nothing you are a great con artist. Not a businessman. Some of that applies to gurus. Some of it doesn't.

Con artist can make good money sure.

But Bezos provided value. Gates? Value. Jobs? Value. Zucks? Walton? Croc? Lemonis? Cuban?

All value. They just asked to be paid for it.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #6
OP
OP
U

Utopia

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 7, 2016
105
166
149
Traveling
I don't see that as a problem. It's just a fact.
I see a painting and I determine that I would pay $2000 for it. You see that same painting and determine that you wouldn't take it, even if it was free.

Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer.
The problem lies with us judging it. Like this:

This evening I also cut a client’s recurring invoice in half. He didn’t ask me to. I just don’t think he’s getting enough value from his results to justify him paying the full fee.

I don’t like getting paid without adding value.
When we say something should be free or it should be worth x amount of dollars that is our judgment. This judgment takes place all the way from $2 ebooks to $10,000 masterminds and there is only really one judgment that matters, the market's.

This is what I found when I started charging my group. I decided that it is worth x amount of dollars for me to do (supply and demand equation - I will provide x amount of services at y price) and then 20% of the group was convinced of that price.

I worked for a guru. Lets just say he was a lot like Russ. Teaching the exact same stuff. He actually paid for me to go through Russ's course. I can tell you without a doubt because I was behind the scenes that his stuff created 100+ millionaires in the last year. If that is not value, I do not know what is.
I'm sure it sounded like I was dogging Russ and all that he does. To your point I do see some great things that they are helping create. The women who helps people get into graduate school and all that comes to mind first. That's tremendous value for them.

What is difficult for me is that I said I would never do MLMs because you are signing up your friends or others knowing that most of them are going to fail. It's also what I am seeing in other businesses and even for the people who I have provided my free services for. Maybe just a fact of life.

Basically, you're confusing PERCEIVED VALUE (guru BS), RELATIVE VALUE (real value), and just plain old VALUE.
From what you have here, these are all judgments. Judgments are subject to the fallacy of human interpretation and subject to deletions, distortions, and generalizations. In addition, one's interpretation of value is vastly different to another's so to get any accurate assertion of what value is from these words here is almost impossible.

What is true is the gurus pushing this idea of value=money. They do it so that you can feel good by "getting value" from them and then paying them. Yet, this idea is just not true.

To @Andy Black 's point it might be better if we mix the two and actually provide value, but it's not necessary. This can be proved:

But Bezos provided value. Gates? Value. Jobs? Value. Zucks? Walton? Croc? Lemonis? Cuban?
I like the examples. What about Tesla? The man who had a superior product, one that would have provided more value than that of Edison, yet Edison along with JP Morgan were the ones who derived the money and Tesla ended up poor, pursuing his scientific achievements for the value that they would bring. Source: 48 Laws of Power.

An even better example is the stock trader who becomes wealthy. There is no "Perceived" or "Relative" value added here. There is a transaction where someone convinces him to buy something, and then he convinces someone else to buy at a higher price. Thus money comes from convincing someone to give you money. Not from adding value.

My whole point in all this is adding value is great, yet it is not necessary to obtaining money. This goes contrary to what some are trying to do here, but this is what happens in the real world whether we like it or not.

Sorry MJ read your first book, haven't gotten through the new one. It's not because it wouldn't add value to my life, it's because you haven't convinced me of the value that it would add.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 6, 2016
1,482
10,759
2,416
Wowzer.

Every single person that makes money provides value in one form or another.

Every. Single. Person.

From the wealthiest men on the planet, to the guys that come in and clean the toilets. ALL OF THEM.

Do people make money selling "value" that turns out to be total lies? Yup. 401(k)'s are a good example of that.

Is providing value in some fashion required to get wealthy? YES.
Is providing value based on good intentions required to get wealthy? No.

Also,

You can't use people like Nikola Tesla as an example of how value doesn't make you rich.

Tesla was an idiot in my book. 700+ patents and the guy was seemingly so far into the "money is the root of all evil" fallacy that he never attempted to have any monetary gain from his tremendous value, even at the expense of being able to continue to provide value!

He died poor, and that's his own damn fault, regardless of society's constant attempts to make him a martyr for the "good of the human race" versus "evil rich guy" narrative.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 6, 2016
1,482
10,759
2,416
An even better example is the stock trader who becomes wealthy. There is no "Perceived" or "Relative" value added here. There is a transaction where someone convinces him to buy something, and then he convinces someone else to buy at a higher price. Thus money comes from convincing someone to give you money. Not from adding value.
Relative value for a stock trader:

I own stock and wish to sell it. Joe Blow stock trader buys it from me, and gives me his cash.

He provided me value in the form of taking the small piece of ownership I had in a public company and giving me his cash.

Since he wanted to buy those shares, I also provided him with relative value in the form of selling him shares that he found to be acceptably priced.

You'll realize the relative value of a stock trader the first time you hold a stock that is crashing in price, you want to unload it, and you can't get a fill on your sell order.
 

ksc23

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jul 30, 2014
222
695
269
US
Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
Convincing others to give you money sounds pretty hard to me.

It may be easier if you had something to offer them in exchange.

Perhaps something... valuable?

If you wanted to create a business with recurring cashflow, a product/service that provides satisfaction and generates positive word-of-mouth (as opposed to complaints and fraud reports to the BBB) sounds like a good idea.

And the fact that value is subjective is awesome - that just means a bigger pie of opportunity for all types of entrepreneurs. I have no need or interest for bras, vegan foods, VR headsets, tanning products, etc.. but I'm glad those markets exist.

Also your stock trader example makes no sense.

I don't understand how you 'convince' someone to buy your stocks at a higher price. Others will buy if they decide for themselves they want to buy at your offered price.

Your P/L as a trader depends on how accurately you can perceive reality and how well you can consistently execute your strategy. The 'value' a trader adds is aiding liquidity and price discovery (and perhaps taking on risk). If your judgment was more accurate and execution more superior compared to others in the market, well done, you earned your profit.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 25, 2007
6,894
31,669
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
Let’s say a book has some information. If 10 people read it and 1 person uses the information and improves his life while the other 9 have no life change, did the book provide value?

The book is the same, no information has changed inside it. The value is not determined by the info or object. It’s determined by the person using it.
 

GMSI7D

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 27, 2016
993
1,913
547
43
Lyon, France
If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.


Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

value is like electricity.

electricity is a move of electrons from point A to point B

a battery is flat when balance has been established inside of it between point A and B .

same thing with awareness. we think Tony Robbins is a god because we are naive

----> but when we are aware, Tony Robbins teaching will seem like childish nonsense.

balance is established


no value anymore , like the flat battery



this is true for any level of mastery in life : physical, spiritual , whatever

so if you want people to think that you offer value, make sure that they are as dumb as possible in the first place

this is what gurus do : targetting the right "naive guy"




.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

WJK

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 9, 2017
927
2,117
542
Nikiski, Alaska
I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
This myth, this cloud over your head, about value = money is along the same lines as "Follow your passion, and the money will come to you." It's all popular smelly stuff that is substituted for the truth.

Yes, you must exchange something of value for money.

Yes, you do need to create a following in order to create a cash flow opportunity. And it sounds like you have done a good job on that front.

Yes, then you have monetize the value that you are providing to that following, in order to turn that value into your cash flow. And you need to specifically direct that cash flow toward your business and bank account. That's the step you're stuck on right now. You don't have to "convince" anyone to do anything. You have to offer your product that has value to your established following in exchange for money. A percentage of them will be glad to pay you for time and talents.

Someone in your life has given you a money message that is playing through all of your effort to build your business. Making money is NOT a bad thing. It's a good thing. You can make money and still be a good guy who creates value for his following, and the people around you. Money will NOT make you a greedy bad guy. It will magnify who you are at your core.
 

Dave Daily

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Feb 22, 2018
163
337
174
50
Chico, CA
@cmor16 wrote: "Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer."

This!

Can I macramé or stitch this in a quilt or something? LOL. Awesome!
 

NanoDrake

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Feb 25, 2018
130
219
158
34
Malta
I guess there is a lot of confusion behind the word "VALUE"

And I guess there is a lot of naivetivity with the "free webinar training" culture.

I would like to bring my example:

I do shampoos. it's a bottle of water with a 10% of other stuff.
There are thousands of shampoo in the market.

I offer a free small size sample so people could try the smell and how it leaves their hair, I make them aware that this is a free sample and if they like it and have it available daily, they have to buy the bigger size.
My packaging, colour, feeling, smell is all engineered to trigger an emotional response ( we can go to the frikkin moon but we buy stuff because we "like" it)

I'm I providing value? I don't know, am I?

Someone will say they love my shampoo and under the shower it gives them 5 minutes of escape from reality and makes them dream about being beautiful.
Someone will say I'm crazy.

So to recap: someone will find value in what I do, and I want to get paid for it.
If you hand out free samples everyday, you are providing a ton of value (maybe) and someone "maybe" will give you money
 

Andy Black

Figuring it out as I go along!
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
9,147
38,371
4,306
Ireland

cmor16

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Oct 30, 2016
396
1,314
419
47
Nova Scotia, Canada
An even better example is the stock trader who becomes wealthy. There is no "Perceived" or "Relative" value added here. There is a transaction where someone convinces him to buy something, and then he convinces someone else to buy at a higher price. Thus money comes from convincing someone to give you money. Not from adding value.
Bad example. No one convinces me to buy stock. I convince myself based on my perceived value of the stock.
 

GSF

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Aug 25, 2012
281
791
292
if i had a penny for every time the word 'value' was used on this forum...
 

SteveO

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 24, 2007
3,687
15,057
3,254
So... I am in the real estate business. The process is to purchase a property that is not performing to its potential and make it operate better. Thus, being able to sell it for more money. Can you tell me how I can convince someone to give me money for this if I don't provide value? It would be interesting to see if there is a better way.
 

SteveO

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 24, 2007
3,687
15,057
3,254
Sorry MJ read your first book, haven't gotten through the new one. It's not because it wouldn't add value to my life, it's because you haven't convinced me of the value that it would add.
Perhaps this is the best example of a troll that I have seen to date. Comes to a forum that he does not believe in to argue with a group that that has a different opinion.
 

SteveO

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 24, 2007
3,687
15,057
3,254
Hahaha... Four posts in a row on a topic that I would not typically reply to in the first place. Please ignore my inputs. I know, I already said my piece. Too late to take it back.

On to something else.....
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

LeoistheSun

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Oct 3, 2017
425
632
275
Honolulu
Hahaha... Four posts in a row on a topic that I would not typically reply to in the first place. Please ignore my inputs. I know, I already said my piece. Too late to take it back.

On to something else.....
Threads like these I usually scroll past the first few posts and look for a reply from one of the regulars.

If its a good reply then its a good thread. If not, no time wasted trying to figure out the truth.
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
29,692
104,253
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
I'm smelling a nihilist trying to make a nihilist argument.

Not gonna bother.
 

Iammelissamoore

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Sep 23, 2014
357
811
317
Trinidad and Tobago
While there are many ways to make this happen, providing value is a key part of the convincing.
...and I think this makes it easier to make money, because then those of us with a living conscience doesn't feel as if we have to convince people into being ripped off.
 

Ronak

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Sep 13, 2013
276
1,087
369
Selling Value (Convincing the customer to buy)
Creating Value (Actually doing the work/providing the product)
Capturing Value (Willingness and ability to pay on the client's part-- provide all the value in the world to broke people= no $$)

All 3 are separate and required, IMO.
 

Fox

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 19, 2015
2,198
16,228
3,246
Europe
To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money"
Strawman argument. No one here is saying its that simple.

Thats like going on a cooking forum with "you guys said eggs = omelettes but I bought some and that just isn't the case".

If you need to simplify complicated business concepts into A = B you won't be getting far in this game.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
U

Utopia

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 7, 2016
105
166
149
Traveling
Every single person that makes money provides value in one form or another.

Every. Single. Person.

From the wealthiest men on the planet, to the guys that come in and clean the toilets. ALL OF THEM.
Yes, you must exchange something of value for money.
It's just not true. It can happen and does often, but it's not an absolute.

I do shampoos. it's a bottle of water with a 10% of other stuff.
There are thousands of shampoo in the market.

I offer a free small size sample so people could try the smell and how it leaves their hair, I make them aware that this is a free sample and if they like it and have it available daily, they have to buy the bigger size.
My packaging, colour, feeling, smell is all engineered to trigger an emotional response ( we can go to the frikkin moon but we buy stuff because we "like" it)

I'm I providing value? I don't know, am I?
Great example Mr. Shampoo. Let's take two examples to prove this:

Girl 1: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and her life is actually better for purchasing it.

Girl 2: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and she is allergic to one of the ingredients, finds herself in the hospital and $10k in debt because of the stay.

In both examples what is true without any doubt is you convinced the women to give you money. What is not true is that the value you provided equaled any kind of money gain for you. ONCE AGAIN THE VALUE YOU PROVIDED HERE DID NOT RESULT IN MONEY. IT WAS THE CONVINCING OF SOMEONE THAT DID.

So... I am in the real estate business. The process is to purchase a property that is not performing to its potential and make it operate better. Thus, being able to sell it for more money. Can you tell me how I can convince someone to give me money for this if I don't provide value? It would be interesting to see if there is a better way.
In the most simplest example, you tell them how the property value is going to double within the next 5 years. You show them 3 other houses that have done so in the last 5 years. Are you providing value? No. Are you convincing them that there is potential value because they will give you money. YES.

I'm smelling a nihilist trying to make a nihilist argument.

Not gonna bother.
I see your point and move to make this actionable. This cannot be proven wrong as the argument for Providing Value = Money can be, so to make this actionable we look at the ways we can convince people to give us money, the providing value can be added or not. What's important is that it sure as hell can be part of the equation, but it's not necessary.

Convincing others to give you money sounds pretty hard to me.

It may be easier if you had something to offer them in exchange.
I agree and charities can do this, but more often then not the aim is to provide you of something valuable AFTER you have contributed the money. This is why you get a picture of poor Marco after you have sent the money to him for shoes in Uganda.

So with this we can derive:

• Convince Others to Give You Money = Get Money
• (Show the User Something Valuable They Might Get) + (Fancy Marketing) + (Poor Kid Crying with White Dude Walking Around In The Village) = Get Money

Notice how all of it is just a process of convincing someone to give you their money. Their marketing, the messages, and your perception all contribute to them giving you their money.

Let’s say a book has some information. If 10 people read it and 1 person uses the information and improves his life while the other 9 have no life change, did the book provide value?

The book is the same, no information has changed inside it. The value is not determined by the info or object. It’s determined by the person using it.
This is why would put it out there and do our best to convince others that it will be useful (marketing skills). To go back to an earlier example, you could say that people get value from Russ' group coaching because 1/10 people apply it and make million dollar businesses. But the value is not the question here, or part of the equation. It doesn't even matter. Russ or this book owner isn't going to make 1/10 of the income because that is who found it valuable.

Simple logic, Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

Last one:

Bad example. No one convinces me to buy stock. I convince myself based on my perceived value of the stock.
This is just semantics, like God convinced and compelled you to give to your church. However it is, you were convinced in one way or another to give money to someone or something, thus they have money. More examples:

• The government convinces you to pay taxes- yes they didn't use any fancy marketing, but if you didn't pay you would on IRS sh*tlist.
• You haven't had any benefit from Social Security yet, but somehow you still give money to it. Through government processes and systems you aren't convinced, but forced (a form of convincing, since you do have alternatives) to put money into this thing that you aren't gaining any value from.
• Back to our stock example. If I buy 1 share of stock from John at $10. I have given him money and in some way or another I was convinced to buy his stock, likely I thought it would provide me value. Notice how even though I now have it and it is worth $10, I still haven't received any value from it and yet my money is gone. Now the stock plummets and is worth $1, now I have -$9 value and my money is gone. But let's say the stock goes up by $10 and is now worth $20, did John do anything to give me extra value? No. Obviously not. So again, I will sell the stock to James for $20 and I profit $10 for my efforts. Was any value exchanged, F no. However, I was convinced to give John $10 and James was convinced to give me $20.

This convincing doesn't have to be by your own efforts or marketing. This can be seen for the psychologist who has to pay a yearly licensing fee for x amount of dollars. No one really "convinced" him, yet he convinced himself that this would be best for him. Then maybe he uses his license (thus it gives him value) or maybe he doesn't (thus it gives him no value).

You see in all these examples, the value received for money is not necessary. It's probably better if your user derives value in what you sell, but again not necessary.
 

Galaxy16

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Feb 4, 2018
300
147
85
24
Germany
I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money
There is truth behind this.
How else could Apple get the richest company?
 

mrarcher

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 26, 2016
272
726
293
Scotland
It's just not true. It can happen and does often, but it's not an absolute.



Great example Mr. Shampoo. Let's take two examples to prove this:

Girl 1: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and her life is actually better for purchasing it.

Girl 2: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and she is allergic to one of the ingredients, finds herself in the hospital and $10k in debt because of the stay.

In both examples what is true without any doubt is you convinced the women to give you money. What is not true is that the value you provided equaled any kind of money gain for you. ONCE AGAIN THE VALUE YOU PROVIDED HERE DID NOT RESULT IN MONEY. IT WAS THE CONVINCING OF SOMEONE THAT DID.
If lots of women have allergic reactions the product will be pulled and No one would buy it. Wheres if the woman gets a compliment about her hair and she mentions her new shampoo it'll spread and more and people will buy it.

Providing value is the difference between fleecing a few bucks from people and owning the next big multinational corporation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
New Course! Upwork Client Psychology I #UdemyApproved! Upwork Client Psychology I is...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Welcome to 2020, I wanted to add in a quick note about gratitude for the new year...


Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe to become an INSIDER.

The 2020 Fastlane Summit

This event SOLD OUT in October. For authorized resale tickets, please check ticket resales or contact the forum directly.

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom