Preserving Wealth, My #1 Tip. Don't Get Married! (Or Maybe You Should?)

[randomnumber314]

Seriously guys, I'd wait to hear @Esquire comments. He specifically deals with divorces, and can tell you that it can ruin any entrepreneurs life and company.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bila]

@Journey2Million$ You are obviously angry and bitter ...i am sorry and wish you peace of mind.

The legal system ( all legal systems ) are the reflection of social transformations, in the last 30 years societies changed and it's reflected in the legal system .... It's flawed ?? Absolutely....but keep in mind ...this very legal and social sytem was against women and their rights for centuries.

 

[OscarDeuce]

I had a coworker years ago when I was in Texas. He had a live-in girlfriend. Man, was he surprised when a legal issue arose and he found he was married under Texas common law because they had been living together for a specific time (I can't remember the period, but it was scary short, like 3 months or something). Better check local laws.

Cheers,
O-2

 

[Esquire]

@Esquire your thoughts?

Agree 100% with @DreamsCameTrue and @Journey2Million$.

I think getting married -- is one of the most insanely reckless things an entrepreneur can do.

Few things can more completely and arbitrarily divest an entrepreneur of his or her heard-earned wealth than divorce court.

I see it all the time.

And (as earlier mentioned) losing your wealth in just part of the picture ... you lose your freedom and (quite often) quality of life.

Might even land you in prison.

Marriage violates the Commandment of Control.

Indeed ... I allotted approximately 20 minutes at the Arizona conference trying to talk the young single folks out of getting married.

Us "older" folks who have been through divorce hell ... know better.

You do NOT want to learn this lesson the hard way.

Prenuptial agreements ... are better than nothing. If you are going to get married -- you need one.

But as I also explained ... there are all sorts of ways to invalidate or contest a prenuptial agreement. They are helpful ... but they are not bulletproof.

If the prenuptial agreement is tossed ... you've got yourself an open-ended divorce.

Hell to the NO.

As I also explained at the conference ... long term relationships governed by a cohabitation agreement ... is the best way to go.

Otherwise ... you are spinning the chambers.

Hard.

You do not marry your spouse. You marry the government.

You hand over control ... over everything you earn ... and over everything you will earn ... sometimes until the day you die ... to a wage-earning slowlane judge.

From a business standpoint -- it is insane.

And there is a 50% chance ... that's where you'll end up.

Not me you say ...? Not going to happen to us ...?

Funny ... that's what everyone else I represented in divorce court said.

50%.

Just say no.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[chrischapman]

Point 3 is a fair point. If you want to get married/divorced you typically are not doing it for financial reasons, you are doing it for other reasons that make you happy!

It's like having kids, living a lavish lifestyle, buying big ticket items I suppose, except there is practically no way to spend A LOT of money so in money terms it's a certain loss.

If preserving wealth is your priority number one, then marriage (and particularly divorce) is probably not going to help. Having said that, for many people, happiness and NOT money is the number one goal.

I would like to get married one day and I will do everything I can in my power to minimise the chances of divorce. I would also like to have a lot of kids and be a Dad.

Just because of that though, it doesn't diminish the value of point 3 as wealth preservation advice.

 

[Bila]

Agree 100% with @DreamsCameTrue and @Journey2Million$.

I think getting married -- is one of the most insanely reckless things an entrepreneur can do.

Few things can more completely and arbitrarily divest an entrepreneur of his or her heard-earned wealth than divorce court.

I see it all the time.

And (as earlier mentioned) losing your wealth in just part of the picture ... you lose your freedom and (quite often) quality of life.

Might even land you in prison.

Marriage violates the Commandment of Control.

Indeed ... I allotted approximately 20 minutes at the Arizona conference trying to talk the young single folks out of getting married.

Us "older" folks who have been through divorce hell ... know better.

You do NOT want to learn this lesson the hard way.

Prenuptial agreements ... are better than nothing. If you are going to get married -- you need one.

But as I also explained ... there are all sorts of ways to invalidate or contest a prenuptial agreement. They are helpful ... but they are not bulletproof.

If the prenuptial agreement is tossed ... you've got yourself an open-ended divorce.

Hell to the NO.

As I also explained at the conference ... long term relationships governed by a cohabitation agreement ... is the best way to go.

Otherwise ... you are spinning the chambers.

Hard.

You do not marry your spouse. You marry the government.

You hand over control ... over everything you earn ... and over everything you will earn ... sometimes until the day you die ... to a wage-earning slowlane judge.

From a business standpoint -- it is insane.

And there is a 50% chance ... that's where you'll end up.

Not me you say ...? Not going to happen to us ...?

Funny ... that's what everyone else I represented in divorce court said.

50%.

Just say no.

Yeah say no as long as you want until a girl tells you " Baby, this is not negociable....your money ? Fair enough ...toss it in an offshore account, prenup, wherever you want, i dont care .........being husband and wife ? I do care..."

 

[Lex DeVille]

The numbers are clear. The stats are clear. Half of marriages fail.

So, the point of this thread is to urge you not to get married if you're not already married, and if you are married to get a divorce now, so you don't risk losing more later on.

It's not to suggest that being married automatically crushes dreams of wealth. You can still become wealthy.

It is to suggest it's dangerous for your long-term wealth, and potentially your freedom.

I still don't agree with the the underlying message of "50% fail so 100% will fail", but it is what it is.

Nonetheless, I do understand where you're coming from, from an asset protection perspective.

Maybe it's just time for a redefinition of the parameters of marriage.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Esquire]

Yeah say no as long as you want until a girl tells you " Baby, this is not negociable....your money ? Fair enough ...toss it in an offshore account, prenup, wherever you want, i dont care .........being husband and wife ? I do care ......" .....talking from experience .

"She" might say that ... "whatever you want" ... but a divorce court judge ... may be of a very different mindset.

Putting your money in an offshore account does you no good. The judge can place you under arrest for civil contempt indefinitely. Whenever you feel like making a big fat ATM withdrawal ... is the day you get released. There is no limit on how long they can keep you locked up.

Offshore accounts mean nothing when you are in prison.

If your sweetheart says "I do care" ... you say "so do I" ... and hold your ground.

Cohabitation agreement ... or nothing.

I'm not turning over the keys to my future because "someone else" is "sentimental" about marriage.

Worse case scenario ... plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[Esquire]

But ...

If you do find yourself in divorce court ... or are tying the knot and need a prenup ... y'all know who to call.

1-800-Esquire.

Better Call Z!

 

[Even Steven]

And there is a 50% chance ... that's where you'll end up.

I've always heard the 50% statistic, so I went to look it up the current rate and found this article: http://www.divorcesource.com/ds/main/u-s-divorce-rates-and-statistics-1037.shtml

Also, this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/divorce-rate-declining-_n_6256956.html

Check the links above. Things are not quite as doom-and-gloom as you guys paint it. The divorce rate is less than 50%, and has been declining slowly. Having said that, it's still high (estimated ~40% for young couples getting married for the first time).

Bad Foundations

"Ninety percent of all new businesses fail within five years, and I know why they fail. They fail because they fail the Commandment of Need."
(MJ DeMarco, The Millionaire Fastlane )

A lot of businesses fail because they are built on bad foundations. Same as a lot of marriages. However, a business or marriage constructed with care and knowledge have a much better chance of succeeding.

If someone came here to this forum, read all of the gold posts, had talks with the successful members, and understood and took to heart all the things they said, how much better would her odds of succeeding be?

If someone wanted to get married and, prior to tying the knot, talked to people who have been successfully and happily married, talked to those he trusted about his potential spouse to get honest opinions, and waited until he was a little older, how much higher would his chances of success be?

For those who don't want to get married, don't get married. I've known plenty of great people and some really good friends who have chosen not to get married. That's each person's choice. But please don't put up warnings of imminent doom to those who would like to. There's a lot to be said for marriage, and there are a lot of successful ones.

My wife and I were a little older than average when we got married. I was 26, she was 30. We've been together almost 10 years and have 2 kids. We fight at times, sometimes a lot. But we've got a pretty happy life together. We work together toward common goals, we support each other, and we each, in the end, admit to fault when we've f*cked up. Before we got married, we each consulted those who were close to us to get their opinions, and we went through a few sessions of pre-marital counseling before the wedding. That's not to say we're free and clear. You always have to work at it. But there's a way to go about it that drastically increases your odds.

Also, vasectomies!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Ezio]

Somebody mentioned misogyny... The law system especially in divorce are designed to sc*ew males. This is not only in USA. I live in Poland and we have the same problems, women in 90% cases get money, cars, and kids... I am definitely not getting married with government.
If someoyd really want marriage I would recommend getting married in religious groups and NEVER married with goverment.
This is not hatred toward females. This is problem with male hating, feminist(from third wave and maybe some of second) that designed the law against males.
And this is not only in divorce system.

I recommend to read this article. It is very long article but I think every young male should read this.
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

 

[Esquire]

A lot of businesses fail because they are built on bad foundations. Same as a lot of marriages. However, a business or marriage constructed with care and knowledge have a much better chance of succeeding.

Not saying it is "impossible" to live happily ever after.

Some people do.

Some people (also) walk into a casino with a few bucks in their pocket ... and walk out with a pocket full of cash.

It happens.

And when it does happen ... great.

Got nothing against "happily ever after" ... I think most all of us would agree that "happily ever after" is the ideal outcome.

Life is best shared.

My comments are strictly about risk management.

When you get the government involved (marriage) ... you are rolling the dice.

And the stakes are high.

IMHO ... there had best be a damned good reason for it ... and "sentimentality" is not one of them.

Not for me at least.

But I completely agree that deferring on marriage until you are older ... if you are going to get married ... is the much better way to go.

 

[Mattie]

Not me you say ...? Not going to happen to us ...?

A familiar phrase people toss around.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Even Steven]

Not saying it is "impossible" to live happily ever after.

Some people do.

Some people (also) walk into a casino with a few bucks in their pocket ... and walk out with a pocket full of cash.

Damn, Z. You're a cynical SOB Although, the casino analogy is a stretch. You will ALWAYS lose over time unless you're a statistical anomaly. Or a world-class poker player.

When you get the government involved (marriage) ... you are rolling the dice.

And the stakes are high.

I think this is the most interesting part of the discussion (making your relationship official from the government's standpoint). I think you and I had this discussion on Friday night of the Summit. I had a similar discussion with another fastlaner on Saturday. I mean, what really differs in practice between a couple who is married and one who is cohabiting and committed to each other? From that standpoint, I totally get people not getting married. And I'll freely admit that my bias toward marriage is probably built on family and religious tradition as much as anything.

Having said that, I would get married again. But here's hoping I don't have to

 

[Bila]

" Sentimental " ......Sure, it is ...but guess what ?? This what life is about my friend ( in my books ) ...life is not a plan, you can " risk manage " as you want but here a scoop for you : Life happens .

 

[Esquire]

Damn, Z. You're a cynical SOB

I earn a living in divorce court ... see the horror stories every day ... and (me) personally ... I went though living hell in divorce court.

And lost six figures.

Cynical ... is an understatement.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Even Steven]

I earn a living in divorce court ... see the horror stories every day ... and (me) personally ... I went though living hell in divorce court.

And lost six figures.

Cynical ... is an understatement.

Sorry, man. I didn't mean to make light of it. And I know that you've seen things in court that the rest of us can't really imagine.

 

[AllenCrawley]

I've always heard the 50% statistic, so I went to look it up the current rate and found this article: http://www.divorcesource.com/ds/main/u-s-divorce-rates-and-statistics-1037.shtml

Also, this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/divorce-rate-declining-_n_6256956.html

Check the links above. Things are not quite as doom-and-gloom as you guys paint it. The divorce rate is less than 50%, and has been declining slowly. Having said that, it's still high (estimated ~40% for young couples getting married for the first time).

Bad Foundations

"Ninety percent of all new businesses fail within five years, and I know why they fail. They fail because they fail the Commandment of Need."
(MJ DeMarco, The Millionaire Fastlane )

A lot of businesses fail because they are built on bad foundations. Same as a lot of marriages. However, a business or marriage constructed with care and knowledge have a much better chance of succeeding.

If someone came here to this forum, read all of the gold posts, had talks with the successful members, and understood and took to heart all the things they said, how much better would her odds of succeeding be?

If someone wanted to get married and, prior to tying the knot, talked to people who have been successfully and happily married, talked to those he trusted about his potential spouse to get honest opinions, and waited until he was a little older, how much higher would his chances of success be?

For those who don't want to get married, don't get married. I've known plenty of great people and some really good friends who have chosen not to get married. That's each person's choice. But please don't put up warnings of imminent doom to those who would like to. There's a lot to be said for marriage, and there are a lot of successful ones.

My wife and I were a little older than average when we got married. I was 26, she was 30. We've been together almost 10 years and have 2 kids. We fight at times, sometimes a lot. But we've got a pretty happy life together. We work together toward common goals, we support each other, and we each, in the end, admit to fault when we've f*cked up. Before we got married, we each consulted those who were close to us to get their opinions, and we went through a few sessions of pre-marital counseling before the wedding. That's not to say we're free and clear. You always have to work at it. But there's a way to go about it that drastically increases your odds.

Also, vasectomies!

Well, well, well. You mean you can increase your odds of success with marriage like you can with business? Who'd a thunk it?!

Married my wife when I was 20 years old. That was 23 years ago. Marriage stronger than ever. And folks, let me tell ya, we have been through some hell... things that easily tear apart many marriages. I married right. Even though I was young, I was insightful enough to not rush into marriage and get counsel prior to doing so.

 

[jazb]

There are some successful people on this forum who were lucky to find a loving partner who stood by them through thick and thin.

Sadly, most of us will not be so lucky. It sounds bitter and cynical but its the honest truth. If you are a man/woman on the fastlane journey. you have to be very very careful about this matter. Marriage is the biggest liability as a fastlaner. the laws are horribly against you.

Keep an open eye folks.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

I have been sitting in this exact spot several times over the past several years, watching the sun set. I came to realize, in this exact spot, that the total number of sunsets you get to watch is fixed and diminishing.

I can tell you that I couldn't imagine it without my wife. Breathing. Living. Drinking in a sunset over the pacific ocean. You're worried about money ? I guess we're focused on different things. Pick better.

I've lost it all, and had to climb back up again. Lost so much that there was only one person that was left standing with me. And she's entitled... to...half.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Very interesting discussion as I thought it would be. Please try to keep the gender bashing to a minimum. Thread title changed as well.

I wrote this article some years ago...

[REMOVED]

TL;DR: Weddings are events, marriages are processes.

And that's why many fail. Just like many businesses fail. People don't care about process but instead, gravitate to events. I have an acquaintance through a friend who is getting married just after 6 weeks of dating. I'm like, WTF is wrong with you? If you're partnership is truly rock solid, you can wait more than 6 weeks, perhaps, 6 years. If after then you guys are still rocking it and happy lovey dovey, yea, then get married.

Truth is, most people are not emotionally capable to have a successful marriage, just like many don't have the grind to run their own businesses.

 

[OscarDeuce]

I count myself as one of the lucky ones who married right. She married a middle manager, not an entrepreneur, but when I changed my focus, she took it all in stride. She was with me as we climbed to the top, enjoying the country club, private airplanes, boats, horses, and the condo overlooking the Vegas strip. She stuck with me when it all collapsed and we were reduced to living in an 83 Accord. She stayed with me while I did it all again, this time selling before the dot com crash would have had us looking for another Honda to move in to. Along the way, she became an entrepreneur herself (she decided it was fun) but helped me achieve my current success. I get it though. I walked into the casino with empty pockets and came out with them stuffed. And I count my blessings every day.

Cheers,
O-2

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

I count myself as one of the lucky ones who married right. She married a middle manager, not an entrepreneur, but when I changed my focus, she took it all in stride. She was with me as we climbed to the top, enjoying the country club, private airplanes, boats, horses, and the condo overlooking the Vegas strip. She stuck with me when it all collapsed and we were reduced to living in an 83 Accord. She stayed with me while I did it all again, this time selling before the dot com crash would have had us looking for another Honda to move in to. Along the way, she became an entrepreneur herself (she decided it was fun) but helped me achieve my current success. I get it though. I walked into the casino with empty pockets and came out with them stuffed. And I count my blessings every day.

Cheers,
O-2

It's NOT luck.

 

[Bila]

Yeah, life is like that .... If you want to win, you have to play first.....and work hard on it. Have the difficult conversations ... Etc

 

[OscarDeuce]

It's NOT luck.

You're right Vigilante, it wasn't luck. A lot of it was hard work. Most things worth having are worth working hard for. We made a commitment to each other, and neither of us takes it lightly.

Cheers,
O-2

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Even Steven]

I wrote this article some years ago...

http://www.fastlaneentrepreneurs.com/2010/has-hollywood-poisoned-your-marriage/

TL;DR: Weddings are events, marriages are processes.

That article should be required reading for anyone before they get married. Great insight. Rep+.

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

And she's entitled... to...half...

...plus the kids, plus child support, plus alimony.

 

[Esquire]

I wrote this article some years ago...

http://www.fastlaneentrepreneurs.com/2010/has-hollywood-poisoned-your-marriage/

Outstanding article.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Michał Kóska]

Your #3 is the biggest bullshit I've ever read. If you don't know how to manage your finance, you won't manage them even being single!

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

Wealthy entrepreneurs of tomorrow, just remember when you're getting wiped out by lawyers....I TOLD YOU SO!

You read it right here in 2015. If your spouse and the lawyers wipe the floor with you and take every cent you have YOU WERE WARNED!

There's a full 90 minute documentary on the topic, and you passed on the chance to watch it. Remember that.

There's a divorce lawyer sitting here on the forum telling you that it's all true, and if you choose to ignore this, do so at your own peril.

You think you can "choose wisely" and get around divorce that way? Well that's what everyone thinks. No matter how smart you think you are, you cannot predict what another human will do or how another human will feel 20 years from now. Are you some kind of psychological expert? I don't think you are.

You think you can "work really hard" on your relationship to avoid divorce? When your spouse is bored, wants more money, or just has massive financial incentive to divorce you, there's gonna be no amount of "hard work" that will save you.

You think you can hide your money offshore? Guess what....they will find it and they will take it.

The good news is you can have a totally fulfilling relationship with all perks of marriage even if you don't get married. It's not just about protecting yourself from financial ruin, it's also about protecting your spouse and your kids. If lawyers take all your money with the help of judges, who's gonna pay for your kids' college? Who's gonna pay for your kids' first house? What will there be for them to inherit when you're gone?

The smartest men and women in the world have been victimized by divorce, if you think you've got a better shot than them, you're no different from a gambling addict sitting in a casino blowing tens of thousands of dollars, insisting that he can beat the house at their own game.