Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and facts

[biophase]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

pokertracker.com is the most common tracking method.

However, holdemmanager.net (HEM) is a rapidly growing competitor that is probably more popular for new purchases than PT. I actually just switched from PT to HEM this month as the new PT has proved very unstable and was not capable of handling the 24 tables I play at a time. For a recreational player, I don't think you can go wrong either way but I do believe HEM has a cheaper option for small stakes players.

Does HEM work for Cake poker? I have Poker tracker but no longer use it. Also, does HEM include a HUD (heads up display?).

 

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[Rawr]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Does HEM work for Cake poker? I have Poker tracker but no longer use it. Also, does HEM include a HUD (heads up display?).

Trying to install it right now, but it doesn't support partypoker - so time to switch.



Here is the FAQ:

http://208.109.95.123/faq/afmmain.aspx


I think they have HUD.

 

[hawaiiloans]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Don't sweat the session to session swings. They don't mean anything. Focus on playing correctly. If you lose a hand, really try to understand why you lost, and if there was something you could have done differently to avoid losing. To go along with that, don't be results oriented on things like 'opponent flush hitting' or things like that. Focus on learning the game, and don't focus on the money at all. You should have at least 25-30 buy ins for the stakes you're playing. As far as time, people pick things up at different paces. After I get a chance to make the part 2. post, it should give you a lot of guidance on how to play and how to build a roll, etc... For now, just try to get a feel for the game a bit and try to learn player tendencies and things like that. This is an important thing to pick up when you're starting out, and something you can only get from table experience.

A lot of my plays now are about what kind of cards the opponents might have, and figuring out if the odds are in my favor. I was playing at the "ok I have a pair, I should play this hand", to "I have a pair, what might the others have in relation to the flop?"

I've lost my share of great hands I've had, which was beaten by a higher straight, and I've have come out ahead with a big pot with ace high. Once you learn the players on the table it makes things a lot easier. Who will call, who will check all the way through, and who is tight, and who is aggressive.

Started playing NL, and I love it to limit. You can totally blow the pot outta the water, or feed into it while slowplaying your hand. Also started reading "The Little Green Book", and am absorbing it as much as possible.

Just wanted to say thanks to snowbank for re-kindling a passion in poker. I played a lot but never knew what I was doing.

 

[PokerRich]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Trying to install it right now, but it doesn't support partypoker - so time to switch.

I think they have HUD.

Biophase- HEM definitely has a built in HUD.

RAWR- your location says Midwest, I am assuming you're not Midwest USA as Party Poker no longer accepts US players.

I looked up the sites that are supported by HEM and it doesn't look like Cake is listed:

Question / Issue

What sites are supported on Holdem Manager?
Answer / Solution

Party Poker, Poker Stars, Full Tilt, Absolute, Crypto Network, Prima / Micro Gaming Network, Ipoker Network, Bodog, Ultimate Bet, OnGame Network, Everest, Betfair and Pacific.

Please note that as of June 6th 2008 Pacific, Bodog and OnGame require 3rd party hand grabbers to function.

 

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[hawaiiloans]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

After 5 days of play I've got back into the black! It's been a constant growing flow of profit. One mistake I've made was not to use the deposit bonus to get some free money. As of right now I'm playing with a $25 deposit. Should I make a new account, and get the bonus?

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I think bonuses were not mentioned.
If you learn how to play well, you can build a good pile of money by playing for bonuses alone. Just deposit the max needed for a big bonus at one site, unlock the bonus by playing, then go to another site and repeat.

While bonuses are good, and I might talk about them a bit in Part 2, there aren't a lot of good bonuses anymore. There used to be a million sites with so many bonuses on each site, but with it being a bit tougher to move money around, and less sites US players able to play on, it's a hassle to do what they call, "bonus whoring." Before legislation passed that made some sites leave the US market, there were like 30-50 good sites where it was +ev(expected value) to deposit for the bonus and play blackjack on. The -ev of money you had to gamble before you could cash the bonus out wasn't negative enough to cancel the +ev of the bonuses. This is how a lot of poker players would build a roll fast, because you could work hard for a couple weeks and be sitting on a few thousand just following a basic strategy chart and cashing out the instant your bonus cleared. As far as right now for poker, there's not a lot of great bonuses, and I'd sign up for one account to learn micro stakes for any of the players just starting out, since the bonus won't really matter much at micro stakes since a player won't be generating enough rake to clear much if any of the bonus. After a player becomes able to beat small stakes, then it makes sense to go jump around and try and grab a grand or two in bonuses.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

After 5 days of play I've got back into the black! It's been a constant growing flow of profit. One mistake I've made was not to use the deposit bonus to get some free money. As of right now I'm playing with a $25 deposit. Should I make a new account, and get the bonus?

No. Focus on learning to play, and don't worry about bonuses right now. You won't clear much if any of a bonus playing .01/.02, so it won't matter for you at this point. Bonuses clear as rake is generated, and at those stakes there's barely any rake generated.

 

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[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I have Part 2 just about finished. Not sure if I should post in here, or start a new thread, so if you don't see it in here, it's because I started a new thread on it.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I am surprised you are not getting more rep for this. The analogy below is priceless.

Thanks! I was hoping someone would like those analogies.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

PART 2

Part 2:

This part will focus mainly on learning to play poker “correctly†since I know a lot of people here are eager to try and get started. I’ll keep this pretty basic since it’s a ‘beginner audience’ mainly just giving you an idea of some basic concepts and a bit of the “why†behind it, so you’ll understand the logic. I can get as in depth as anyone wants though, so feel free to ask.

First, let’s talk about where it all begins: pre-flop. It is VERY important to be selective about the hands you’re going to play when you are first learning about being a winning player. As you progress and become a better player, you can open up your starting hand range more, but in the beginning, you should be playing pretty tight, and it should be one of your main focuses when starting out. If you are playing mediocre hands, and your opponent is playing tight and playing his really good hands, in the long run, who do you think will win?.... It won’t be you. It will make your job a lot tougher post-flop since you’ll find yourself in trouble a lot of times, and not know where you stand in the hand. A lot of times you will be folding your hands pre-flop because they won’t be good enough to play, and at the micro stakes you’ll notice people playing most of their hands. Don’t be like them. Play correctly, and don’t get involved in the “gambling.†Focus on playing your game, and stay tight.


rough opening range for a 6 handed game:

UTG: Under the gun- this is the first player to act pre-flop
UTG + 1
CO: cut-off
Btn: Button- this is the best position to have
SB: small blind- this is the worst position to have, because post-flop you will be forced to act first
BB: big blind

UTG: you should be raising any pocket pairs. You can raise AJo+(Ace Jack offsuit and higher), ATs+(Ace Ten suited and higher.) Also, you can raise suited connectors starting at JTs. You should be folding the rest of your hands.

UTG + 1: Same as UTG, but you can add 89s, 9Ts, ATo, KQo, KJo, QTs and KTs.

Co: You can now raise 56s+, KT, A8s+, QTo+.

Btn: Any suited Ace, K7s+, Q9s+.

Blinds: play SUPER tight from. Remember, you’re in crappy position. Raise good pairs, and hands like AK/AQ, but not a lot else.

At the really small stakes like most people here will be playing I like opening to 4x. Meaning, if the blinds are .01/.02, open to .08.

This is a pretty tight opening hand chart. I tried to make it for what I thought would be pretty optimal for very small stakes games and for people starting out to make the transition to learning pf easier. I’d even consider folding hands like 89s utg + 1 if you’re pretty uncomfortable with your post-flop game since it’s a hand where you’re going to be drawing on when you do hit a playable flop so you’ll have to know how to make sure you’re getting the right price, and know when you should give it up. Being the aggressor and being in position will help a lot since if you’re in position and you’re cbetting as the pre-flop aggressor you often get to see 2 free streets with drawing hands(turn and river), since your opponent will often check the turn to you if he calls since you’ve shown nothing but strength up to this point in the hand. This is very important to realize this advantage. This also makes your hand pretty disguised when your draw hits.

Don’t limp.(meaning, calling instead of raising pre-flop) It’s weak, and you don’t want to learn to play weak. You want to be tight and aggressive. You’re hand range is small, but when you’re opening the action, be aggressive, and raise.

Also, don’t do a lot of calling if someone raises in front of you. I’ll probably include this in part 3 since it looks like this part will be pretty long, but basically if someone raises in front of you, you should be folding most of your hands.

Another important thing to focus on is what position you are in. You want to be in position on people when playing pots. This means you are last to act post-flop. Example: if you are in the big blind, and it’s just you and the small blind going to the flop, you have position on them. Position is extremely important because you get to see what your opponent does before you have to act. So if your opponent who is relatively tight bets at the flop and you have 3rd pair, you know he might have you beat and can fold, where if you were first to act, you might bet your pair and get raised by your opponent and have to fold, costing you that money that you wouldn’t have lost if you had position on your opponent. That’s just one type of scenario, but there are so many types of situations where position will be very important. Trying to play out of position can be very difficult, and very costly, especially in the early going before you really get post-flop strategy down. Hands that look like pretty decent hands, but you are out of position on, a lot of times the correct play will be to fold them. Again, remember not to start playing in a lot of pots just because your opponents do. At the lower levels your opponents will probably be playing a lot more pots than you, because they don’t know any better. This = more money for you.

Now that you are working on your positioning when playing your hands, it will be easier to play post-flop correctly. This is the most in depth part to your game, and is most successful when the other things I mentioned (pre-flop hand selection and positioning) are done correctly. If you play great post-flop but are playing cards like K-9 out of position, you are making your job very tough. To be a solid player you have to do all three together. I can’t tell you how to play post-flop for every hand you are involved with, because there are so many different situations you could find yourself in. I can start you off with the right thought process to have. First of all, and possibly most important for beginning players, take this out of your vocabulary when learning poker strategy: bluffing. At the low levels, you should NOT be thinking about bluffing. You should be thinking about putting your money in with the best hands and learning how to implement your strategy correctly. At the lower levels, players are going to make bad calls against you. That’s why they are losing at low stakes poker. Don’t help them win money by bluffing your money away to them. They will call you, and you will complain about the bad call they made. Focus on playing solid poker, and make them pay you off when you have the best hand. Also, forget about thinking, “they might be bluffing meâ€, while involved in a hand. If you take “bluffing†out of your thought process in the beginning, you will be much better off. You can learn to implement bluffs, and pick off bluffs down the road, but bluffing should be far from your mind at this point.

Don’t get continuation betting confused with bluffing. A continuation bet is when you raised pre-flop and on the flop you follow up with a bet. If you don’t have anything, sometimes you will still follow up with a bet. This is a continuation bet, and although it could be considered a bluff, it’s part of your strategy that I’m going to teach you so don’t get the two confused.

Play your hands aggressively. If you raise pre-flop with the hands I mentioned to use as a starting hand guide, usually follow up with a continuation bet when it is heads up. When it is three to the flop, follow up less. Look at it this way.... Let’s say you and your opponent both have KQ. You raise it pre-flop and he calls. The flop is 2-7-J. Your opponent checks to the raiser, which is you, and you bet it. Well, he can’t call because he has nothing, so he folds. This is why the continuation bet will be very effective. Many times both you and your opponent will have nothing, but you will win the pot because you showed aggression pre-flop and followed through on the flop and took it down. Doing this quite a bit will also confuse your opponents as to when you have a hand. If your continuation bet is called you shut down. That means you check, and fold to a bet(if you have nothing) on the turn and river unless you improve a great deal on your hand. Your opponents will begin to call you down lighter(with less and less) as they notice that you are taking down a lot of pots and maybe even bullying them. If you do have a strong flop hand and bet it, feel free to follow through on the turn if you feel that you are still ahead in the hand. Experience will help you a lot with this, but at low levels a lot of drawing hands will call, as well as 2nd pair type hands and top pair weak kicker type hands. Better hands would probably be raising. . It’s important that you take notes on your opponents as you figure out how they play so that the next time you are involved in a pot with them you have a better idea as to how they are playing certain hands. I can’t give you exact ways to play post-flop because I don’t know your opponent. That is where your experience comes into play, in figuring out what your opponents would raise with, or call with in certain spots. If someone calls you down the whole way until the river and the 3rd club falls on the board and all of the sudden he goes all-in, you know that he probably hit the flush. You have to pick up on patterns from players and from the game your playing in in general to get a feel of when you are ahead and when you may not be ahead, so that you can proceed with caution if you have to, or get more chips in the pot to make drawing hands pay or to get value out of your good hands. If you think that your opponent is drawing and you have a good hand it is important to bet a good bet in relation to the pot, so that you give him incorrect odds to hit his flush, which means when he is calling you he is incorrectly investing too much money into the pot which you will win the majority of the time. A lot of players bet like wimps. Bet your hands. You should be betting at least 2/3rds the size of the pot. On a hand where you think they have a flush or straight draw at these stakes you might want to bet closer to the size of the pot. For example: you raise pre-flop with AJ and 1 opponent calls and the flop is 2-4-J, with 2 clubs. Now you bet and your opponent calls. Well, it is likely that they could be drawing, and it is very unlikely that you are behind in the hand. If they had AA, KK or QQ they probably would have re-raised you pre-flop, and if not then probably on this flop. They could have possibly called with lower pair, but there is a very good chance they are drawing. Either way, on the turn, which let’s say is a 7 of diamonds, it is important you bet your hand, to make a drawing hand pay, or to get value from a hand like 99 or TT who thinks you may not have the J. This is just one scenario, but this is the type of thought process you should be going through when thinking about your hands. You should think, “what can he have here, and based on what he could have, how should I play this hand.†It is important to be able to give up hands if you might be beat. Don’t pay someone off on a hand just because you were curious. Just wait until the next hand.

Don’t forget to remember all parts of your strategy: playing tight pre-flop, being in position, being the aggressor, bankroll management(which we’ll get to.) Forgetting to play hands in position is like steveo forgetting to get an inspection on an apartment building. “Ya the deal looks great†6 months later: “Oh, the roof caved in..... that’s weird†It’s like any other business, you have to do all parts to make sure you’re successful. Forgetting one aspect of your “poker business†is like Russ forgetting the beds in his bed and breakfast. It will be detrimental to your success. Don’t forget to treat this like a business if you’re trying to make money. Don’t get caught up in “gambling.†It’s only gambling if you don’t know what you’re doing. :smx9:

It’s important to give yourself time. Michael Jordan didn’t start his first day with a basketball doing 360's and posterizing people, he tried some layups and learned to dribble. The fundamentals. That’s what you’re working on now. Once you have your fundamentals down, you can expand from there, but it’s important to get them down now, instead of playing incorrectly and then having to re-correct everything in the future. If you feel you are having problems in your game, take a look at what you’re doing pre-flop and make sure you are not straying away from the hands you should be playing. Remember, in the beginning, it is best to be tight and be going to the flop with the top hands, and playing in position, which will make post-flop play much easier for you. Don’t make your job harder than it has to be in the beginning. Make it easy on yourself.

One thing I need to make sure I include in this part is bankroll management. You cannot be underfunded if you want to make sure you have success. You need to be able to withstand the swings of the game. For each level you should have 30 buy ins. So if you’re playing $5 buy in games, you need a $150 bankroll. It’s important to note, that if you don’t have an edge in the games, it won’t matter what size your bankroll is. If Donald Trump decided to start his poker career with $200,000 playing 5/10nl, he’s plenty bankrolled for the game, but he’s still going to lose all his money because he doesn’t know what he’s doing. So the 30 buy in rule is for players WITH an edge. Follow the advice here and get experience so you’ll have an edge, and use the 30 buy-in rule and you’ll definitely have a leg up on other people trying to learn how to make money.

Part 3: I’ll talk about more strategy, and touch on some things I didn’t cover(since I didn’t want it to get too long and overload people) and also we’ll get to the fun stuff such as how much money you can make.

 

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[kurtyordy]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

PART 2

It might make sense to move this to a separate thread.

 

[DavyB]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for the follow up, Bill.* I especially like your reference to treating poker as a business.* It's easy to fall into a trap of playing too many hands when first starting out, and especially playing them out of position.* That combination can lead to frustration, which can lead to making some REALLY poor major decisions that are built upon poor fundamentals.* That's the gambling part you were referring to.* So important to maintain the discipline and set up systems, or make decisions automatic, like you said.* That way you only have to think about what you're doing every so often in a tough hand.I have to say I was a little surprised by your range of starting hands, especially UTG and UTG+1, but that's why you're the pro, right?

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

It might make sense to move this to a separate thread.

ya, i was up in the air about it, looks like a lot of people haven't really seen part 2 yet. maybe would have been a better idea, i wasn't sure. was trying to keep all the info in one thread so people would have it all here, rather than scattered in 3-5 threads depending on how deep into stuff people want me to get.

 

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[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for the follow up, Bill.* I especially like your reference to treating poker as a business.* It's easy to fall into a trap of playing too many hands when first starting out, and especially playing them out of position.* That combination can lead to frustration, which can lead to making some REALLY poor major decisions that are built upon poor fundamentals.* That's the gambling part you were referring to.* So important to maintain the discipline and set up systems, or make decisions automatic, like you said.* That way you only have to think about what you're doing every so often in a tough hand.I have to say I was a little surprised by your range of starting hands, especially UTG and UTG+1, but that's why you're the pro, right?

The starting hand ranges I posted definitely aren't the same ranges I'd use in the games I play. Once people have an edge on other people post-flop, they can make their pre-flop range larger to create more opportunities to have an edge post-flop on people. This guide I suggested is pretty tight since if players are starting it'll be tough for them to have an instant edge on everyone, and if they do have an edge, it will be a small one, until they get experience.

However, the utg and utg+1 ranges you mentioned are actually not that far off from my own ranges. I'd definitely be opening more hands, but in those spots you want to be tight, since if you are getting called, you are going to be in bad position post-flop when co and button call, and there's going to be more people still to act pf to 3 bet you(4-5), and the majority of your range you won't be able to call a 3 bet with. utg and utg+1 you should be focusing on playing strong hands because you will often find yourself out of position, which is not a good thing, so your hand strength should be strong enough to compensate for that possibility.

 

[biophase]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Btn: Any suited Ace, K7s+, Q9s+.

I have no idea how to play K7s, K8s and K9s when I hit a king and get called on the flop. Are these hands actually profitable at showdown is it basically a blind stealer.

 

[cmartin371]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for Part 2. Gonna print it out and read it more closely. I started playing a few hundred hands a week for about two weeks now, at the .02/.04 tables. I seem to be pretty consistent at winning and not losing to much money so far (in other words not giving it all back). I have been playing a tight range consisting of all Pocket Pairs, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, QJ, KJ. Since I am still so new and learning how to play post flop, this usually keeps me out of trouble. I appreciate all the info Snowbank!

Chris :hl:

 

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[Justin]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

So far, I am doing decent - started with 25 ended at 23.83 - played today and ended at 22.71 - (edit) just played after this post, much tighter then before...back up to 23.19 !

Sigh....

 

[PurEnergy]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Snowbank,

Thanks for part II. I'm glad you put that up. I've been playing for about two weeks now. I thought I was playing tight but I've gone from $25 down to about $10. :cuss: I think I bet more than my bankroll could afford on a few hands. I believe this has been my biggest mistake.

I'm looking forward to implementing your strategies. Thanks again.

 

[bflash98]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for Part 2. Maybe one of the mods can move it over to its own thread. This is great information and I think it will get lost being in this first thread...

 

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[Rawr]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for Part 2. Maybe one of the mods can move it over to its own thread. This is great information and I think it will get lost being in this first thread...

Just a suggestion - may be we can have a specific part of the forums for poker strategy? I know this is mostly RE/E-biz forum but it seems many people are interested in poker as a biz and a lot of discussion is ensuing.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Just wanted to include a quick note on something I probably should have added into Part 2: rakeback.

This won't matter much to people here at this point, because the stakes most are playing there won't be much rake taken, but the main reason it should be mentioned is so people don't go around signing up to a bunch of sites since it will matter if you do get serious about poker and start moving up the stakes/playing more volume.

Rakeback, is a % of rake that goes back to the player. Let's say that a player generates $1,000 in rake for the month, and has a 30% rakeback deal. At the end of the month, he'll get $300 in rakeback. Again, the importance of you knowing about this now isn't because of the money you can make, but moreso so you don't go signing up to a bunch of sites with no rakeback deals in place so in the future it would be a pain to get around. If you haven't signed up for a site yet, I might suggest PokerStars since there's no rakeback system at PokerStars(they do more bonuses instead), so when you were at the point where you'd be generating a decent amount of rake you could move over to somewhere where you could get setup with a decent rakeback deal.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Btn: Any suited Ace, K7s+, Q9s+.

I have no idea how to play K7s, K8s and K9s when I hit a king and get called on the flop. Are these hands actually profitable at showdown is it basically a blind stealer.

They're profitable hands to play if you're playing well post-flop in position. You aren't necessarily going to be going to showdown a ton with them, since you should be c-betting and sometimes double barreling depending on the turn card in relation to the flop. Obv it's good to take the blinds with no effort if they just give up, but having position throughout the hand is a huge advantage if you're putting pressure on your opponent. I'm not saying blindlessly fire at unknown opponent if you don't have a hand, but here's an example:

You raise K7 and get one caller from the blinds. Flop is 248. You cbet and they call. Turn is a Q. That's a great card to bet again since it's a scare card in relation to the flop. Their calling range on the flop doesn't include a Q there since they won't be calling Q8, Q4, Q2 in the blinds, they're more likely to have 78, 77, 66, 55, 99 type hands, where if you fire again with the Q on the board, they'll often give up the hand since you continued to show aggression when a card like a Q came out.(note: for beginning players it's good to understand this, but be careful trying to implement too much of this at very low stakes, since opponents there won't really be thinking about all this, and might just call you down. Biophase plays a bit higher so his 'game conditions' will be different and he'll be able to effectively use this at his stakes.)

You asked what happens when you hit your K, it's a really easy hand to play when you hit your K because then you can turn your focus to: do you maximize value, do I protect my hand, do I trap? Those will all depend on your opponent, your table image, and the board texture. If flop is 25K rainbow and he check calls from the blinds it's a pretty clear situation where if you bet the turn against a thinking opponent he'll often know he's beat if you are betting the turn since it's such a dry board, so if turn is let's say an 8, and you bet again; well... the 8 obv isn't a scare card so if you're betting again you probably have a K or at least a hand that beats his since a lot of his TT/JJ/QQ type hands would have 3 bet you pf, so he either would be calling if he has a K(and his kicker would beat yours if he called from that position pf) or he's folding, so you can comfortably check the turn since the board is safe and you aren't letting him draw for free. Then you can make a value bet on the river and he may think you are giving it one more stab at the pot if you missed, and you may get value from mid pairs. If the board is drawy you can bet the turn to charge potential draws.

 

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[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Thanks for Part 2. Gonna print it out and read it more closely. I started playing a few hundred hands a week for about two weeks now, at the .02/.04 tables. I seem to be pretty consistent at winning and not losing to much money so far (in other words not giving it all back). I have been playing a tight range consisting of all Pocket Pairs, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, QJ, KJ. Since I am still so new and learning how to play post flop, this usually keeps me out of trouble. I appreciate all the info Snowbank!

Chris :hl:

Sure Chris, glad it's helping. Just keep in mind, that a few hundred hands you won't really know results wise how you're doing. I might win a bunch over 10,000 hands and lose a bunch in my next 10,000 hands. It's a very long term game, where your expectation won't be known for a long time, so just keep that in mind. I say this because I see a lot of posts by people who it seems like might be getting attached to results(not you, just in general), and they're playing less than a thousand hands and getting very into winning or losing a few dollars. The dollar amounts don't matter, since it's such short term that you're playing, so anything can happen over a few hundred, few thousand, or even 10,000+ hands. Just don't want people to get frustrated in the early going if they hit a downswing, since it doesn't really matter because the sample size is so small.

Sounds like you're doing a good job with your pf range. That's a bigger deal than you think, a lot of people struggle with that early on wanting to "gamble it up" and get involved in all sorts of pots. Keep me posted on how you're doing.

 

[cmartin371]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Sure Chris, glad it's helping. Just keep in mind, that a few hundred hands you won't really know results wise how you're doing. I might win a bunch over 10,000 hands and lose a bunch in my next 10,000 hands. It's a very long term game, where your expectation won't be known for a long time, so just keep that in mind. I say this because I see a lot of posts by people who it seems like might be getting attached to results(not you, just in general), and they're playing less than a thousand hands and getting very into winning or losing a few dollars. The dollar amounts don't matter, since it's such short term that you're playing, so anything can happen over a few hundred, few thousand, or even 10,000+ hands. Just don't want people to get frustrated in the early going if they hit a downswing, since it doesn't really matter because the sample size is so small.

Sounds like you're doing a good job with your pf range. That's a bigger deal than you think, a lot of people struggle with that early on wanting to "gamble it up" and get involved in all sorts of pots. Keep me posted on how you're doing.

Thanks! Your points are certainly taken to heart. I truly am focused on playing correctly more than anything. I trade forex part time too, so the money management with out the emotion of gambeling comes to me. But post flop play I know will take a while to grasp before I even consider myself a long term player......keep the thread alive. I love it! Your time is appreciated here snowbank!

Chris

 

[hawaiiloans]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Stole 3 stacks today, with great positioning, and hands to enter with.

Up $11.39 from my original $5.00 buy in. I've had a good portion of my stack stolen, but I felt my cards were played right based on the positioning, etc. Came back and punished the bluffer for taking a good amount from everyone. I took note of these 2 hands in particular, did I do the right thing, or not?

misssuxout: posts small blind $0.01
katchmyfreak said, "ty"
hawaiiloans: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hawaiiloans [Jh Jc]
vovchik71: folds
sschtz: raises $0.02 to $0.04
katchmyfreak: calls $0.04
misssuxout: folds
hawaiiloans: raises $0.08 to $0.12
sschtz: raises $0.08 to $0.20
orc_online joins the table at seat #3
katchmyfreak: folds
hawaiiloans: raises $0.30 to $0.50
sschtz: raises $0.30 to $0.80
hawaiiloans: raises $0.30 to $1.10
sschtz: calls $0.30
*** FLOP *** [8s Qs 7h]
hawaiiloans: bets $1
sschtz: raises $0.09 to $1.09 and is all-in
hawaiiloans: calls $0.09
*** TURN *** [8s Qs 7h] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [8s Qs 7h 9s] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hawaiiloans: shows [Jh Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
sschtz: shows [Ks Th] (a flush, King high)
sschtz collected $4.23 from pot :cuss:

so I did this:

vovchik71: posts small blind $0.01
sschtz: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hawaiiloans [Td Tc]
katchmyfreak: folds
misssuxout: calls $0.02
hawaiiloans: raises $0.06 to $0.08
vovchik71: folds
sschtz: calls $0.06
misssuxout: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [7d 5c 3c]
sschtz: checks
misssuxout: checks
Francois19 joins the table at seat #3
hawaiiloans: bets $0.52
sschtz: calls $0.52
misssuxout: folds
*** TURN *** [7d 5c 3c] [5h]
sschtz: bets $1
hawaiiloans: raises $1 to $2
sschtz: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [7d 5c 3c 5h] [2d]
sschtz: checks
hawaiiloans: bets $2.26
sschtz: calls $2.19 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.07) returned to hawaiiloans
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hawaiiloans: shows [Td Tc] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
sschtz: mucks hand
hawaiiloans collected $9.22 from pot :yourock::yourock::yourock:

 

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[biophase]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

misssuxout: posts small blind $0.01
katchmyfreak said, "ty"
hawaiiloans: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hawaiiloans [Jh Jc]
vovchik71: folds
sschtz: raises $0.02 to $0.04
katchmyfreak: calls $0.04
misssuxout: folds
hawaiiloans: raises $0.08 to $0.12
sschtz: raises $0.08 to $0.20
orc_online joins the table at seat #3
katchmyfreak: folds
hawaiiloans: raises $0.30 to $0.50
sschtz: raises $0.30 to $0.80
hawaiiloans: raises $0.30 to $1.10
sschtz: calls $0.30
*** FLOP *** [8s Qs 7h]
hawaiiloans: bets $1
sschtz: raises $0.09 to $1.09 and is all-in
hawaiiloans: calls $0.09
*** TURN *** [8s Qs 7h] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [8s Qs 7h 9s] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hawaiiloans: shows [Jh Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
sschtz: shows [Ks Th] (a flush, King high)
sschtz collected $4.23 from pot :cuss:

On this hand you get to the point where you are both basically all in. After the 3rd raise you should probably just be going all in. Definitely push all in after the 5th raise. LOL. You both had $1 left after the flop, nobody was going anywhere.

The thing to think about here is if you thought you Jacks were good. I know that at these levels people raise with a kinds of stuff. But when you look back at your play. Were you even thinking about what he could have had when you kept reraising? Or were you just think I got Jacks.

Did you even think about what you would do on the flop if there was a Ace, King or Queen on the board while you were making these raises?

Let's pretend he called your $0.50 raise. Now the pot is about $1 and you both have $1.60 behind. What would you have done on that same board?

vovchik71: posts small blind $0.01
sschtz: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hawaiiloans [Td Tc]
katchmyfreak: folds
misssuxout: calls $0.02
hawaiiloans: raises $0.06 to $0.08
vovchik71: folds
sschtz: calls $0.06
misssuxout: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [7d 5c 3c]
sschtz: checks
misssuxout: checks
Francois19 joins the table at seat #3
hawaiiloans: bets $0.52
sschtz: calls $0.52
misssuxout: folds
*** TURN *** [7d 5c 3c] [5h]
sschtz: bets $1
hawaiiloans: raises $1 to $2
sschtz: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [7d 5c 3c 5h] [2d]
sschtz: checks
hawaiiloans: bets $2.26
sschtz: calls $2.19 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.07) returned to hawaiiloans
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hawaiiloans: shows [Td Tc] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
sschtz: mucks hand
hawaiiloans collected $9.22 from pot :yourock::yourock::yourock:

So you overbet the flop and get called. What were you thinking on the turn? Did you just think I have an over pair here and I'm good? You could basically only beat 99, 88, A7, flush draws and crap. I know that these players are real real bad. But as you move up I wouldn't expect to see many calls on the flop on hands that you could beat.

On the turn, what's the purpose of the raise?

 

[hawaiiloans]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I'm very humbled by what you said. I wasn't really thinking as to what they could have, just the fact that I had pairs, and played aggressively. The other player was bluffing for a while and I decided whatever I had was better then his hand.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Haven't had a chance to write up a part 3 because I've been crazy busy. I'd be interested to see how people are progressing if anyone's trying to learn it though. Any questions just ask them in here and I'll respond.

 

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[sharpshooter]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I have been trying to play a couple of hours a day since your post. I started off with $100 buy-in and I'm up to around $145. The strategies have been working so far, but I'm having a lot of problems playing low pairs out of position, either in the blinds or UTG, UTG+1, and was wondering what your strategy is in handling these situations. Also you how would do act when someone has raised in front of you 3-4x the blind?

Obviously the way the player has been playing his hands affects your decision.

Also have you considered video capturing your play for an hour or so? This way we can see how a pro plays online and gives a view into your world.

 

[snowbank]

Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I have been trying to play a couple of hours a day since your post. I started off with $100 buy-in and I'm up to around $145. The strategies have been working so far, but I'm having a lot of problems playing low pairs out of position, either in the blinds or UTG, UTG+1, and was wondering what your strategy is in handling these situations. Also you how would do act when someone has raised in front of you 3-4x the blind?

Obviously the way the player has been playing his hands affects your decision.

Also have you considered video capturing your play for an hour or so? This way we can see how a pro plays online and gives a view into your world.

Nice, good to see you're making some progress. I'll get a lot more into strategy with low pairs, etc... when I have time to post part 3, but for now, focus on making sure you're getting implied odds to make a call. You play low pocket pairs for set value. So if someone doesn't have much money behind, and you're just going to fold to a continuation bet if they bet, there isn't much sense for you to call if they raise and only have a 30bb stack for you to call, since you don't have the implied odds to make money when you hit your set on the flop. The blinds it'll be dependent on whether the person is raising the button a lot of not. If they're real aggressive trying to steal the blinds just fold your pocket pairs against a button raiser because you're implied odds aren't there because his range will be much wider and there will not be a very good chance for him to want to stack off against you if you hit your set. Let me know if that makes sense for you, and if there's anything you want me to describe more just let me know. As far as utg and utg+1 you should be raising, unless there's a bunch of very short stacks behind.

Ya, I could make a vid for the fastlane forums. I'm super busy right now, but maybe I'll post one when I get a chance to write up part 3.