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O/T: Health My Experience Eating Keto/Carnivore

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Darius, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Raoul Duke
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    Raoul Duke I am here for your DATA. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    I like this for my butter: Salted Butter | Kerrygold | All-Purpose, All-Natural Butter

    Can get it in other ways as well. Unsalted, etc.

    I like ghee as well: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E0W3KEC?th=1
     
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  2. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I'd recommend getting unsalted.

    In order to add salt to butter they must also add more water. While the water to butter fat content might not be drastically different (I haven't found any specific numbers on the topic besides it having more water and less butter fat), they're usually priced similarly (in my area) - so might as well go with the product with more butter/less processing.

    Salted butter will last longer in the fridge, but for most people doing this WOE, butter is used up way before it can expire.
     
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  3. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Also, depending on the quality of the Ghee, it's a good source of vitamin K2 (works to remove calcium from the blood - good for heart health and bones)
     
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  4. Raoul Duke
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    For myself I have found that salted butter from Kerrygold is the way to go. That is just my preference. I haven't found any other alternatives to this brand either.
     
  5. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I completely understand.

    Although Kerrygold cows are likely not 100% grass fed (I think they get grains during their winter months instead of hay) it's probably the best supermarket butter out there. I hear Organic Valley has a good pastured butter but I haven't tried it.
     
  6. RazorCut
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    Thanks for the thread Darius, just found it and it's a very good read.

    I recently transitioned from a very active business to being desk bound so thought I would need to do something dramatic to keep from piling on the pounds, plus I could do with losing 20lbs anyway.

    I watched a few channels, read a few blogs etc. about fasting and reduced my meals to twice a day. Basically a 16/8 fast and also included 40 mins of cardio 6 days a week. Within a week I switched to a 20/4 fast which quickly became a 22/2 as I don't eat till 6pm each day and have no urge to eat after 8 as I'm still full and go to bed at 10 anyway.

    I'm not following a keto diet and just eating anything my wife puts in front of me at dinnertime. Certainly noticed health benefits even though this is only the second week. Lost 3lbs but expect more than that is actual fat loss as muscles have certainly become denser in this time.

    What I have picked up on in this thread is benefits to nasal congestion. I've found in the last 2 days my nasal passageways seem larger and it's much easier to breathe. If I hadn't read this thread I wouldn't have considered it was related.

    The next step will be to convert to a keto friendly diet to gain maximum benefit.

    Thanks again, looking forward to further updates.
     
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  7. Nelow
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    What are your opinions on the high iron levels associated with this diet?
     
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  8. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Thanks for sharing!


    It's awesome that by reducing meal frequency, you've been able to get some benefits without cutting carbs.

    Keep us updated on when you make the switch to Keto!

    I wonder if you'll be able to get into ketosis easily (without symptoms) since your body is likely already entering it while fasting.
     
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  9. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I haven't done much research on iron specifically since I haven't had a reason to (not many reports of iron related issues or crazy iron levels in blood work I've seen).

    I haven't had my blood work done so I can't speak on my iron levels. I also cook almost all of my food in cast iron skillets and have had no I'll effects as far as I know.

    However, if someone had a pre-existing condition where too much iron could cause problems, I'd tell them consult a doctor/proceed with caution, regardless of diet.

    When you have pre-existing conditions or have had surgery (like having a gallbladder removed) then things become very tricky. You have to tailor your approach to work around your condition until your condition is fixed (if fixable).
     
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  10. Scott Robertson
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    Interesting post. I've heard a lot about keto within the last ~year via Joe Rogan's podcast. How active are you? Personally, I've found that a diet with carbs provides me with more energy vs a ketogenic diet, but I run a lot and lift weights. (Keep in mind my carbs are mostly yams/vegetables/oats. In fact my diet is paleo except for the oats)

    I got my 23andme results, and through my gene mapping have been recommended to eat ~ 40/40/20 (carbs/protein/fat), and with this ratio I feel optimized and at my best. I'm wondering how much a person's genes influence what their "optimal diet" would be.
     
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  11. Lionhearted
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    Darius You forgot The first rule of Keto is: You do not talk about Keto. :)
     
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  12. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I weight lift 4-6 days a week.

    How long were you on a ketogenic diet?
     
  13. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Some thoughts:

    Carbs/glucose are like a growth hormone/stimulant

    They provide faster energy and cause things to grow faster than they would without them.

    - Most cancers use glucose as energy.
    - Muscles grow faster with glucose.
    - Fat stores faster with glucose

    Without them, you shouldn't have as much energy as you would with them - even on a ketogenic diet (unless you had some form of insulin resistance beforehand).

    I do believe carbs had a purpose for us in nature but no where near the level available to us today.

    A fresh kill would have likely had plenty of glucose available (from glycogen) to trigger insulin to fuel muscles and possibly store fat for a time when food would be limited (like winter).

    The problem today with carbs is that there's too many in everything, including some of the veggies sold frequently in the USA.

    The body probably runs best when kept at a low-ish body fat while spending most of it's time in ketosis.

    Fat is more calorie dense so you don't need to consume as much in order to reach satiety and the most important vitamins are stored there. Less eating means more time for your body to allocate resources elsewhere.

    But regardless of how much I think I know or how much humans in general think they know, we're probably still clueless about most stuff involving the body.

    No matter if you choose keto, carnivore, vegan, or whatever WOE - try to do as much research as you can. Try to find as many people eating that diet as possible and learn about the good and the bad.

    Ideally, the diet should not leave you deficient in any vitamins and you should feel continue to feel good for many years.

    My belief is currently in carnivore but I haven't been doing it long enough to tell if it's the one for me (although some people have)

    And don't be afraid to change your diet if it's not giving you the results you're looking for. Online, a lot of these diet communities are like cults - but at the core, we're all just trying to live longer and healthier lives.
     
  14. Scott Robertson
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    ~ 30-40 days
     
  15. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    That may not have been enough time for your body to learn how to use ketones effectively.

    I've heard of it taking close to a year before some people can do high intensity activities and have enough energy.

    Even after almost 9 months, I still get sleepy if I workout extremely hard (like a full body day with squats, bench, and deadlifts). It has been getting better month over month.

    I remember in my first 30 days on keto, I went for a PR deadlift and after getting it, I had to stop the rest of the workout due to feeling tired. I went upstairs (home gym was in my basement) and took a 4 hour nap.
     
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  16. JasonR
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    Have you checked or tracked changes in your cholesterol levels?
     
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  17. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I haven't yet since starting. I'll probably get one this month.

    I plan on eating some sweet potato pie this month, so I'm going to get the test done before that. That way it's not skewed due to having over 10-20g of carbs for the first time since March.

    Here's what I'd expect on the cholesterol front based on what I've read:

    - Total cholesterol & LDL to be high (compared to what's normal) since I'm still losing weight fairly quickly. I'm going to also try to get an LDL particle size test. Not many people get that done and the particle size is a better indicator for potential heart problems.

    - Triglycerides in the normal range. I think this will depend on how carnivore-ish I am before the test and if I add more omega 3's to my diet.

    - HDL in the normal range

    I'll likely get a CAC (coronary artery calcium) test done as well. As long as that test is low I probably won't worry about cholesterol until I'm at a stable weight due to the likelihood of it being skewed.



    Since we're on the topic of blood test, I've become very skeptical of our knowledge of what blood test are direct markers/strongly correlated and which ones are proxies.

    I said this in another post in this thread but when we (humans) start isolating things by themselves, we tend to be wrong due to missing other contributing factors and variables.

    As a species, I do think we're going to get enough data and make enough bad guesses that we'll get it right eventually. We have to if we plan on becoming an interplanetary species.

    But at this moment in time, I think we're still in the stage of making a lot of bad guesses (probably due to a mixture of studies being funded by the people selling the products and just human error).

    With that said, I don't have any better ways of tracking overall health (outside of just how I feel, which can be unreliable for specific problems) - so I'll be comparing my blood tests to what is deemed to be normal.
     
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  18. Nelow
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    Update: Cold like syntoms, think I got keto flu, felt like crap yesterday and still trying to get over it. Energy level has dropped down a lot.

    Worked like usual yesterday, but was very tired when getting home. Went to bed 4hrs earlier than usual.
     
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  19. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Sounds good that you listened to your body and went to bed earlier.

    Try putting a pinch of salt in your mouth and seeing if it taste too salty. If it doesn't, keep putting more in until it does.
     
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  20. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    A study that was published stating that low-carb diets would increase cardiovascular risk was recently retracted due to problems with data integrity and conflict of interest by the lead author (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/clc.23047)

    While it's great that the study is being retracted, a lot of the damage has already been done. The media reported on that study heavily and will likely not report on it being retracted.

    Anyone who doesn't have time to stay up-to-date with nutritional studies (most normal people) will probably continue believing the study's conclusion and alter their diets (or use it as reinforcement) based on that study.

    Just another reason to be skeptical of what you read (regardless if it supports or goes against your current WOE). The issues with this study were noticed and dealt with. There are likely more of these studies that were/are not noticed.

    The study's conclusion before being retracted was:
    One-year lowered-carbohydrate diet significantly increases cardiovascular risks, while a low-to-moderate-fat diet significantly reduces cardiovascular risk factors. Vegan diets were intermediate. Lowered-carbohydrate dieters were least inclined to continue dieting after conclusion of the study. Reductions in coronary blood flow reversed with appropriate dietary intervention. The major dietary effect on atherosclerotic coronary artery disease is inflammation and not weight loss.
     
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    Thank you for the quality of your posts and skillful writing Darius!

    Have you come across the book "How to Beat The Heart Attack Gene" by Bradley Bale, MD and Amy Doneen, ARNP?

    It's a great guide on inflammation, cardiovascular health, and taking a more proactive approach in requesting testing/labs.

    It discusses CACS but also warns that it is unable to detect 'soft' plaque and "less reliable in younger patients." There are ultrasound tests (ex. cIMT) that try to spot soft plaque and gauge the thickness of arterial walls.

    A couple other tests that struck me were the Myeloperoxidase (MPO) enzyme they refer to as the joker because with it all cholesterol is more inflammatory (including HDL).

    Also, an inexpensive blood test NT-proBNP neurohormone marker for heart stress that qualified "as an 'independent-predictor' of cardiovascular-risk." Less than 125pg/mL gives a 98% chance of a "happy" heart.

    Sleep disorders place a big strain on the body and anyone with signs or symptoms (even a large neck circumference) would be best tested!

    (As mentioned, an individualized approach for testing with help from professionals is always advised!)
     
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  22. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Thanks for all of the info!

    I'll look into the tests you mentioned as well as that book.

    The MPO enzymes sounds interesting. I'm assuming it causes more cholesterol to penetrate the artery wall and trigger inflammation?
     
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    No problem!

    The book will give suggestions on diet and genetics as well. However, I truly think that because science is always evolving we are all best to take the most evidence-based and reputable sources to create a custom diet and health plan.

    I went back to the book for more in depth answers on MPO! At the basic level it is one of our immune defenses at an infection site but the warning sign is when it is found high throughout the body.

    The oxidants it produces are the inflammatories for all cholesterol (and HDL no longer helping to protect form plaque buildup). It also interacts with hydrogen peroxide to make the active ingredient in bleach (hypochlorous acid) and reduces production of nitric oxide in the body, both of which can weaken the endothelium (blood vessel lining). The easiest way to think of it might be that it makes it easier for plaques to enter vessels that can then cause heart attack or stroke.

    I don't want to sidetrack your Keto/Carnivore discussion so I can give you a few more tests/labs if you'd like but will keep to a minimum!
     
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  24. Darius
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    Darius Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    No worries, I love hearing about things I've never heard about.

    As far as labs, I think I'm going to get something simple done this month. I'm thinking just lipids and fasting insulin since I have easy access to it - just to have the data.

    I'm having a hard time finding an affordable CAC test, so I may wait on that. Locations by me do it for free, but only under a physicians order. If you don't have a recommendation, they're charging $500+.

    There are way too many possible tests to take that won't provide any definitive/actionable information including the lipid test for cholesterol.

    I'm going to check out that book though! It sounds interesting.
     
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    @Darius , do you follow Shawn Baker or sv3rige? Do you eat raw meat and organs?
     

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