I try, I fail, I try again. Recurring pattern going on 10 years

[Chazmania]

Think success and take massive action towards that goal. Learn from every mistake. Take more swings. Keep learning. Pick something that you're willing to work at for the next 10 years. Work at it for the next ten years.

Read about winners. Think about what makes a winner. Realize you're competing for something and the competition is fierce and hungry. Don't expect easy. Realize that difficulty is a barrier to entry for weaker people. Look for patterns from people on this forum that have had big success. Become obsessed with the idea of abundance and success. Believe in yourself. See yourself succeeding in what you've set out to do. Be a winner in what you've committed to competing in.

Btw, I wasn't even talking to you OP, that's just what I've learned to tell myself.

 

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[peacemaker]

Here's a sure safe way to become a successful business owner.

BUY an established franchise or business that has systems/standard operating procedures in place.

This takes away the risk of having to find customers and testing the water to find out if you are providing a service/product that the public wants to pay for AND it gives you the exact steps you need to keep operating the business.

Buy one that has has employees in place and the current owner is absentee. Let's say it costs $500k, and generates $300k/year in cash flow. You'd have your investment back in 2 years and you'd finally be a successful business owner

Leverage your good credit, C-suite skills and buy the bish instead of building it from scratch LOL.

I'm actively looking for a business to buy right now Thanks though, it's good to hear people have the same thoughts

 

[TreyAllDay]

What am I missing?

Honestly, this is just me, but I feel it's hard to completely MISS why a business is failing.
When I run into issue in my business, I write down what the issue is and every possibility for why.

All driven by a single idea - I want to solve needs, simplify and automate, and scale.

I wasn't getting enough business/interest, so I made a pivot. Analyzed the data. If I'm ever unsure of why there's a lack of need or business is slow, I drill down into that data. Until you know why things are happening, you're vulnerable.

If I'm investing more time in my product than I want, I look at why. Do I need to invest in better product training, support, or can I find a way to automate this?

Scale - am I reaching enough customers? Do I need to expand my markets?

Every failure should come with a clear reason why - fix that reason, write down where you failed and why as honest as possible.

 

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[TreyAllDay]

I agree it is relatively simple to miss why a specific business is failing. I've seen all sorts of failures with my businesses. The question is more about why I (as in me personally) am failing consistently with my businesses. There is an issue with the process I undertake when deciding on and commiting to an idea. I thought I was choosing good ideas that met a need but obviously not. Lots of people in this thread have been really helpful in pointing out that I wasn't doing that. It is difficult to see what is staring you in the face sometimes. Perhaps just being too close to my own ideas caused that kind of "blindness" which is why posting here is so useful.

100% - and this is where, for all the love I have for the Fastlane concept, you have to understand it's just a framework and guideline.

I got caught in this too. Yes - the commandment of need is KEY. But there's more to identifying needs than having people tell you " I wish there was a solution for problem X" because half the time people don't actually know what they want. It's so easy to want to be drawn to discovering the "idea" but there's so much more process involved in validating that idea. For example, I was an intrapreneur at my old work and our franchisees who were struggling asked for an e commerce solution for selling product.

We rolled something out and nobody used it, turns out that regardless of what they said, they were just bad, uncommitted, business people and we needed to work on much more significant problems first. The need was there, I heard it with my own two ears, but nobody used it because there was another unspoken factor.

Recently I secured a contract for my business and I presented a product I didn't even build yet. I did a mockup on photoshop. I thought the need Existed, I heard the need was there, but would people pay the right amount for that need to be solved- turns out yes. And although there is still a ton of validation needed, I'm closer than I was.

 

[peacemaker]

How much time do you spend with people who are at where you want to be? Or people at least trying similar things alongside you?

Trying to be successful in a bubble is difficult - I know because I've spent huge swaths of time slogging it out in the trenches alone. Anytime I stick my head up and connect with others though I get a HUGE boost of not only motivation but also ideas, inspiration, a push to step outside my norm, and a look into the habits and efforts of others.

Usually it shines a pretty good light on why what I've been doing hasn't been working.

I have several good friends that are running their own businesses and I keep in touch regularly. I have a close friend who I see weekly who is a multi-millionaire from his own business sale. I am also friends with several very wealthy guys who invest in tech startups who I met through my career.

I know exactly what you mean, being with people who have the success you want does give you motivation and understanding that these things are totally possible. These guys are just normal people and often they don't have any special skills, just the motivation and determination to go out and build something for themselves. I'm just like them and have never been afraid of taking risks and starting a business. The only difference is none of my businesses have taken off the way I want them too yet.

 

[peacemaker]

What are you actually expecting?

If you're making a C suite employee level income minus all the problems that come from running a business I'd just try to figure out what you're wanting to create and base it in reality.

There's very few businesses that grow to the point where you make $150/yr after even 2-5 years. You need to figure out what your reality looks like and where to best position yourself with where you currently are in life. If I was making that kind of income I'd build a real estate business because I could buy quite a few income properties. I probably wouldnt start an e-commerce store right off that bat because the time involvement and attention it needs when starting wouldnt pan out not to mention the skills you need to develop at first.

Just my 2cents

I hear what you're saying and it's part of my problem. It sounds like such a "first world problem" but I simply can't keep going back to the jobs, even if they are well paid C-level jobs. I know a smart thing to do is hunker down, get the best position I can and earn loads of money to invest in business and real estate and believe me, I have tried this approach. In fact, this is how I tend to afford my various business opportunities. But there are only so many times you can go around that same process and not succeed before you have to be honest and figure out what is wrong.

As for your question to what I'm expecting.... well, I'm expecting that with my skills and experience I should be able to build a solid business that at first can at least replace my salary and has the potential to grow to make me financially independent. I've built a bunch of them but I'm not there yet. I still truly believe I will get there. I wonder though if I'm going about it the best way.

 

[peacemaker]

Your story is similar to mine: A slow-lane success that can't stand working for someone else any longer. Although I've worked on side projects for probably over 10 years, I think it really hit me about 5 years ago that I really cannot do the slowlane thing anymore. That's when I started feeling the sense of urgency, so I really started getting serious about building a business.

The important thing is learning from each failure. I look back at the projects I used to start and I laugh at how ignorant I was to think they would work. I've learned so much from the failures that each new project is better than the previous.

So, don't give up. As long as you keep learning, you're not a failure.

Yes exactly, well explained. I just can't do the slowlane job anymore even if it is well paid. It's not what I want out of life. Life is too short to sit counting the hours and wishing I was out doing my own business rather than working for someone else. I actually think this feeling is magnified when working in upper management because you more regularly deal with investors and wealthy CEO's who have already got what you are looking for.

 

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[peacemaker]

I can imagine what you mean about being in management. In my case I'm just a software engineer, and decided a long time ago I didn't wanna go into management because I get so much freedom (at least in my current job) just being an engineer. I don't know anyone with the desire to be an entrepreneur so they don't get it. To them, this is the perfect life. Earn six figures, enjoy the weekends, and eventually retire.

Think about why your businesses failed. If it's true that they met all the criteria, then was it your lack of marketing knowledge that was the problem? Is there anything else you need to learn that would help you, that you don't already know?

That's always been my issue. I would spend months working on a project, and once I finished it and tried putting up a few ads, I would get discouraged almost right away, and would drop the project.

Did you give up too soon?

My current project I left for dead after feeling discouraged. I created the website 2 years ago, and gave up on it way too soon. Then I got a few monthly subscribers sprinkled throughout the years. Then I realized that I hadn't given it my all and I would always wonder whether the project could have worked. I decided to create an iPhone app so I wouldn't wonder what would have happened if I had built an app and targeted people on the App Store. I finished the app like a month and a half ago, and it has given new life to this project.

I don't know if I'll be successful with this one, but I currently have 11 monthly subscribers (some are paying annually). My point is that even if it turns out I can't turn this into something big, I'm using it as a way to learn Apple Search Ads, Facebook Ads, Adwords, and Google Analytics.

My other point is that this current project is already the most successful one I've ever created and that alone is something to feel good about. So keep learning. You only have to be right once.

If your projects did meet all the criteria, then as MJ says, did you put your product in front of enough people? That's where I am right now. If I can get 11 subscribers to commit to paying a recurring fee without having put my product in front of enough people (because so far I've sucked at it), then I'm thinking I may be onto something...But I need to get better at promoting it. What do you need to get better at? Where exactly did your projects fail?

Thanks for sharing your story. I've been a software engineer for a long time before moving into management although I do still write code everyday. So I know exactly what you mean.

"Did you give up too soon?" - Yes, probably. If there is a pattern coming from the replies on this thread I think that might be it. Perhaps the answer is to FOCUS and PERSEVERE.

 

[safff]

@AgainstAllOdds @safff Thank you both for taking the time to analyse this stuff for me. It's been really useful and quite eye opening. With some perspective you can obviously see it's true what you both have said. A lot of those businesses were not good for a variety of reasons.

Interesting you both picked up on the software business as being the best choice. Stick with what you know as they say. I know it's the most likely way for me to get the the lifestyle I want but over the years I have gotten more burnt out and jaded with writing software everyday which is probably why I attempted all those different types of things. It's one thing to understand intellectually what is the smartest route, it's another to know emotionally. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think I would be very happy building a completely software orientated business and that would most likely affect the outcome of the business. But I hear what you guys are saying so thankyou again.

I will also think about doing a progress thread, thanks for the suggestion!

Completely understand that - I've found myself in exactly the same position.

I'm not saying to stick with what you know per say, but to at least think about exploiting what you know as a starting point, especially if you're struggling for viable ideas.

You have a skillset that many people struggle with or lack in their businesses, so maybe try to look at using it from other angles. It could mean as an example targeting businesses that want to grow with a customised software or finding a solution using your abilities in another industry - lots of opportunities other than doing a software engineer job.

I grew to hate my day job, and spent a year trying to start instant success businesses. Dropship sites mostly. Recently took a different approach and have quit my job and found a niche area related to the job to focus my business on with additional opportunities (one software based funnily enough) that come up during the course. But it's a means to an end - a mechanism to set myself and the business up to grow into other areas altogether and making good money under my own terms until such a time when that happens in the next 6-12 months.

 

[luniac]

wow you made thousands a month with your businesses?
Id be successful and financially free with that.
I fail to see the failure.

 

[peacemaker]

Did you work on your projects until the market echoed some feedback?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The coffee shop for example the market pretty much proved it was a bad idea by not coming in the door! I talk to my customers of the software business and they tell me what they like and dislike about the product which is invaluable. But a lot of the old businesses I listed earlier I think in hindsight (and with help from people in this thread) I did not work on some of them long enough to know for sure if success was an option.

Peseverence is key, I get that. Now I must learn the line where peseverence becomes stuborness. I think with a lot more research up front I can avoid some of these mistakes before I start simply by truly knowing the business meets CENTS requirements.

 

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[peacemaker]

Are you going to be happy working 50 years at a job you hate?

Quit mistaking the business grind as a walk in the park. Sounds like you've been corrupted by the worst two pieces of advice infecting the internet ... "follow your passion" and "do what you love."

I have a great life. Wanna know why? Because I did what I hated, not loved. And in conquering those challenges, I grew as a person realized my dreams.

So you're saying stop being a pussy? I hear ya!

 

[Blair]

Apply your time, energy and effort into something that excites you and something that makes $. If it doesn't excite you then you wont put the required amount of energy and effort into it and if it doesn't make you money you wont put the time into it (and so you shouldn't)

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Don't try and error. Just copy others who already done it. Copy successful people.

Copy? Like how? Elaborate please.

 

[maverick]

I've seen a lot of this kind of advice before. I think he means simply to take a successful business that is obviously earning money and then copy what they do to take a slice of the pie.

Not a big fan of that idea myself. If you're going after a successful niche I think you need to add something new to your offering. Kind of what you said about relative value earlier in the thread. What's the point of just adding yet another <thing> if plenty already exist? None. And that is generally reflected in the lack of success the copycat business sees.

There is just so much crap all over the internet with business advice. "Follow your passion!", "Copy success", "You must change the world!", "Find a micro-niche", "Appeal to many people" and so on and so on. It is so tiring. I have decided to cut the crap and focus. It was clear to me when starting out in business and I feel it got a bit muddled over time but truly all that matters is PROVIDING VALUE. If you have something to offer of value, everything else is just a strategy or add-on to get that value to people.

I agree, however you can apply this with a twist. Take, for example, the Samwer brothers. They founded a company called Rocket Internet that takes the concept of successful US startups, copies it, and launches it in other markets.

For more info:
Inside the clone factory: the story of the Samwer brothers and Rocket Internet
Germany's Samwer Brothers To Become Billionaires With Rocket Internet IPO

As a consequence of their success though, they've fuelled the startup scene in EU:
Rocket Internet closes $1B fund, the largest out of Europe to date

My main takeaway is that you can study successful enterprises and extract a blueprint as to what created their success. You can put that blueprint to work for your own business (or at least pick the elements that work for you).

 

[peacemaker]

You try, you fail, but do you learn?

Are you repeating the same mistakes in different disguises (read: different businesses, different industries etc)?

It's hard to advise where you may be going wrong when we don't know what the journey has looked like, what the businesses are etc.

You've climbed the ladder, gained technical knowledge, do you need to be building a business closer to your core rather than in various industries etc?

How long have you stuck out a business etc, 6 to 7 over 10 years could indicate a year or less in many of them. Have you tried to grow them rather than abandoning them when they don't grow organically?

You say the businesses fail but also that they make a couple of grand a month. What does failure look like to you? Are they *actually* failing, or are you folding them before they flourish? Are you writing them off as a failure for not fast-tracking your ambitions?

Questions, not necesarily criticisms..

I spend time thinking about these things a lot actually. Recently a lot too as I have decided to take the next couple of months for some serious introspection and decide on next steps, preferably business related.

I believe I learn new things and don't repeat mistakes but it is difficult to judge yourself, right? I know that I have become much stronger at evaluating new business opportunities now I've had a lot of experience with various kinds. People actually come to me for business advice and tend to do well using it. Somehow I'm failing to translate this knowledge to my own success.

You're right a couple of the businesses didn't last long at all. One was a partnership with a friend I realized early on that could ruin our friendship so stopped it (lesson learned!) and another was a coffee shop I actually rushed into the location and found the footfall lacking to the point I was earning less than minimum wage for a 80hr work week. Again, valuable lessons learned on trading time for money and evaluating the business properly. Nowadays I don't make those kinds of mistakes anymore.

The couple of grand business was my biggest success and in hindsight maybe I could have stuck with it to fix the things that took up my time so much. In the end I sold it and the proceeds have enabled me to be more picky about what I do next so there was some good from it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, really useful.

 

[PedroG]

Thanks for sharing your story. I've been a software engineer for a long time before moving into management although I do still write code everyday. So I know exactly what you mean.

"Did you give up too soon?" - Yes, probably. If there is a pattern coming from the replies on this thread I think that might be it. Perhaps the answer is to FOCUS and PERSEVERE.

This has been tough for me too. You read so much about "fail fast" and at the same time, "persevere." It's tough to know when you're not failing fast enough vs not trying long enough.

 

[LuckyPup]

I want success. Success to me is financial freedom. Freedom to pick and choose when I work on my business and when I enjoy time with my friends and family and hobbies.

Some people would say I am successful. In my (slowlane) career I have reached the top of the ladder, to the point where many companies and startups want me to join them as an employee. A C-level employee but an employee nonetheless.

In my business endevours I am a failure. Sure, I built up a few things of moderate success, from a couple hundred a month to a couple grand a month but nothing more. I think I'm up to my 6th or 7th business over the last 10 years now and success seems as far away as all the other attempts. I've followed the advice, my businesses meet needs, scale, entry, time and control requirements. I give them all 100% focus and time and don't give up easily, yet still they fail.

Where do I go from here? When I'm feeling negative I think perhaps business is not for me, but those thoughts are fleeting. I know I have learned so much from my previous businesses that each new business gets a step close to success. That experience combined with my technical background I should be able to make anything successful.

I've tried many things to break the pattern. I've worked across industries and media. Bricks-and-mortar businesses to online and mail order. I've traveled the world and spent time at meetups and business groups. I've worked extremely difficult jobs and very boring ones too. I've lived in business hub cities across the world and out in the remote countryside too.

What am I missing?

It's hard to lend meaningful advice when I don't know what your ventures were, what the time frame for each was, or what you did, or didn't do to make them successful. Not knowing any of that and reading between the lines of your post, it seems as if you're looking for edification and accountability - both of which are outside your locus of control. Look inward, not outward, grasshopper. I suspect that you already know why your ventures failed - you're chasing money, rather than finding opportunities to solve problems and deliver value. Lesson learned. Fail forward.

 

[GMSI7D]

What am I missing?

the things you should consider are your core values about life and the tools to get and sustain them

what do you really want to do with money ?

money is a tool, not the end. you won't eat money or sleep in it

you will use it for specifics ends but maybe you can get these ends with others ways than using money

you have to reframe things and think outside the box

leaders among cave men or religious leaders were free and powerful : they had all the luxuries of ancient time without using money

money is a way but not the only way to get abundance in your life

 

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[peacemaker]

Maybe you're bad at sales and marketing?

You mind sharing the ideas that failed and making quick summaries for each one? Including reasons why you think they failed? The more details we have, the easier it will be to pinpoint why you failed, give advice, then you adjust, and hopefully make money.

Yep, I think that's definitely a major problem of mine. I do know a lot about sales and marketing in theory and from working alongside some really amazing sales people but I'm not so good at turning the theory into practice. I understand at first you must do things that don't scale like hitting the streets and meeting customers, cold calling and emailing and so on. I know about SEO and can use PPC and A/B testing to get good results there. I've tried content marketing, drip campaigns, reaching out to influencers. I've sat with customers and implemented what they want right then and there. But still, it all doesn't feel like I know enough. Perhaps it's simply I don't stick with those methods long enough?

It's a lot to list everything out but early on (before TMF and when I was quite naive) I opened a internet cafe and later on a coffee shop. As I learned more I decided to stick closer to my skills and built a couple of dropshipping stores, then eventually a software plugins business which I sold. I built a car parts website, an event booking system, a website for artists to share their work, a football game, a community for gamers. Recently I built another software plugins business but it isn't having the success of the other one. Some of these things I've done around my full time job, others I have quit my job to focus on. I've also tried a few really small things I wouldn't really count as full businesses such as affiliate marketing and building an ad-supported content site for one of my hobbies.

I think lots of failed simply because I was unable to attract enough customers. Maybe others are solving a problem that didnt exist. Or going into areas that the competition was high and much better than what I built.

 

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[Greg R]

I'm not sure that I want the competition for a slot but F*ck it...
Marketplace - The ForeverJobless Incubator opens for a 2017 class

@jon.a stepping up to the plate! Awesome.

 

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[peacemaker]

@AgainstAllOdds @safff Thank you both for taking the time to analyse this stuff for me. It's been really useful and quite eye opening. With some perspective you can obviously see it's true what you both have said. A lot of those businesses were not good for a variety of reasons.

Interesting you both picked up on the software business as being the best choice. Stick with what you know as they say. I know it's the most likely way for me to get the the lifestyle I want but over the years I have gotten more burnt out and jaded with writing software everyday which is probably why I attempted all those different types of things. It's one thing to understand intellectually what is the smartest route, it's another to know emotionally. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think I would be very happy building a completely software orientated business and that would most likely affect the outcome of the business. But I hear what you guys are saying so thankyou again.

I will also think about doing a progress thread, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[TonyStark]

What your title reminded me of:

 

[SYK]

I know it's the most likely way for me to get the the lifestyle I want but over the years I have gotten more burnt out and jaded with writing software everyday which is probably why I attempted all those different types of things.

Do you have to do the coding? Why not outsource it so you can get on with selling? If you plan to scale, at some point you can't be writing all the software yourself. Outsourcing has never been easier or cheaper thanks to geoarbitrage.

 

[ZeroToOne]

wow you made thousands a month with your businesses?
Id be successful and financially free with that.
I fail to see the failure.

In all seriousness, I envy you. Your financial targets are well within reach and shouldn't take too long to hit!

I don't know your situation, but in my case, things like marriage, kids, aging parents, college funds, house, desire to travel, etc... all tend to up the ante on what constitutes "financial freedom".

 

[peacemaker]

Copy? Like how? Elaborate please.

I've seen a lot of this kind of advice before. I think he means simply to take a successful business that is obviously earning money and then copy what they do to take a slice of the pie.

Not a big fan of that idea myself. If you're going after a successful niche I think you need to add something new to your offering. Kind of what you said about relative value earlier in the thread. What's the point of just adding yet another <thing> if plenty already exist? None. And that is generally reflected in the lack of success the copycat business sees.

There is just so much crap all over the internet with business advice. "Follow your passion!", "Copy success", "You must change the world!", "Find a micro-niche", "Appeal to many people" and so on and so on. It is so tiring. I have decided to cut the crap and focus. It was clear to me when starting out in business and I feel it got a bit muddled over time but truly all that matters is PROVIDING VALUE. If you have something to offer of value, everything else is just a strategy or add-on to get that value to people.

 

[Ayanle Farah]

One problem I believe most of us deal with is being able to accurately determine whether a business needs more time and effort before a breakthrough happens or if it's pointless.

The possibility that you may be wasting years of your life when you could do something else because of no feedback to the contrary is incredibly tough to deal with.

The fact is when we lay down a venture once and for all, we don't really know how close or far away we were from success.

So my suggestion would be to go back and review all the businesses you have tried in the past. With your current experience, if you attempt them again, you may find something you weren't able to see many years ago.

 

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[Brander]

As I learned more I decided to stick closer to my skills and built a couple of dropshipping stores, then eventually a software plugins business which I sold. I built a car parts website, an event booking system, a website for artists to share their work, a football game, a community for gamers. Recently I built another software plugins business but it isn't having the success of the other one. Some of these things I've done around my full time job, others I have quit my job to focus on. I've also tried a few really small things I wouldn't really count as full businesses such as affiliate marketing and building an ad-supported content site for one of my hobbies.

I think lots of failed simply because I was unable to attract enough customers. Maybe others are solving a problem that didnt exist. Or going into areas that the competition was high and much better than what I built.

You're thinking too small. Go after much bigger things, your time spend will be the same.

 

[Brander]

This has been tough for me too. You read so much about "fail fast" and at the same time, "persevere." It's tough to know when you're not failing fast enough vs not trying long enough.

It's not about any of that. If you contact enough prospects you WILL make it.

 

[peacemaker]

Why couldn't you go back to work if your back was against the wall if everything fell apart?

You don't have to burn bridges - there's always going back if you NEED to.

That has always been my attitude but I think what the above poster meant was that because I have that possiblilty, I will never truly give my all to a business because I never have to worry about it failing and me being homeless etc.

Perhaps it is too easy to rely on always having that safety net... not sure.

 

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