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I need help marketing my guitar course for beginners

The-J

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As for the price, yes maybe it's too much. But do think it's worth more than $17, definitely.

Who else thinks this? Your buyers?

Successfully sell this product and you'll prove us all wrong.

I highly (HIGHLY) recommend starting in local with a tutoring/training/teaching offer. Classes + upsell to one-on-one. It's a model that works well locally and can make you quite a lot of money... and give you a ton of testimonials when you relaunch this product (hopefully a more competitive version of this product, because as it stands, you're not convincing anyone).

What do people want to learn guitar for? To get laid or live their rockstar dreams, mainly.

A more advanced course will appeal to musicians who already know how to play guitar. You could go after that market a little better with the whole "play it correctly" angle.
 
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Johnny1975

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Read this - https://thefoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/TheFoundation-MarketingMindsetFreeReport.pdf

M
inor league marketers are on the edge of "getting it." They still think the first step in starting a business is to create a product. Minor league marketers view their skill set as the bottleneck for value creation. It's like... they know what they need to do, but for whatever reason… can't get things to "work." "What do I know, what skills do I have that people would pay for?" … is a question they like to ask themselves. And it's usually a stressful question, because it's focused on THEM. And not their market (customers).

A baseball coach who wants to make passive income will create a how to play baseball product with videos, slap up a website with a buy button, and then go months without a sale. What went wrong? "Huh, it just didn't work?" says the baseball coach. What didn't work? The coach started with a product, instead of learning about the problems in his market. Let’s see what the baseball coach would do if only he were one level higher...

Yeah that's how it feels. I really do think that anyone who does my course will get a lot from it. Sometimes I want to drag people off the street and make them do it. I'll read that PDF, thanks.
 

Johnny1975

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Who else thinks this? Your buyers?

Successfully sell this product and you'll prove us all wrong.

I highly (HIGHLY) recommend starting in local with a tutoring/training/teaching offer. Classes + upsell to one-on-one. It's a model that works well locally and can make you quite a lot of money... and give you a ton of testimonials when you relaunch this product (hopefully a more competitive version of this product, because as it stands, you're not convincing anyone).

What do people want to learn guitar for? To get laid or live their rockstar dreams, mainly.

A more advanced course will appeal to musicians who already know how to play guitar. You could go after that market a little better with the whole "play it correctly" angle.

Well maybe I should just give it away for free (in installments, to a mailing list?) and use it as a marketing tool for a more advanced course. It would be a shame if poor Johnny can't make any money from this directly though. I just keep thinking about those 9 months that it took to do this, and all the frustrations along the way.
 

The-J

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I just keep thinking about those 9 months that it took to do this, and all the frustrations along the way.

Don't scrap it: improve it. If you're as good at teaching guitar as you say you are, you would have no problem actually putting more time into building this course.

You could give it away in bits and pieces. You could then upsell to Skype lessons or an interactive web class, or something.

You could spend another 9 months thoroughly researching the market and seeing what else is out there, looking for ways to improve.

(I do hope you've actually found a starving crowd, though. Although with guitar, it shouldn't be too hard to find.)
 
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Choate

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The funny thing is, everyone is only saying $97 is too high of a price because of the way you present your product. If I walked you through a home which had discolorations on the wall, dog shit on the floor, dishes which weren't done, a bathroom in dire need of a remodeling, a lawn that wasn't cut, furniture which didn't go well with the living space, and it was a rainy day to boot - you are going to laugh when I have an asking price of $400,000 - and likely low ball me or walk away completely.

Despite the home being built in 2010, being structurally sound, in a good neighborhood, good schools, and being perfect size for a family, it just will not sell. Did I mention that no one can even find the name of the road its on because its way too damn long and hard to remember? (hint: your URL) Your product is essentially the same exact thing.

Your website is the dog shit on the floor (not literally, just throwing in a little humor here). Your copywriting is the uncut grass coupled with the rainy day outside. The lack of videos and pictures is in essence, the poor choice of furniture and layouts for the house.

But we know the house is still structurally sound, and I have a feeling that you still have a very legitimate product to offer people. So what gives?

At this point, the intrinsic value of your product is irrelevant, what matters is the perceived value. You have done everything you can to create something that will legitimately help someone in the right hands. That's the intrinsic value of the product. But your product has very little in way of perceived value. High intrinsic, low perceived.

So let's flip it using your own example: you purchased a $130 business course which you felt cheated because it only had 100 pages of text, duplicated video, and didn't even have a fancy cover. Why? High perceived value, low intrinsic value. It seemed like it was worth it because it had a mark down from $400, is a trending topic, had something that triggered you to emotionally buy it, and it just happened to be in the right place at the right time when the right person found it. Coincidence?

All you need to do is work on your perceived value, because its obvious that you feel passionate about your course. $97 might not be too high. You could very well have a $299 product on your hands. The higher you price it though, the higher your perceived value must be. With your current website, that product is worth nothing. Not even free. If you can work on everything everyone is telling you, then you can figure out the maximum price that you can put it so that when the right person lands on it at the right time, they will have a high chance of pulling the trigger.
 

Thiago Machado

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The-J

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I'll bet you that if you condense what you've been "given" here today down, you just got for free way more value than that course you took.

Except we're not very nice about it. We made Johnny here feel like he wasted his time.

Which is fine. I've wasted my time on shit that wouldn't work because I was the one in the way of making it work.

Sometimes it ain't just the offer: it's you. Your mindset, your ideas about what constitutes 'value' in the marketplace, your approach to actually validating it in the market.

The offer CAN be made good! It can be improved! It can be turned from this dog shit to something quite nice, something people would be BEGGING to pay $97 for!

I know this because there is a huge market of people out there who wanna learn how to master the guitar. But OP needs to focus on whom he's trying to provide value for. Just making a guitar course won't do it. But I bet after taking on 100 guitar students with a new mindset of providing value, he'll figure out what they have in common. Why?

1) He has access to a starving crowd, and

2) He is learning the actual frustrations of students at multiple levels!

OP: you'll get it right, but you gotta keep your eyes on the road.
 

MP_fLEX

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So much good info here, it's almost overwhelming how much stuff can be done to improve your situation.

Another suggestion is to break down that product into several smaller sections.
You can then sell them a-la-carte for say 25-30 bucks & then bundle them up for 1 lump sum at a discounted rate.

As mentioned before,
see for yourself what some successful instructors are doing:
http://www.rick-graham.co.uk/hd-video-guitar-lessons-store1.html

This guys is asking 20 bucks for 20 minutes of instruction bundled with backing tracks.
"Don't want that lesson? Great, here's 10 more that might interest you"
It's 200 dollars for the full package (vs 275 individually).


The other guitarist I came across on IG:
https://andyjamesguitaracademy.com/
As soon as you arrive on his page, there's a lead magnet along with a video & the USP. Lots of testimonials too.
The products themselves are about 40 bucks for say an hour or so worth of instruction. Everything looks high quality.

What stuck out most from these two is there is no technical guitar jargon up front on their sales pages.
There's no upstroke/downstroke charts, chord tabs, or any of that DMaj - CMaj music theory mumbo jumbo.

It's just a couple paragraphs of copy on what the lesson is about, what it can do for you, and what the package includes. Simple & to the point, which it to play guitar & be awesome.
 
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sharkas

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Well, actually, you can't deliver enough value. This guy does http://www.justinguitar.com/ and for free.

You need a better positionning, a better product. Maybe don't do something for beginners, there are a lot of top site for that, including the link I gave above, which is one of the best ( and free ). I don't know your level, but in a competitive market like that ( and it's not a primary desire like get laid, get paid, lose weight ), you will have to be creative and listen to what people wants.
 

mayana

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Pricing:

I don't think that a good course that will really do what you say it will do is overpriced at $97. As a musician and someone who pays for lessons for kids, I know for a fact that 97 bucks is a STEAL if it will teach you anything.

But the question is, does the random guy who thinks it will be cool to play the guitar know that? Anyone who has learned how to play an instrument knows that it took WAY longer than they thought it would to actually get there.

So the random person lands on your page, and they just want to see what it will do for them. Not what it will teach them, as far as details, but what it will DO for them. Like how cool of a player will they be after they've finished your course.

To get them to buy you have to convince them that your course will help them be that guitar player they've always wanted to be. And for your course to work (and to get good reviews and feedback) you have to "hook" them on the guitar so they'll hopefully keep going with it.

Website:

I don't think your page is TERRIBLE (I've seen worse haha), but it could use a lot of improvement. I'm no expert on this, but I could suggest a plugin that I use called Ultimate Landing Page for Wordpress. There is a free template, but there are a bunch of premium ones for less than $40. Which is a really cheap price, considering that you will make it back twice on just one sale. You can download it here: https://wordpress.org/plugins/ultimate-landing-page/ and then just upload it. I've only been using it for a little while, so someone else may have a different suggestion.

Marketing:

I think YouTube is great, and I've been using it in order to build an (hopefully!!) audience for a course that I have almost completed. Not music related. But it's a big part of my plan at first, along with SEO and Instagram.

I've actually purchased guitar courses from a guy that makes videos for YouTube. He does endless covers of songs, and then if you want the details (like the chords and fingerings, lyrics, etc) you can just hop over to his site and download his e-books, which contain about 30 songs each. They aren't really like a "course", but for my husband they were great since he just wanted to play the songs that he likes.

So it's like that guy gives people a taste, and if they want more, they pay. PM me if you want the link to his YouTube channel, website. Last I checked his website looked like it was made in 1995, but I still bought from him because his YouTube videos were top notch. So I think that's a lesson, too. If you have a good, strong following, people will buy from you anyway. But that's also the catch, since you've got to build a following, which is tough.

Hope this helps!!
 
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biophase

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Holy crap! 52 pages for one song?

Sounds hard. Too hard for me!

I'm sure that's what someone's thinking when they see that.

Isn't that song a few chords? I feel like there's just way too much text and not enough images.

Also, a video would be much easier to learn from vs an ebook.
 

Hai

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The biggest problem of any product is to get the first sale.
Find out how to get the first sale and then focus on getting more of those.
It´s simple as that.
Get feedback from beta testers.
The course doesnt need to be perfect, but you need enough sales to fund further improvement.

You put a lot of time into this, but now listen. Put it aside for some time.

Learn Marketing and Sales.
Learn Marketing and Sales.
Learn Marketing and Sales.
Learn Marketing and Sales.
Learn Marketing and Sales.
 

Sanj Modha

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In Your Newsfeed
Find some influencers on IG and run a shoutout. It's not as expensive as you might think
 
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Johnny1975

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Holy crap! 52 pages for one song?

Sounds hard. Too hard for me!

I'm sure that's what someone's thinking when they see that.

Isn't that song a few chords? I feel like there's just way too much text and not enough images.

Also, a video would be much easier to learn from vs an ebook.

Maybe I could market it to people who have such a hard time getting the basics right, that they need someone like me to dumb it down to the point where even a worm could understand it. Maybe that's my niche. After all, I did say in the sales page that I'm the master of dumbing things down. And if it takes 52 pages, so be it.

This was never intended as a "learn x number of songs" type of course. It's more of a "learn to play guitar the right way" course.
 

Johnny1975

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What if I create a page on my site where I put all the content from the first part of the course for free (as well as the option to download the PDF), and then I promote that on facebook etc? Then at the end I can make an offer for the whole course for a low but reasonable price? At least once they've worked through the first part they'll know what to expect from the rest, and if it appeals to them they'll be likely to buy. The first part would effectively act as a sales page for the whole course. As much as I'd love to make $97 per sale, i'd be happy to settle for considerably less, if I can get enough customers. And besides, I can keep most of it if i'm not sharing the profit with affiliates. Maybe I can even take clickbank out of the equation too.
 

Thiago Machado

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After all, I did say in the sales page that I'm the master of dumbing things down. And if it takes 52 pages, so be it.

52 pages is considered dumbed down?

Or do you plan on dumbing down the 52 pages?
 
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Johnny1975

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52 pages is considered dumbed down?

Or do you plan on dumbing down the 52 pages?

No I think 52 pages is fine. When I say dumb it down, I mean go through every step of the way, in detail, so they understand everything. For some things, it's possible to dumb it down concisely, but for something as complex as learning a song, at least for a total beginner, I think you have to really explain everything so there's no confusion.

For the first song (the one that I linked to), there are a lot of things that need explaining, but for the rest of the songs, the PDFs aren't as long, because in the first song I talk about stuff that applies to all the songs, and guitar playing in general. For example, I talk about the principles involved in holding down a chord, how to make chords sound smooth, and stuff like that. The first PDF is where I explain the mechanics of playing the guitar, but for the rest, it's all about the songs only.

I know it sounds like I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, but if you just have a quick skim through the PDF of that first song you'll hopefully see that what I'm explaining is useful and necessary. Just take a look. It's long because I'm explaining everything so that it's crystal clear. I know what it's like to be confused, that's why I've taken the trouble to help others grasp everything. If anyone here wants to learn how to play the guitar, I'm sure they'll appreciate the level of detail that I go into. Anyway there are only 14 videos (for each chord, chord change, song section), the rest is just for reading. It's not like there are a ton of exercises.

Also bear in mind that this is a course that teaches how to play the guitar properly. It's not so much about the songs. Maybe the main problem here is that I haven't made it absolutely clear of the purpose of this course. I know that most courses are about either learning a load of techniques, or learning a load of songs. And some courses are just a load of everything, without focus. But this is different. It's simply a course that teaches total beginners how to play a few songs very competently, so that they can easily learn many more. It's to help them get a good start. Hence the title : Play songs correctly on guitar - A beginner's guide to practicing and learning a selection of songs.
 
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amp0193

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I used to teach music lessons in schools and out of my house. I'm really good at teaching.

In my experience, I can make ONE thing better a lesson/song. ONE. If I ask them to fix their vibrato, then their bow is going to be shit. If i'm asking them to fix their bow, then their left hand is going to be shit. If I give them 52 pages of things to think about, there's going to be shit in their pants.

I wouldn't have had kids in my band class at the end of the year, if I made the 6th grader play one song all year, and made them do it CORRECTLY. I could easily have do this... there are so many damn things that can go wrong with one note, let alone a song. But it wouldn't be fun or interesting to the students, who just wanted to play Justin Bieber on their tuba.


Look, when I was in college, my lessons with my professor, that I paid $90/hour for, were exactly what you're describing. Detailed as hell, and really picking apart everything. I could take it, because I was super advanced, and was already thinking on that level. He wrote the most comprehensive, detailed, bare-bones-basic fundamentals book ever wrote for the instrument, and I bought it for $80. It sounds similar to your course. What you're marketing is a college level class to beginners, and I'm not sure it makes sense.

Maybe a better target audience would people who can already play the guitar pretty good and want to go back and un-do all the shitty self-taught habits they have, that have been holding them back, and really take it to the next level.

However, I think even that premise may be flawed, as advanced players wouldn't want to work on beginner level music. They'd want to fix their fundamentals while still doing fun/harder stuff.


I know you're passionate about this, especially because you've worked so long on it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to continue working on it. That's called a Sunk-Cost Fallacy, read more here: https://foreverjobless.com/sunk-cost-fallacy/
 

Thiago Machado

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@biophase just said 52 pages is a complete turn-off. (I think so too.)

A beginner just wants to know how to play a song, not read 52 pages of a pdf.

To approach beginners, you need to make them achieve something small, yet meaningful first. Once they have accomplished a smaller goal, they gain the motivation to pursue a larger one.

And unfortunately, most of the things you're saying does not come from your potential customer's perspective, but from your own.

YOU think that's what they want.
YOU "know" what's best for them.

The moment I stumbled upon this thread I could tell that you are only focused on yourself

Your call to action was: "so how much of my hard earned cash should I fork over Johnny?"

I still had faith that with a little bit of direction you'd "get it". But it doesn't look like it.

Therefore, I am not going to give any more input on this thread. It's a waste of my time.

Many of us have personally told you what's wrong and how to fix it.

Yet, you insist on doing things your way.

If we tell you that the sales page needs to be fixed, you say you're going to focus on getting more Youtube views and that everything looks fine.

If we tell you to dumb down the content, you assure us that 52 pages is enough and what your audience needs.

I wish you the best.

Good luck!


P.S. watch this


 
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Johnny1975

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I used to teach music lessons in schools and out of my house. I'm really good at teaching.

In my experience, I can make ONE thing better a lesson/song. ONE. If I ask them to fix their vibrato, then their bow is going to be shit. If i'm asking them to fix their bow, then their left hand is going to be shit. If I give them 52 pages of things to think about, there's going to be shit in their pants.

I wouldn't have had kids in my band class at the end of the year, if I made the 6th grader play one song all year, and made them do it CORRECTLY. I could easily have do this... there are so many damn things that can go wrong with one note, let alone a song. But it wouldn't be fun or interesting to the students, who just wanted to play Justin Bieber on their tuba.


Look, when I was in college, my lessons with my professor, that I paid $90/hour for, were exactly what you're describing. Detailed as hell, and really picking apart everything. I could take it, because I was super advanced, and was already thinking on that level. He wrote the most comprehensive, detailed, bare-bones-basic fundamentals book ever wrote for the instrument, and I bought it for $80. It sounds similar to your course. What you're marketing is a college level class to beginners, and I'm not sure it makes sense.

Maybe a better target audience would people who can already play the guitar pretty good and want to go back and un-do all the shitty self-taught habits they have, that have been holding them back, and really take it to the next level.

However, I think even that premise may be flawed, as advanced players wouldn't want to work on beginner level music. They'd want to fix their fundamentals while still doing fun/harder stuff.


I know you're passionate about this, especially because you've worked so long on it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to continue working on it. That's called a Sunk-Cost Fallacy, read more here: https://foreverjobless.com/sunk-cost-fallacy/

If you wanted to create a guide teaching people from scratch how to do their shoelaces, or how to fry an egg, or something like that, I don't think you'd be able to do it effectively without going into a certain amount of detail. Playing even a few simple songs on the guitar is even more complex than those tasks. Everything you've written in your post could probably be distilled into maybe two sentences, if you were to take the time to choose the exact best words to use to make your point. But it wouldn't have the same impact or the effectiveness.

I once read a book on songwriting and then I went through every paragraph and I took every fact, every point made, and rewrote it in my own words, as concisely as possible. I basically rewrote the whole book in a simple way for my own reference so that I didn't have to go through the book again. Every time I went through my notes it was like an intense hit of information. But if the book had been written in that simple form, it wouldn't have been as effective or thorough. It worked because I had already read the book, so my notes were reminders.

If you have time, just skim through the PDF that I linked to, and I hope you'll see that it's really not that complicated. All I'm doing is explaining stuff. And please bear in mind that it's not meant to just be a tuition of a song. It's a tuition on how to play basic rhythm guitar, and the song is the vehicle.

Having said all that, if people keep telling me that it's too much, then maybe there's something that I'm not allowing myself to accept. I'm aware of that. But right now, I genuinely do think that my course is fine. I suppose it could split it up into very small, manageable sections and have it as an email series or something.
 

Johnny1975

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Well that's unfortunate Thiago, because between my responding to amp0193 and reading your post, it all clicked. All of you are right. I get it now.

My sales pages is too complicated
My course is too long, and it makes everything seem harder than it is
My call to action sounds as if I'm only thinking of myself (although in my defence, it was my way of acknowledging that their money is hard earned and not to be taken lightly)

You haven't wasted your time. It's just that I have strong convictions and when I don't get something or I disagree, I can't just pretend that I do. Don't assume that just because I'm "arguing back" that it means I'm not taking everything in. I'm simply saying exactly what's on my mind. This is just a conversation, with everyone being candid. You're all being harsh (not a bad thing) and I'm being a bit defensive. Nothing wrong with any of that. No need to give up on me. You have the luxury of having some success in what you're doing, whereas I'm a nobody and surely you must remember what it was like to struggle at the beginning. I may kick and scream a lot but I things do eventually click in my mind. There's a lot more going on than my responses. I really am thinking about what people are saying in between posts. I'm having a hard time. I feel like you've all broken me down and although it's probably going to do me a lot of good in the long term, right now I'm just like, what the hell do I do. The thought of going back and redoing this course is dreadful. Surely there has to be a fairly simple way that I can salvage this project and make at least a bit of money from this somehow. I don't know.
 

Thiago Machado

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If you wanted to create a guide teaching people from scratch how to do their shoelaces, or how to fry an egg, or something like that, I don't think you'd be able to do it effectively without going into a certain amount of detail.

You over complicate things.

What a terrible example. You don't need to effectively explain how to fry an egg. Just like you don't need to explain to a person how to play perfectly.

You're course is aimed at beginner's.

They can't even play in the first place, let alone play perfectly.

Practice makes perfect. Not reading a 52 page PDF.

Your focusing on the tiny details and not the big picture.

"Everything you've written in your post could probably be distilled into maybe two sentences, if you were to take the time to choose the exact best words to use to make your point."

Show's how grateful you are after all the feedback + resources + links.

Like I said, good luck.

P.S. - Look at your page and look at theirs - https://www.guitartricks.com/trial_splash.php?a_aid=55e4e64767be1the
Do you understand what people are saying now? The difference between amateur and pro looking sales pages?

Read this - http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/the-one-advantage

You need to learn marketing first.

Notice how many times the word "I" comes up in your posts.

It's never about you, it's about them.
 
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Johnny1975

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I'm not ungrateful. You misinterpreted my tone. See, this is why I rarely post on forums. It's a maze of misunderstandings.
 

jon.a

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Well that's unfortunate Thiago, because between my responding to amp0193 and reading your post, it all clicked. All of you are right. I get it now.

My sales pages is too complicated
My course is too long, and it makes everything seem harder than it is
My call to action sounds as if I'm only thinking of myself (although in my defence, it was my way of acknowledging that their money is hard earned and not to be taken lightly)

You haven't wasted your time. It's just that I have strong convictions and when I don't get something or I disagree, I can't just pretend that I do. Don't assume that just because I'm "arguing back" that it means I'm not taking everything in. I'm simply saying exactly what's on my mind. This is just a conversation, with everyone being candid. You're all being harsh (not a bad thing) and I'm being a bit defensive. Nothing wrong with any of that. No need to give up on me. You have the luxury of having some success in what you're doing, whereas I'm a nobody and surely you must remember what it was like to struggle at the beginning. I may kick and scream a lot but I things do eventually click in my mind. There's a lot more going on than my responses. I really am thinking about what people are saying in between posts. I'm having a hard time. I feel like you've all broken me down and although it's probably going to do me a lot of good in the long term, right now I'm just like, what the hell do I do. The thought of going back and redoing this course is dreadful. Surely there has to be a fairly simple way that I can salvage this project and make at least a bit of money from this somehow. I don't know.
Okay, that's better.
Now stop.
Stop posting.
Take the rest of the day and all day tomorrow to review and absorb what everyone has given you here.
Come back on Thursday with your thoughts.

The correct response is "okay"
 

Johnny1975

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Okay, that's better.
Now stop.
Stop posting.
Take the rest of the day and all day tomorrow to review and absorb what everyone has given you here.
Come back on Thursday with your thoughts.

The correct response is "okay"

Ok.
 
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Thiago Machado

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I'm not ungrateful. You misinterpreted my tone. See, this is why I rarely post on forums. It's a maze of misunderstandings.

I agree. It just seems like it though. It's seems as if you completely disregard what we say and then do what you think is best.
Be a little more open to suggestions from people.

Maybe a lot of us who shared our thoughts here would love to learn the guitar. We openely told you our objections as to why we would never buy from you.

Remember: feedback is king.

You'll know exactly what your customer's want if they open up their mouths. And on this thread, we've told you everything from various perspectives.

Sorry If I came a bit harsh.

No hard feelings.

I'm really just trying to help.

I know what it's like, so I can go a little overboard at times too. So I do apologize.


Let me help you out:

On your next project, be sure to VALIDATE YOUR IDEA BEFORE LAUNCHING.

See if people truly want what you're offering.

By doing this, you'll save yourself a lot of time and money. (No need to go all in for 9 months, only to realize that the marketplace doesn't quite value what you created.)

What you did was good. You asked for feedback from a marketing perspective. So just listen to us and implement what we told you that could be improved upon.

Here: http://www.appsumo.com/how-appsumo-was-built-for-50/

Also, you can benefit by reading about Scrum and A/B split testing. (especially scrum though)
 

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