Houston we have a problem...

[wade1mil]

When I see “insiders†who signed up 6 months ago who only have like 5-10 posts it kind of freaks me out. I understand that MJ is getting paid by all of this, but I don’t like the idea of people who just take from this forum with no intention of ever giving back.

Hmm.. guilty as charged. I am this guy. My goal was to get some sort of fastlane plan going before becoming active here, because we've all seen the action fakers who try to validate idea after idea but never get anywhere.

Blackkramer, I could say the same thing about someone with 100 posts or even 500 posts. After being the guy with 5-10 posts, the guy with 115 posts, 500 posts, 1000 posts, it doesn't matter. There are people with 300 posts that I trust for advice and would go out of my way to help if they asked for it, and people with more than 1000 that I wouldn't. The best way to tell is by meeting them in person.

A word of advice, don't discount someone new. I remember doing this with three people based on ONE post and they turned out to be three of the EXACT type of people I want to know. If Mark Cuban joined the forum today and purchased an INSIDERS membership, he would be one of those guys. An "INSIDERS."

 

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[PSDSH]

What happened is being overblown a little, IHMO. Yes, I don't like the copying of website content, that's completely lame. But in the real world people take good ideas and copy them and even improve on them, sometimes to the point of running the pioneer out of business. Employees learn a business from their employer and then go out and start a competitive company. It's just the business world, it isn't for the weak of heart...it happens all the time in one form or another.

I think the only thing that needs to change is that those of us that have information to share about our businesses need to play it a little closer to the vest. And if we choose to share details then we need to expect the possibility of someone taking a shortcut and copying our hard work.

My .02

 

[Runum]

What happened is being overblown a little, IHMO. Yes, I don't like the copying of website content, that's completely lame. But in the real world people take good ideas and copy them and even improve on them, sometimes to the point of running the pioneer out of business. Employees learn a business from their employer and then go out and start a competitive company. It's just the business world, it isn't for the weak of heart...it happens all the time in one form or another.

I think the only thing that needs to change is that those of us that have information to share about our businesses need to play it a little closer to the vest. And if we choose to share details then we need to expect the possibility of someone taking a shortcut and copying our hard work.

My .02

I understand your take on this, but there is a lot of info you are not addressing.

1)The founder of this forum has had his code copied and used against him several times. Using his own intellectual knowledge to try to attack him.

2)Just two weeks ago we had a member steal another person's(non fastaner) golf website and post it up as his own. When he was caught he continually denied it and then attacked MJ about it. There is no self sense of the wrong he did.

3)This latest episode was triggered because the thief asked Kenric(biophase) to help him build his business. Kenric helped him with contacts and strategy. The thief stole some of Kenric's code and then began posting up the same products for sale as Kenric When the thief was called on it he began defending and justifying his actions. He did eventually apologize and has changed his website several times recently. He has been removed from the forum.

Vig has said it best. This is symptomatic of a huge societal problem, someone can steal your stuff because they feel entitled, and then try to kill your business with your own knowledge. Some of my tenants have the attitude that if something is not being actively used or is not bolted down it must be claimed as theirs, just because it is there. I believe if it's not yours, leave it alone. I thought these were lessons taught in kindergarten?

As a result of these actions, a lot of content has been moved to the inside. Also, there are a few proposals on the table about the direction and form of the forum.

No over reaction here. Measured, appropriate action.

 

[Marc B.]

Thank you to everyone who has already posted in this thread; you made this post shorter. In all seriousness though, nearly everything that is on my mind with respect to the problem has already been said, and I would be hard pressed to say it better.

MJ has received my support several times over as I shared the book with my family and even bought a couple more copies for us and our friends. The things I have learned from reading his book are invaluable, and it is my pleasure to share it and to contribute to the collection of knowledge on this forum.

You fastlaners made it because you are selfless givers. Money and success in business came as a byproduct of the value that you provided (and continue to provide). I would hate for you to start feeling guilty for sharing what you know, but given the circumstances, I can empathize.

As a college student I understand that education is not free, so I have no problem paying my Fastlane tuition to continue learning here. I'll see you on The Inside!

 

[socaldude]

But in the real world people take good ideas and copy them and even improve on them, sometimes to the point of running the pioneer out of business.

There is a big difference between someone taking an already existing idea to improve it and someone STEALING and BETRAYING. A Honda Civic and a Toyota Corolla are both sedans/vehicles(idea) but are they the same product? Nope they have a completely different blueprint(different design, engine parts etc).

Me taking MJDemarcos book and script and rewriting it, taking out words, adding a few sentences here and there and paraphrasing and calling it the Billionaire Fastlane is STILL STEALING.

Take FedEx and UPS. They are both Shipping companies. But you will be shocked at just how different they operate and function as a business internally.

These are all like TRADE SECRETS that these Entrepreneurs on here took YEARS yes YEARS to develop and learn. They share their knowledge and experience with the intention to help you create your OWN brand, product, etc.

Lets say you owned the Coca Cola Beverage company. You mentored me and taught me everything you know. Told me all the suppliers info, processes, procedures etc etc. How to make a good formula. etc

Then one day you see a can of soda called Koca Kola sitting next to your can of Coke on the store shelf. And it tastes almost exactly the same as yours plus or minus a few minor differences. Thats bullshit.

Yes true, life is mean and messed up in a lot of different ways but it violates a code of trust that molds relationships, even customer relationships. And when its violated, it sends shock waves of failure.


Its called VALUES. Its being grateful to your mentor and respecting their interests because they cared about yours.

If you think there are no VALUES or ETHICS in business and its "just the business world and not for the weak of heart" then you are wrong. Because the majority of business involves respecting OTHERS interests: customers, partners, stakeholders, investors etc.

 

[PSDSH]

There is a big difference between someone taking an already existing idea to improve it and someone STEALING and BETRAYING. A Honda Civic and a Toyota Corolla are both sedans/vehicles(idea) but are they the same product? Nope they have a completely different blueprint(different design, engine parts etc).

Me taking MJDemarcos book and script and rewriting it, taking out words, adding a few sentences here and there and paraphrasing and calling it the Billionaire Fastlane is STILL STEALING.

Take FedEx and UPS. They are both Shipping companies. But you will be shocked at just how different they operate and function as a business internally.

These are all like TRADE SECRETS that these Entrepreneurs on here took YEARS yes YEARS to develop and learn. They share their knowledge and experience with the intention to help you create your OWN brand, product, etc.

Lets say you owned the Coca Cola Beverage company. You mentored me and taught me everything you know. Told me all the suppliers info, processes, procedures etc etc. How to make a good formula. etc

Then one day you see a can of soda called Koca Kola sitting next to your can of Coke on the store shelf. And it tastes almost exactly the same as yours plus or minus a few minor differences. Thats bullshit.

Yes true, life is mean and messed up in a lot of different ways but it violates a code of trust that molds relationships, even customer relationships. And when its violated, it sends shock waves of failure.


Its called VALUES. Its being grateful to your mentor and respecting their interests because they cared about yours.

If you think there are no VALUES or ETHICS in business and its "just the business world and not for the weak of heart" then you are wrong. Because the majority of business involves respecting OTHERS interests: customers, partners, stakeholders, investors etc.

Nobody stole and rewrote MJ's book...you and many others rushed through his post and missed the bolded and color highlighted disclaimer: "While my above story with respect to self-publishing isn't true"

I completely agree that value and ethics in business is paramount, at least it is in my business, that's why I make my product in America and donate proceeds to charity. I'm just saying, business is a cut throat environment and not for the faint of heart. Just because we have values doesn't mean your competition will so you'd better be ready for a battle when you enter the business arena.

In the end we can only control our own actions...I'm not in any way condoning what happened, I'm just not a bit surprised.

 

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[TK1]

 

[Runum]

Nobody stole and rewrote MJ's book...you and many others rushed through his post and missed the bolded and color highlighted disclaimer: "While my above story with respect to self-publishing isn't true"

Nope, didn't miss that at all. However, that is only one story of many over the years. It is a fact that MJ has had his website code stolen and used against him several times.

We all recognize that the world of biz is pretty tough. This forum was designed to help people in biz. For years it went well. Lately we have had some people come in, get friendly, and then piss in their mentor's cornflakes.

It makes the accomplished veterans gun shy about helping anyone else going forward. This hurts the intent and integrity of the forum.

Someone, somewhere probably helped you. Where would you be if that person didn't help you? Would life have been tougher?

 

[AllenCrawley]

Nobody stole and rewrote MJ's book...you and many others rushed through his post and missed the bolded and color highlighted disclaimer: "While my above story with respect to self-publishing isn't true"

I completely agree that value and ethics in business is paramount, at least it is in my business, that's why I make my product in America and donate proceeds to charity. I'm just saying, business is a cut throat environment and not for the faint of heart. Just because we have values doesn't mean your competition will so you'd better be ready for a battle when you enter the business arena.

In the end we can only control our own actions...I'm not in any way condoning what happened, I'm just not a bit surprised.

I don't think any of us here are ignorant of this at all. We understand that business can be cut throat and that people will try to take you down by any means. I think you are missing the main point here. Maybe reread this thread and the one that sparked this one.

 

[PSDSH]

Fellas, I get it. It's sad and it sucks. But unfortunately the "fast lane" is littered with casualties. I'm just surprised that so many seem surprised.
Runum, of course I learned from others along the way and will continue to learn as long as I'm upright. My dad was an entrepreneur and I learned mostly from him and have now passed that down to my sons.

Dad told me stories of how he hired Vietnam Vets back in the 70's and trained them in the HVAC trade only to have two of them steal his supplies and customers and then open a competing business. Yep, it's unethical, but that is just the way it is. And that's one reason the slow lane is so attractive to people...slow and steady and SAFE.

I'm here to continue to gain knowledge as well as share knowledge with others. Am I going to share detailed information? Heck no! I know better, and now everyone reading this thread knows better.

Regarding the forum stuff...that also happens all the time, unfortunately. I've been a moderator at a sports forum for many years. We've been hacked 3 times, once we were completely shut down and had to start over from scratch. Again, not really a surprise. It's actually to be expected.

 

[Steele Concept]

Good thread MJ.

I believe the majority of aspiring entrepreneurs are good and ethical. Unfortunately a bad apple sometimes makes us question the whole process. Especially with the recent examples you have cited. I agree with some other members on here about forum safeguards if it is necessary.

Overall I just have trouble believing how unethical some people act... Perhaps it is due to the anonymity of the internet? Maybe they would act this way in person as well? I would have a hard time thinking that people could get away with this type of shit in person without a proper a$$ kicking or other repercussions...

Thank you everyone that is here helping others like myself. Thank you everyone that is on here and behaving in an ethical manner, that is what should just come naturally

 

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[BeingChewsie]

Dad told me stories of how he hired Vietnam Vets back in the 70's and trained them in the HVAC trade only to have two of them steal his supplies and customers and then open a competing business. Yep, it's unethical, but that is just the way it is. And that's one reason the slow lane is so attractive to people...slow and steady and SAFE.

Yup. My dad has been an electrical contractor for a gazillion years. Ultimately every long term employee has left and gone into competition with my dad after they learned the trade and business. I can almost understand an employee doing it. They at least earned it.

What happened to Kenric is a symptom of a much bigger problem that is evidenced in a our schools and universities too. Zero respect for people who have gone before you. Nobody thinks they should have to pay their dues. People do not respect that their is a hierarchy in business and in life, those people who eat higher on the food chain than you, deserve your respect. That is all out the window. I see it in our students, my husband used to see it in his university students, zero respect for him as their professor. Zero respect for mentors and it always starts with .."But I...insert whatever excuse". It is bullshit. Not suprising, but those people can not be allowed to stay here. They poison this place.

Sue

 

[InMotion]

Well its a numbers game right? If you help 50 people how many of them screwed you? 1 or 2?

The negative always stands out among the positives. If you had a great week, all week, then on Friday you had a fender bender....what are you likely to talk about next week; probably the fender bender. A rotten apple as the saying goes.

 

[Marty]

I think the worst part is not that he stole an idea/product, it's that he stole methods of execution for that idea/product by ingratiating himself to Biophase and then trying to use the philosophy we all subscribe to (it's about execution, not ideas) as a defense against his unscrupulous behavior.

 

[theBiz]

Wow sorry to hear that, i guess all we can do is diverse our business and marketing channels and just not tell too many people. Out of 100 people that try to copy only 1 will succeed i believe even with the roadmap, we need to be more selective. Im currently not an INSIDERS but if you are thinking you want to implement some sort of vetting process to people before they come in and make this a smaller community ill pay for it to support that idea. I too am starting to feel uneasy about putting step by steps out there for random trolls.

I see people in my industry stealing images, testimonials, everything. If you look at PPC advertisers you see there are some ruthless guys that will replicate entire sites with a good name and hurt them daily, not sure you can do anything about it either.

2)Just two weeks ago we had a member steal another person's(non fastaner) golf website and post it up as his own. When he was caught he continually denied it and then attacked MJ about it. There is no self sense of the wrong he did.

3)This latest episode was triggered because the thief asked Kenric(biophase) to help him build his business. Kenric helped him with contacts and strategy. The thief stole some of Kenric's code and then began posting up the same products for sale as Kenric When the thief was called on it he began defending and justifying his actions. He did eventually apologize and has changed his website several times recently. He has been removed from the forum.

wow

I agree with what Zend said, making it paid really would help. I have met some really good people here, and this forum has changed the course of my life, so its value is more than understood and i owe it some money anyway.

 

[Ghost]

Sorry for bumping this thread if it's breaking forum etiquette. I haven't been here for a long time, and haven't probably logged into this site for three or more years. I came back to this site because I'm starting a new venture, and I was looking through Biophase's posts because I remembered when I first went to start my first venture ever (an ecommerce store) his posts were helpful and extremely detailed, especially when compared with other internet marketing forums where everyone zealously guards their niches/keywords/practically everything.

Anyway, I was reading through and I ended up in the thread which inspired this topic. And to be honest, the thread nearly brought me to tears. Like I said, I have a new venture in the pipeline - and the thing that stresses me out most is that I spend so much time hopping from place to place; funding meeting here, supplier meeting there, days spent working out how many customers I can get, ringing around accountants and IP specialists. I live in the middle of nowhere, and nobody around me is wired for entrepreneurship. My point is that ultimately, people who have trodden the road and can help guide a start-up through all these things and point out the things that you wouldn't even think of thinking of, are invaluable.

Sometimes I wonder to myself why people are so reluctant to help new business - after all, it's win-win for everyone if we all get to add to the economy? And this topic (and the one it is based on) is the answer to my question. Because some people are thieves, and lending a helping hand might mean you lose a finger.

As far as, "It's only competition, so whilst it is wrong, it isn't too wrong" as an argument goes, I wonder if it's possible to count the economic cost of actions like the above: Imagine if the mentor-student relationship had have been fostered properly how much money the "student" might have made - and how much the mentor might have made from that new relationship, and how much the two of them might have spent on pizza, champagne and private yachts (and the crews, and how much champagne the crew might have drunk to celebrate their new jobs, and how the pizza boy could have used the tip to buy a domain name and start his own company.)

Ergh. Once again, sorry for the bump but I really needed to vent.

 

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[Lagron]

Huh wow. That really sucks MJ. I don't know what I would do if someone stole my ideas/what I put into them to go off and replicate/compete against me.

With that note, I just did a quick look to see what other books and such have come into being with your similar title...

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Estate-Fastlane-Millionaire-Investor-ebook/dp/B008AY8LI6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1386942679&sr=1-1&keywords=the billionaire fastlane

: / It has the same cover as yours as well, "The Real Estate Fastlane"

Not sure if Amazon has a feature to this extent since I haven't sold anything on it, but there may be something you can do, or something to report that would flag these plagiarized books, so that Amazon staff can look into them/remove them and their sellers accounts. If there isn't...they really need to get this system in place. It's not the first book I've seen that takes others information and renames it for sale.

Edit: .... Marco Devoy? ... or Snowballpublishing dot come... Don't we have a forum member that is not banned, and is called Snowball on here? (Just wondering, perhaps just a coincidence...)

 

[Vigilante]

Huh wow. That really sucks MJ. I don't know what I would do if someone stole my ideas/what I put into them to go off and replicate/compete against me.

With that note, I just did a quick look to see what other books and such have come into being with your similar title...

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Estate-Fastlane-Millionaire-Investor-ebook/dp/B008AY8LI6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1386942679&sr=1-1&keywords=the billionaire fastlane

: / It has the same cover as yours as well, "The Real Estate Fastlane"

Not sure if Amazon has a feature to this extent since I haven't sold anything on it, but there may be something you can do, or something to report that would flag these plagiarized books, so that Amazon staff can look into them/remove them and their sellers accounts. If there isn't...they really need to get this system in place. It's not the first book I've seen that takes others information and renames it for sale.

Edit: .... Marco Devoy? ... or Snowballpublishing dot come... Don't we have a forum member that is not banned, and is called Snowball on here? (Just wondering, perhaps just a coincidence...)

Old news. And Snowbank is not involved.

Next?

 

[Jonleehacker]

And Snowbank is not involved.

True, but I do think we should consider changing Bill's name from Snowbank to Snowball, much more of a poetic ring to the latter

 

[Guest3722A]

a large forum teeming with thieves

People who steal hate process.

To thin out some of the bad/lazy types, why not create a barrier/process to gain entry,

Like an essay? ( its unique too and word might spread about the site that doesn't let you in unless you write an essay lol!)

Companies that have bottlenecks of applicants many times create a pain in the a$$ writing assignment that takes time, thought and research.

This way, they thin out their interviews down to those who show that they may at least be in the ballpark of what they're looking for. Maybe figure out a way to get clues about the person through this assignment. On a side note, many trucking companies have questionnaires that they use to determine if a prospective driver is trustworthy. Which makes sense for obvious reasons.

Perhaps create a thread called the new applicant thread or something and members can decide and vote if they feel comfortable or not.


& PUT THIS THREAD ON THE INSIDE ONLY!!!!!




Just brainstorming possible solutions because to be honest, I have something I've been working on that I really really really (yes three of em) would like to share my process here to get some feedback, but, it really is not an easy thing to do

 

[McCoyH]

MJ,

You should consider raising the price of INSIDERS subscription. Then put all of the useful content (which it sounds like you've already done somewhat) in the inside. At your current subscription prices I'd be willing to say half of the thieves are still going to buy access to and of the valuable content and swipe/deploy like they already are. A higher price would weed out the thieves and wantrepenuers while still generating the same revenue for you.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm be more than happy to pay a much higher premium for content that I know isn't exposed to every 15 year old with a laptop in the world...

Something to think about maybe?

 

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[tafy]

Just keep doing what your doing MJ, just because 1 person has pissed people off dont let it ruin it for the masses.

99% are good, dont let the 1% F*ck you up.

 

[McCoyH]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AY8LI6/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

WTF

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Bump, since the forum is growing like a weed.

You should consider raising the price of INSIDERS subscription.

That might happen as well ... its growing in there beyond expectations as well. The INSIDE was supposed to be an intimate gathering and now it is 500 strong of mostly those who do not post.

 

[JAJT]

The INSIDE was supposed to be an intimate gathering and now it is 500 strong of mostly those who do not post.

Is there any way of setting up an "invite only" sub-section within the inside?

Or perhaps reviving the speedway to be accessible only by those above a certain speed, regardless of subscription status (IE: buying a subscription does NOT buy you into the speedway)?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[tafy]

MJ I dont want to sound rude but....

You advertise to join the inside quite a bit, but now are complaining you are too popular with the subscriptions.
Lots of posters also recommend joining all the time to read the legendary threads, maybe thats what they did and then they didnt come back or are busy?

Solutions:

Stop advertising the inside subscription
Make a thread on the inside to ask INSIDERS not to advise people to join the inside
Make INSIDERS subscription referal only, or to have a yes/no vote for inside members.

Personally I love it that the inside has 500 members now, the more the merrier I think. People might have to be careful on what details they give on certain ideas but thats common sense. Jacking up the price and putting people off joining the inside is bad idea personally, nothing wrong with small increases. A superspeedway might be good with access to INSIDERS with 100+ speed .

 

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[wade1mil]

Personally I love it that the inside has 500 members now, the more the merrier I think.

100% disagree. One of the reason I am not as active as I use to be is because there are too many idiots posting garbage advice and stealing ideas. Because of this, the people that have serious value to offer don't open up as much and the entire forum suffers from it. I'm sure five years ago the posts very really valuable, and they were valuable two years ago, but 50% of what I read now are questions you can Google or advice by people who shouldn't be giving it. The paid section of the website should eliminate all of that, and cash being the barrier to entry is not enough.

There needs to be a qualifying process for people to even have the opportunity to get into the INSIDE, and it shouldn't have to do with money at all. Speed, votes, whatever. But they should have to qualify somehow. The amount of money is completely arbitrary, and up to MJ to charge whatever he wants to charge, and it would be up to the person who is invited to the INSIDE whether they want to pay it or not.

 

[Phones]

Bump, since the forum is growing like a weed.



That might happen as well ... its growing in there beyond expectations as well. The INSIDE was supposed to be an intimate gathering and now it is 500 strong of mostly those who do not post.

I would suggest a rather different aproach, a bit harder to implement maybe. I'd bump the INSIDERS subscription price but discounting based on speed (although I don't like this new like/speed system). This way we could avoid the guys in the shadow and have more people contributing.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Is there any way of setting up an "invite only" sub-section within the inside?

We are discussing that now.

but now are complaining you are too popular with the subscriptions.

I'm not complaining -- I'm trying to maintain an environment of value and contribution. As the # of INSIDERS increases, the environment for open and willing contribution declines due to fear of theft and pilfering by those lacking integrity -- the whole reason this thread came to pass. There was a time I knew every INSIDERS and their history -- now, I do not. There are no outstanding issues going on, however, I do look at things from a statistical perspective.

I'd bump the INSIDERS subscription price but discounting based on speed (although I don't like this new like/speed system).

This is a great idea but the speed system right now is still kinda screwy and not as accurate as the last system.

 

[tafy]

One of the reason I am not as active as I use to be is because there are too many idiots posting garbage advice and stealing ideas

I would agree that a load of threads could have been started in the normal forum and not in INSIDERS. Ideas can be stolen by anyone, its up to you how much to share and the benefits and disadvantages from sharing.