Fortnite/Minecraft Thoughts

[CountMonteCristo]

I think the main problem is that as a kid or a young teen, there’s not much to do that gives you any sense of purpose.

Unless you have strict parents who make you do sports or music, your only obligation is school, which is not very exciting. You might have hobbies, but since you haven’t achieved much in life yet, you have no concept of how far you can take things.

Games make all this super easy for you. They lay out the rules very clearly: “If you want The Glowing Sword of FU (and you want other players to admire you for it) you’ll have to collect 500 magic mushroom caps and slay the 4 centaurs terrorizing the village every night.” So not only do you KNOW IT’S ACHIEVABLE, but you GET A ROADMAP of how to get there. (This is also where YouTube and twitch comes in where you can learn from experts, analyze their techniques, or just experience the game vicariously through their progress.)

But basically the game becomes something you understand and know you can get good at.

They’re designed to be easy to jump into and start progressing very fast. Sooner or later you'll understand the whole game and decide what you want to go after. You can start setting goals and know exactly what you need to do in order to reach them. Also, even if you have massive goals, there are milestones along the way with smaller rewards, so you’ll constantly feel like you’re progressing and that keeps you focused.

Now compare this to how complicated and vague things are in real life, especially for a kid. Throw in all the misinformation and stupid advice you get in school, conventional wisdom about talent, privilege and entrepreneurs starving while working on their impossible dreams... Why would you do ANYTHING in life when games give you so much more encouragement and hope? (and dopamine)

So as a kid, or even as an adult who hasn’t had much success in life, a game that offers a clear way to success and status, encourages fearless experimenting, and rewards minimal progress... beats real life any day of the week, no question.

-----

If I was a parent (I’m not) I’d try to find a way to apply what games do so well (encouraging experimentation, breaking down goals into actionable missions, measuring and rewarding progress, etc.) and essentially help my kids gamify their life so it can compete with the games.

Also it's probably not a bad idea to limit their passive dopamine sources (including video games) and give them a chance to be bored out of their little minds so that they can find out what else interests them.

 

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[Visionary96]

The gaming world in my honest opinion is very dangerous. If I didn't start reading self-help books (such as MJ's ones) I would still be playing CS:GO probably.

I spent 16 years of my life playing videogames and okay, kids have to have fun, but what most people don't get is that the creators of videogames have the only interest of engineering addiction triggers so every player becomes addicted to the game and starts spending money to achieve MORE and feel a sense of clout.

There was a time I was skipping school to play MW2 to rank up and gain virtual achievements. Back then in 2011 games weren't as dangerous as they are today. Triggers weren't a thing and the gamification model wasn't as strong as in today's videogames.

Nowadays the greater the triggers and the gamification model, the more success such companies get. At the cost of kids' brain and the dopaminergic system.

Just my 2 cents.

MW2 was absolutely wicked fun tho back in the day haha

 

[Sanj Modha]

I'm waiting for the moment when AR goes mainstream and we can run ads on Minecraft and Fortnite.

 

[RealDreams]

MW2 was absolutely wicked fun tho back in the day haha

I miss those times man, not gonna lie. I honestly don't know if I'm biased, but the gaming world was much greater back then. Now it looks like everything is just a means to making money.

Especially from the supply perspective. Companies don't give a shit about creating a good game. They care about getting you addicted and that's a simple reality.

In MW2 you couldn't even buy skins lol. There were only DLC's back then to get access to new maps, but that was it.

Now with money you can buy 239102 different things on game. Just think of GTA 5. That game is F*cking hilarious. People spend REAL money to buy a supercar in a virtual world.

Yeah, go on, spend most of your life buying virtual houses while you live in the basement of your parents lol

GTA was OG until GTA IV. I have the impression that once games started becoming fully online, something changed. And there's a simple reason for that. Gaming online makes you feel like you have to prove something to others, as already stated here before. "Hey look at this supercar" or "Look at my clothes".

GTA 5 is for sidewalkers. They realize they can't achieve shit in real life so they settle for a videogame.

 

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[Andy Black]

My time for games was Ikari Warriors, Commando, Elite, Doom, then eventually Call of Duty before I bailed. I do look back fondly on it. I do think things have changed somewhat, and I don't just mean graphics. As the article in the opening post says, Fortnite has almost as many users as Twitter. It's another form of social media platform.

 

[Sanj Modha]

My time for games was Ikari Warriors, Commando, Elite, Doom, then eventually Call of Duty before I bailed. I do look back fondly on it. I do think things have changed somewhat, and I don't just mean graphics. As the article in the opening post says, Fortnite has almost as many users as Twitter. It's another form of social media platform.

eSports is a multi-billion dollar business now.

 

[RealDreams]

eSports is a multi-billion dollar business now.

Where a lot of money flows, shit happens.

 

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[macandroid]

That makes sense.
Honestly, as a 20 years old kid, I'm super angry at gaming companies because I now know what their goals are and how sad everything actually is.

The gaming world is full of people who rationalize "It's not that bad" and stuff, but it can actually become bad if you're not careful because again, today's games easily form addictions if you have no other goals in real life.

All of a sudden, achieving a virtual goal might become the focus of your life. And that's extremely dangerous if you ask me. Especially if you don't want to die with 0 real life achievements. That's like being trapped into a box. You will struggle leaving once the habits are formed.

My parents used to severely restrict my videogaming habits when I was younger and I ended up resenting them back then, but I now thank them for that.

Honestly, I have no idea how to restrict access. All I know is that as a kid my parents called a technician to put a certain program that restricted access to 30 mins a day on my PC (and blocked all adult content) but somehow I managed to bypass that system by looking on YouTube. And I was like 10 years old.

The sad fact is that if kids are motivated enough, they'll find a way to bypass the boundaries.

If I had kids, I would teach them the value of achieving stuff in the real world, and create a positive association with trying and failing, as long as it's in the real world and not in a FPS videogame.

On the other hand, I would create a subtle operant conditioning that would make them naturally repulsed by videogames, and instead, keen to achieve goals in real life (simple reinforcement/punishment learning). I know this might seem evil, but I'm sure they would go much further in life compared to their peers who play videogames 24/7.

I really advise you to read a book on Pavlovian and operant conditioning, cause there lies almost everything about the power of associative stimuli and the formation of habits.

I'd love to read a book about this - would you be able to recommend one? It's rather confusing on amazon.

 

[Andy Black]

I'd love to read a book about this - would you be able to recommend one? It's rather confusing on amazon.

"Hooked."

 

[RealDreams]

I'd love to read a book about this - would you be able to recommend one? It's rather confusing on amazon.

If you know nothing about this stuff, start with this: (it refers mainly to social media, but trust me, there's a small difference between social media and modern videogames)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39RS3XbT2pU


After that, watch this introductory video about conditioning:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6LEcM0E0io


This is the foundation of how companies work to make users addicted.

 

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[amp0193]

I remember the day video games entered my life in a significant way.

It was late elementary school. We used to play baseball, kickball, or something else in the cul-de-sac every day after school with like 12 other kids.

Then the N64 came out. I remember asking my best friend if he wanted to play that instead of baseball that day. We did. Then we did it again every day that week.

Baseball never happened again. All the kids stayed inside from that point forwards.

And as far as I can tell, you can repeat that story in most neighborhoods around the country. The kids aren't outside anymore.

It's not just video games that caused that societal shift, but it's a part of it. Helicopter parenting is another force behind that, as well as on-demand media, and lots of other things.


Thankfully, I got involved with the high school band, and that took up so much of my time that video games eventually took a backseat to real life. But my friend got sucked into MMOs, and his social life was ruined.


My 5 year old daughter asked me last week if she could have her own tablet to play video games like her friend so-and-so. I said no, and told her why. She was ok with that (for now). Not sure how I will handle in Middle School as I balance giving kids independence like @Andy Black. It won't be a decision I make lightly though.

 

[Visionary96]

I miss those times man, not gonna lie. I honestly don't know if I'm biased, but the gaming world was much greater back then. Now it looks like everything is just a means to making money.

Especially from the supply perspective. Companies don't give a shit about creating a good game. They care about getting you addicted and that's a simple reality.

In MW2 you couldn't even buy skins lol. There were only DLC's back then to get access to new maps, but that was it.

Now with money you can buy 239102 different things on game. Just think of GTA 5. That game is F*cking hilarious. People spend REAL money to buy a supercar in a virtual world.

Yeah, go on, spend most of your life buying virtual houses while you live in the basement of your parents lol

GTA was OG until GTA IV. I have the impression that once games started becoming fully online, something changed. And there's a simple reason for that. Gaming online makes you feel like you have to prove something to others, as already stated here before. "Hey look at this supercar" or "Look at my clothes".

GTA 5 is for sidewalkers. They realize they can't achieve shit in real life so they settle for a videogame.

Playstation Home always made me laugh but I was hooked when I was about 13. Basically your new character spawns in this swish new apartment and you could buy furniture and clothes (WITH REAL MONEY) in the store. It was so bizarre yet so many people played it. I got engrossed for a few months and shit you not, I remember doing chores around my house just so my mum would transfer money so I could buy this virtual futon sofa for my swanky virtual pad hahah. I know, wow.

You could go to the movies, go bowling with virtual friends, do real-life activities but all in this virtual world. Pretty sure it shut down in like 2015 but it was almost a foreshadowing of what was to come.

 

[wouldntitbenice]

The article I linked to was explaining how Fortnite was like a Facebook for a younger demographic. I was thinking about the community and social aspect.

This is a fascinating concept. It's like a reimagining of Second Life. Gaming has it's negative side, but Minecraft and Fortnite Creative show how kids still want to be creative and express themselves.

The most interesting concept I've learned from the existence of virtual goods in games or people watching others play games is the whale. There's plenty of research that shows that a small minority of virtual goods buyers make up the majority of revenue. Developers know not to spend marketing dollars trying to entice a majority of their audience to buy virtual good, but rather seek out the whales that buy a disproportionate amount.

 

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[Andy Black]

What?!?



Kids! Come back inside and get good at Fortnite please!

 

[ApparentHorizon]

What?!?

View attachment 33543

Kids! Come back inside and get good at Fortnite please!

I want to see a video of you destroying your kids in fortnite, then turning to them saying, get good scrubs. Dropping the mouse and walking away. I'm dying picturing it.

 

[Andy Black]

I want to see a video of you destroying your kids in fortnite, then turning to them saying, get good scrubs. Dropping the mouse and walking away. I'm dying picturing it.

I’d love that, but it will never happen. I won’t devote the time to learn those damn controllers and the game.

What was cute a couple of weeks ago was coming in to see the 8 year old come up to a team mate and both of them start dancing and showing their moves instead of hunting down the opposition.

And yeah, I can’t believe we’ve spent money on dances (emotes I think they’re called).

 

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[Madame Peccato]

I want to see a video of you destroying your kids in fortnite, then turning to them saying, get good scrubs. Dropping the mouse and walking away. I'm dying picturing it.

These fiends are impossible to beat if you can't match their reaction time + building speed.

They build entire forts and ladders in 0.000005 seconds while I'm still figuring out if I have enough materials to create a modest box with 6 walls to not die instantly when I'm out in the open

I'm quite speedy when it comes to building and hotkeys as I have grown up playing RTS games, but I'm no match for the youngsters when it comes to Fortnite.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

I’d love that, but it will never happen. I won’t devote the time to learn those damn controllers and the game.

What was cute a couple of weeks ago was coming in to see the 8 year old come up to a team mate and both of them start dancing and showing their moves instead of hunting down the opposition.

And yeah, I can’t believe we’ve spent money so they can buy dances (emotes I think they’re called).

This reminds me. Look into loot boxes. They're basically hooking kids on gambling. Super dangerous stuff, and I can't believe it's still legal in most countries. Most f2p games have them.

These fiends are impossible to beat if you can't match their reaction time + building speed.

They build entire forts and ladders in 0.000005 seconds while I'm still figuring out if I have enough materials to create a modest box with 6 walls to not die instantly when I'm out in the open

I'm quite speedy when it comes to building and hotkeys as I have grown up playing RTS games, but I'm no match for the youngsters when it comes to Fortnite.

Love me some RTS. Command and Conquer was just released, remastered.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. As I get older, my worst fear is I become a crusty old fart that holds onto the status quo. Because that's what works and why should I change.

And I think I've figured out the mental switch...

Kids are natural explorers, with little regard for consequences. Which is why they're fantastic and little turds at the same time.

Consequences as adults are much more severe. Missed a house payment? Say goodbye to your credit. Got a flat tire? You're late for that meeting, which leads to a missed sale. Now you're living paycheck to paycheck.

What's the worst a kid will experience, realistically? A scraped knee at best?

Going back to Andy's comment, about devoting time to learn the controls. I've found myself doing this in the past few years and have corrected it. (I'm not calling you an old fart Andy ) In fact, you take this approach with your Google ads business.

My guess is, you're thinking, in order to learn the controls, you have to sit down and understand that X on the controller picks up an item in game. Before you actually go in and experience it yourself.

Whereas, a kid will just press X to see what would happen. They then build that association in their brain.

So simple, yet we lose that mindset as we grow older.

 

[Madame Peccato]

Lootboxes are disgusting and more countries should rule them out (much like Belgium did). They are literal slot-machines disguised as a game mechanic.

Look at this video. The lady defending EA is shivering and it's clear she knows that EA f*cked up. And yet, the court didn't rule against it, so we will be stuck with lootboxes in games for a while.

Spoiler

Imagine if you went to Udemy and spent 10$ for a chance of unlocking a random course. Oh and you can get duplicates, tough luck!

But don't worry, the best / most popular courses are grouped together in a different lootbox so that you have better chances to get one of these! Except the lootbox with these courses costs $50.

 

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[Andy Black]

This reminds me. Look into loot boxes. They're basically hooking kids on gambling. Super dangerous stuff, and I can't believe it's still legal in most countries. Most f2p games have them.



Love me some RTS. Command and Conquer was just released, remastered.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. As I get older, my worst fear is I become a crusty old fart that holds onto the status quo. Because that's what works and why should I change.

And I think I've figured out the mental switch...

Kids are natural explorers, with little regard for consequences. Which is why they're fantastic and little turds at the same time.

Consequences as adults are much more severe. Missed a house payment? Say goodbye to your credit. Got a flat tire? You're late for that meeting, which leads to a missed sale. Now you're living paycheck to paycheck.

What's the worst a kid will experience, realistically? A scraped knee at best?

Going back to Andy's comment, about devoting time to learn the controls. I've found myself doing this in the past few years and have corrected it. (I'm not calling you an old fart Andy ) In fact, you take this approach with your Google ads business.

My guess is, you're thinking, in order to learn the controls, you have to sit down and understand that X on the controller picks up an item in game. Before you actually go in and experience it yourself.

Whereas, a kid will just press X to see what would happen. They then build that association in their brain.

So simple, yet we lose that mindset as we grow older.

I’m 100% an old fart.

I’d be like “Can I use my mouse to look around and shoot, use wasd to move, and space to jump?”

“No. Use this.”

“Pass.”


Same as why I’d never get a Mac. I don’t want to waste time learning how to do things I can already do another way.

Now, if I couldn’t do it already, then sure, you learn how to do it one way.

 

[Timmy C]

I don't know about fortnight but world of Warcraft was my life as a kid. I took days of school to play it was insane.

Uhh pure pwnages YouTube videos those where the days!

View: https://youtu.be/SpC3lZdk2HM

 

[Kid]

I would take a light stance on it.
One of most important thing i heard is that if you would forbid
games to children you do them harm of alienating them from the group of peers
(same for tv btw).

What they will talk about if they won't relate to Minecraft or anything
that's hot right now?

Its fact that some kids do get addicted or at least have withdrawal symptoms
(some authorities don't agree if its possible to get addicted to games).

Question is if the games themselves are to be blamed.
I'm not pointing at parents. Rather at the possibility that some people might
get mix of genes making them susceptible to get an addiction.
They would probably get hooked on collecting baseball cards with same intensity.

If we would get some scary statistics like 20% of kids get worse grades and spend $1000s on games then it would be something very worrying.

 

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