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NOTABLE! former student of the foundation(dane maxwell) willing to answer questions

DennisDuty

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Your point is valid. Your reasoning is valid. SaaS doesn't fit you,it doesn't make you happy, you don't want to be involved with it. All that is understood.

The only thing I'm talking about is this:
the goal is to make money isnt it?
The GOAL isn't to make money.
The RESULT is making money.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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Lots of money chasing [HASHTAG]#FAIL[/HASHTAG] in this thread. Pay close attention Fastlaners. I want money. I need money. Money, money, money. Me. Me. Me. I. I. I. I don't this... I don't that. More money is here. Less money is there. Because this. Because that.
 
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GregH

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So the end goal is to create value ? And disregard money ?

I'm confused

Lets say I find out people really want pretzels after the local MLB game..

I set up a stand and provide the best pretzels money can buy .. I'm solving a problem
and solving a need in a great way

I start making money but looking at my day I start seeing that I'm working 10-12 hours a day baking and preparing and selling and cleaning and traveling but not making THAT much for my efforts.. I also just hate baking and hate the smell Of pretzels...

I decide, this isn't for me but I still want to be an entrepreneur so I go looking for other business models... Perhaps online pretzel sales? Perhaps selling t-shirts after the game? Maybe selling a
Golf cart ride back to your car?

What is really the difference?
Isn't it doing the same thing( finding a need and solving it) just in a different way and a way that you like and understand better ?

If I'm wrong please tell me
 

LightHouse

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I really appreciate your thoughts on this..

I do have some questions regarding what you just said however...

Whether you believe it or not, you are chasing money. You don't "find" success, you create it.

what exactly do you mean by chasing money? -- I do want to make money yes, and I realize SaaS has the potential to make a TON of money, I just didn't think it was a right fit for who I am...

E-Commerce I think might be a better option, but then again it might not... how can I know until I try it?... I don't understand whats wrong with trying different things until you see what fits?

You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful.-- no offense but how would you know?-- I spent 6 months talking about peoples problems with them via email and phone and I may or may not be trying to solve problems with what Im doing right now...

I do think that mindset is a big part of being an entrepreneur. So there is a valid reason why half of the course is about mindset.

I totally agree mindset is important- VERY important... stuff like thinking competition is TERRIBLE ( which it isnt) and having a scarcity mindset are often thoughts that will hold you back.. I don't have a problem with talking mindset-- I Loved MJs book and it was all about mindset

I however just didn't connect with what was taught in the foundation-- many people in there did connect and it helped them a great deal
I just couldn't gel with the teachings... I gelled very well with MJ's book however

I think you have some mind tuning to do though before you really become successful. And I truly hope you do.

oh no doubt, Im not on here trying to say I have it all figured out.. Im soooo far from it. I know I have a long long way to go, and Im always trying to read learn and grow... but just because I didn't connect with one set of teachings doesn't mean Im not open to new ideas

what resources would you suggest for mindset?

Dennis covered most of my follow up thoughts on this.

E-commerce, SaaS, Lead gen, etc etc etc are NOT business'. They are simply methods of solving problems.

You keep talking about e-commerce, you like physical products, etc. Your customers do not care about you, they care about what you can do for them. I don't see how you even want to get into e-commerce when you dont even have a problem to solve yet. It sounds like you just want to make a business and have it make you money. Sure you might see mild success, but have find grinding out every dollar.

I don't know anything about the foundation outside what i read in your thread and Dane's but I can see why you failed. And it isn't because of the program. You keep telling me you talked to 60 people, good for you. What about the other 299,999,940 people just in the US.

The goal of starting a business is to provide value or solve needs, not to make you rich. Money is a success metric of providing value by any means.

If you found in your phone calls that dentists have a hard time or spend too much time reordering consumable equipment for their practice, this is where you would determine that you need to have an ecommerce business to sell product subscriptions for consumables that the practice can order, set and forget.

The process does not go: I want to get into e-commerce, start a store, find some products that people maybe will buy, try to sell it because you have the means to.

The process and the things you have learned from the program here make sound sense, but in the end you need to be able to process them correctly. It make take you some time to really figure out what that means for you, but right now ou are starting at the a$$ end of the whole thing.


Maybe a great idea is to write down everything you know and learned through that program. write it down how you remember, then re-read it, you can tell your bias on it from failing out. Put it away for a while and then come back to it, you may start to read it differently and really extract your moneys worth from it.
 

LightHouse

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So the end goal is to create value ? And disregard money ?

I'm confused

Lets say I find out people really want pretzels after the local MLB game..

I set up a stand and provide the best pretzels money can buy .. I'm solving a problem
and solving a need in a great way

I start making money but looking at my day I start seeing that I'm working 10-12 hours a day baking and preparing and selling and cleaning and traveling but not making THAT much for my efforts.. I also just hate baking and hate the smell Of pretzels...

I decide, this isn't for me but I still want to be an entrepreneur so I go looking for other business models... Perhaps online pretzel sales? Perhaps selling t-shirts after the game? Maybe selling a
Golf cart ride back to your car?

What is really the difference?
Isn't it doing the same thing( finding a need and solving it) just in a different way and a way that you like and understand better ?

If I'm wrong please tell me
No you never finished the process. You start selling pretzels, its going really well. You find someone to bake the best pretzels for you at a great cost based on volume. Now that you have 10x the amount of products you hire other people to sell for you so you can reach a larger market either at the same event or at other events around town.

People really love your pretzels, adjust the pricing to reflect that. people will pay for quality products that they like, look at any major food brand.

Then we start looking at increasing the average order value. That way you are maximizing each interaction with each customer. Make funny pretzel related t-shirts and sell them at the stand. Sell beer at the stand, sell other merchandise, ups-ells for pretzels (i dont eat them so i dont know what goes with them).

Now people are getting awesome pretzels that the want, in a convenient place (the game), for a price that matches their perception of value, and you have increase the overall customer satisfaction. There you have created a successful business that now generates 10x what it did when you started and you are working less and paying employees.


BTW selling pretzels isnt really solving a need per-say, that is a very limited market with limited need. But I just went a long with your example.
 
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GregH

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Dennis covered most of my follow up thoughts on this.

E-commerce, SaaS, Lead gen, etc etc etc are NOT business'. They are simply methods of solving problems.

You keep talking about e-commerce, you like physical products, etc. Your customers do not care about you, they care about what you can do for them. I don't see how you even want to get into e-commerce when you dont even have a problem to solve yet. It sounds like you just want to make a business and have it make you money. Sure you might see mild success, but have find grinding out every dollar.

I don't know anything about the foundation outside what i read in your thread and Dane's but I can see why you failed. And it isn't because of the program. You keep telling me you talked to 60 people, good for you. What about the other 299,999,940 people just in the US.

The goal of starting a business is to provide value or solve needs, not to make you rich. Money is a success metric of providing value by any means.

If you found in your phone calls that dentists have a hard time or spend too much time reordering consumable equipment for their practice, this is where you would determine that you need to have an ecommerce business to sell product subscriptions for consumables that the practice can order, set and forget.

The process does not go: I want to get into e-commerce, start a store, find some products that people maybe will buy, try to sell it because you have the means to.

The process and the things you have learned from the program here make sound sense, but in the end you need to be able to process them correctly. It make take you some time to really figure out what that means for you, but right now ou are starting at the a$$ end of the whole thing.


Maybe a great idea is to write down everything you know and learned through that program. write it down how you remember, then re-read it, you can tell your bias on it from failing out. Put it away for a while and then come back to it, you may start to read it differently and really extract your moneys worth from it.
lighthouse, I think we can find middle ground here...


You keep telling me you talked to 60 people, good for you. What about the other 299,999,940 people just in the US.

they teach that to get ahold of potential people to interview that you need to reach out via email/ linkedin to set up calls... and once you've made calls you should be able to find the pain from those calls.. this is exactly what I did

Like I said in a previous post, I would have loved to talk to many more I just couldnt get ahold of them...maybe I could have thought of better ways but I was just following the proven method of contact


The process does not go: I want to get into e-commerce, start a store, find some products that people maybe will buy, try to sell it because you have the means to.....It make take you some time to really figure out what that means for you, but right now ou are starting at the a$$ end of the whole thing.

Well then if I am backwards for trying to START with E-commerce, would I also have been backwards for starting with SaaS?

They teach in the foundation to find a pain and solve it with SaaS-- this was a big problem for me because I didnt even really know what SaaS was, how it worked, what it COULD do, or problems that could be solved with it..

your point about solving problems with ANY means is valid...find the pain and solve it... plain and simple.. if you solve it well enough you are rewarded with money... money= how well you solved it and how many people you helped

so back to your example: if I chose dentists to "idea extract" on... I would make the phone call and try to ask them about their day and find the pain that retrofit the SaaS model... they could have said a dozen things such as we need uniforms cleaned BADLY or were always in need of entertainment in our waiting room, I would have ignored those problems and redirected the focus onto stuff I could solve with SaaS

so that would be backwards.... I could have solved those other problems and solved them using means ( saas, ecom, marketing, ect) and found success that way

so in essence you think that starting with SaaS, E-com, any means first.. BEFORE talking to a customer is wrong..

the process would look like

1. choose a market
2. talk to people in that market ( email, call, inperson visit, surveys, interviews, conferences)
3. find what a common and painful problem is
4. THEN find the MEANS to solve THAT PROBLEM^ in the best way... whether its SaaS, E-Com or something else
5. Work hard and make it the best possible solution to solve the problem in the best way
6 once you have solved the problem well enough and enough dentists use it... I will have created HUGE value and be rewarded with money

right?
 

DennisDuty

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Dane was teaching SaaS because that's what he knows and is good at.
It'd be impossible to outline a step by step guide to both SaaS, ecom, manufacturing, employee temping, legal aid, etc. He's found success with SaaS and teaches other people to keep searching until they find a solution you can solve with SaaS.

I do think it's backwards to work like this. EVERY TIME I've had a solution in mind to begin with it failed. I was trying to solve problems that didn't exist. I've ALWAYS had to pivot and do something else to become profitable.

1. choose a market
2. talk to people in that market ( email, call, inperson visit, surveys, interviews, conferences)
3. find what a common and painful problem is
4. THEN find the MEANS to solve THAT PROBLEM^ in the best way... whether its SaaS, E-Com or something else
5. Work hard and make it the best possible solution to solve the problem in the best way
6 once you have solved the problem well enough and enough dentists use it... I will have created HUGE value and be rewarded with money

right?
I think that's exactly what you should do.

You won't know how to provide the solution.. but once you learn the pain... you start figuring out how to solve it.
It might mean learning coding, it might mean getting mentorship from an importer/exporter, it might mean learning how to bake pretzels or manufacture toothbrushes. The solution won't come easy for you.. but through your dedication to the process of solving it you will become an expert on it.
 

LightHouse

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the process would look like

1. choose a market
2. talk to people in that market ( email, call, inperson visit, surveys, interviews, conferences)
3. find what a common and painful problem is
4. THEN find the MEANS to solve THAT PROBLEM^ in the best way... whether its SaaS, E-Com or something else
5. Work hard and make it the best possible solution to solve the problem in the best way
6 once you have solved the problem well enough and enough dentists use it... I will have created HUGE value and be rewarded with money

right?
YES, This is the essence of business and entrepreneurship right here, solve problems and be valuable.

Dane focuses on SaaS solutions because they are scale-able and require less work. MJ advocated internet based business' for this same reason. Everything I am mentioning is reflected in MJ's books, its nothing new and revolutionary. If you were comfortable with software development, the program ma have worked better for you. But the fact is you probably got into the program not because you were into software dev and wanted to find a way to be more successful with it through solving problems. You more than likely saw, create a business that makes you a lot of money with not a lot of work.

Dane may or may not pitch it that way, I imagine he does, because in all honestly it sells. The principles he teaches are solid, the method of delivery just did not align with your skillsets.
 
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GregH

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YES, This is the essence of business and entrepreneurship right here, solve problems and be valuable.

Dane focuses on SaaS solutions because they are scale-able and require less work. MJ advocated internet based business' for this same reason. Everything I am mentioning is reflected in MJ's books, its nothing new and revolutionary. If you were comfortable with software development, the program ma have worked better for you. But the fact is you probably got into the program not because you were into software dev and wanted to find a way to be more successful with it through solving problems. You more than likely saw, create a business that makes you a lot of money with not a lot of work.

Dane may or may not pitch it that way, I imagine he does, because in all honestly it sells. The principles he teaches are solid, the method of delivery just did not align with your skillsets.
okay cool Im glad were on the same plane

-- perhaps you are right in me choosing the foundation for it being easy and passive income--

but I do understand the basics of the business and entrepreneurism and did so before joining the foundation-- I am a big fan of Noah Kagan and App Sumo and also I re-read MJs book twice and really liked it.

I think what also sold me onto the foundation was that it was billed as "no software experience required" and also " have others pay for the development cost"

when I got into the meat and potatoes I really think not knowing software really hurt me and I didn't think it was possible to have others pay for development

so I was doing the process of talking to people about their pain but I was ignoring anything that wasnt SaaS related and when they talked to be about solving their problem with software my eyes glassed over and had no idea what was going on

in the future when someone says their biggest pain is " we need a brand new system for our POS sales system linked up with the main server at HQ in Florida"-- my next question might be " so whats your 2nd biggest pain?"

thanks for the advice btw :)
 

D. Maxwell

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Greg, hey brother. I've been trying to get to that video response but am seriously behind right now.

Hopefully by this week Wednesday.

I want to show you what we have planned for next year because of your feedback.

One thing that saddened me a bit, was your skepticism around limiting beliefs.

Here is one of the students who fully embraced limiting beliefs.

Video ----> http://zannee.wistia.com/medias/bqj3dlmxw0

There is no hype or fluff in any of that video. Just a real dude who embraced what we taught fully.

And now he's quitting his job at Tesla motors.

Note: This video is unreleased and private for a few more days. Please don't share it around the net. Yet.
 

TopChef

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Hypothetical question...

If someone reads my book but can't sell, can't write, and can't communicate and yet this reader "takes action" for a few weeks, and doesn't get results, does that make my book a scam? Does that make me any less of an instructor?




Impressive. Responsive. No fight. No resistance. This is how you run a business and stand behind it. (BTW, I doubt Kiyosaki would be handing out refunds after his $10K seminars.)

MJ. Im not sure its that simple.

What I learned from reading gregh's posts (and I don't want to put words in his mouth here) is that the Foundations pitch is that anyone can start their own SaaS business. No experience? No money? No ideas? The Foundation will help you overcome this.

From watching the intro video on Do you know the most important word in business? | The Foundation this appears to be their pitch.

Dane's most important word is predictability and he touts a predictable process as key to overcoming all sorts of barriers.

Lets look at some quotes from the video on what the Foundation will help you overcome.
1) Why knowing how to write code actually hurts your business.
2) Why your better off starting a business without an idea.
3) How you can start a business without raising money, but still have revenue to pay a developer without sacrificing equity.

So the main USP of the program seems to be that you will be privy to seeing a lot of the process that goes into creating a SaaS business.



After attending the course it seemed that gregh concluded that the bulk of the Foundation was more fixing your mindset and motivating you. That is a big difference!

Now I've never taken the course myself and I cannot attest to how accurate that statement is, but this is what I got from gregh's post here that raised flags with me.

An overall cultish atmosphere that discouraged disagreement or raising questions.

Dane recruited tutors or teachers to give 1 on 1 sessions for help, and these teachers often didn't build SaaS of their own.

Although Dane offered 1 on 1 mentoring, much of that was on limiting beliefs and such.

One of the major success stories is Sam Ovens who is featured prominently in the intro video and is the first Facebook comment you see on the Foundations website. It appears as though he is operating an MLM type consulting business that may be related to the Foundation.

Incorporating "salesy" marketing tactics like saying that you have to apply to get in.

There was not enough useful info on the actual process of starting an SaaS business. The most useful part was in the process of interviewing businesses and extracting info from them.

There are 3 or 4 members here who have taken the course and they seem to agree with gregh's assessment.



Truthfully, I still don't know what to make of the Foundation. Having been taken by Guru's in the past I am particularly cautious when I see redflags. It seems like to me that the people who would benefit the most from the course are tech guys who are in slow lane jobs who need extra help with motivation and establishing the proper mindset. But this course is specifically targeted to people who have no experience at all.


There seems to be some controversy with gregh asking for a refund. I think after reading TMF, and also Biophases and Vigilantes thread here, that are worth 4k easy I have a better understanding of what to expect from a course. If you attend a course or buy an info product and expect a refund because said product didn't make you money, than I think that is horrible. But if you buy a product that heavily promotes teaching a process and the course fails at it, then I think there is nothing wrong with asking for a refund.


Gregh speed+ to you. I think it takes a lot to put your failures up on the big screen for others to see here. I know that I have benefited from reading it and others have to, including Dane Maxwell himself.

Dane Maxwell speed+ to you. I really appreciate you doing the AMA here and I have learned a lot from reading it. Please do not think I am against the Foundation. I honestly don't know what to think of it. I think it takes a lot of balls to put your business on an open forum here and hear peoples honest opinions on it. I appreciate you hanging in there and responding like a human being would.

After reading your posts here I definitely don't think you are trying to swindle anybody. I think you are genuinely interested in helping people and I think you have a lot to share. I don't know where the Foundation is now, but I think that maybe some of the discontent from former students may have been because the marketing content and the actual course work was not harmonized yet.
 

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pisco

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Hello guys,

Thx for sharing your experience.

From the people who succeded, which market did they pick? Is there a common pattern?

Thx in advance for your reply!
 

Tank

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@theag

Having labeled yourself as an "a**hole," and possibly "The Adjutant General" (I'm guessing this is what theag means) for this forum, it must be a heavy burden on you to live down to these roles. I sense a tremendous pain in the sarcasm of your posts and the way you lash out punishment to someone who has not harmed you in any way.

I care about you, theag.

I want you to live well, prosper, and find happiness while adding value to others lives.

I just want you to know I'm here for you and you can PM me to discuss the roots of your need for self-deprecation.

Here's a couple of helpful quotes from Dr. Albert Einstein:

"In order to be a perfect member of a flock of sheep, one has to be, first and foremost, a sheep."

"The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self."

Wishing you all the best,
Tank
 

exige

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I know MJ said this thread is full of #FAIL, and it is. But, I also wanted to point out that I think this thread is also full of awesome, for this reason: look at all of these forum members who won't give up on you GregH! Even Dane himself, offering you a refund but still here trying to help you.

What I see is a lot of "I can't". You gotta change your mindset to "how can I". Do whatever it takes. Read SPIN Selling. IMHO, I wouldn't walk away from SaaS if I were you. Instead, I'd keep at the networking and idea extraction/needs analysis until you find something that fits the TMF model and filter it through CENTS. Find the need and the opportunity first.

Do it just to prove to yourself that you can do it.

But, I know you won't. I know what your answer will be "but I CAN'T. I called 60 people in 6 months, I can't do it." What if you called 60 people a day?

GregH said:
but I do understand the basics of the business and entrepreneurism and did so before joining the foundation--
You say this, but everything you are writing says that you don't.

GregH said:
I think what also sold me onto the foundation was that it was billed as "no software experience required" and also " have others pay for the development cost"

when I got into the meat and potatoes I really think not knowing software really hurt me and I didn't think it was possible to have others pay for development
Who cares if you know software or not? That's just one vehicle of delivering a solution. You didn't get far enough to have to worry about that yet.

So, you stopped because you didn't think it was possible, meanwhile others were successfully getting their dev costs covered through pre-sells. See, that is your mind stopping you, not reality. ;-)

You say you "like" e-commerce? Why don't you start contacting e-commerce people, talk to them about their business processes and see what their pains are?
 
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MJ DeMarco

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My comments are not an endorsement for the Foundation or a black-eye against it. This thread isn't full of FAIL, but I find Greg's comments are, and a sneak peak into the inner workings of his operating system.

After reading GregH's posts I believe wholeheartedly that his failure(s) have nothing do with the Foundation (nor the last 20 entrepreneur books he's read) but what's grinding inside his head. As much as many don't want to believe, mindset is everything. Failures on the inside will lead to failures on the outside.

That said, this forum is about creating change that creates success. I hope Greg overcomes the challenges as well as anyone else experiencing the same.
 

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TC

You called me out at lunch. So, here you go. I have many reservations about Dane and his deal particularly, substance verses sales (hype). Moreover I'm interested that a program that was openly scoffed at here a year ago has now received an endorsement in an open invitation to pitch his deal.

Normally, when I'm uncertain about what I think I'm witnessing I stay quiet and watch hoping to learn more. However, you're right. it's not fair of me to let you stand out here alone.

You are not alone.

jon

MJ. Im not sure its that simple.

What I learned from reading gregh's posts (and I don't want to put words in his mouth here) is that the Foundations pitch is that anyone can start their own SaaS business. No experience? No money? No ideas? The Foundation will help you overcome this.

From watching the intro video on Do you know the most important word in business? | The Foundation this appears to be their pitch.

Dane's most important word is predictability and he touts a predictable process as key to overcoming all sorts of barriers.

Lets look at some quotes from the video on what the Foundation will help you overcome.
1) Why knowing how to write code actually hurts your business.
2) Why your better off starting a business without an idea.
3) How you can start a business without raising money, but still have revenue to pay a developer without sacrificing equity.

So the main USP of the program seems to be that you will be privy to seeing a lot of the process that goes into creating a SaaS business.



After attending the course it seemed that gregh concluded that the bulk of the Foundation was more fixing your mindset and motivating you. That is a big difference!

Now I've never taken the course myself and I cannot attest to how accurate that statement is, but this is what I got from gregh's post here that raised flags with me.

An overall cultish atmosphere that discouraged disagreement or raising questions.

Dane recruited tutors or teachers to give 1 on 1 sessions for help, and these teachers often didn't build SaaS of their own.

Although Dane offered 1 on 1 mentoring, much of that was on limiting beliefs and such.

One of the major success stories is Sam Ovens who is featured prominently in the intro video and is the first Facebook comment you see on the Foundations website. It appears as though he is operating an MLM type consulting business that may be related to the Foundation.

Incorporating "salesy" marketing tactics like saying that you have to apply to get in.

There was not enough useful info on the actual process of starting an SaaS business. The most useful part was in the process of interviewing businesses and extracting info from them.

There are 3 or 4 members here who have taken the course and they seem to agree with gregh's assessment.



Truthfully, I still don't know what to make of the Foundation. Having been taken by Guru's in the past I am particularly cautious when I see redflags. It seems like to me that the people who would benefit the most from the course are tech guys who are in slow lane jobs who need extra help with motivation and establishing the proper mindset. But this course is specifically targeted to people who have no experience at all.


There seems to be some controversy with gregh asking for a refund. I think after reading TMF, and also Biophases and Vigilantes thread here, that are worth 4k easy I have a better understanding of what to expect from a course. If you attend a course or buy an info product and expect a refund because said product didn't make you money, than I think that is horrible. But if you buy a product that heavily promotes teaching a process and the course fails at it, then I think there is nothing wrong with asking for a refund.


Gregh speed+ to you. I think it takes a lot to put your failures up on the big screen for others to see here. I know that I have benefited from reading it and others have to, including Dane Maxwell himself.

Dane Maxwell speed+ to you. I really appreciate you doing the AMA here and I have learned a lot from reading it. Please do not think I am against the Foundation. I honestly don't know what to think of it. I think it takes a lot of balls to put your business on an open forum here and hear peoples honest opinions on it. I appreciate you hanging in there and responding like a human being would.

After reading your posts here I definitely don't think you are trying to swindle anybody. I think you are genuinely interested in helping people and I think you have a lot to share. I don't know where the Foundation is now, but I think that maybe some of the discontent from former students may have been because the marketing content and the actual course work was not harmonized yet.
 

Vigilante

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You called me out at lunch. So, here you go. I have many reservations about Dane and his deal particularly, substance verses sales (hype). Moreover I'm interested that a program that was openly scoffed at here a year ago has now received an endorsement in an open invitation to pitch his deal.

Normally, when I'm uncertain about what I think I'm witnessing I stay quiet and watch hoping to learn more. However, you're right. it's not fair of me to let you stand out here alone.

You are not alone.

jon
In defense of MJ's position on this (not that I am his spokesperson --- I'm not ---but I have had a limited side bar with him on this topic), he is not pro nor con. He is not endorsing the platform. He's on the sidelines.

I can say that I personally was skeptical, but have been impressed with the answers. I don't endorse the program, but I am now convinced there's not a snake oil salesman behind it the way we generally tar and feather information brokers.

You are not reading that MJ or his forum have given an open endorsement to the Foundation. However, I do think the dialogue has been excellent, primarily because of Dane's willingness to engage in an open dialogue.

If you look at the statistics he posted, they're not great. But.. he didn't try and sugar coat the results, although the metrics are getting stronger.

I am not sure what the right success statistics are for any program like that. However, I have seen a relatively transparent value proposition put forth, with some pretty clear result statistics. At a minimum, anyone investigating the program can walk into it with their eyes wide open.

So, I don't blame you Jon or anyone that is on the fence. I thought that TopChef's post was excellent. You and I see eye to eye on 99.9% of the world, this topic likely included. I am not on the bandwagon, and certainly not about to endorse his program. However, I do applaud MJ for bringing this AMA in here... as before he did it I would have told him not to.

I learned some things.
 

jon.a

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You know that I respect your option. I will go back to observing. Having not much more than a passing interest in the foundation there's really nothing else for me to do. The community has everyone's back and all is good.

In defense of MJ's position on this (not that I am his spokesperson --- I'm not ---but I have had a limited side bar with him on this topic), he is not pro nor con. He is not endorsing the platform. He's on the sidelines.

I can say that I personally was skeptical, but have been impressed with the answers. I don't endorse the program, but I am now convinced there's not a snake oil salesman behind it the way we generally tar and feather information brokers.

You are not reading that MJ or his forum have given an open endorsement to the Foundation. However, I do think the dialogue has been excellent, primarily because of Dane's willingness to engage in an open dialogue.

If you look at the statistics he posted, they're not great. But.. he didn't try and sugar coat the results, although the metrics are getting stronger.

I am not sure what the right success statistics are for any program like that. However, I have seen a relatively transparent value proposition put forth, with some pretty clear result statistics. At a minimum, anyone investigating the program can walk into it with their eyes wide open.

So, I don't blame you Jon or anyone that is on the fence. You and I see eye to eye on 99.9% of the world, this topic likely included. I am not on the bandwagon, and certainly not about to endorse his program. However, I do applaud MJ for bringing this AMA in here... as before he did it I would have told him not to.

I learned some things.
 

TopChef

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Jon. I appreciate you voicing your opinion. But I did not intend to coax a response from you here on this forum. I think everyone has stated their opinion and that is good enough for me because people here can make up their own minds. What I said in the above post is pretty much what I believe.

I think anyone of reasonable intelligence can understand that neither MJ nor the forum itself endorses anybody. TFF is just a platform where we can discuss ideas and help each other out. The best forum of its kind in the world I might add. I appreciate anyone who is willing to expose themselves to the forum and share knowledge.
 

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GregH

GregH

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hello all

I just wanted to thank all who were kind enough to share advice with me on this thread...

Ive been thinking it over and what really struck me as good advice was that during my time in the foundation looking for the pain/problem to solve... I had it backwards

I had it in my mind that I had to find problems that I thought could be solved with SaaS...( and I struggled with this as I had no idea one way or the other if the pain I was hearing was solvable or not... theres a good chance I ignored a lot of good problems that needed fixing"

As pointed out this was backwards and SaaS is only a method for solving pain....

Its true-- I should have went into a market and just asked questions and see where they took me and not been so wrapped up in SaaS that it blinded me to other problems

I do think that if people are dead set ( as I was) on SaaS then perhaps filtering out non SaaS problems is the best method ( but I would think to do this you would need to have some understanding of software.. i don't know)

to those who said that I wasn't hustling hard enough or didn't put in enough work...

listen I know where you're coming from.. im just some guy who could have done a lot more! I could have attended conferences, I could have started a blog, I could have sent out mailers, started an online survery, ANYTHING... and sure 60 calls to you guys doesnt sound like much but to me.. it was a A LOT...

When you are in a framework or a system that you paid $4,000 its very very hard to think outside the box.... you want to only do what the course suggests and do it the best way you can and you almost put creative thinking on the back burner and put your nose to the grindstone and grunt work away...work without thinking large picture...

I listened to the audio, I took the personality test, I read the pdfs, I read the required reading, I hand copied old copy ads, I used the suggested email software and the email scripts, I tried to use the call scripts, I made the cold calls, I sent the emails, I hired the VA, I visited places in person... and its hard to hear from you guys that I wasn't working hard when I thought I did everything right and found little to no success....

the one thing where its hard backing down from is the limiting beliefs reversals that dane and the foundation enjoy so much-- again.. dane helped A LOT of people with those limiting beliefs... I just couldnt get on board with it... it didnt feel right and made me tune out... did this sabotage me? maybe..... but in my heart I dont think so

I just wanted to get this off my chest because earlier today and last night I was kinda pissed at people on here for telling me I wasn't working hard or I had a shitty mindset.... I resented it because I know about adding value and thats how you make money... I just felt like you guys didn't really understand where I was coming from... but with that said-- you all have nothing to gain or lose by telling what you think... if I gave up today and became a high school math teacher, none of your lives would be affected... I understand you're just trying to give the best advice possible because you've been there and you want to see others succeed so I thank you all for your advice and kind words... again thank you!

as for me....Im not going anywhere.. Ill still be reading a bunch on here and keeping my mind open and hopefully adding the discussion

-Greg
 

theBiz

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Sounds to me like the OP is pretty cool about this whole thing, and not mad or anything, just thought it would go further, truly not bad for Dane and not good for him either... i've read worse reviews on yelp for the Sizzler (for a valid reason).

I took a ton of action... I made about 50-60 calls.. sent 2000 emails using the scripts they gave me--
did in person visits -- and tried to"extract" many problems in a business that were simple and easy to
solve and no other solution existed
But cold calling isnt just cold calling. Go to a sales office, 2 guys out of 15 are each making 25% of the sales accounting for 50% and the rest are struggling, and most get fired. So congrats on the hard work but this takes time to learn, maybe some are naturals but if you cold called me and i was working at my business... if you're skipping words or sounding nervous im probably not going to take you serious (not saying you were)


Did you know that each programmer has an individual coding style? This means that you have to tell them to
write a clean code and use a lot of ("//" comment lines) so the next programmer who will code, will clearly
understand what on earth was coded there (I bet most of you didn't know this).
I mean you could tell them to provide documentation on all work.. not that big of a deal really.
I would agree if there's one place your code needs to be done correctly its here, everyday your income is depending on one application that if you have 1,000 people paying 30/m and it crashes, you could lose all paying customers. This is the point though, try, screw it up, lose everything, and learn why you were an idiot and naive enough to believe it would be this "easy". Next time it will FORCE you to just figure it out. How? Maybe i would find YOU on this forum and hire you as an architect to oversee the development of my project because i know nothing about it and apparently you do, maybe id get 5 of YOU guys to oversee it, even better, how could i lose then? I never would of thought like that without failing first right? I have failed, dail in fact because i try 100 things, and in order now to not fail my mind tells me set up as many smart safeguards as possible IN ANYTHING I DO NOW... all facets in life, which truly is an amazing thing to learn.


I believe this whole Zend thing is basically him saying "shut up and figure it out". Even when paying for his service you cant expect another person to make you successful. Gatherings like this you pay for should really just be an eye opener not some cult where you all go out there and make millions while Dane is giving you 50 answers per day. Ofcoarse he doesnt know all of them, you were the one that just cold called that landscaper, he didnt hear the pause in that guys voice, he couldent evaluate why he didnt buy, only you can.

I think MJ said something about his book and it really is the same, there are probably so many bad reviews because some expected a guide to success... come on, we're all smarter than that, any insight to point us in the right direction is all someone can do. There never was, and never will be a magic bullet to any sort of success, whether its financial, love, friendships, happiness... nope that all involves you getting out of your comfort zone, failing, and continuously failing until you just smarten up and figure it out on your own, some faster than others, and thats about it. By the way i was not being argumentative here, just my opinion, everyone seems to have valid points to this is just my outlook on the whole thing.
 

ryan_marsh

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I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.

The mentors, while great people had terribly little experience. Let me give you an example, there's a guy in my city that sold his last software company for $200 million. I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.

A sinister problem with the Foundation is he has you rely on indian offshoring for development. This is a huge gamble and will wind up costing those Foundationers that do build a company 3 times over. Source: I've been managing and developing software for the past 15 years and I have done more off shore projects than I can count. I've never even heard of, much less seen, a successful offshoring effort with India. I can explain that later if someone is interested.

The truth behind the Foundation is that Andy Drish is a fantastic marketer. I would partner with that guy in a heart beat. Dane though? Total amateur.
 

LightHouse

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I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.

The mentors, while great people had terribly little experience. Let me give you an example, there's a guy in my city that sold his last software company for $200 million. I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.

A sinister problem with the Foundation is he has you rely on indian offshoring for development. This is a huge gamble and will wind up costing those Foundationers that do build a company 3 times over. Source: I've been managing and developing software for the past 15 years and I have done more off shore projects than I can count. I've never even heard of, much less seen, a successful offshoring effort with India. I can explain that later if someone is interested.

The truth behind the Foundation is that Andy Drish is a fantastic marketer. I would partner with that guy in a heart beat. Dane though? Total amateur.
If you have the time, you should certainly start a separate thread! That way the questions/answers can be separated.
 

Danny G

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Couple questions:

1) So what have you thought from this guy you mentioned about

I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.
2) When did you build your SaaS companies? After the foundation? And also - have you done any marketing or you rely on core self-centered products that no need almost no marketing?
 

JEdwards

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I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.

The mentors, while great people had terribly little experience. Let me give you an example, there's a guy in my city that sold his last software company for $200 million. I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.

A sinister problem with the Foundation is he has you rely on indian offshoring for development. This is a huge gamble and will wind up costing those Foundationers that do build a company 3 times over. Source: I've been managing and developing software for the past 15 years and I have done more off shore projects than I can count. I've never even heard of, much less seen, a successful offshoring effort with India. I can explain that later if someone is interested.

The truth behind the Foundation is that Andy Drish is a fantastic marketer. I would partner with that guy in a heart beat. Dane though? Total amateur.
Your comparing apples to oranges. I read a book, so it is much more worth while than a seminar. I met with a guy that sold his biz for 200 million he liked my idea that blows away a meeting I paid money for. Etc etc.

The fact that you have been in the "biz" 15 years and know everything there is to know has tainted your view and opinion. Take a new guy who knows zero who learns something, anything in the right direction of opening their own biz and the foundation could be worth it for them.

Did you ask for and receive a refund? Or is that what this post is for?
 

deeyaree

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Nov 10, 2013
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Questions about the foundation

Hi

I was "accepted" in the next session in the foundation. I'm on the fence about it and would love to hear some of your direct experience. Can I email you directly?

LMK

I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.
 

gummybear

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Nov 19, 2013
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I'm not a member of the Foundation but I signed up for their blog and I was bombarded by a gazillion emails that I had to quickly unsub after a few days.

The biggest red flag about this program is 1. the cost, and 2. the marketing. Why aren't these founders using their rather impressive marketing skills to market their own software companies and make a living off of those instead?

I wouldn't go so far to say that it's a scam or anything. Still, if you're making bank from something, why then would you dedicate all your efforts to teach future competitors? I feel that this sole reason is why reliable small business knowledge is hard to come by--successful people don't want others to know their secrets.

My take on this is that it's not as easy or profitable as it sounds. Here's why: 1. the big profitable industries already have professional software so you're only filling in the gaps making small money, and 2. the money is in the execution, not the knowledge.

It's easy to teach because it doesn't matter what happens to you, they already have your money. Their success rate is 100%, your success rate is advertised to be less than 10% (that 10% includes people who only make $1, so the real amount that can make a living off of SaaS is probably lower). This is why such huge marketing is needed. The market for B2B that need software solutions is limited. The market for "being your own boss" is virtually everyone.
 

truthy

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For some interesting parallels to comments about The Foundation, I suggest reading the story in this month's Vanity Fair magazine about Donald Trump's defunct real estate university program.
 

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