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One thing that saddened me a bit, was your skepticism around limiting beliefs.
Here is one of the students who fully embraced limiting beliefs.
Video ----> http://zannee.wistia.com/medias/bqj3dlmxw0
There is no hype or fluff in any of that video. Just a real dude who embraced what we taught fully.
And now he's quitting his job at Tesla motors.
Note: This video is unreleased and private for a few more days. Please don't share it around the net. Yet.
Lets be clear here,
This guy is an exception rather than an ordinary student - he was the 1 in 10 that came out with a business.
Is it the removal of limiting beliefs that made him succeeded? Or is it the fact that he has major experience in software, as he was a software developer? Or could it be because he had connections that allowed him to partner up with someone instead of spending 70k he didn't have on the development?
I would have no problem with what Dane is doing if it wasn't marketed directly towards beginners (read title: The Foundation). He sound at least make it clear that it is not as easy as he makes it sounds. He should make it clear that for every 9 out of 10 people reading his long, promising sales letter, would not come out with a business. And that those who are lucky enough to come out with a business are likely to go bust within the next 12 months as that is the nature of business.
The most ethical thing he could do is target more intermediate entrepreneurs instead of clueless kids, because only those people are really gonna get their money's worth - but he would never do that as there will be significantly less money in it for him.
I am a former student the second class of the foundation by dane maxwell--
I totally failed hard..
anyway Im willing to answer any questions you all might have..
Let's dissect the info a bit better, as I was a student of TheFoundation v2 too:
I agree with GregH in most parts and as we all know that 1000 people come in, few stick till the end and maybe 1 succeeds (in every training). But who succeeds most of the time? The one who provides the service/training/ etc, right? (the one who sells not the one who buys)
This program generated half of million $ in sales last year. From all the students, who generated at least $100k? (I'll let others who participated, answer this).
About technology/programming/hiring a programmer and so on:
By profession, I am a software engineer and I know the ins/outs of how to code. One of the "solution" for hiring a coder, that they gave, was to go to Odesk/Elance/Guru and post a job using a "text template" asking for the best coder. And then start filtering and decide on one programmer.
Now I'm telling you this: If you DON'T know how to code, or you don't know somebody (a programmer) who can assist you in monitoring the ones you're hiring, YOU ARE TAKING A TREMENDOUS RISK.
And after all this, there is the "testing" part. Some might underestimate it, but THIS is a continuous process for the SAAS. How come? Only when you start using the software you can actually detect bugs: overloads, memory crash, variable allocation and so on. At this point you kind of depend on your programmer (and the speed of execution they have).
Did you know that each programmer has an individual coding style? This means that you have to tell them to write a clean code and use a lot of ("//" comment lines) so the next programmer who will code, will clearly understand what on earth was coded there (I bet most of you didn't know this).
Back to TheFoundation, one of Dane's SAAS was "pipeline" something. Well rest assured that he didn't go blind in this market. He had family members who were in this niche for a decade and already knew the ins and outs.
Of course Dane was asking "how do you feel about it" and doing that "yoga/zen" thing because there's NO WAY to give a precise answer to a question, in a market you have NO IDEA about.
As you probably saw the new AMA from him, well I believe that's most likely because ( I can bet on this) he's going to launch the new Foundation soon. My inbox is bleeding with this kind of emails. They are pushing hard to launch.
The only thing that I really found valuable and interesting was the way that HE SOLD to us. The pre-sale funnel, email squeeze page, designs, interviews with big names. That's what has to be learned.
Yes MJ, you were right in the first place. Boy oh boy, this Internet is filled with lots of kids and sharks.
Again, great points. There is some really effective marketing involved no doubt. My suggestion to people is to learn all you can from all the Foundation videos/website/etc.. and devour all the info from successful past students like Geordie Wardman, Josh Isaak, Carl Mattiola, etc.. and then work your own system. I'm trying that but I'll be honest, it's hard. The simple action of validation can be enough to drive most people away.
This was a fascinating read.
Agree that the OP came off pretty well: worked hard by his own standards, invested time and money of his own. Dane impressed me with his refund offer, although naturally he gets "good press" for doing so, and honestly I think the refund is owed if the purchaser wants it. (promises were grander than could be delivered in that time)
Where the OP could have done better in my humble opinion:
I was cringing so much as he described the 6 months he spent (sorry "wasted" according to him) before he realized that he was "nowhere near" his goal - that he didn't know enough.
Good. I agree, it takes about 6 months to realize I'm a total idiot that has only just realized the magnitude of his ignorance.
But then you gave up??? MAAAAAAN wtf?
Put another way, you spent six months learning that you were a complete idiot.. that you knew nothing.. and then were just like.. "OK."
"On to the next thing where I'll probably be an idiot in that too." (Nothing personal I just mean we're all idiots when we start something brand-new to us)
Those 6 months have to be invested to get to ground zero. But now you see WHAT needs to be learned... even if it's a MASSIVE undertaking.. that's the whole thing about business, and success, it always SEEMS insurmountable, you have to know that it only SEEMS that way.
6 months - learning the absolute basics, the terminology, "learning what you need to learn", coming up with ideas
6 more months - refining ideas, starting to learn the specific things you'll need, even though you're a novice
6 more months - your business idea seems valid after many refinements. You're now at an intermediate level of knowledge in the field
6 more months - Serious progress has been made. You've outsourced a few major tasks; because of the last 18 months, you're somewhat qualified to evaluate employees, and even one or two hiring mistakes doesn't set you back, because now you see them as learning experiences.
6 more months - with the help of the best employees, you learn faster and faster. Product moves to operational stages and starts testing
6 more months - product iterates to a professional level of quality.You're no programmer now, but you're quite an experienced manager of programmers. You're confident that you could manage another team and do it even better next time
6 more months - product cashflow is respectable. It's not what you originally set out to hit (it's about half that) BUT!! Now you have a founder's education in this field
So far, elapsed time is 3.5 years, and you have a moderately-profitable software product
But more importantly, you've just finished your basic"free education" as a software enterprise founder and CEO
Now everything is accelerated. Let's try again on our SECOND software product.
6 months - researching a far larger, more important, more difficult need for your next software product and laying out a plan
6 months - getting the rough design made, finding first customers
6 months - improving everything with feedback and get to a nice, stable profitable software product
6 months - grow grow grow, and also package with previous software product if possible
Now, 5.5 years have gone by and you have 2 profitable software products along with the know-how to quickly brainstorm, plan, design, create, market, and grow your software sales.
Let's give it a few more steps:
6 months - document everything that keeps the business running
6 months - start shopping buyers and getting legal and financial advice
6 months - conclude the sale with the best offer
Total elapsed time: 7 years - build a software company, brought it to profitability and exited by selling it to a giant tech company
But just to put in perspective, you referenced "6 months" as some huge time investment. Not to be harsh, but buddy, friend, 6 months is just long enough for the trek to the base-camp of the mountain where you set up tent and gaze in awe at the magnitude of the climb awaiting you - but don't gaze too long.
MJ says it's all about process - the process of climbing a little of the mountain each day, for as long as it takes, no matter which of your friends fall of the face to their death, no matter what of your tools break.
I believe you've probably gotten that, by reading the responses to this thread. You don't fail or succeed because of your training, or your mentors.
You fail or succeed because you have either accepted failure as an option, or you have not. I have not. I'm not counting days, months, miles to the summit. I'm just deciding what I need to do today and then doing it.
I'll pull you up if you pull me up. Keep at it man, I wish I'd started in software back when I first moved to self-employment. Honestly, software is where the REAL money is.
Hi. My name is Enrique.well MJ was right as were others when he said that the whole application process was just a marketing ploy; I don't think anyone was "turned" away
the information was laid out in a very sloppy manner honestly-- the info that was put was not bad at all-- just not laid out in any coherent way
everyone who did it with me was very cool and very excited to learn
people were very nice and bought in big time to what dane taught-- maybe too much for my taste ( but thats just personal), because towards the end it felt very cult-like .... you couldnt disagree with anything being taught and if you were failing it was due to "limiting beliefs"-- :/
I believe I failed because I went in knowing nothing about marketing/ business/ SaaS/ copywriting/ anything... I spent much of the first few months catching up-- half the time I didnt know what I was talking about or learning... It was overwhelming because to start a software business when you know nothing about software is kinda crazy in retrospect
its not impossible-- just highly unlikely
I took a ton of action... I made about 50-60 calls.. sent 2000 emails using the scripts they gave me-- did in person visits -- and tried to"extract" many problems in a business that were simple and easy to solve and no other solution existed
You had to totally understand a market like the back of your hand, and it was hard...
in the end.. I didnt get many ideas to work with and I kept spinning my wheels
I was lost,confused and frustrated and it topped off with one of the members starting his own info products and signing up other students and having them market for him in a MLM format in a very aggressive manner.. wasnt cool
do I think the foundation gave good info? yes I do... it was just laid out in a confusing manner
I dont think the foundation is for newbies or people without a background in software or business
also the cash needed to pay for software development was very high and the whole " get people to pay for you" thing was a little pie in the sky and Im not sure many people did that
in the end I think 10% of students had some success and I think only 1% did very very well... but to my knowledge they were already into software and business and this "system" just kind of helped them along
so my advice for anyone out there thinking about doing it is this...
if you know software or have a strong background in business then this might be for you, if not... stick to these forums
the basics are
- choose a market
- send emails/cold call and talk to the best people in that industry
- ask them about their day and see if there is any problems that could be solved with software
-presell them on the idea
- validate with asking for money
-get more beta users
I dont think Im giving away any secrets as Dane and Sam both said the same thing in many many many interviews
Id be happy to answer any more questions
Hi. My name is Enrique.
What does, "Build MVP" mean? And what do you mean when you say, "Get more beta users?" How do you get people to become beta users. And finally, When pre selling, what f they ask, "What is your website?" and I still haven't built since I'm first pre selling to see if the idea is viable?
If someone reads my book but can't sell, can't write, and can't communicate and yet this reader "takes action" for a few weeks, and doesn't get results, does that make my book a scam? Does that make me any less of an instructor?
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