Fear & Trembling is the Best Place to Start

[Black_Dragon43]

You may have heard it said that it’s not good to try and do business from a place of desperation. That negative emotions like fear, anger, shame are weights that pull you down. That first you need to get rid of them, and only then you can be successful.

My message is the exact opposite. Whatsoever dark and negative emotions you’re experiencing — they are what will make you successful. I still remember that story from “How to Sell Anything to Anybody” by Joe Girard who is still in the Guiness Book for the greatest salesman of all time.

It was about how he made his first sale in a commission only job, because he was DESPERATE to get food for his family. And he did it without any skill and without any system. It was pure desperation — if memory serves me right, he said he imagined the customer’s head being a bag full of groceries, which is what he needed for his family.

Once you learn to leverage negative emotions to drive you forward, you’ll find that they are the BEST motivators. Much better and much stronger than positive emotions.

So be thankful for your darkness. It will be the key to your success — just learn how to use it FOR you rather than AGAINST you.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[heavy_industry]

@Primeperiwinkle I think it's better if we can stick to the original topic. You two clearly disagree with each other and this is unlikely to change any time soon.

I think that the core idea is that not all negative emotions are inherently bad. Pain can be a very strong indicator that it's time to change.

Perhaps that's why on the forum we have been discussing about experiencing an FTE, and use it as a catalyst for improvement.

GOLD! - MINDSET - FTE - CHAT - Have you had your "FTE"? (Or Was it an FTM?!)

So this is an open call for everyone to share their "FTE" story, otherwise known as their "F*ck This Event." A "F*ck this event" is an incident in your life that pushes you over the ledge of a SCRIPTED existence. It is a pejorative "I've had it!" or a "I can't live like this!" moment that...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[heavy_industry]

Listen I am desperate. I get down on my knees every day to service our lord in prayer

I would highly recommend that you watch this video by @MJ DeMarco
It's an excellent step-by-step strategy to get out of your current situation and move towards a better future.

Perhaps it's time to postpone the millions, and focus on getting the basics right first. Wealth and freedom is going to be a gradual process, and there are very few people that can skip the foundational steps.

Keep your head up. Put one foot in front of the other.
There are clear skies ahead.

---

@Black_Dragon43 's take on this mindset is very interesting, but I think that he can manage to pull it off because he is highly intelligent, has a solid skillset that was built over the course of a decade, and may have access to other resources that you currently lack.

I am operating a lot more on the bright side (most of the time).
I find that the most empowering and sustainable emotions in the long run are: curiosity, joy, and wonder.

Anytime I learn something interesting or work on a meaningful project, I feel like I am a kid once again.

This feeling of awe and wonder is what has drawn me to entrepreneurship.

 

[Kak]

Lol blow me.

I’m done with you. I should have posted my thread to the inside because you can’t afford it.

NOTABLE! - SIDE HUSTLE - A Job Isn’t Giving Up

Some people here just need to hear that getting a job isn’t quitting. It isn’t giving up on your dreams. Provision is necessary and worry isn’t a good place to start. A job can provide relief from your worry and you can always quit any time you want. My one caveat to this suggestion is not...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I’m going to need somebody to summarize the reasons people are fed up with Black Dragon. I need a leaderboard; I have beer.

I’ll tell you why — it’s because I see the world differently from them and they’re never able to argue for their views rationally, so they prefer to resort to insults & violence (the latter in the form of crying to the moderators to silence me). You’ll never hear me try to silence people expressing views that are opposite to mine, the forum is a home to all, and the more diversity the better as far as I’m concerned. It’s intellectual diversity that gets people to think for themselves, which imo is more important than being told what to think.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Primeperiwinkle]

Crushing it lady, looking like $39K/mo in March so far, 18 new clients brought in, 1 just joined today. Now let’s get back on topic.

that’s a good question — if only you weren’t asking it in jest.

You tap into those negative emotions first of all by not opposing them and trying to fight against them.

Most people when they feel something negative, they try to get rid of it. You feel angry because you’re a brokie, so you tell yourself uhh uhh it’s OK, I still have a girlfriend, let’s be happy bla bla. That’s why you remain a loser.

I wake up angry because I’m not a billionaire, and instead of counting my blessings, I divert that energy into signing up a few more clients and improving my processes for delivering results for them.

You see the difference?

That’s the start of it. Next comes the realization that your negative emotions don’t control your actions. I can be depressed and still hit the gym. And so can you. The problem is that you’ve trained yourself, made it into a habit, that when you’re depressed you “can’t” do certain things, like hitting the gym. So you don’t.

After that at a more advanced stage, you feel joy at your negative emotions, because you UNDERSTAND their purpose and how much they’re helping you. This is also, precisely the point that Spinoza was making — understanding leads the blessedness. Not blessedness because you always feel happy, but blessedness because you understand that your darkness is your biggest ally.

Sorry for the lag, I’m destroying someone’s argument on another forum.

Do you think leaning into your darker side is safe for everybody or only people who have a clear moral framework which tightly controls their behavior? Like would you recommend just anyone to lean into their dark side?

I’m not asking in jest. I am capable of amusing people, attaining my own ends, respecting your intelligence and exploring various concepts simultaneously. Why aren’t you at 50k a month yet?

 

[Skroob]

I dont understand how he is setting back computers? Microsoft isnt the only operating system either, with apple now having more market, and AI seems to be a breakthrough

Oh let's see... He's not setting computers back now, because he ran Microsoft in the 90s. When he was running Microsoft, he used his market position to smother any kind of competition in any area of computing, a strategy known as "embrace, extend, extinguish". By attempting to force all changes to come from his company so he could control it, he stalled out a lot of potential innovation and the industry took about 20 years and a paradigm shift into mobile to really recover from. "Microsoft" isn't the only OS and never was, sure, but "Apple" does not have more market than anyone. Windows has more install base on desktop, and Android has more on mobile. AI has been getting progressively better and has taken a big step in the last 6 months, but that has absolutely nothing to do with Bill Gates, who left his CEO job almost 20 years ago and hasn't been relevant in the industry since.

But please, tell the guy who lived through the MS-World of the 90s as a Mac user more about what a great guy Bill Gates is.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

No, not one shall be forgotten who was great in the world. But each was great in his own way, and each in proportion to the greatness of that which he loved. For he who loved himself became great by himself, and he who loved other men became great by his selfless devotion, but he who loved God became greater than all. Everyone shall be remembered, but each became great in proportion to his expectation. One became great by expecting the possible, another by expecting the eternal, but he who expected the impossible became greater than all.

Excerpt from: "Fear and Trembling" by Soren Kierkegaard. Scribd.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Read this book on Scribd: Fear and Trembling by Soren Kierkegaard - Ebook | Scribd

*happy dance

Hey dude? Thank you.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Skroob]

Counterpoint: when you're desperate to make money, people can smell it on you. When I was there, it didn't feel motivating. I wasn't ragescreaming HOW AM I NOT A BILLIONAIRE YET, leaping out of bed to try to make the universe my financial bitch; I was in abject panic about paying my mortgage and feeding my wife and daughter the next day. And because I looked sounded and acted desperate, nobody wanted anything to do with me. I don't think I could have sold ice cream in a Florida July if I'd tried.

So what are you saying here? Sure, a strong desire to achieve your goals, and a discomfort with not being there yet, can be a great motivator, I agree with that. But I don't think that's what you mean.

Is a lawyer culpable because he defends a criminal? My purpose is to teach success — not ethics. And the reason why that’s my purpose is precisely because I see success and ethics as separate and sometimes even opposed.

The alternative is to teach people what Plato called a NOBLE LIE — to tell people a falsehood just to make sure they always choose what’s right over what leads to success.

I am not responsible for other people’s choices. I am honestly sharing what I see as leading to success. Whether you use it or not, or HOW you use it, that’s your business.

Um... Don't take this the wrong way, but has anyone ever asked you if you're a sociopath before?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

If you agree with all of that then why would leaning into fear and trembling be the best option.. unless you’ve been quoting scripture and I just assumed you weren’t a Christian?

I aspire to be a Christian, but I wouldn’t call myself one. That’s a very high standard, which I’m not sure I can meet.

I am quoting Scripture and also Kierkegaard’s book titled Fear & Trembling which is a series of different interpretations of the scene in Genesis when God asks Abraham to take his son Isaac to Mt. Moriah and offer him in sacrifice. It’s about the necessary uncertainty and negative emotions that are part of life’s journey — integrating those and using them.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I’ll tell you why — it’s because I see the world differently from them and they’re never able to argue for their views rationally, so they prefer to resort to insults & violence (the latter in the form of crying to the moderators to silence me). You’ll never hear me try to silence people expressing views that are opposite to mine, the forum is a home to all, and the more diversity the better as far as I’m concerned. It’s intellectual diversity that gets people to think for themselves, which imo is more important than being told what to think.

Ok. I hear you. Have you made good money this year dude? I feel like you’re having fun trolling ppl. Maybe you’re right and they need to be trolled.. but maybe they’re not ready for your wisdom. Just sayin.

I feel like you’re bored and need a challenge. Am I right?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Ok. I hear you. Have you made good money this year dude? I feel like you’re having fun trolling ppl. Maybe you’re right and they need to be trolled.. but maybe they’re not ready for your wisdom. Just sayin.

I feel like you’re bored and need a challenge. Am I right?

I’m not trolling anyone. Please keep the thread on topic.

I read the forum and when I find things I disagree with, I will express my views in threads of my own not to hijack other people’s discussions. I’d appreciate if you did the same with my threads!

 

[Shono]

I’m pretty sure the topic isn’t whether I’m bored, trolling or have made money this year LOL!

The topic is how your relationship to your negative emotions determines your success. I see the negative emotions as our best motivators once we learn to use them.

Now what do you think about that?

Listen I am desperate. I get down on my knees every day to service our lord in prayer i will do what it takes no matter what to turn this anger and shame into money one day i agree with what you said 100% thanks for servicing the forum with your wisdom

 

[heavy_industry]

Basically I’m having an open-ended interesting conversation with someone who can handle disagreements. If he wants me to stop or back off he can tell me himself. He’s a grown-up.

I did not say this because I am trying to defend OP. He is articulated enough to do it himself.

The problem is that as of recently there have been a number of threads that have been completely derailed by endless disagreement that did not lead to any conclusion, which is very annoying for all the readers.

Pretty much any argument can be settled in less than 5 posts. If not, we can agree to disagree and that's the end of the story.

If he wants me to stop or back off he can tell me himself.

He already did, twice. And very politely:

Please keep the thread on topic.

Now let’s get back on topic.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Ok I think I got you.

Our hearts contain a large quantity of energy. Whether that emotional energy is described as fear, desperation, anger, greed or courage, faith, hope, giving.. doesn’t matter. All of those emotions can be harnessed, controlled and then ridden to our ultimate goal - like a good horse.

If you aren’t in control of our emotions then our rational selves won’t be able to lead the rest of us anywhere. (I actually believe in a tripartite description of humans but I don’t want to get in to that here.)

Is that basically your point?

I can smell a Platonist, which doesn’t surprise me given that you’re a devout Christian right?

I have greatly enjoyed Plato’s Gorgias + Republic, and Xenophon’s Hiero on topics related to power/success and morality/happiness.

It’s hard for me to answer your question, because that’s not exactly what I mean.

Should the rational part lead? Plato certainly thought so… And his criticism of the Sophists was essentially that their philosophy is self-contradictory, which is true. If you try to take my philosophy or even fastlane and advocate it for the majority of human beings you’d create a terrible society.

For a society to function, we can’t all desire to be kings. That would lead to internal contradictions, since by definition not everyone can be a king. That would be chaos, not order. Some of us need to be slaves, others regular citizens, some poor, some rich and yes, some of us, even emperors.

Do I think Plato’s vision works? No — putting reason at the head is trying to inject a stability into the world that simply isn’t there. And reason, as Nietzsche correctly pointed out, is self-destructive and leads to nihilism ultimately, and the proverbial death of God — which it would be better to understand as the forgetfulness of God.

Machiavelli’s response to Plato would be that philosophy is self-contradictory ultimately and it has no stability because the world is always changing and hence always self-contradictory. What worked yesterday, no longer works today. Heraclitus’s everchanging flux. Machiavelli would say “I can’t tell you if you should be a beast or a man, because sometimes you should be a beast, sometimes you should be a man — a definitive answer cannot be provided”.

We can create a philosophy based on stability, but ultimately it collapses when exposed to reality.

Remember back in Plato’s Gorgias, the scene where Calicles asks Socrates if he’d choose life over the Truth, and Socrates makes his final allegiance to the Truth, saying he’d rather die than betray the Truth, because it is a bigger loss to do otherwise? Calicles from that point forward is rendered silent, his only “rebuke” is “you’re crazy Socrates, you’re idealistic, we live in the real world, your friends may need you, you may need to make all these compromises to stay alive, etc” But Socrates is uncompromising on the point. There is something very human in Callicles at that point, that untempered devotion to Truth (and Reason) will kill. And likewise something very Godly about Socrates. I think that tension between reason and passion needs to be maintained.

I think the most important part of the soul is spiritedness — what the Greeks called thumos. Thumos can subdue rampant pleasure-seeking/desire, and can also direct reason towards the achievement of artistic goals.

It is spiritedness, not reason that causes you to aspire to wealth or aspire to God. Spiritedness is essentially your will, not your reason. And this even makes sense according to Christian teaching… because what is the sin of malice (worst possible kind of sin), but knowing through your reason that something is evil, but choosing the evil nevertheless? Evil understood in the classical sense as choosing a lower good over a higher good… for example, material wealth, over saving someone’s life.

This was Christianity’s great insight over Plato. You can know something is evil, and still choose the evil. Plato would say that’s impossible! If you truly knew, you wouldn’t choose it, it’s only ignorance that makes you sin. Christianity adds the all important component of will, which is at the foundation of free choice ultimately.

So to attempt to clarify what I mean… I mean that people should cultivate the spirited part of their soul which will allow them to maintain the tension between reason on the one hand, and desire/pleasure on the other. Using your negative emotions for strength is cultivating your thumos.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Black_Dragon43]

So you empower people to think for themselves by teaching them but you have no authority on any topics?

Yes. You listen to me at your own risk, just as you listen to anyone else at your own risk. There are no “authorities” in life. That’s a bullshit concept that others have invented to get you to obey them and be their slaves. I really do wonder why not everyone is able to see this… and why so many people refuse to think with their own God-given brains, and will instead let someone else think for them.

MJ talks about this all the time. For God’s sake, it’s the first letter in CENTS. And yet, you guys go on doing exactly the same thing. Giving up control — you’ve given up control your entire lives, don’t you get it?! That’s why you’re where you are, because you’ve always given up control…

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

Bill gates is such a good example though, because he is such a prominent philanthropist, so generously helping all of those people and selflessly using his money to making breakthroughs in medical and now farming procedures for the benefit of all humanity. And I think research has shown the happiest people are those that seflessly help others the most, so he must be very happy despite being so successful! Bill gates should be an inspiration to us all

Wow, you keep sticking your foot in your mouth. I need to bring back that negative/down vote reaction. And this is a classic case of the "HA HA" reaction is not laughter in unison, but laughter in utter disgust.

 

[Skroob]

Wow, you keep sticking your foot in your mouth. I need to bring back that negative/down vote reaction. And this is a classic case of the "HA HA" reaction is not laughter in unison, but laughter in utter disgust.

If you read it as deep sarcastic irony, it works! Billy G has always had our best interests in mind! He’s definitely not just trying to make a name as a philanthropist/establishment toe-the-line-or-else pusher to distract from setting the most important industry of our lives back by 20 years out of sheer selfishness!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Wow, you keep sticking your foot in your mouth. I need to bring back that negative/down vote reaction. And this is a classic case of the "HA HA" reaction is not laughter in unison, but laughter in utter disgust.

Well MJ, it is proof of one thing: the propaganda machine is working. Maybe not for most people here (fastlane is a fringe philosophy which usually attracts more open-minded people who question “accepted truths” and “authority”), but to the vast number of average people, it’s working…

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I’m going to need somebody to summarize the reasons people are fed up with Black Dragon. I need a leaderboard; I have beer.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I’m on topic. You just haven’t seen the connection yet.

I’m pretty sure the topic isn’t whether I’m bored, trolling or have made money this year LOL!

The topic is how your relationship to your negative emotions determines your success. I see the negative emotions as our best motivators once we learn to use them.

Now what do you think about that?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Do you think leaning into your darker side is safe for everybody or only people who have a clear moral framework which tightly controls their behavior? Like would you recommend just anyone to lean into their dark side?

I am not a teacher of morals here. My goal is to teach success, not morality. I leave morality to each individual person to make up their own mind on.

Having said that, my own opinion is that success and morality are separate, as I have said many times before. And sometimes, they are opposed.

If you look at the most materially successful people in history — they have been the biggest criminals.

And if you look at the most moral and saintly people in history… they have been killed by the immoral. Like Jesus, Socrates or Ghandi.

So I am not claiming that tapping into your darkness is risk-free. Quite the contrary — it is risky, but success doesn’t come without risk. Success requires BOLDNESS. So you have to decide for yourself what matters more to you, and what your values are, and act accordingly.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I am not a teacher of morals here. My goal is to teach success, not morality. I leave morality to each individual person to make up their own mind on.

Having said that, my own opinion is that success and morality are separate, as I have said many times before. And sometimes, they are opposed.

If you look at the most materially successful people in history — they have been the biggest criminals.

And if you look at the most moral and saintly people in history… they have been killed by the immoral. Like Jesus, Socrates or Ghandi.

So I am not claiming that tapping into your darkness is risk-free. Quite the contrary — it is risky, but success doesn’t come without risk. Success requires BOLDNESS. So you have to decide for yourself what matters more to you, and what your values are, and act accordingly.

So you’re not culpable if you weaponize morally dubious individuals by helping them to use their dark sides?

Is that not taken straight out of the Sith playbook?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Primeperiwinkle]

Counterpoint: when you're desperate to make money, people can smell it on you. When I was there, it didn't feel motivating. I wasn't ragescreaming HOW AM I NOT A BILLIONAIRE YET, leaping out of bed to try to make the universe my financial bitch; I was in abject panic about paying my mortgage and feeding my wife and daughter the next day. And because I looked sounded and acted desperate, nobody wanted anything to do with me. I don't think I could have sold ice cream in a Florida July if I'd tried.

So what are you saying here? Sure, a strong desire to achieve your goals, and a discomfort with not being there yet, can be a great motivator, I agree with that. But I don't think that's what you mean.



Um... Don't take this the wrong way, but has anyone ever asked you if you're a sociopath before?

If he was, would he answer? Hmmm. I just wish we could verify his business stuff. Then I’d be way more willing to take his advice and use my dark powers.

*cough

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Primeperiwinkle]

So you need to verify my business stuff, because you want me to be your master, because I’m more successful than you right?

Why can’t you just think for yourself and judge ideas based on their own merits, rather than on who comes up with them?

If I’m successful or not shouldn’t matter to you. It’s the same thing that people obsessed with testimonials and case studies think.

Let me tell you, case studies are worse than useless. I’d never look at a case study or testimonial. I’m just not interested in them.

Because I use my own brain and logic to make decisions, I don’t surrender my decision-making powers to a guru because he’s more successful than me.

That would be retarded. You’re smart enough to assess ideas using your own mind, not someone’s success. People can be very successful and very DUMB — it’s not a rule that being successful makes you smart. It doesn’t! In fact, being dumb is usually an advantage as we were discussing in the IQ thread…

If you want to discuss bdsm we can. Are you into that?

I’d like you to verify your income if you can but without a third party I doubt ppl would trust you.

If someone is an authority on a subject then they deserve more trust, don’t you think?

 

[Shono]

You can’t be out with your mates at the pub watching the World Cup when your name is Bill Gates.

Bill gates is such a good example though, because he is such a prominent philanthropist, so generously helping all of those people and selflessly using his money to making breakthroughs in medical and now farming procedures for the benefit of all humanity. And I think research has shown the happiest people are those that seflessly help others the most, so he must be very happy despite being so successful! Bill gates should be an inspiration to us all

 

[heavy_industry]

And this is a classic case of the "HA HA" reaction is not laughter in unison, but laughter in utter disgust.

Guys STOP using the HAHA reaction!

We're about to get the no-haha forum prohibition reinstated.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

@Primeperiwinkle I think it's better if we can stick to the original topic. You two clearly disagree with each other and this is unlikely to change any time soon.

I think that the core idea is that not all negative emotions are inherently bad. Pain can be a very strong indicator that it's time to change.

Perhaps that's why on the forum we have been discussing about experiencing an FTE, and use it as a catalyst for improvement.

GOLD! - MINDSET - FTE - CHAT - Have you had your "FTE"? (Or Was it an FTM?!)

So this is an open call for everyone to share their "FTE" story, otherwise known as their "F*ck This Event." A "F*ck this event" is an incident in your life that pushes you over the ledge of a SCRIPTED existence. It is a pejorative "I've had it!" or a "I can't live like this!" moment that...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

I’ve been on the original topic this entire time. Really. I’m just ENTP and I enjoy having cross currents of thought. I don’t usually engage just to troll people. BD is wicked smart. I have a gut instinct that he could help me with something but I’m not entirely sure whether he’ll help me by accident, on purpose, by his mistakes or his successes.

Basically I’m having an open-ended interesting conversation with someone who can handle disagreements. If he wants me to stop or back off he can tell me himself. He’s a grown-up.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

It’s very hard to point to a specific part. Most of my thoughts have been developed over years of reading through the Western philosophical cannon and thinking about these issues.

For Fear & Trembling, I recommend reading it in order. It may seem weird at first, the story is told from the internal perspective of Abraham, what he could have been experiencing in those moments. It’s good to read and then reflect on it and come up with your own thoughts!

Ok, will do.

But riddle me this. Do you think “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” could apply to every type of salvation experience? And then the next question would be which scripture (or truth) balances it out when we’re discussing it’s connection to business? Surely I have to help myself first.. but do you think this goes as deep as like predestination..?

Do you choose business and then like Goethe says, that boldness is met by the universe with open doors?

*happy sigh


THERE’S A WHOLE SECTION ON POETRY! I’m hugging you now. Just stand still and take it!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Do you think “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” could apply to every type of salvation experience?

This goes into deep theological issues and will get us very far off-topic. I will just say one small thing on this: I think that so long as you are alive, there will always be "fear and trembling" because you live in tension... between this world and God's kingdom. And that tension cannot be extinguished while you're still alive, hence every salvation experience occurs in that context. Please bear in mind that my knowledge of theology is minimal compared to my knowledge of say philosophy, so consider me a dilettante in those matters, rather than an expert.

Now let's return to being on topic in the thread!