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NOTABLE! Diary of Opening A New Business

RHL

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So, after three years of executing, you're going to tell me that my asking for more info is making you "nervous"? I am really going to be able to rip off three years of "pro-entrepreneur" execution by learning that he runs XYZ Widgets & Things in Austin Texas?
Don't be upset. You are not looking analogically at the cases of theft and fraud that already happened. They were never perpetrated by the person who was a forum regular and actively commenting in the threads, nor was I suggesting that you had any intent to steal the ideas yourself. If I came off that way, I apologize.

Rather, after info was in the open because someone had legitimate reasons to be curious (like you do), a lurking user with the means duplicated the idea and went on to be an aggravation.

To say that these questions pose no threat is to make two assumptions: 1. That everyone who reads responses to your inquiries has the same code of honor and honesty you do, and also 2. that everyone browsing this open "outside" thread is constrained by the same liquidity and magnitude limitations that you or I have. The former is definitely untrue-we've seen thieves and cheats on here before. The later could be true or untrue. Who is to say that there might not be someone far richer than either of us keeping a shrewd eye out for a good opportunity? As was pointed out in the thread about JasonR's problems, a competitor need not be strong enough to take you out in order to really throw a wrench in your business.

Otherwise I generally agree with the concern that people have been too trusting on here. I think the only thing for it, unfortunately, is that you need to make your own, often painful mistakes to get your craigslist biz going. I lost almost $10K, or 20% of my gross-take home at the time, before I found my footing. And I did a TON of research before I jumped in.
 

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andviv

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So you entered the ads in craigslist?

How did that work?

What emails did you get back from people interested on this opportunity?

Or you are not going to try it yourself?
Why not?
What's there for you to lose?

If it does not work as you want, tweak it until it does. No?

Or is there any cost associated with trying that and you are not willing or capable to pay that free craigslist ad?

I am curious as to what you need in order to go after your own venture...
 

redsfaithful

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Elon Musk isn't walking around saying, "I can't tell you what I'm working on, it may be in the space industry." Why? Because the dude solves hard problems and that's what sets him apart.

After three years of executing, you're going to tell me that my asking for more info is making you "nervous"? I am really going to be able to rip off three years of "pro-entrepreneur" execution by learning that he runs XYZ Widgets & Things in Austin Texas?

Give me a break.

If everyone on here is so scared to let other people know their business and product, they aren't solving a hard enough problem.
I think this thread is a pretty sterling example of why many people are so easily taken in by business gurus. And it might be (probably is? I really have no idea) legit, but nobody even asks the question.

I don't really trust business information online unless I actually know someone's business and that they are successful. In my personal business, I find that I know more than 99.9% of so called gurus, which has upped my skepticism in general 1000%.

Has anyone started a business because of this thread? Has anyone rented office space, etc and taken a shot? This has to be one of the most read threads in the history of the board, no?
 

csalvato

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I am curious as to what you need in order to go after your own venture...
I have several failed ventures under my belt, one small profitable [passive] success and another that I'm actively scaling with Andy Black. The wedding planning idea was something that came up about a week ago as another venture to pursue until I saw which one was gaining traction. It turns out my venture with Andy is doing really well (profitable after 7 days), so I took the focus off the planning stuff until we see how it pans out.

It's odd you assume I'm not going for my own venture, or several - especially when my posting history pretty clearly shows I have been trying and failing (and succeeding) for some time now.

Otherwise I generally agree with the concern that people have been too trusting on here. I think the only thing for it, unfortunately, is that you need to make your own, often painful mistakes to get your craigslist biz going.
I think we are on the same page.

I do think there is a solution, though. I think MJ/forum admins need to demand verification for certain things. On Reddit, for example, you need to verify your claims. For example, if you say you are Bill Clinton doing an AMA, you normally have a staff of reddit there to help with questions; or you post on your twitter that you are doing the AMA.

There are ways to verify credibility without making EVERYTHING public.

I think this thread is a pretty sterling example of why many people are so easily taken in by business gurus. And it might be (probably is? I really have no idea) legit, but nobody even asks the question.

I don't really trust business information online unless I actually know someone's business and that they are successful. In my personal business, I find that I know more than 99.9% of so called gurus, which has upped my skepticism in general 1000%.

Has anyone started a business because of this thread? Has anyone rented office space, etc and taken a shot? This has to be one of the most read threads in the history of the board, no?
Quoted for so much truth. You have always been on my page @redsfaithful. I feel like I need to fly to Ohio to meet you.

Look out for a PM
 

Mike Kavanagh

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For someone who doesn't care, you're doing a good job of faking it. This makes me nervous. The fallout of digging like this basically made @JasonR stop posting, @biophase seems to be way less active since those two scammers sniffed out and ripped off his two businesses (can anyone blame him?), Jack posts very infrequently, LikWid posts very infrequently, pretty soon we'll be left with a forum full of posts like this:

And nobody will have to bother snooping around forum content creators' successful businesses because no one who remains active here here will have a successful business anymore.
Not to mention the disappearance of Zen and ICK being much less active.
Bad apples poison the well.
 

Lakeview

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So when I see someone who is behind a computer, I assume there is a chance he is lying. When I hear from other forum members that no one has ever heard WHAT this business is, let alone the industry it's in, that raises a red flag. I am trying to decide if this is advice I should actually take, or if @JackEdwards has been blowing smoke up my a$$.
@csalvato You have been around a while. You're an Insider and you have access to Jack's Insider Conference Call (I thought it was good and credible). Jack provided many a phone calls to help others and he attended the C&B earlier this year, allowed access to himself and even presented. Let's move on.

But, remember the real point was that it just doesn't matter.
 
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csalvato

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@csalvato You have been around a while. You're an Insider and you have access to Jack's Insider Conference Call (I thought it was good and credible). Jack provided many a phone calls to help others and he attended the C&B earlier this year, allowed access to himself and even presented. Let's move on.
To my knowledge it wasn't recorded.

And to be frank, it DOES matter if this is fiction. If i want to read a fictional book about building a business, I would buy a book. If I am looking for a mentor (even an indirect mentor), I want to know he is credible.

Sorry, I disagree.
 

xmartel

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Canada, eh!
You need to stop.
I went down to Texas and met with him. He's legit. That's all you need to know.

But congratulations, you've managed to derail one of the greatest threads on this forum.

If you need to whine about your point of view, then go start another thread on it, don't derail this one.
 

csalvato

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You need to stop.
I went down to Texas and met with him. He's legit. That's all you need to know.

But congratulations, you've managed to derail one of the greatest threads on this forum.

If you need to whine about your point of view, then go start another thread on it, don't derail this one.
Maybe I should share the PMs I received from other people who agree with me, but are too scared to post anything here because of people like you?

[[Names protected obviously..]]

Hey man,

Props for publicly stating what should be said. I had one of those $75 calls with Jack a while back and while it was very useful, it was REALLY weird that he wouldn't reveal his industry or company. I mean, it's not like I was or would be interested or able to steal his idea. Or even cause him biz harm.

THEN he wanted to be a "paid mentor" (Creepy); I said, well not until you reveal who you are, and I'd like to visit your biz.

*Crickets* since then.

Cheers bro,
I was pretty excited when I first found this forum. It seemed like the first place I'd ever seen online where it was mostly doers and not newbies and people chasing forum fame, but once I'd read the 10 or 15 highest viewed threads it mostly seems meh. The day to day isn't as impressive, and I've kind of been having a bad feeling about some of the well known posters for awhile now. When people aren't sharing anything concrete ...
My interest is still peaked by the 1 on 1 calls. I don't think we've been updated yet.
You've basically said what most of us are too afraid to utter.

This forum's been a little wonky lately, <<redacted>> and I'm not even sure what happened....

I agree 100%, all the big talkers need to prove their validity at least to MJ. That a superb idea.

Funny how on podcasts like Mixergy or Entrepreneur on Fire, entrepreneurs are willing to share all kinds of details about their businesses, at various stages of their development too.

<<redacted>

Anyhow, just some random thoughts
I didn't want to post this because I can do without drama.

I just wanted to say it was good to read you questioning the issues with Jack Edwards post regarding him starting and selling his business and the veracity of it.

I haven't been on the Forum as much because the real world action is taking a lot of time. Also because I question the quality, and truthfulness of some of the members and threads. I've gotten a LOT from this forum and I'm not leaving...although I don't think I'll renew my Insiders tomorrow. Partly because I haven't been on so much and partly because every dollar I make, I put back into making more. (Selling on Ebay..to fund my project).

I like to stay in touch with the guys who are sharp...like you seeing the Red Flags.

So that's it. PM me if I can do anything for you.
What does that say to you? I'm curious.

This thread isn't "derailed". It's just where it needs to be.

QUESTION EVERYTHING.

I'm glad you met him -- but how does that lend to his credibility at all for me?
 
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redsfaithful

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Process and industry do matter. It's kind of laughable to suggest otherwise and suggests some naivety. If it were just a matter of mindset business would be easy. I'm personally thankful it's not.

If that paid mentor thing is true, that's kind of weird.

Flat out, I've made mid six figures a year (think $300-600k) in recent years, and the amount of money I would need to be a mentor to somebody to make it worth my time would be prohibitive. And I am small time in the grand scheme of things. I know guys who make way more than I do and there's just no way they'd waste their time. If anything they'd get a book deal or sell an online course.

The thing is, if you are actually a cash machine there should be more money in the doing than in the teaching. Always. Someone who goes for the teaching should set off alarm bells.

I enjoy helping people, and I do that here when I feel like I have some value to add. But trying to upsell $75 calls into paid mentorships is another level.

I don't know. Maybe guru'ing pays better than I realize.

And caveat again, I have no idea who is real and who isn't on this forum, I'm fairly new, I'm just saying csalvato is raising good points and a lot of the users here could stand to be way more skeptical.
 

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Vigilante

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I will play both sides of the fence.

1. Question everything

2. Did you know that there was likely no "Rich Dad?" From what I have gathered, Kiyosaki made up the parable. It is still equally potent. I would still recommend the book. I would still recommend the paradigm shift of this thread and the thought process.

3. Question everything
 

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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2. Did you know that there was likely no "Rich Dad?" From what I have gathered, Kiyosaki made up the parable. It is still equally potent. I would still recommend the book. I would still recommend the paradigm shift of this thread and the thought process.
Yes.

Just like this thread.

Whether it was 100% true to life or not (I'm inclined to think it was), the tactics, rapid action, and build-out were so darn inspiring.
 

jon.a

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Process and industry do matter. It's kind of laughable to suggest otherwise and suggests some naivety. If it were just a matter of mindset business would be easy. I'm personally thankful it's not.

If that paid mentor thing is true, that's kind of weird.

Flat out, I've made mid six figures a year (think $300-600k) in recent years, and the amount of money I would need to be a mentor to somebody to make it worth my time would be prohibitive. And I am small time in the grand scheme of things. I know guys who make way more than I do and there's just no way they'd waste their time. If anything they'd get a book deal or sell an online course.

The thing is, if you are actually a cash machine there should be more money in the doing than in the teaching. Always. Someone who goes for the teaching should set off alarm bells.

I enjoy helping people, and I do that here when I feel like I have some value to add. But trying to upsell $75 calls into paid mentorships is another level.

I don't know. Maybe guru'ing pays better than I realize.

And caveat again, I have no idea who is real and who isn't on this forum, I'm fairly new, I'm just saying csalvato is raising good points and a lot of the users here could stand to be way more skeptical.
What up-sell? I didn't get offered an up-sell.
 

Vigilante

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What up-sell? I didn't get offered an up-sell.
You don't need an upsell.

Anyone trying to upsell YOU would be like me trying to offer you mustache advice.

#youdon'tupsellthemaster
 

jon.a

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You don't need an upsell.

Anyone trying to upsell YOU would be like me trying to offer you mustache advice.

#youdon'tupsellthemaster
Keep my title str8 I'm a Senior not a Master.
 

xmartel

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Canada, eh!
Maybe I should share the PMs I received from other people who agree with me, but are too scared to post anything here because of people like you?

[[Names protected obviously..]]











What does that say to you? I'm curious.

This thread isn't "derailed". It's just where it needs to be.

QUESTION EVERYTHING.

I'm glad you met him -- but how does that lend to his credibility at all for me?

"People like me?" That's quite the assuming statement. You know nothing about me.

And what's there to be scared of? Tell them to take their panties off. It's a forum. Have an opinion. Post it. It'd be a good discussion, but shouldn't come at the expense of a great thread.

Also keep in mind, just because people agree with you it doesn't automatically make you right.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't question everything. In fact I think it's good to question. You can't weed out the BS or learn nearly as much if you don't.

But this thread is not where it needs to be. You have derailed it.

You need to start your own thread. I don't think hijacking this one adds value to the forum.

I think a vetting process would be great. But it'd have to be optional and keep in mind that even if there was one, it doesn't mean everyone that shares their storey would want to go through the process. Some people like their privacy, want to help some people, but don't need to waste their time proving anything to anyone.

If someone chooses to not go through the vetting process, it doesn't automatically make their storey BS.

You haven't been here very long. But MJ used to have something like that. Forum members that could prove their networth had their networth posted under their name. More or less where your speed is listed right now. If I remember correctly he stopped doing it because it was optional (obviously) and most people that had high net worths chose not be vetted. They liked their privacy and didn't feel the need to prove anything. They just wanted to be here to share their wisdom when they could. Doesn't mean they weren't legit because they weren't vetted.

Now you've kind of suckered me into the discussion here. But lets get this thread back on track, and you go start your own.
 

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csalvato

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Yes.

Just like this thread.

Whether it was 100% true to life or not (I'm inclined to think it was), the tactics, rapid action, and build-out were so darn inspiring.
Parables are great. I can buy that.

But when I read MFL (the thing that got me to join this forum), @MJ DeMarco said he started this forum because another forum was shit and he wanted to make it better. He had a PURPOSE of not making people feel like their forum was scammy. That it was a place for people to share ideas and their journey.

With threads like this, that could potentially just be one long con to extract $75 x X dollars out of wide eyed entrepreneurs that have gone unverified for 3 years...(because the donation amounts to the charity were also not verified).

I feel scammed. Sorry, but I do.

And that doesn't seem in line with the purpose of this forum (at least as i understood it).
 
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csalvato

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You need to start your own thread. I don't think hijacking this one adds value to the forum.
I'm terribly sorry you disagree with me on where this content belongs. But it needs to exist. Here actually seems like the best place, since someone like me (Which is apparently a lot of people), would prefer to see all the info in context.

And if not, the mods can move it. Several of them have seen it. They could have reprimanded or banned me. Instead, they seem to think it's just fine for me to continue posting.

Maybe to you, the full value of this thread still exists if the whole thing is a 3 year lie. I guess that's a perspective I will never be able to appreciate. While there is value to me, it's only about a 1/10th of what it was.
 

csalvato

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Food for thought...

What do you think would happen to Pat Flynn if he suddenly told everyone that all the photos he posted, the revenues he posted, the progress he posted, his income reports...everything...was completely fabricated?

You think they would say, "Nice parable bro!" ?
 

MJ DeMarco

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He had a PURPOSE of not making people feel like their forum was scammy.
It was scammy because everyone was selling everyone something, an MLM scheme, an affiliate program, some eBook. No one was doing anything real.

In the end, I can't vet everyone here. And forums will have posers, stealers, liars, and con artists. Heck, every 6 months at the Lambo forum some moron always shows up claiming to own 3 Lambos, 2 Mercedes, blah blah, and they eventually get exposed. And since we're on the topic of cars, just because someone drives a Ferarri or a Bentley or anything doesn't make them credible. In fact, the greatest financial scams of the world use such a trick "Oh, he drives a Mercedes, he must be legit." This statement and caveat is not to insinuate anything is going on in this thread or with Jack, but just to never let your guard down. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. And just because no one voices that concern, doesn't mean you're alone as it could just be pluralistic ignorance. There are many folks on this board I hold suspicions on, and unfortunately, suspicion is not enough to do anything. Nonetheless, the last person that I discovered (and proved) was "selling" mentorships, among other things, (and obviously not motivated from the kindness of his heart) was promptly removed. The mods and I have no hesitation on removing people from the board when it is clear they are up to no good. And unlike The Baltimore Ravens or the Minnesota Vikings who may feel the need to "hang on" to someone because of their cult following, despite their transgressions, I don't give a F*ck.

In the end you have a choice: Simply ignore what has been presented. Use the ignore feature. And furthermore accept what you feel is credible by your standard of what makes someone credible.
 

Wuz

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"You think they would say, "Nice parable bro!" ?"

if i apply what he said and i get results, he could even tell me that his advice was totally made up from his imagination. I would still have the results in my pocket.

If you follow a person for too much time without applying and verifying if what he/she said have some kind of sense, you re the only one to blame.
 

csalvato

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if i apply what he said and i get results, he could even tell me that his advice was totally made up from his imagination. I would still have the results in my pocket.
Yeah, the bad results are the ones I am worried about. Those are the worst ones in your pocket.

In the end you have a choice: Simply ignore what has been presented. Use the ignore feature. And furthermore accept what you feel is credible by your standard of what makes someone credible.
Good point. Will do. I will take that as your polite way of telling me to stop, as well, and will respect that.
 

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It was scammy because everyone was selling everyone something, an MLM scheme, an affiliate program, some eBook. No one was doing anything real.

In the end, I can't vet everyone here. And forums will have posers, stealers, liars, and con artists. Heck, every 6 months at the Lambo forum some moron always shows up claiming to own 3 Lambos, 2 Mercedes, blah blah, and they eventually get exposed. And since we're on the topic of cars, just because someone drives a Ferarri or a Bentley or anything doesn't make them credible. In fact, the greatest financial scams of the world use such a trick "Oh, he drives a Mercedes, he must be legit." This statement and caveat is not to insinuate anything is going on in this thread or with Jack, but just to never let your guard down. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. And just because no one voices that concern, doesn't mean you're alone as it could just be pluralistic ignorance. There are many folks on this board I hold suspicions on, and unfortunately, suspicion is not enough to do anything. Nonetheless, the last person that I discovered (and proved) was "selling" mentorships, among other things, (and obviously not motivated from the kindness of his heart) was promptly removed. The mods and I have no hesitation on removing people from the board when it is clear they are up to no good. And unlike The Baltimore Ravens or the Minnesota Vikings who may feel the need to "hang on" to someone because of their cult following, despite their transgressions, I don't give a F*ck.

In the end you have a choice: Simply ignore what has been presented. Use the ignore feature. And furthermore accept what you feel is credible by your standard of what makes someone credible.
p.s. the cards still suck. playoff implosion coming soon.

carry on.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I will take that as your polite way of telling me to stop
I think you've made your point clear, and our points equally that due diligence is not something to ignore, nor is your gut. I just don't want this to turn into a witch-hunt. If there are shenanigans going on, it usually gets exposed and recirculated through the vine. Again, truth survives investigation.
 

Wuz

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Yeah, the bad results are the ones I am worried about. Those are the worst ones in your pocket.



Good point. Will do. I will take that as your polite way of telling me to stop, as well, and will respect that.
bad results happen from time to time independently of the source. If someone tells you to borrow 100.000 to have result x, you re being unprudent in doing it so.

Take 1000 and do it in small scale. Then you decide if it is good advice or not.
 

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