Curious about who here achieved Financial Freedom

[Ronnie Bryan]

Still a work in progress... But hit goal 1 get out of poverty and goal 2 is near complete. Eliminate debt still have some college student loans I am whittling down. I had a college professor help me go from less than minimum wage to earning $35,000 a year where I am at today! Working on my discipline for tracking pennies and learning about investing from what I can read and humble myself to ask others. What I would consider a milestone accomplishment, but the road is still long. I am just grateful my family is not begging for scraps or wondering where they will sleep or what they will eat. It is important to be humble and grateful and not lose sight of the "why" you do what you do.

 

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[Kirsov]

So how do we define financial freedom here?

For me, I define financial freedom as being able to do whatever you want to do without money being a problem. It is when you don't have to deprive yourself from anything just for the sake of money. It is when you can stop working if you want to and still have enough money to live your lifetime. If you are obligated to work despite though your expenses<income, I don't define that as financial freedom because you still isn't free.

Briefly: Can you do whatever you want without money being a problem? If yes, you achieved financial freedom.
If no, you didn't reach financial freedom yet.

That's how I define Financial Freedom.

 

[Kirsov]

Still a work in progress... But hit goal 1 get out of poverty and goal 2 is near complete. Eliminate debt still have some college student loans I am whittling down. I had a college professor help me go from less than minimum wage to earning $35,000 a year where I am at today! Working on my discipline for tracking pennies and learning about investing from what I can read and humble myself to ask others. What I would consider a milestone accomplishment, but the road is still long. I am just grateful my family is not begging for scraps or wondering where they will sleep or what they will eat. It is important to be humble and grateful and not lose sight of the "why" you do what you do.

Keep fighting for the wins. You will eventually reach your destination. Just like you achieved your first goal of getting out of poverty, you'll eventually reach the others too, given that you keep putting great efforts in what you do.

While you are learning about investing, in the meantime, try to see what value you can provide to society. What does people hate in your region and wish there was? Find a need.

Respect CENTS, create a productocracy and you'll eventually strike gold.

Keep crushing it!

 

[biophase]

Briefly: Can you do whatever you want without money being a problem? If yes, you achieved financial freedom.
If no, you didn't reach financial freedom yet.

That's how I define Financial Freedom.

That is still a very broad definition. Do whatever you want can mean, I want to go on 2 vacations a year or I want to travel 6 months out of the year and stay in luxury hotels and airbnb the whole time.

There's regular people financial freedom and there's rich people financial freedom. I can't charter a private jet wherever I want to go. But I can easily buy a plane ticket wherever and whenever I want.

 

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[Kirsov]

That is still a very broad definition. Do whatever you want can mean, I want to go on 2 vacations a year or I want to travel 6 months out of the year and stay in luxury hotels and airbnb the whole time.

There's regular people financial freedom and there's rich people financial freedom. I can't charter a private jet wherever I want to go. But I can easily buy a plane ticket wherever and whenever I want.

I see. I'm talking about regular people financial freedom then.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I’d define financial freedom as passive income paying all necessary expenses at some base level - it varies for each person but it’s not luxury. Beyond that would be considered beyond financial freedom.

I’m not there yet. However if I sold everything and reinvested, I could probably be there right now, though it would be meager...

That’s what business is for: going above and beyond mere passive investing.

 

[Antifragile]

It is a normal thing for me to do. I am that kind of person who goes directly to the point, even if I just met you seconds ago. Many people are surprised to how direct I am (in real life), in a good way.

Maybe normal for you, but it’s not about you. Asking someone for their time/knowledge/money whatever is about them, not you.

Thanks for sharing. My definition of financial freedom isn't about retiring, but about money not being a problem to do whatever you want to do in life.

I understand. And what I’m trying to say is that there was a time when I thought I knew that number. I’ve blown past my old dreams only to create bigger new dreams.

Put it another way “do whatever you want to do in life” changes. Today I want to develop large scale communities. That means I need to add more staff at my office, I also need a lot more capital etc. I’m not interested in some “freedom” that would mean me doing nothing all day. Call it whatever you want.

Do you have a post about your real estate and your coaster ride? I am interested to see how you made it.

It’s still a roller coaster and I don’t share specifics. My employees, investors, competitors may well be here. I’ll just say that every RE developer is taking massive risks. It never stops being a roller coaster.

But I did do a radio show with @Kak (maybe listen to the episode) and I have a RE AMA thread, link in my signature.

 

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[Kirsov]

But I did do a radio show with @Kak (maybe listen to the episode) and I have a RE AMA thread, link in my signature

I can't view your profile to find the link, it says that there are only specific persons that you enabled to.

What is the episode you did on Kyle Keegan Radio Show called?

Btw, I just found Andy Black on the show too.

 

[Two Dog]

So when the OP asks about financial freedom, is the number $10,000 a month coming in from your business, or is it $10M that generates $10,000 a month in return. There is a huge difference between the two.

Actually, I don't see any real difference between the two. A business is something that generates cashflow. Hopefully.

Someone's $10M apartment building throwing off $10K monthly (yes, the numbers don't make sense but humor me. Maybe they overpaid in a bidding war or discovered it was built over a nuclear dump site and the tenants ran off) isn't any different than the Dollar General throwing off $10K monthly to me. I think of it more in terms of inbound dollars vs. outbound time. If the property management company and general manager both call with questions for an hour each month, it seems exactly the same.

Are you saying there's an inherent difference or just assuming the biz takes up more personal time?

 

[Antifragile]

Actually, I don't see any real difference between the two. A business is something that generates cashflow. Hopefully.

Someone's $10M apartment building throwing off $10K monthly (yes, the numbers don't make sense but humor me. Maybe they overpaid in a bidding war or discovered it was built over a nuclear dump site and the tenants ran off) isn't any different than the Dollar General throwing off $10K monthly to me. I think of it more in terms of inbound dollars vs. outbound time. If the property management company and general manager both call with questions for an hour each month, it seems exactly the same.

Are you saying there's an inherent difference or just assuming the biz takes up more personal time?

The difference is one has net worth of $10m. And the other is presumably an illiquid business, giving you profits > personal expenses. Meaning, your business makes you more than you spend.

To me, without net worth; there is no “financial freedom”. I separate income from net worth. Wealth is based on net worth.

 

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[biophase]

Actually, I don't see any real difference between the two. A business is something that generates cashflow. Hopefully.

Someone's $10M apartment building throwing off $10K monthly (yes, the numbers don't make sense but humor me. Maybe they overpaid in a bidding war or discovered it was built over a nuclear dump site and the tenants ran off) isn't any different than the Dollar General throwing off $10K monthly to me. I think of it more in terms of inbound dollars vs. outbound time. If the property management company and general manager both call with questions for an hour each month, it seems exactly the same.

Are you saying there's an inherent difference or just assuming the biz takes up more personal time?

Yes, take these two people:

Person number one has a business making $10k a month, $120k a year semi-passive. He can travel the world because someone else is running your business. However, because his business is relatively young, he has managed to save only $100k in the bank and has a mortgage on his $300k house. He is somewhat financially free, but NOT retired.

Even after 5 more years, he may have only saved $500k. He is NOT retired. His business is worth 4x, that's another $480k. So on paper he is worth $1M.

He is still not retired. Financially free for 5 years, but not retirement financially free.

The second person is worth $10M. He's getting a paltry return of 1.2% in bonds or some safe savings. His income is $10k a month. However, this person is retirement financially free.

Here is the biggest difference for me.

When I was making $10k a month in 2011, I spent maybe $5k of it on living and invested the remaining $5k into either my business or real estate. It would have been irresponsible to spend the entire $10k on living and lavish expenses. I needed to keep investing to build my net worth.

However now, because I feel that I am truly financially free, I can spend $10k on whatever I want and not even attempt to save any of it.

That's the difference between having a net worth backing up your cashflow.

 

[Roli]

Hi there,

I want to know who here achieved financial freedom. How long did it take? What value did you add to society? What knowledge brought you there? How hard was the start-up phase? What are your advices to people fighting for financial freedom? Were you alone during that journey? Is there anybody who helped you beside authors? What was your work environment like? Were you regularly travelling from country to country for variety? With how much money did you start up and how much did the execution cost? How was the execution like? Did you ever have "sucidal thoughts" given on how hard that is? How did you deal with that?

Describe briefly the process from acquiring the knowledge to build an idea for a productocracy, to taking initiation, executing and arriving at financial freedom.

I've read the replies and your answers to this thread, and I must say I'm very impressed with your attitude, I feel you have the right mindset, you just need a little push in the right direction.

So a few humble suggestions.

You say that you live in Mauritius, which as far as I'm aware is a beautiful tourist destination. You also say you drive a taxi and are a good salesman.

So taking all of that info, I suggest you find something that is cheap that tourists want. So for instance a shell necklace, then you have ready made customers who come into your cab. You are friendly and a good salesman, so even if you just leave them hanging somewhere prominently in your cab you'll sell them.

You can also use your connections to set up deals with bars, restaurants, nightclubs, etc. on the island, whereby they give you some kind of bonus/cut for customers you bring to them.

Perhaps also you can talk to people who have nice homes and don't rent them out yet, then you set up a website or even just tag on Air BnB and start renting out holiday homes, each time taking a 10-15% (or more) cut.

Remember, it's just about looking around you and identifying common problems that people face, whether those people are residents or tourists, if you find a good problem to solve, you'll make money.

I have seen many new people on this forum come and ask questions, get answers they don't like and never post again. However with you, I have a good feeling.

Oh, and to answer your question, no, I haven't achieved financial freedom (yet), however I'm living a very happy life with my wife, child and friends. I am healthy and so are my family and no amount of money can replace those things.

Good luck, keep asking questions, keep seeking answers.

 

[Kirsov]

So taking all of that info, I suggest you find something that is cheap that tourists want. So for instance a shell necklace, then you have ready made customers who come into your cab. You are friendly and a good salesman, so even if you just leave them hanging somewhere prominently in your cab you'll sell them

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

I never thought about selling things to them. I always brought them to stored to buy souvenirs and local things made for tourist. You've just opened another way for me. I regularly ask tourists what they wished were better there and the most common answer is that they didn't get the chance to have a sugarcane drink. No hotels do sell that, neither do local stores, neither it is available in supermarkets. I thought about making up a brand that do sell this thing but I never made a move on it. Why? Because I've talked to a small audience only. For it to really work, it has to be something the market want. It may have been that majority of the tourists I was with wanted sugarcane drinks but the others who I wasn't with didn't really care.

You can also use your connections to set up deals with bars, restaurants, nightclubs, etc. on the island, whereby they give you some kind of bonus/cut for customers you bring to them.

About that, I tried, and sadly it was in vain. They said that they are going not going to pay me any kind of bonus, they didn't really care. I think that it's because I'm not big enough.

Perhaps also you can talk to people who have nice homes and don't rent them out yet, then you set up a website or even just tag on Air BnB and start renting out holiday homes, each time taking a 10-15% (or more) cut.

I like that idea, thanks. I am going to try that out and see how it goes.

Remember, it's just about looking around you and identifying common problems that people face, whether those people are residents or tourists, if you find a good problem to solve, you'll make money.

Yes, whenever I talk to people, I try to listen to the "market mind." But, I don't have any intention of starting up an enterprise here in my country. I may try to develop my entrepreneurship skills here but I will set up set up my business abroad as I hate living here.

I have seen many new people on this forum come and ask questions, get answers they don't like and never post again. However with you, I have a good feeling

Thanks. I have the intetion of not posting for a while though. I frequently get away from my phone for a long period. Basically, I shut down everything and it's just me and work. I get lazy when I use my phone: text messages, calls, etc. I become very distracted as such. Well, I will still be using the phone for notes and things, but, it will always be on airplane mode with no wi-fi. Then, after I notice that I made a significant progress, I will reward myself with 1-2weeks of "leisure".

Oh, and to answer your question, no, I haven't achieved financial freedom (yet), however I'm living a very happy life with my wife, child and friends. I am healthy and so are my family and no amount of money can replace those things.

What do you do for a living? I am happy to hear that you are healthy and living wonderfully with your family, kind of a rare thing these days. Where are you from?

Good luck, keep asking questions, keep seeking answers.

Thanks! Good luck to you too! Well, I won't really say luck. Good "probability"

 

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[Two Dog]

Yes, take these two people:

Person number one has a business making $10k a month, $120k a year semi-passive. He can travel the world because someone else is running your business. However, because his business is relatively young, he has managed to save only $100k in the bank and has a mortgage on his $300k house. He is somewhat financially free, but NOT retired.

Even after 5 more years, he may have only saved $500k. He is NOT retired. His business is worth 4x, that's another $480k. So on paper he is worth $1M.

He is still not retired. Financially free for 5 years, but not retirement financially free.

Sure, that's straightforward enough. Also pretty accurately describes my situation over the past few years.

Just throw in a touch of real estate. I haven't completely come around to valuing net worth more than cashflow though. There's too many people that are wealthy on paper, but have so little cashflow that their hands are still tied. Sure, money is fungible and it's possible to convert between the two. It just tends to be a bad idea with illiquid investments, collateralized loans, etc.

I prefer the idea of owning a business that throws out $100K monthly cashflow (which is far in excess of our own spending) with the overage being dumped into largely illiquid long-term capital investments like stocks, bond, real estate and private equity investments. As I'm writing this, I think the underlying problem is my deep skepticism that conservative investments will continually pay out for a lifetime. Just like I'm surprisingly pretty skeptical that our life insurance policies will actually pay out to the kids. There's really no easy fix for that perspective except more experience.

Was there a point in your net worth where dumping everything into a low-risk income stream made sense?

 

[Antifragile]

Sure, that's straightforward enough. Also pretty accurately describes my situation over the past few years.

Just throw in a touch of real estate. I haven't completely come around to valuing net worth more than cashflow though. There's too many people that are wealthy on paper, but have so little cashflow that their hands are still tied. Sure, money is fungible and it's possible to convert between the two. It just tends to be a bad idea with illiquid investments, collateralized loans, etc.

I prefer the idea of owning a business that throws out $100K monthly cashflow (which is far in excess of our own spending) with the overage being dumped into largely illiquid long-term capital investments like stocks, bond, real estate and private equity investments. As I'm writing this, I think the underlying problem is my deep skepticism that conservative investments will continually pay out for a lifetime. Just like I'm actually pretty skeptical that our life insurance policies will actually pay out to the kids. There's really no easy fix for that perspective except more experience.

Was there a point in your net worth where dumping everything into a low-risk income stream made sense?

I’m curious, does it have to be either or? Why is there this talk about financial freedom as becoming passive? In reality, business can be a very engaging place to spend time and continue growing (personally and financially). I think I talked with @Kak a few times about this.

 

[Two Dog]

Briefly: Can you do whatever you want without money being a problem? If yes, you achieved financial freedom.
If no, you didn't reach financial freedom yet.

That's one definition. Another is Buckminster Fuller's (assuming it was actually him) where your monthly cashflow exceeds your monthly spending. Another is net worth. I know people who think FF belong to each of those categories. The problem with your definition (to my mind) is there is always something that can't be purchased regardless of your wealth. Jeff Bezon and Elon Musk are monumentally rich individuals in the history of mankind, but the list of things that neither of them can ever own is literally endless.

My take for the last few years is simply that FF means money thoughts don't cause you any stress.

You don't worry about buying things day to day, you don't worry about running out, you don't worry about giving it away to friends, family, charities, whomever. You just live your life. One of the saddest things imaginable is someone who's worth millions who's still banging away because they're terrified it will not last or will be taken away or God only knows what. No amount of money is going to give them peace or FF by my definition. At the other end of the spectrum are cloistered monks who are endlessly content without a dollar to their name who would probably qualify.

That's why I haven't thought FF can be measured solely in dollars for a very long time.

 

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[Kirsov]

I’m curious, does it have to be either or? Why is there this talk about financial freedom as becoming passive? In reality, business can be a very engaging place to spend time and continue growing (personally and financially). I think I talked with @Kak a few times about this.

Because some people are interested in other things rather than business. For example, if you are someone who wants to find another way of providing energy to the world while causing the least pollution possible, your income have to be passive so that you can solely focus on your work. If you still have to focus on your business while it is not something you want to focus on, I consider that as not being financially free yet.

 

[Kirsov]

My take for the last few years is simply that FF means money thoughts don't cause you any stress.

You don't worry about buying things day to day, you don't worry about running out, you don't worry about giving it away to friends, family, charities, whomever. You just live your life.

Exactly the life I want to live and consider FF.

One of the saddest things imaginable is someone who's worth millions who's still banging away because they're terrified it will not last or will be taken away or God only knows what. No amount of money is going to give them peace or FF by my definition.

Yes that's true. FF contributes to happiness but there are also other factors needed for happiness and if the others are missing, that person can't really be happy no matter how rich he is.

 

[biophase]

Sure, that's straightforward enough. Also pretty accurately describes my situation over the past few years.

Just throw in a touch of real estate. I haven't completely come around to valuing net worth more than cashflow though. There's too many people that are wealthy on paper, but have so little cashflow that their hands are still tied. Sure, money is fungible and it's possible to convert between the two. It just tends to be a bad idea with illiquid investments, collateralized loans, etc.

I prefer the idea of owning a business that throws out $100K monthly cashflow (which is far in excess of our own spending) with the overage being dumped into largely illiquid long-term capital investments like stocks, bond, real estate and private equity investments. As I'm writing this, I think the underlying problem is my deep skepticism that conservative investments will continually pay out for a lifetime. Just like I'm surprisingly pretty skeptical that our life insurance policies will actually pay out to the kids. There's really no easy fix for that perspective except more experience.

Was there a point in your net worth where dumping everything into a low-risk income stream made sense?

Aren’t we saying the same thing? You mentioned making $100,000 a month and then dumping the overage into some form of investment vehicle.

So you are taking part of your monthly cash flow and using it to increase your net worth. So you are valuing your net worth.

But during this timeframe, you aren’t technically financially free. Because if you were you would not need to take part of your monthly cash flow to increase your net worth. But at some point in the future, you look will be worth so much that when you look at that $100,000 a month coming in, you will think, do I really need to save any of this money or can I spend it all and still be OK?

 

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[Antifragile]

someone who wants to find another way of providing energy to the world while causing the least pollution possible

why is this not a business?

Any time you provide value to the world, you’ll have financial rewards.

 

[MTF]

why is this not a business?

Any time you provide value to the world, you’ll have financial rewards.

A lot of non-profits provide value to the world but they don't get financial rewards for it.

Like a friend who's in reforestation says, there's no money in saving the world.

He plants fast-growing Miyawaki forests to provide habitat and/or corridors to vulnerable species.

Nobody pays him for that (sponsors support the projects, it's not his financial reward).

Many non-profits do more good than shitty call center companies but nobody cares.

 

[Antifragile]

A lot of non-profits provide value to the world but they don't get financial rewards for it.

Like a friend who's in reforestation says, there's no money in saving the world.

I get that. My point was that it seems backwards to me to think “ooh… I’ll make $19M to stop and do the thing I actually love after”. It’s likely you’ll fail and always wish for the path not taken.

On the other hand, I’d you are thinking of renewable and green energy work, that shit is not only a big deal these days, it also pays well! Why not start with doing what you love as a business?

 

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[MTF]

Why not start with doing what you love as a business?

Watch out for @MJ DeMarco. He's probably already out there somewhere in the shadows hiding with a dagger to sink in your belly when you aren't looking.

 

[Andy Black]

He plants fast-growing Miyawaki forests to provide habitat and/or corridors to vulnerable species.

Nobody pays him for that (sponsors support the projects, it's not his financial reward).

Can he turn a profit doing this and reinvest it back into planting even more trees?

I like to think of business as "Help people. Get paid. Help more people." If you get paid to help people then you can reinvest it back into helping even more people.

In the case above: "Do good to the world. Get paid. Do even more good to the world."

This is where business can be a great vehicle to help more people and add more value.

Many non-profits do more good than shitty call center companies but nobody cares.

Maybe they'd do better if they could get more people to care. It's like having a good product and making it hard for people to share/buy/etc.

Google gives eligible charities a Google Ads grant of up to $10k/mth spend. Not enough charities avail of this and other free resources.

 

[Kirsov]

On the other hand, I’d you are thinking of renewable and green energy work, that shit is not only a big deal these days, it also pays well! Why not start with doing what you love as a business?

Foe me, that's because of the process. It costs a tremondous amount of knowledge and money to work on such big things. In the meantime, who is going to finance my family and myself? Nobody. I will still be depriving myself for years(decades).

It may bring in huge profit at the end but it may also be a big failure.

Like a friend who's in reforestation says, there's no money in saving the world.

He plants fast-growing Miyawaki forests to provide habitat and/or corridors to vulnerable species.

Nobody pays him for that (sponsors support the projects, it's not his financial reward).

Let's say it costs more to consume a "pollution-free" source of energy than normal sources of energy. Would majority of the world want to pay more for the same amount of energy? I doubt that, that's not really in their self-interest. I would be spending more money to sustain the project while the money received will be much less than what I spend, hence, profit will be none and soon, I'm dead.

I'll take Elon Musk as an example. He was fascinated with space things since he was very young, but, he co-founded paypal as his first company. Only later, after making billions, he launched SpaceX. If he fails, he still have financial freedom whereas if he started SpaceX in the beginning, I doubt he would still be financially free if he failed and I doubt he would even be able to start the company, given a huge amount of money is required.

Take Jeff Bezos an another example. He founded Amazon to trade books in the beginning. Did he love trading books? No. It was just a need he was solving.

I will take MJ as an example also. He loves writing books. Did he write books in the begininng of his career? Nop. He solved needs until he reached financial freedom. Only then, he started to do what he love and turned into an author.

 

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[MTF]

Can he turn a profit doing this and reinvest it back into planting even more trees?

I like to think of business as "Help people. Get paid. Help more people." If you get paid to help people then you can reinvest it back into helping even more people.

In the case above: "Do good to the world. Get paid. Do even more good to the world."

This is where business can be a great vehicle to help more people and add more value.

If his "customers" are animals and not humans, it's really hard to follow this "help people" philosophy. Because it's literally for animals, not humans.

Nature stewardship is hard because the point is to reforest an area and leave it alone for the animals to live, not for the humans to visit and turn it into an amusement park. The only "reward" humans get is feeling like they're for once caring for the planet instead of cutting everything up for profit.

 

[Andy Black]

If his "customers" are animals and not humans, it's really hard to follow this "help people" philosophy. Because it's literally for animals, not humans.

Nature stewardship is hard because the point is to reforest an area and leave it alone for the animals to live, not for the humans to visit and turn it into an amusement park. The only "reward" humans get is feeling like they're for once caring for the planet instead of cutting everything up for profit.

Swap "help people" with something else?

"Plant trees. Get paid. Plant more trees." or whatever.

If we can create that virtuous circle of "Do X. Get paid. Do more X." ... then we can scale up.

 

[MTF]

Swap "help people" with something else?

"Plant trees. Get paid. Plant more trees." or whatever.

If we can create that virtuous circle of "Do X. Get paid. Do more X." ... then we can scale up.

I can see this working as a separate business that donates a portion of the profits to the non-profit arm. The non-profit in itself IMO can't really be run as a regular business.

The only exception would be to buy a huge piece of land, reforest it, and then turn build a visitor center and stuff like that but that's not always possible (the friend usually plants tiny forests that connect larger swaths of public land).

I like social impact businesses but as @Altaff pointed out, it usually takes way longer to make them work. Meanwhile, if your family is starving, that's no fun. Better start with a lucrative business and once it lets you retire then reinvest and refocus on what changes the world. Save yourself first before you can effectively save others.

 

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[Kak]

there's no money in saving the world.

BS

 

[Kak]

I’m going to recommend the autobiography of Henry Ford.

That was a man with a mission. His mission and his livelihood lined up. It wasn’t long before his livelihood was a distant consideration. He wasn’t building cars just to go do something else later. He was interested in totally changing the mobility of the world.

You can’t read that book and determine Henry Ford wasted his life building instead of enjoying himself. He spent his life absolutely slaying his giant.