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thechosen1

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the ability to bootstrap yourself into the 1%.

Everything MJ said is spot on! Exactly what I was trying to say. I especially like this quote about being able to bootstrap your way into the 1%.

In a free society with capitalism and a free market, there is no “upper class” or “lower class,” everyone can move up and down! As the pendulum swings away from the free market, you see society more entrenched. People aren’t upwardly mobile. Your position is more SCRIPTED than ever before - it’s the law! That’s what happens the more you apply socialism. It’s a sliding scale - you don’t really notice it until it’s too late.

It is more like neo-feudalism is coming to the U.S.

Policies are rigged against high middle income and small business kind of wealth profile, bearing with high minimum wage, high regulatory cost (lack of economies of scale), and high tax (no access to tax havens).

On another hand we have multi-billionaires on news headline, running listed companies that never made a profit, paying at a lower tax rate using hq set up in Ireland and outsourcing most of the labor oversea.
exactly. Keep in mind, a “small” business can have sales as high as $50 million.

The big companies are over a trillion. That’s more than the GDP of most countries.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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Policies are rigged against high middle income and small business kind of wealth profile, bearing with high minimum wage, high regulatory cost (lack of economies of scale), and high tax (no access to tax havens).

On another hand we have multi-billionaires on news headline, running listed companies that never made a profit, paying at a lower tax rate using hq set up in Ireland and outsourcing most of the labor oversea.

Bingo. Impressive take, considering you don't even live here.

To give you an example, Arizona voters just passed a ballot measure that increased my state taxes by 77%. You read that right... a whopping 77%. And most small business owners like me will take the hit, at least, until I move out of Arizona next year and give this damn state NOTHING. They did this during COVID, a time when small businesses everywhere are struggling. Did it matter? Nope!

Blame the voters? No, I blame the corporate bureaucracies/labor unions and out-of-state partisans who were able to finagle the measure on the ballot. Once it got there -- and in the manner in which it was worded, I knew my time in Arizona was over.

It's as @Kak likes to soapbox about... these entrepreneurs are capitalists until they become billionaires, then they fund politicians, lobbyists, and their little pet NGO's and super-pacs ... then they become socialists so they can legally protect, regulate, and then, expand their sandbox.
 

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It's as @Kak likes to soapbox about... these entrepreneurs are capitalists until they become billionaires and fund their little pet NGO's and super-pacs ... then they become socialists so they can protect, and then, expand their sandbox.
Yep. People need to ask themselves why Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates all like Elizabeth Warren's ideas.
 

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It's as @Kak likes to soapbox about... these entrepreneurs are capitalists until they become billionaires, then they fund politicians, lobbyists, and their little pet NGO's and super-pacs ... then they become socialists so they can legally protect, regulate, and then, expand their sandbox.

I've always internalized this as a motivation to get to the point where I'm in that chair and have the freedom/capabilities they have. Especially since all of those examples came from modest means, so it should be possible.

In retrospect, that's a shitty motivation/driver.

I think most of us on this forum has experienced firsthand what you've also experienced. I always viewed it as the curse of being-successful-but-not-being-successful-enough.

I can see everyone's points how it's really just a symptom of a deeply broken model.
 

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The goal appears to have monopolistic capitalism on one hand and socialism on the other. With resources being centralized and the supply and demand curve shamelessly manipulated.

That’s what the whole “non-essential” BS was all about. A blatant manipulation of the supply and demand curve. The supply curve which is scarce resources converted into goods and services skewed to monopolistic entities and the demand curve which is scarce money centralized by a manipulated currency overseen by a central bank.

This is a tough question to answer because you almost have to step outside the confines of the “game” entirely.

At the end I’m afraid we have no other choice but to take back control of our currency. We have to start by taking back at least one of the curves of the supply and demand model. Blockchain will be the future. No more socialism and giving Wall Street a consoling pat on back on the back while Main Street gets the middle finger.
 

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The goal appears to have monopolistic capitalism on one hand and socialism on the other.

It's as @Kak likes to soapbox about... these entrepreneurs are capitalists until they become billionaires, then they fund politicians, lobbyists, and their little pet NGO's and super-pacs ... then they become socialists so they can legally protect, regulate, and then, expand their sandbox.

To play devil's advocate, what choice to the billionaires really have once their businesses/wealth gets to a certain point?

If they pull a Hank Reardon and pretend that politics, lobbying, etc. don't matter, they position themselves terribly. Government will break them up or regulate them to an extent that will kill them and everything they worked for.

For example, let's take Uber.

They had to overcome massive regulatory hurdles (and flat out ignore many) just to get a foothold.

And, since then, gov't has been gunning for them brutally, even going so far as to basically make 1099 contracting illegal in the state of CA, with the same sort of legislation being promised by Biden.

From their perspective, what's the right move? To do nothing and have all their work and investment dollars be obliterated by government big wigs and socialists? Or to hire lobbyists to fight the chaos of government the best they can, with the only means they have?

While I hate the latter option, I don't think they really have a choice. Do they?
 

thechosen1

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To play devil's advocate, what choice to the billionaires really have once their businesses/wealth gets to a certain point?

If they pull a Hank Reardon and pretend that politics, lobbying, etc. don't matter, they position themselves terribly. Government will break them up or regulate them to an extent that will kill them and everything they worked for.

For example, let's take Uber.

They had to overcome massive regulatory hurdles (and flat out ignore many) just to get a foothold.

And, since then, gov't has been gunning for them brutally, even going so far as to basically make 1099 contracting illegal in the state of CA, with the same sort of legislation being promised by Biden.

From their perspective, what's the right move? To do nothing and have all their work and investment dollars be obliterated by government big wigs and socialists? Or to hire lobbyists to fight the chaos of government the best they can, with the only means they have?

While I hate the latter option, I don't think they really have a choice. Do they?

As to the Hank Rearden point, that’s what a lot of people liked about Trump.

He’s a billionaire, but he’s nothing like Jack Dorsey or Zuckerberg. He pretty much sticks to his guns and he does in fact have real opinions (and he shares them, often to his detriment).

edit: he’s also been very open about how the political game is played. He tells everyone that he donated to both parties because you have to. If you’ve read Atlas Shrugged, you’re familiar with the idea of requiring a “man in Washington” on behalf of your company. It’s a big problem.

But for Big Tech, they’re way closer to BEING the government than anything else.
 
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csalvato

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As to the Hank Rearden point, that’s what a lot of people liked about Trump.
If you don't think Trump was manipulating politicians for decades before his run for office, you may want to research the man a bit more.

His big coming up was taking over his father's respectable (but much smaller) real estate business, and successfully navigating Mafia, NYC politics and big banks to build an empire.

He's a master player of the game. Not above it, imo.

(EDIT: that said, I do know that's the public perception he's crafted for himself, and a lot of people believe it's true)
 

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From their perspective, what's the right move? To do nothing and have all their work and investment dollars be obliterated by government big wigs and socialists? Or to hire lobbyists to fight the chaos of government the best they can, with the only means they have?

Absolutely! You are 100% right. So when the socialistic tendencies of the government become your biggest threat as a company you have no choice but to do something about it. Hell, a long time ago I recognized the advantages to having the government as a customer and working with the most powerful force on earth.

I provide value to a customer. Even if that customer happens to be the government, they win and I win.

But yes, I uniquely understand that position as someone that literally has a lobbying team. They probably see the writing on the wall and just praise the bad idea. I won't sell my soul to the demise of prosperous economics though.

What I am starting to realize though is that no one can string capitalist arguments together anymore. It is now virtue signaling to be a socialist. The true virtue of socialism is empty though and the TRUE and REAL virtue of capitalism and value are never stuck up for. We all are acutely aware of how popular virtue signaling is right now. I think that might also play a PR role for them as well. Gross.
 

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While I hate the latter option, I don't think they really have a choice. Do they?

The way I look at it is they became billionaires leveraging a monetary system and financial platform that has monopolistic qualities sanction by a government. Bill gates is a billionaire because a $5 stock can go to $200 while issuing bonds at 0.25% interest. I can imagine it’s a lot harder if free market forces are at play.
 

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Bill gates is a billionaire because a $5 stock can go to $200 while issuing bonds at 0.25% interest. I
I think I don't understand the implications of this. Mind elaborating?
 

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socaldude

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I think I don't understand the implications of this. Mind elaborating?

A good example is our stock market today. Near all time highs, even higher than pre-Covid. I sat at my desk at 5:30am waiting for the jobs and GDP numbers to come out. They weren’t all that great. Did the market give a crap? Lol no. Why because a lot of these companies in the indeces make money even if I’m at home broke and unemployed thanks to the monopolistic properties of the companies. Lol people still gonna buy the iPhone 15 thanks to more stimulus and money printing lol.
 
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Near the beginning of The Millionaire Fastlane, @MJ DeMarco stated several assumptions that need to be true for one to benefit from the book and to join the Fastlane. One assumption was living in a free, democratic society. As societies around the world become more totalitarian, this assumption becomes less true for more people.

“C” is for “control.” The loss of control has hurt many fastlane businesses. For example, if you own a chain of restaurants, and some hypocritical governor shuts down all restaurant activity for several weeks straight, then you will take a hit.

How does one anticipate future losses of control ahead of time?

Can one even predict the next government edict that will cripple many businesses in the future?

Those questions are not easy to answer.

On the other hand, videoconferencing companies like Zoom have not only dodged the COVID lockdown bullet, but have thrived because of it.

At some street corners, I’ve seen tables where people sell coronavirus supplies: masks, hand sanitizer, gloves, and the like. They’ve also expanded to fad items like professional sports T-shirts. In that sense, they’re exercising control, given that the pandemic will eventually end.

Maybe we need to expand the definition of “control.” Yet, there’s a limit to how far we can expand it.
 

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But for Big Tech, they’re way closer to BEING the government than anything else.
That's why these companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook have partnerships working with the government that are beneficial both ways.

Look at Elon Musk, If/When he gets to Mars he will have control on what can go there, he could have control on setting up his own government there with his own rules etc.. So the government of course would either shut him down or he agrees to work with them. Government is able to go to space, and Elon Musk gets to setup his worldwide internet satellites etc..

Another thing is these businesses can do projects that the government can't due to public perception/jurisdiction or politics. Look at Amazon and there drones, they couldn't do it in USA so no problem they go to Canada and do testing there. Don't think the US Military isn't interested in what they are doing? Extrapolate this to all the different things these companies get into from data these companies gather the area's around the world they have access too etc.. to all the different tech, home camera's etc.. etc.. and can see why Bezo's is in meetings with heads of military defense etc..

I think this pandemic is showing how important the Need commandment is, from consumer side for a business and the government side.

One example is non of the large coffee chains have been ordered to shut down during this whole thing, I believe is along the same lines of keeping alcohol sales going. The government Needs to keep people somewhat happy so they deem access to Coffee as important as Alcohol. Can you imagine if they banned Coffee and Alcohol sales?

Another example is non of the large condo developers have been shut down, again the government needs those buildings to be made and the taxes they will bring.

Restaurants that have reacted and adjusted will be fine, McDonalds here went to Uber Eats before this pandemic and already had reduced staff with there instore kiosks.

Places like Best Buy have had a constant line up waiting to get in this whole pandemic.

People have needs and if they can't fill them the way they did before they are looking for ways to fill them differently now.
 

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We've done great!

No storefront so 0 mask rules, 0 government bullshit, 0 occupancy limits. = Control. (You can not possibly shut us down because our business is a lawn mower at someone else's house. What are you gonna do, take my lawn mower?)

Local so our competition is just other businesses nearby, very unlikely to be disrupted and the industry hasn't innovated in decades. Avoids the easy come easy go nature of online businesses.

Customers have tons of trouble finding even a mediocre competitor. We get most of our clients simply because their other provider stopped showing up. = Need.

Workers have been pretty good, considering they can't find a job anywhere else. I love recessions!

Our expenses are variable, since 90% of expenses are labor costs which can be scaled up or down according to demand, so our profit margin stays consistent at around 40% no matter what!

Regardless of us being considered essential or not, I couldn't give less of a f*ck! It's essential to me.

Unless the world's grass suddenly stops growing, I'll have a profitable business that pays for my life, now it just comes down to how big I want to make it.

I've said it 50 times this year already, I'm SO GLAD I don't have a storefront that the government can regulate. I won't talk about what I would've done if I was a restaurant owner during all of this shit and my governor shut down my business.
 

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We've done great!

No storefront so 0 mask rules, 0 government bullshit, 0 occupancy limits. = Control. (You can not possibly shut us down because our business is a lawn mower at someone else's house. What are you gonna do, take my lawn mower?)

Local so our competition is just other businesses nearby, very unlikely to be disrupted and the industry hasn't innovated in decades. Avoids the easy come easy go nature of online businesses.

Customers have tons of trouble finding even a mediocre competitor. We get most of our clients simply because their other provider stopped showing up. = Need.

Workers have been pretty good, considering they can't find a job anywhere else. I love recessions!

Our expenses are variable, since 90% of expenses are labor costs which can be scaled up or down according to demand, so our profit margin stays consistent at around 40% no matter what!

Regardless of us being considered essential or not, I couldn't give less of a f*ck! It's essential to me.

Unless the world's grass suddenly stops growing, I'll have a profitable business that pays for my life, now it just comes down to how big I want to make it.

I've said it 50 times this year already, I'm SO GLAD I don't have a storefront that the government can regulate. I won't talk about what I would've done if I was a restaurant owner during all of this shit and my governor shut down my business.
Your experience is pretty shocking to me.

Most people I know with service businesses like yours that rely on low paid, unskilled workers are struggling to keep their employees.

After all, it's hard to compete with free stimulus bonuses that are higher than normal wages.

No business is immune from socialism/communism. If you aren't feeling it, they just haven't come for you yet.
 

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I know it's a tangent from the main point of the thread, but in conversations that involve big tech, lobbying and socialism, I'm always surprised how little Benioff gets mentioned. Especially on a day when Salesforce made news (looking to acquire Slack).

 

Thoelt53

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Your experience is pretty shocking to me.

Most people I know with service businesses like yours that rely on low paid, unskilled workers are struggling to keep their employees.

After all, it's hard to compete with free stimulus bonuses that are higher than normal wages.

No business is immune from socialism/communism. If you aren't feeling it, they just haven't come for you yet.
This is the truth. And they WILL come for you.

The next year will be very telling for America. This is it, we’re going one way or the other. I’m afraid there is no middle ground, just look at what governments around the world are doing. That is THE pandemic.

How many people here know who Klaus Schwab is? I’m betting very few. He is the founder and president of the World Economic Forum. One needn’t look further than his “Great Reset” manifesto, and those whom he is in bed with to see what is going on.

All the money in the world isn’t enough for these leeches. They want total power, control and domination.

That kind of power doesn’t exist in a free market, therefor free market capitalism must be destroyed. Absolute power is only found in communist regimes.

We all have a front row seat to the show.

Will you spectate, or will you act?
 

Johnny boy

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Your experience is pretty shocking to me.

Most people I know with service businesses like yours that rely on low paid, unskilled workers are struggling to keep their employees.

After all, it's hard to compete with free stimulus bonuses that are higher than normal wages.

No business is immune from socialism/communism. If you aren't feeling it, they just haven't come for you yet.
There’s only been one stimulus check and tons of people don’t qualify for unemployment. They aren’t getting paid anything anywhere else.

I guess if they give a universal basic income I’d have to make an adjustment.

f*ck communism.
 

Thoelt53

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There’s only been one stimulus check and tons of people don’t qualify for unemployment. They aren’t getting paid anything anywhere else.

I guess if they give a universal basic income I’d have to make an adjustment.

f*ck communism.
It’s way worse than just UBI. Much, much worse.

View: https://youtu.be/Hx3DhoLFO4s


 

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There’s only been one stimulus check and tons of people don’t qualify for unemployment. They aren’t getting paid anything anywhere else.

I guess if they give a universal basic income I’d have to make an adjustment.

f*ck communism.

Aren’t you operating in Washington state?

There’s been much more than one stimulus check...


20145535-BA8C-4B0F-B5F8-8162D7B0ADCE.jpeg
Unskilled workers can pull unemployment + $1200 a month doing nothing. That’s more than people in that class normally make mowing lawns... or close enough it’s better to do nothing.

The people I know in Washington state with similar businesses to yours can’t get any new employees.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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Near the beginning of The Millionaire Fastlane, @MJ DeMarco stated several assumptions that need to be true for one to benefit from the book and to join the Fastlane. One assumption was living in a free, democratic society. As societies around the world become more totalitarian, this assumption becomes less true for more people.

Unfortunately this is true, my entire philosophy is predicated on living in a culture with some free markets, not Venezuela, or sadly, like some of these states with totalitarian governors.
 

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Aren’t you operating in Washington state?

There’s been much more than one stimulus check...


View attachment 35760
Unskilled workers can pull unemployment + $1200 a month doing nothing. That’s more than people in that class normally make mowing lawns... or close enough it’s better to do nothing.

The people I know in Washington state with similar businesses to yours can’t get any new employees.
That’s unemployment. Not everyone’s getting it.
 

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