Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency Discussion (And Predictions)

[csalvato]

What is stopping anyone making these with Microsoft paint?

8m is more than a lot of art by very established/famous artists.

Not quite getting why these are worth more than $100.

This is phase 1 of understanding NFTs. This is where everyone starts.

I have no good explanation for you, aside to encourage you to keep going down the NFT rabbit hole. Then, it clicks as to what's going on here.

 

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[James Fake]

Coming right up: The last leg for this bull run...

Super fast, super steep... It'll be at $100k in the blink of an eye. Get ready for a bunch of 10-20% days back to back to back.

After that; let it cool off for a few months to a year or so.. then get into ETH and other strong blockchains in utility use today. Because the next bull run will be all about Blockchain tech vs. Inflation hedge/store of value like today. This is when ETH will ride to $10k... Slap yourself if you don't get ETH at $500-700 before the next one starts.

LFG!!!!

 

[James Fake]

I think I may make a video or two on my thoughts on crypto (some markets stuff) and then chop it up into tiny digestible pieces.. hmmm....

 

[c4n]

Wow, what on earth am I seeing? These ugly a$$ 1990's video game graphics avatars are selling for tens of thousands???

Average sale price over the last 12 month: $22,214
Number of sales over the last 12 months: 6,937
Total value of sales over the last 12 months: $150,549,448

This is insane

Money laundering?

 

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[ChrisV]

Lol just because a majority agrees with something doesn’t make it true.

come on man

Yea but it absolutely is true. Bitcoin is the currency of choice for Darkweb vendors, and most actual use-cases for using an anonymous, untraceable currency is from the purchase of black market or grey market goods on the internet. Otherwise, regular debit is significantly more convenient.

Why else would you choose a currency that takes hours to confirm over a regular card? Easy - you don’t want anyone knowing what you purchased.

That’s what bitcoin is actually used for. Amazon doesn’t take it. Walmart.com doesn’t take it.

The only times anyone I know have actually used Bitcoin was in the purchase of grey-market goods. Otherwise debit cards are much more convenient.

Again, you have to think from first principles. If you invest in a solar panel company, you’re making the best that demand for solar panels will go up and that company will thrive.

I just don’t see how bitcoin is more useful to normal fiat currency. Maybe one day in the future there will be a Cryptocurrency that solves the issue of how long it takes to process, but Bitcoin is extremely unlikely to be that currency.

 

[biggeemac]

Coming right up: The last leg for this bull run...

Super fast, super steep... It'll be at $100k in the blink of an eye. Get ready for a bunch of 10-20% days back to back to back.

After that; let it cool off for a few months to a year or so.. then get into ETH and other strong blockchains in utility use today. Because the next bull run will be all about Blockchain tech vs. Inflation hedge/store of value like today. This is when ETH will ride to $10k... Slap yourself if you don't get ETH at $500-700 before the next one starts.

LFG!!!!

I bought 4 last month. Not sure if ETH will keep pace with BTC on this run, but we'll see I guess.

 

[csalvato]

Yea but it absolutely is true. Bitcoin is the currency of choice for Darkweb vendors, and most actual use-cases for using an anonymous, untraceable currency is from the purchase of black market or grey market goods on the internet. Otherwise, regular debit is significantly more convenient.

Why else would you choose a currency that takes hours to confirm over a regular card? Easy - you don’t want anyone knowing what you purchased.

That’s what bitcoin is actually used for. Amazon doesn’t take it. Walmart.com doesn’t take it.

The only times anyone I know have actually used Bitcoin was in the purchase of grey-market goods. Otherwise debit cards are much more convenient.

Again, you have to think from first principles. If you invest in a solar panel company, you’re making the best that demand for solar panels will go up and that company will thrive.

I just don’t see how bitcoin is more useful to normal fiat currency. Maybe one day in the future there will be a Cryptocurrency that solves the issue of how long it takes to process, but Bitcoin is extremely unlikely to be that currency.

So, you believe BTC is only used by criminals, despite the mountains of evidence that it's not, and your only proof is a survey of what people think it's used for and your personal opinion?

In that case, I think we're done with this conversation.

 

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[JamesQB8]

Yea but it absolutely is true. Bitcoin is the currency of choice for Darkweb vendors, and most actual use-cases for using an anonymous, untraceable currency is from the purchase of black market or grey market goods on the internet. Otherwise, regular debit is significantly more convenient.

Why else would you choose a currency that takes hours to confirm over a regular card? Easy - you don’t want anyone knowing what you purchased.

That’s what bitcoin is actually used for. Amazon doesn’t take it. Walmart.com doesn’t take it.

The only times anyone I know have actually used Bitcoin was in the purchase of grey-market goods. Otherwise debit cards are much more convenient.

Again, you have to think from first principles. If you invest in a solar panel company, you’re making the best that demand for solar panels will go up and that company will thrive.

I just don’t see how bitcoin is more useful to normal fiat currency. Maybe one day in the future there will be a Cryptocurrency that solves the issue of how long it takes to process, but Bitcoin is extremely unlikely to be that currency.

Lol Bitcoin is not untraceable at all. It's actually the complete opposite.

 

[GPM]

I like crypto because I can send it to any wallet anywhere in the world and it absolutely does not matter where that person is. I open up my account, punch in some numbers, and hit send.

I did some work with someone in USA and you would not believe how hard it was to get paid from a us bank to my Canadian bank. Wire transfer was brutal, couldn't do an e transfer. If I recall the easiest ended up being writing a cheque and having it sent in the mail. Trying to deposit that was another fun bank game.

I've also sent Eth as a test to that same person. It took us a few minutes to send and receive it and that was that. No screwing around. Super easy.

Even with crypto being a pain in the a$$, it is still easier than using established banks when sending money to foreign individuals.

Fast forward 10 years and this will be light years ahead of where it is now.

 

[csalvato]

I like crypto because I can send it to any wallet anywhere in the world and it absolutely does not matter where that person is. I open up my account, punch in some numbers, and hit send.

I did some work with someone in USA and you would not believe how hard it was to get paid from a us bank to my Canadian bank. Wire transfer was brutal, couldn't do an e transfer. If I recall the easiest ended up being writing a cheque and having it sent in the mail. Trying to deposit that was another fun bank game.

I've also sent Eth as a test to that same person. It took us a few minutes to send and receive it and that was that. No screwing around. Super easy.

Even with crypto being a pain in the a$$, it is still easier than using established banks when sending money to foreign individuals.

Fast forward 10 years and this will be light years ahead of where it is now.

So, what you’re saying is that you’re a criminal, right?

 

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[Kak]

Yea but it absolutely is true. Bitcoin is the currency of choice for Darkweb vendors, and most actual use-cases for using an anonymous, untraceable currency is from the purchase of black market or grey market goods on the internet. Otherwise, regular debit is significantly more convenient.

Why else would you choose a currency that takes hours to confirm over a regular card? Easy - you don’t want anyone knowing what you purchased.

That’s what bitcoin is actually used for. Amazon doesn’t take it. Walmart.com doesn’t take it.

The only times anyone I know have actually used Bitcoin was in the purchase of grey-market goods. Otherwise debit cards are much more convenient.

Again, you have to think from first principles. If you invest in a solar panel company, you’re making the best that demand for solar panels will go up and that company will thrive.

I just don’t see how bitcoin is more useful to normal fiat currency. Maybe one day in the future there will be a Cryptocurrency that solves the issue of how long it takes to process, but Bitcoin is extremely unlikely to be that currency.

This nefarious use thing is a headwind and a tailwind. First of all, commerce legitimizes it. All commerce. I don’t care if it is nefarious commerce or above board.

Arguing that it is bad “because drug dealers” is as wrong as saying drug dealers don’t use it. Seriously? Of course they do! It is the best invention for drug dealers since the burner phone. Literally, a member of the forum that is currently serving time in a federal prison used it to deal drugs.

Drug dealers and murderers also use guns, it is not a reason to ban guns for legitimate use. After all, they already banned drug dealers and murderers. That didn’t work out well.

That said, just like with guns, the nefarious shit is a convenient excuse for zealous politicians to make things more difficult for those of us without nefarious intentions.

 

[Kak]

I like crypto because I can send it to any wallet anywhere in the world and it absolutely does not matter where that person is. I open up my account, punch in some numbers, and hit send.

I did some work with someone in USA and you would not believe how hard it was to get paid from a us bank to my Canadian bank. Wire transfer was brutal, couldn't do an e transfer. If I recall the easiest ended up being writing a cheque and having it sent in the mail. Trying to deposit that was another fun bank game.

I've also sent Eth as a test to that same person. It took us a few minutes to send and receive it and that was that. No screwing around. Super easy.

Even with crypto being a pain in the a$$, it is still easier than using established banks when sending money to foreign individuals.

Fast forward 10 years and this will be light years ahead of where it is now.

Here’s a good example. I owed GPM a nice chunk of money. He lives in Canada, I live in the USA. You would be shocked at the fees to send a transfer of funds across that border and into Canadian funds. It was enough money where fees mattered.

I tried ACH. I looked at wiring it. Whatever the banks offered. It was either ridiculously expensive like 5+% or it would send back for some currency BS. I know maybe I’m an idiot, but I always paid international businesses on their terms. GPM is an individual. Neither of us wanted a fat fee. It was one of those “figure it out” things. I ended up mailing a check.

Ether or Bitcoin would have taken seconds for a minuscule, by comparison, fee. The problem is the purchase and then the subsequent transfer and then the transfer back into fiat... That creates cap gains tax BS filing on both sides of a business transaction. (Maybe in Canada, idk.)

I hate the USD... But I would use a USD stablecoin if it was specifically sanctioned not to create capital gains reporting with use by businesses. Tax free move into and out of a USD stablecoin would speed up the economy in a lot of ways.

For individuals sending money to one another for various reasons, Bitcoin and ETH are king and queen. For businesses, it would work too, but creates that secondary taxable event and more compliance headaches than it might be worth.

 

[csalvato]

I hate the USD... But I would use a USD stablecoin if it was specifically sanctioned not to create capital gains reporting with use by businesses. It would speed up the economy in a lot of ways.

Does a USD stable coin like USDC, BUSB or USDT not satisfy this criteria?

 

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[MTF]

I like crypto because I can send it to any wallet anywhere in the world and it absolutely does not matter where that person is. I open up my account, punch in some numbers, and hit send.

I did some work with someone in USA and you would not believe how hard it was to get paid from a us bank to my Canadian bank. Wire transfer was brutal, couldn't do an e transfer. If I recall the easiest ended up being writing a cheque and having it sent in the mail. Trying to deposit that was another fun bank game.

I've also sent Eth as a test to that same person. It took us a few minutes to send and receive it and that was that. No screwing around. Super easy.

Even with crypto being a pain in the a$$, it is still easier than using established banks when sending money to foreign individuals.

Fast forward 10 years and this will be light years ahead of where it is now.

Here’s a good example. I owed GPM a nice chunk of money. He lives in Canada, I live in the USA. You would be shocked at the fees to send a transfer of funds across that border and into Canadian funds. It was enough money where fees mattered.

I tried ACH. I looked at wiring it. Whatever the banks offered. It was either ridiculously expensive like 5+% or it would send back for some currency BS. I know maybe I’m an idiot, but I always paid international businesses on their terms. GPM is an individual. I ended up mailing a check.

Ether or Bitcoin would have taken seconds for a minuscule, by comparison, fee. The problem is the purchase and then the subsequent transfer and then the transfer back into fiat... That creates cap gains tax BS filing on both sides of a business transaction. (Maybe in Canada, idk.)

I hate the USD... But I would use a USD stablecoin if it was specifically sanctioned not to create capital gains reporting with use by businesses. It would speed up the economy in a lot of ways.

Maybe it doesn't work as well in the US but I never had any problems sending international transfers via Revolut or Transferwise. It's always super cheap and easy.

And in the European Union it doesn't matter where you send the money, it's transferred within hours via SEPA.

So actually the current solutions are IMO sufficient for most people.

But again, maybe it's different in the US. Many things are super backward over there compared to other countries. Not being snarky, it's just the truth - for example the fact that people still use checks. They haven't been used since like the 90s outside of the US and no young person in Europe today would even know what to do with it.

 

[Deleted78083]

Buying diamonds from unknown African mines or clothes made in Pakistani sweatshops is much more ethically reprehensible than buying BTC.

In the first case, you contribute to the maintenance of the activity, while there is NO WAY to prevent criminals from using BTC for their own activities, regardless of the fact you are buying them or not.

And that, is the beauty of a decentralized system.

Discussions regarding the unethical component of BTC due to the fact it is used by criminals is therefore completely irrelevant*.

EXACTLY what BTC was built for at first.


*It would be like being frustrated because it's raining lol

 

[Kak]

Does a USD stable coin like USDC, BUSB or USDT not satisfy this criteria?

It is a crypto and regulated as such. Even if it didn’t move a penny, you owned it and therefore have to report it as something you bought, then presumably show the blockchain transaction of sending to whomever that you are paying as an expense.

I am sure it is allowed... Why wouldn’t it be? But it still requires that other layer of reporting in some form or fashion that a business is not going to want to subject themselves to. All of that shit costs money. Compliance is one of the biggest sucks of value and resources out of business. Unfortunately, all cryptos currently carry additional compliance considerations for use in business.

 

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[csalvato]

It is a crypto and regulated as such. Even if it didn’t move a penny, you owned it and therefore have to report it as something you bought, then presumably show the blockchain transaction of sending to whomever that you are paying as an expense.

I am sure it is allowed... Why wouldn’t it be? But it still requires that other layer of reporting in some form or fashion that a business is not going to want to subject themselves to. All of that shit costs money. Compliance is one of the biggest sucks of value and resources out of business. Unfortunately, all cryptos currently carry additional compliance considerations for use in business.

Gotcha...so you could do it, but you still have the same burden of reporting the purchase and a 0% gain.

Hopefully the legislation around this changes. But it might go the other way and get worse.

 

[Kak]

Buying diamonds from unknown African mines or clothes made in Pakistani sweatshops is much more ethically reprehensible than buying BTC.

I’ve actually tackled this diamond thing on my show. Things aren’t always as they seem.

What is even more reprehensible is to illegitimize what could be a prosperous industry for a poverty and crime stricken part of the world. Prosperity reduces crime across the board.

What is better? Bringing legitimate opportunities to impoverished areas of Africa and letting them join the world economy? Or shunning them and forcing them to move their, would be valuable, natural resources to the black market?

This debeers crap is bad bad news. Their marketing has destroyed the potential for a much more civilized life in these areas.

Some people hate Koch, some people hate Monsanto, some people hate Nestle, others hate oil companies... I hate debeers. They exist on fake news and social engineering.

 

[Kak]

Gotcha...so you could do it, but you still have the same burden of reporting the purchase and a 0% gain.

Hopefully the legislation around this changes. But it might go the other way and get worse.

That would be a huge deal for businesses. Like even if there was a 1 day reporting free holding period or something, that would make this day and night better for businesses.

 

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[csalvato]

That would be a huge deal for businesses. Like even if there was a 1 day reporting free holding period or something, that would make this day and night better for businesses.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY) is being a squeaky wheel in the house to reduce the reporting burden. It's unclear her plan, but I could see something like this (a holding grace period) or a no reporting necessary on amounts under $X value (say, $5000).

'Bitcoin Senator' Lummis Optimistic About Crypto Tax Reform - Decrypt

Sen. Cynthia Lummis, the first in the Chamber to own Bitcoin, says bipartisan support will accelerate crypto tax reform.

decrypt.co

 

[Kak]

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY) is being a squeaky wheel in congress to reduce the reporting burden. It's unclear her plan, but I could see something like this (a holding grace period) or a no reporting necessary on amounts under $X value (say, $5000).

'Bitcoin Senator' Lummis Optimistic About Crypto Tax Reform - Decrypt

Sen. Cynthia Lummis, the first in the Chamber to own Bitcoin, says bipartisan support will accelerate crypto tax reform.

decrypt.co

The holding grace period is good policy for this, but the value limits still suck.

If I want to buy 200k worth of inventory, and wanted to do it in Bitcoin, It would currently be just as burdensome as buying 200k worth of McDonalds stock and then sending it to my vendor’s brokerage account for them to sell. It’s screwy. It’s the government’s fault, not bitcoin’s.

 

[nitrousflame]

Again, you have to think from first principles.

I agree 100%. However, with all due respect, one cannot think from first principles if one does not know the principles first.

For instance, simply reading the bitcoin whitepaper itself would reveal that bitcoin transactions are neither untraceable nor do they require hours to confirm.

 

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[c4n]

That would be a huge deal for businesses. Like even if there was a 1 day reporting free holding period or something, that would make this day and night better for businesses.

In Europe, they plan to do this with the Digital Euro. So EUR on some sort of blockchain, but controlled by and backed by a central bank (unlike current stablecoins).

 

[Kak]

In Europe, they plan to do this with the Digital Euro. So EUR on some sort of blockchain, but controlled by and backed by a central bank (unlike current stablecoins).

I hate the central bank part, but a stablecoin pegged on a Keynesian manipulated currency has the same effect anyway. I think this is a move in the right direction for ease of exchange, but it does nothing to sound up the currency.

Will something ever hit both? Probably not. We are essentially forced to transact in gov issued toilet paper. As long as we are going to have a FED, I’d like them to do the same... I guess.

 

[csalvato]

The holding grace period is good policy for this, but the value limits still suck.

I agree. I've come to accept that best we can do is baby steps, though.

 

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[James Fake]

and.... there she blows. First stop: Mars.

Strap the F*ck in! LFG!!

 

[GPM]

Lol, government issued toilet paper. Soon to be completely digital toilet paper? We can wipe our avatar asses with it.

 

[Timmy C]

Coming right up: The last leg for this bull run...

Super fast, super steep... It'll be at $100k in the blink of an eye. Get ready for a bunch of 10-20% days back to back to back.

After that; let it cool off for a few months to a year or so.. then get into ETH and other strong blockchains in utility use today. Because the next bull run will be all about Blockchain tech vs. Inflation hedge/store of value like today. This is when ETH will ride to $10k... Slap yourself if you don't get ETH at $500-700 before the next one starts.

LFG!!!!

What changed from $240,000 to $100,000.

Big sentiment change.

 

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[Timmy C]

The FED will be dead due to crypto.

Only a matter of time as far as I see it.

 

[Wouter]

Love seeing innovations like these that are made possible by the Bitcoin & Lightning network:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369434546291306497

View: https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/1369434546291306497


Has me excited for what's coming.