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Biophase & Snowbank get pitched MLM in Barnes & Noble

biophase

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Tonight @snowbank and I go to Barnes & Noble because Bill wanted to see the placement of his friend’s personal development book.

We go to the personal development section and looking at his friend’s books and Bill makes a comment about a book. This 22 year old guy behind us says something about the book and starts talking to us. He said he was trying to become a better speaker because he wanted to tell his story to the world. So Bill recommended he join Toastmasters. Then he says he wants to make money telling his story, so I say “Oh, like a motivational speaker.” He says, not really. He wants to build a business and then tell people about his story. He asks us if we have any book recommendations.

We run through the gammit of books that we like, RDPD, Millionaire Fastlane, The One Thing, Magic of Thinking Big, Zero to One, 4WWW, etc… Bill literally began pulling books off the shelf and handing them to him, until he had around 6-7 books in his hands. He asks what we do. Bill tells him that he’s writing a business book and directs him to his Forever Jobless website.

Then the guy begins to talk about his mentor and how he’s being mentored by this wealthy guy. Bill asks “What does your mentor do?” The guy responds that he quit his job with IBM and has been mentoring for 15 years. He’s going on and on about his mentor, then Bill asks the magic words, “Is this an MLM?”, he says “well some people call it that.”

So now we begin to explain to him the issues of being in an MLM. Bill explains that he had a friend who left a $500/month MLM and now runs a $4m business. He starts to get defensive and says his mentor makes way more than $4m a year.

I tell him that I sell dog accessories. I show him a video of my new office and warehouse and I also show him a picture of my Mclaren, to show that we are legit. We are like dude, listen to us. You are talking to two successful entrepreneurs here. We are literally handing you books by people that we know.

But this 22 yo thinks that he knows more than us. He keeps telling us how great his MLM is. So Bill asks him how much he makes. He says, “I’m not going to tell you that. But I make almost enough to leave my job at a plumbing supply store.”

He then asks me how many hours I work a week. He says, ”do you work 4 hours a week?”, showing me the 4 Hour Work Week book that we just recommended to him. He’s implying that I have to spend many hours on my business and that he works less than me. I tell him that there’s a reason none of these business books ever mention MLMs. I tell him to think about it.

Bill says, imagine you spend the same amount of time on a real business that you do on this MLM, the kid stops him and says, “MLM is a real business.” At this point Bill was getting annoyed so he had to leave and go into the next aisle.

This guy was too far gone, brainwashed by his MLM mentor into thinking he’s doing actual business work. He’s a hustler, trying to get downlines at a bookstore at 8:30pm on the Thursday. Too bad he’s hustling the wrong direction.

The ironic thing is that when we walked in I say to Bill, “Let’s go to the business section so we can get pitched on by MLMers”.

Tomorrow, maybe we can get MJ to go back and peruse the business section as bait.
 

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Fox

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It's crazy how they get brainwashed specifically to resist any logical help from people who know MLMs are a scam. The harder who try to help these people the more they dig in mentally.


He’s a hustler, trying to get downlines at a bookstore at 8:30pm on the Thursday.
LOL - it's like pickup for business.
 

SamRussell

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But now he has this night in the back of his mind..... for EVER! One day he might come around, ya never know.
I was thinking this. He won't change his mind on the spot, but give him a few days of mulling it over and he might start to think a bit more rationally about his situation.
 

cy-

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It's always funny how we (humans) can have our ideas and when confronted with logic, we just tend to deny it. Like we really can be straight up delusional about things.

Some things more than others though.

I find it interesting why something like MLM can make people so delusional?

Is it because "money" is a complex thing to understand?
Is it because business in general is complex and therefore not that "transparent" in its structure?

I've also been brainwashed for different things throughout my short lived life, fortunately not MLM, but I always wonder how it ends up like that and why...

Though I would give the guy credit for committing and hustling like that.
As a young guy myself, I know that your opinions and beliefs will change a lot, so hopefully we can see him here someday.

I believe a guy like him could make great progress on a real business with his drive but also with his delusion to what people say.

I would argue that you do need to be, not delusional, but resistible to opinions of everyone around you with their scripted dogma.

But the difference here is that the belief in the Unscripted will benefit you way more than your belief in MLM.

I hope this guy will remember what you told him and read TMF at least.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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Tomorrow, maybe we can get MJ to go back and peruse the business section as bait.
You better believe that kid will be there. That's his spot now. There's an endless supply of fresh pickings for him to grow his "network." Targeted and already greased by the business section of the bookstore.

Forget about that MLM guy telling you he likes your shoes. This kid's pick up line is "what book you got there?"
 

Strategery

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Something similar happened to me in a bookstore a month or so ago. I was looking for a physical copy of Unscripted and some dude started talking to me about business/entrepreneurship/etc. and was telling me that I needed a mentor and a "passive money system." He insisted I take his number and then just stayed in the same area, I suppose hoping to mentor whoever happened by lol
 

Envision

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This is a good lesson to everyone.

The ripple effect of the 22 year olds actions in that store will change the trajectory of his life forever.

If his mindset was open to learning and understanding and he took you guys up on what you were saying and maybe asked if he could follow up with you guys on the books he may have found two new mentors who would have taught him how to build a multi million dollar e-commerce business.

But instead he will probably be at that plumbing supply store for years to come making just above minimum wage.

People often think that they are unlucky, or that the world treats them a certain way. When in reality their own mind and thoughts close the doors to opportunity and “luck” without them even realizing it.
 

SamRussell

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This is a good lesson to everyone.

The ripple effect of the 22 year olds actions in that store will change the trajectory of his life forever.

If his mindset was open to learning and understanding and he took you guys up on what you were saying and maybe asked if he could follow up with you guys on the books he may have found two new mentors who would have taught him how to build a multi million dollar e-commerce business.

But instead he will probably be at that plumbing supply store for years to come making just above minimum wage.

People often think that they are unlucky, or that the world treats them a certain way. When in reality their own mind and thoughts close the doors to opportunity and “luck” without them even realizing it.
Gold.

How do you prevent / catch yourself / increase your own awareness of when you do this? Or is this no longer a problem for you?
 

Envision

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Gold.

How do you prevent / catch yourself / increase your own awareness of when you do this? Or is this no longer a problem for you?
You need to be self aware, you need to understand you dont know everything, and you need to humble yourself or have been humbled by the world so you can be open to new ideas.

This comes through understanding and learning more about the world, learning enough to know that you dont know.

I had this exact same situation happen to me 5 years ago.

I met a guy who was what many of us on the forum would define as success.. he privately owns 100MM business, amazing family, extremely intelligent and driven and he told me I was doing everything wrong and my ideas wouldn't work and explained why.

My response was okay, how would you do it? I followed up with him constantly, I bugged him every week, I offered to work for him for free, he hired me months later and I worked my way up over a couple years to VP of Operations in his firm, and when my company (which I had been working on this whole time) surpassed the 6 figure per month mark I told him I had to go all in on it.

They were happy for me to go out on my own and wanted to diversify into e-commerce so we're now business partners where they fund acquisitions that I find and then build.

I say that long winded story to show the trajectory of 5 years.​

I could still be working my customer service job that I was working when I met him and found TMF if I thought he was wrong and I was right.

But honestly, I'd rather be rich than right.
 

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biophase

biophase

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I hope this guy will remember what you told him and read TMF at least.
I told the guy, "I know we're not going to change your mind tonight, but do me a favor, just think about what we said."

Maybe Bill will get an email from him 2 years from now since he knows his website.
 

Ocean Man

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Like @Envision said, this is one of those tilting points in that person's life. And just as others have mentioned, maybe it'll take a few days of pondering to make him realize.

By the way, @biophase, thanks for mentioning Bill's website. I decided to check out his website and I am not disappointed. After reading his bat stories and adventures across multiple countries... I had to sign up for his mailing list. Great stuff, haha.
 

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You planted the seeds; often thats all that can be done
This.

I was an absolute dumbass at 22. I knew that I wanted freedom, I just had no idea how to get it (but I was definitely getting pitched the MLM route). It took me a bit, but I came around... I'm guessing this kid has a good chance of looking back on this encounter & being grateful while simultaneously cringing, haha.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I can't imagine owning a business and my best bet at growing it was to lurk around the aisles at Barnes and Noble pitching strangers on a Thursday night. What a miserable existence.

These people are insufferable.

I guarantee this kid NEVER met his "mentor", he's just some inner-circle dude that everyone talks about.
 

Roz

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I told the guy, "I know we're not going to change your mind tonight, but do me a favor, just think about what we said."

Maybe Bill will get an email from him 2 years from now since he knows his website.
Exactly.

One day he might come to the store and try to remember the names of the books Bill and you handed him.

He'll look for Bill's blog probably thinking,

"What's the name of the site he told me? Wait...is it Forever Homeless or Forever Jobless?

Will google both to find out."
 

Kid

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It's crazy how they get brainwashed specifically to resist any logical help from people who know MLMs are a scam. The harder who try to help these people the more they dig in mentally.
Recently there was an youtube video made, about live experiment on some lake that would prove that earth is round.

The flats (flat earth believers) were exposed to fact that earth is in fact round.

When asked about it, they throw some excuse lines like its a fact of refraction and similiar.

The thing is that there are two kinds of such people.

One - poor guys who want to have even one bit of attention from the society.

Two - people who use the previous kind as a cannon fodder for the same reason - attention. But as soon as fad becomes boring they change the who they feed on.
 

Kid

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guarantee this kid NEVER met his "mentor", he's just some inner-circle dude that everyone talks about.
Maybe there is no "mentor" :eek:
 

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becks22

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One of the only parts of reddit I like is the r/antimlm. So many stories like this one. I was stupid when I was 22 as well. Hopefully he'll grow out of it.
 

AnAverageJoe

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I'm going to the bookstore tonight to pitch an MLM hoping I run into two guys like @biophase and @snowbank that will give me priceless advice. :rofl:
 

AnneC

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I used to have a business that sold to primarily MLM women. I shut it down in January. Even though I was making money (more than they were, most likely), my conscience didn’t feel right about it. I justified it by hoping that those women were learning skills to start their own real businesses. But instead, most of them were losing money and jumping from MLM to MLM.

I second @becks22 /r/antimlm suggestion. It’s crazy the psychology they use to get people to stay in the cult. And those poor suckers blame themselves if they’re failing, because they “didn’t put in the work.” They don’t understand that they are the MLM company’s customer, and not the business owner.

I don’t mention RDPD because all those Amway guys tout “The Business of the 21st Century.” And now all the MLM people have turned into “coaches” and Russell Brunson / ClickFunnels junkies.

Usually, they’re way too brainwashed to listen. I drop facts from antimlm and plug MJ’s books. Then, I’ll say something along the lines of, “If you’re a real business owner, then you’ll know the importance of tracking your income / expenses. At the very least, promise me you’ll make a spreadsheet of all of your income and all of your expenses. If the numbers aren’t making sense after 3 months, you’ll get out.” I shoot for 3 months, but I try to get them to commit to a time period. They’ve usually been told it takes time to build a business, but I try to put a cap on their losing money.

I think the saddest part is that these MLMs target people who don’t have money, in the first place. Watch “Betting on Zero.”
 

Ninjakid

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I wonder how much you have to give up on life to join an MLM and actually believe in it.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I wonder how much you have to give up on life to join an MLM and actually believe in it.
This is a really harsh perspective. Let’s just say it about everyone who does stuff we think is stupid..
 

Ninjakid

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This is a really harsh perspective. Let’s just say it about everyone who does stuff we think is stupid..
It's not because I think it's stupid. You could almost forgive people for just being stupid.

The whole MLM model for recruitment is based on deception, otherwise it wouldn't work. The people who work in MLM's know exactly what they're doing.

So I really have no warm feelings towards people who knowingly take advantage of and screw other over.
 

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