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Biophase & Snowbank get pitched MLM in Barnes & Noble

biophase

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Tonight @snowbank and I go to Barnes & Noble because Bill wanted to see the placement of his friend’s personal development book.

We go to the personal development section and looking at his friend’s books and Bill makes a comment about a book. This 22 year old guy behind us says something about the book and starts talking to us. He said he was trying to become a better speaker because he wanted to tell his story to the world. So Bill recommended he join Toastmasters. Then he says he wants to make money telling his story, so I say “Oh, like a motivational speaker.” He says, not really. He wants to build a business and then tell people about his story. He asks us if we have any book recommendations.

We run through the gammit of books that we like, RDPD, Millionaire Fastlane, The One Thing, Magic of Thinking Big, Zero to One, 4WWW, etc… Bill literally began pulling books off the shelf and handing them to him, until he had around 6-7 books in his hands. He asks what we do. Bill tells him that he’s writing a business book and directs him to his Forever Jobless website.

Then the guy begins to talk about his mentor and how he’s being mentored by this wealthy guy. Bill asks “What does your mentor do?” The guy responds that he quit his job with IBM and has been mentoring for 15 years. He’s going on and on about his mentor, then Bill asks the magic words, “Is this an MLM?”, he says “well some people call it that.”

So now we begin to explain to him the issues of being in an MLM. Bill explains that he had a friend who left a $500/month MLM and now runs a $4m business. He starts to get defensive and says his mentor makes way more than $4m a year.

I tell him that I sell dog accessories. I show him a video of my new office and warehouse and I also show him a picture of my Mclaren, to show that we are legit. We are like dude, listen to us. You are talking to two successful entrepreneurs here. We are literally handing you books by people that we know.

But this 22 yo thinks that he knows more than us. He keeps telling us how great his MLM is. So Bill asks him how much he makes. He says, “I’m not going to tell you that. But I make almost enough to leave my job at a plumbing supply store.”

He then asks me how many hours I work a week. He says, ”do you work 4 hours a week?”, showing me the 4 Hour Work Week book that we just recommended to him. He’s implying that I have to spend many hours on my business and that he works less than me. I tell him that there’s a reason none of these business books ever mention MLMs. I tell him to think about it.

Bill says, imagine you spend the same amount of time on a real business that you do on this MLM, the kid stops him and says, “MLM is a real business.” At this point Bill was getting annoyed so he had to leave and go into the next aisle.

This guy was too far gone, brainwashed by his MLM mentor into thinking he’s doing actual business work. He’s a hustler, trying to get downlines at a bookstore at 8:30pm on the Thursday. Too bad he’s hustling the wrong direction.

The ironic thing is that when we walked in I say to Bill, “Let’s go to the business section so we can get pitched on by MLMers”.

Tomorrow, maybe we can get MJ to go back and peruse the business section as bait.
 

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Envision

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This is a good lesson to everyone.

The ripple effect of the 22 year olds actions in that store will change the trajectory of his life forever.

If his mindset was open to learning and understanding and he took you guys up on what you were saying and maybe asked if he could follow up with you guys on the books he may have found two new mentors who would have taught him how to build a multi million dollar e-commerce business.

But instead he will probably be at that plumbing supply store for years to come making just above minimum wage.

People often think that they are unlucky, or that the world treats them a certain way. When in reality their own mind and thoughts close the doors to opportunity and “luck” without them even realizing it.
 

Envision

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Gold.

How do you prevent / catch yourself / increase your own awareness of when you do this? Or is this no longer a problem for you?
You need to be self aware, you need to understand you dont know everything, and you need to humble yourself or have been humbled by the world so you can be open to new ideas.

This comes through understanding and learning more about the world, learning enough to know that you dont know.

I had this exact same situation happen to me 5 years ago.

I met a guy who was what many of us on the forum would define as success.. he privately owns 100MM business, amazing family, extremely intelligent and driven and he told me I was doing everything wrong and my ideas wouldn't work and explained why.

My response was okay, how would you do it? I followed up with him constantly, I bugged him every week, I offered to work for him for free, he hired me months later and I worked my way up over a couple years to VP of Operations in his firm, and when my company (which I had been working on this whole time) surpassed the 6 figure per month mark I told him I had to go all in on it.

They were happy for me to go out on my own and wanted to diversify into e-commerce so we're now business partners where they fund acquisitions that I find and then build.

I say that long winded story to show the trajectory of 5 years.​

I could still be working my customer service job that I was working when I met him and found TMF if I thought he was wrong and I was right.

But honestly, I'd rather be rich than right.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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I can't imagine owning a business and my best bet at growing it was to lurk around the aisles at Barnes and Noble pitching strangers on a Thursday night. What a miserable existence.

These people are insufferable.

I guarantee this kid NEVER met his "mentor", he's just some inner-circle dude that everyone talks about.
 
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biophase

biophase

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I hope this guy will remember what you told him and read TMF at least.
I told the guy, "I know we're not going to change your mind tonight, but do me a favor, just think about what we said."

Maybe Bill will get an email from him 2 years from now since he knows his website.
 

AnneC

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I used to have a business that sold to primarily MLM women. I shut it down in January. Even though I was making money (more than they were, most likely), my conscience didn’t feel right about it. I justified it by hoping that those women were learning skills to start their own real businesses. But instead, most of them were losing money and jumping from MLM to MLM.

I second @becks22 /r/antimlm suggestion. It’s crazy the psychology they use to get people to stay in the cult. And those poor suckers blame themselves if they’re failing, because they “didn’t put in the work.” They don’t understand that they are the MLM company’s customer, and not the business owner.

I don’t mention RDPD because all those Amway guys tout “The Business of the 21st Century.” And now all the MLM people have turned into “coaches” and Russell Brunson / ClickFunnels junkies.

Usually, they’re way too brainwashed to listen. I drop facts from antimlm and plug MJ’s books. Then, I’ll say something along the lines of, “If you’re a real business owner, then you’ll know the importance of tracking your income / expenses. At the very least, promise me you’ll make a spreadsheet of all of your income and all of your expenses. If the numbers aren’t making sense after 3 months, you’ll get out.” I shoot for 3 months, but I try to get them to commit to a time period. They’ve usually been told it takes time to build a business, but I try to put a cap on their losing money.

I think the saddest part is that these MLMs target people who don’t have money, in the first place. Watch “Betting on Zero.”
 

Fox

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It's crazy how they get brainwashed specifically to resist any logical help from people who know MLMs are a scam. The harder who try to help these people the more they dig in mentally.


He’s a hustler, trying to get downlines at a bookstore at 8:30pm on the Thursday.
LOL - it's like pickup for business.
 

SamRussell

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But now he has this night in the back of his mind..... for EVER! One day he might come around, ya never know.
I was thinking this. He won't change his mind on the spot, but give him a few days of mulling it over and he might start to think a bit more rationally about his situation.
 

AnAverageJoe

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I'm going to the bookstore tonight to pitch an MLM hoping I run into two guys like @biophase and @snowbank that will give me priceless advice. :rofl:
 

UnrealCreative

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Copy and paste the same story...

Except the dude's pitching me at a bread isle in a Scottsdale supermarket.

"Hey is this good bread?"
"IDK man."
One thing leads to another.
"I'm here for a biz conference."
"Really?! I have this mentor..."

o_O

Their lines are all the same.
 

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cy-

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It's always funny how we (humans) can have our ideas and when confronted with logic, we just tend to deny it. Like we really can be straight up delusional about things.

Some things more than others though.

I find it interesting why something like MLM can make people so delusional?

Is it because "money" is a complex thing to understand?
Is it because business in general is complex and therefore not that "transparent" in its structure?

I've also been brainwashed for different things throughout my short lived life, fortunately not MLM, but I always wonder how it ends up like that and why...

Though I would give the guy credit for committing and hustling like that.
As a young guy myself, I know that your opinions and beliefs will change a lot, so hopefully we can see him here someday.

I believe a guy like him could make great progress on a real business with his drive but also with his delusion to what people say.

I would argue that you do need to be, not delusional, but resistible to opinions of everyone around you with their scripted dogma.

But the difference here is that the belief in the Unscripted will benefit you way more than your belief in MLM.

I hope this guy will remember what you told him and read TMF at least.
 

Ocean Man

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Like @Envision said, this is one of those tilting points in that person's life. And just as others have mentioned, maybe it'll take a few days of pondering to make him realize.

By the way, @biophase, thanks for mentioning Bill's website. I decided to check out his website and I am not disappointed. After reading his bat stories and adventures across multiple countries... I had to sign up for his mailing list. Great stuff, haha.
 

Real Deal Denver

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I was once involved in an MLM biz. Loved it. Loved the company and their product.

They sold meat. Steaks. Organic, farm-raised. Very good product. Also, sausage patties that were to die for - best I've ever had. I can't remember the name of the company as that was decades ago - but it started with a K and had a shield with their logo on it.

Here's how it could work. Stay with me on this - it gets detailed. First, you have to break down the profit layers. I'll use the numbers supplied below because I need an example, but I don't have access to the actual data - so give me some leeway here, okay? Here is a graphic from a recent article; Explainer: Why are farmers so angry about the price of beef right now?

beef profit sign.JPG

It is clear that the retailer is making over 50% profit on beef. Hmmmm. Let's look at that from the producer's viewpoint.

After the beef is processed there is a LOT of room for profit. In fact, over 100%. If the farmer can sell this for an ADDITIONAL 12% profit, everyone would be getting a great deal. There is STILL about 90% profit margin to work with. That's how the meat company I was involved with did things, and it worked great for everyone.

Oh no - was that MLM? Maybe. I don't care. All I cared about was I was getting very good beef for a LOT less than the grocery store, and it was delivered to me on dry ice. I was happy. So was the guy that signed me up.

The concept of MLM "COULD BE" to eliminate the middle man and pass the savings along. IF they are out to provide a quality product at a good price, that is a DISTRIBUTION model. There has to be a distribution model of some sort in place anyway - why not do the amazon thing and sell things one on one, instead of thousands to a big box store. Could that work? Amazon does it.

If I was a farmer, I'd be doing exactly what this plan is all about, except I'd do the payouts in CREDIT, not cash, so my customers would be buying more product so that I would have my built-in profit margin in. For example - if WalMart gives you a $20 credit, they will be making, say, 50% of whatever you spend that credit on, so it costs them $10. If they give you cash, they make no profit on a sale from their store, so it costs them $20. Stay with me and don't argue.

Of COURSE, this is abused by so many in MLM. Of COURSE, it is a pyramid scam in so many places. But does it have to be that way? No. Open your mind and quit attacking anything that you think resembles a MLM.

SO - is this a better way? What is an alternative? Keep things the same and let the grocery stores make DOUBLE what the farmer makes and double what the processor makes? That's not a very fair system, is it? I guess if you were the farmer, you might think differently.

Food for thought. Could this work? This could be happening now except the farmers market like shit. I don't have the money, nor the freezer space, to buy a full, half, or quarter cow. But, If they sent me a $50 or $100 package a month, they would do gangbuster business. Three packages - 1) High grade, 2) Low grade, and 3) half and half. Take it or leave it. No custom orders.

They could even do a REVERSE MLM system. Instead of people getting a percentage from the sales from the people they signed up (as most MLM's do), they could get a discount on their base price. Let's say 3% for everyone they signed up, up to 12%. Could that work? Hell yes, it could. Easily!

I could be a genius and not know it. The farmers all get a raise - the consumers all save a ton - and I get a T-bone once or twice a week... um, I like it Mikey! A lot.

I hope somebody here takes this and runs with it. I love steak! Sign me UP!
 
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PapaGang

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I was going to write a post about how I got pitched Amway by my Lyft driver this morning. For now I'll just say that I sold him the MFL, and I hope he emails or texts me in a week or two if he swallows the red pill.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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Tomorrow, maybe we can get MJ to go back and peruse the business section as bait.
You better believe that kid will be there. That's his spot now. There's an endless supply of fresh pickings for him to grow his "network." Targeted and already greased by the business section of the bookstore.

Forget about that MLM guy telling you he likes your shoes. This kid's pick up line is "what book you got there?"
 

Red

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You planted the seeds; often thats all that can be done
This.

I was an absolute dumbass at 22. I knew that I wanted freedom, I just had no idea how to get it (but I was definitely getting pitched the MLM route). It took me a bit, but I came around... I'm guessing this kid has a good chance of looking back on this encounter & being grateful while simultaneously cringing, haha.
 

MythOfSisyphus

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My wife often attends 'party's' thrown by friends who hop from one MLM scheme to the next selling things like candles, lingerie, soaps, kitchenware etc.

I couldn't fathom running a business that is built on guilting friends into buying stuff they probably don't want/need.
 

JAJT

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This blows my mind too. Saw the same thing at B&N a few months ago. A fad that people are trying to bank on... "if I say 'F*ck' i'll sell a ton of books because I'm 'edgey' "
If I'm not mistaken, "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" opened the floodgates to the sweary-titled self help books. It was the right kind of edgy title at the right time for this market, exploded, and every other author slapped a swear word in their title to try and ride the wave.

The worst part is that "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" wasn't even that great of a book (in my opinion, anyway, it felt like a dumbed-down, edgy re-hash of material that's better explained in a dozen other books).
 

Kung Fu Steve

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If I'm not mistaken, "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" opened the floodgates to the sweary-titled self help books. It was the right kind of edgy title at the right time for this market, exploded, and every other author slapped a swear word in their title to try and ride the wave.

The worst part is that "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" wasn't even that great of a book (in my opinion, anyway, it felt like a dumbed-down, edgy re-hash of material that's better explained in a dozen other books).
It was a great blog post and I'm happy the guy turned it into what it's become.

But yeah -- I've never been a fan of the "jump on the train" thing in any industry
 

Strategery

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Something similar happened to me in a bookstore a month or so ago. I was looking for a physical copy of Unscripted and some dude started talking to me about business/entrepreneurship/etc. and was telling me that I needed a mentor and a "passive money system." He insisted I take his number and then just stayed in the same area, I suppose hoping to mentor whoever happened by lol
 

SamRussell

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This is a good lesson to everyone.

The ripple effect of the 22 year olds actions in that store will change the trajectory of his life forever.

If his mindset was open to learning and understanding and he took you guys up on what you were saying and maybe asked if he could follow up with you guys on the books he may have found two new mentors who would have taught him how to build a multi million dollar e-commerce business.

But instead he will probably be at that plumbing supply store for years to come making just above minimum wage.

People often think that they are unlucky, or that the world treats them a certain way. When in reality their own mind and thoughts close the doors to opportunity and “luck” without them even realizing it.
Gold.

How do you prevent / catch yourself / increase your own awareness of when you do this? Or is this no longer a problem for you?
 

Kid

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It's crazy how they get brainwashed specifically to resist any logical help from people who know MLMs are a scam. The harder who try to help these people the more they dig in mentally.
Recently there was an youtube video made, about live experiment on some lake that would prove that earth is round.

The flats (flat earth believers) were exposed to fact that earth is in fact round.

When asked about it, they throw some excuse lines like its a fact of refraction and similiar.

The thing is that there are two kinds of such people.

One - poor guys who want to have even one bit of attention from the society.

Two - people who use the previous kind as a cannon fodder for the same reason - attention. But as soon as fad becomes boring they change the who they feed on.
 

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