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Amazon is Going to Slaughter Your Brand

Lionhearted

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I don't expect Amazon to be writing books anytime soon. ;)
Exactly! The "creative energy" dynamic people like you and me bring to market make us market leaders. The market "replicators" like Amazon who take proven product winners and brand them as their own will always be market followers. Every generic product eventually gets commoditized but "creative energy" and "intellectual property" can not be commiditized. That's why I love being creative. All the best.
 
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Lionhearted

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Why would they need books if they have a Washington Post in their arsenal? :smuggy:
LOL people still read "scripted" "newspapers"? BTW I am not convinced that the mainstream media Washington Compost buy by Amazon was a winner deal. But then again I don't consume mainstream media "news" so I have a huge bias.
 
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Iammelissamoore

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As I said, "the creative energy" these "nobody" brands bring to the market are part of the value proposition. I think Amazon as a big corporate entity will always be chasing the creative leaders product offerings. I don't see Amazon taking chances with risky product offerings like the "spinner craze" toys but someone brought the toys to Amazon and I am sure made a million $$$$$ off them. Amazon chases the proven winners, I don't see them leading the market because they are not as dynamic and creative as the "nobody" brand entrepreneurs. That is where the "nobody" brands beat Amazon hands down. Be fast and adaptive or get smoked.
Absolutely, well said!
 
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Amazon stopped hiring merchants many, many years ago.

They started hiring MBA's who know algorithms.

Meanwhile, Wal-Mart and Best Buy have merchants who use tools to sell stuff.

That is why Amazon Basics are basic, but when you need sourcing or merchandising expertise, Wal-Mart and Best Buy still win.
 

MJ DeMarco

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BTW I am not convinced that the mainstream media Washington Compost buy by Amazon was a winner deal.

I doubt the purchase had anything to do with money. More like, it was bought so Amazon could bullhorn their desired narratives while protecting their entrenched oligarchical interests, which of course, is further buttressed by the lobbying and political class, a class that has no party affiliation because they're all the same.

TLDR: If any discussion of an Amazon monopoly / anti-trust activities gains steam, expect WAPO to counter narrative it.
 

Lionhearted

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Amazon stopped hiring merchants many, many years ago.

They started hiring MBA's who know algorithms.

Meanwhile, Wal-Mart and Best Buy have merchants who use tools to sell stuff.

That is why Amazon Basics are basic, but when you need sourcing or merchandising expertise, Wal-Mart and Best Buy still win.

I see the Amazon Basics line as a little parasitic in nature but not much of a threat as all they are doing is taking cheap "best sellers" in a category, sourcing them and putting their name on those products. What I see happening is "nobody" brands doing the same thing in reverse by sourcing Amazon Basics products, re-branding them to "nobody" brands and selling them cheaper than Amazon.

LOL it's kind of funny really because Amazon is telling the market by branding a generic product with the Amazon Basics brand ,"Hey this products sells really well. Well enough for us to brand it with our name, jack up the price and resell it." the market being "creative" and dynamic says,"Thanks for the valuable information, I am going to take the same product put my name on it and kick your butt with a lower price!" You can see happening every time you see an Amazon Basics product if you sort the search by lowest price. So I don't see Amazon smashing brands but they certainly will take out all overpriced competitors which only helps the consumer and is a good thing for the market. Amazon is just another competitor, there is still plenty of meat left on the market's bones.
 
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businessbaybee

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Ok so for me looking at amazon, I see a really boring brand. Their brand is literally cater to everyone, their website is so ugly and not really all that user friendly.

That being said, I shop at amazon all the time, but not for clothes, ever. I definitely don't find amazon to be a cool or hip brand.

I can't see amazon crushing the luxury or young women's/juniors fashion space, simply because they don't give me a fun or aspirational shopping experience. I'd rather shop at actual FASHION brands, that have amazing imagery, creativity and emotion to captivate me.

For other products, I think it could be super dangerous for e-commerce stores, especially toys and electronics.
 

Lionhearted

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I doubt the purchase had anything to do with money. More like, it was bought so Amazon could bullhorn their desired narratives while protecting their entrenched oligarchical interests, which of course, is further buttressed by the lobbying and political class, a class that has no party affiliation because they're all the same.

TLDR: If any discussion of an Amazon monopoly / anti-trust activities gains steam, expect WAPO to counter narrative it.

Just like the horse carriage industry tried to kill the car industry, it is a weak strategy destined to fail once a superior innovation "creative energy" shows up and changes the game. When you stop innovating and start relying on government manipulation to protect your interests someone is going to show up with a superior offering and crush you with it. See the postal service as an example.
 

Almantas

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Wow, I knew this thread is going to be interesting, but not that much! So many gold nuggets!
 
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I think about this alot, what are your thoughts on Amazon making moves to buy the biggest brands in each niche to dominate their respective market?

For instance I have a hard time seeing an Amazon basic supplement line doing much damage. But if they were to buy BSN or Optimum or a huge move like that I could definitely see that being a massive problem for other sellers.

Same goes for other niches much like it. What do you think @biophase?

I can see Amazon going into the supplement business or any business where the R&D just isn't that complicated. For example, Amazon can take over diapers, napkins, plastic utensil, garbage cans, kitchen gadgets, batteries, pet supplies, etc... They can just walk into a lab and private label everything that the lab makes. If they make protein powder, it's probably going to taste crappy, but it will get the job done for many price conscious people.

I've always thought that a good strategy for Amazon would be, not to buy the brands, but to hire people from these brands. So let's say some small company is killing it on lawn furniture. I would find out who the main designer in that company is and hire him. Have them start the Amazon basics lawn furniture line. All of a sudden, this dudes gets a $10M budget and a team of 3-4 people under him. He could crank out products of higher quality than some guy at Amazon that is just private labeling everything.

I still buy Duracell batteries for important stuff. But for remote controls, toys, silly gadgets, etc... I buy a 50 pack of Amazon basics AA batteries. The don't last that long, but they are good enough.

I do compete with Amazon basics in some products, so I understand their quality. I know that there is no way to compete with them on price and quantity, but they really do go basic in terms of quality. I can import the same exact product that they sell, but I would never do that with my brand. The quality is too low. They sell 100pcs for $9.99, but I'm at 50pcs for $14.99.

It's obvious that the average buyer goes for the low price (and probably higher search rank) because they have 3000 reviews, but they are at 3.5-4 stars. I may have only 200 reviews but I'm at 4.5 stars.
 

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I suspect we'll see the following:

- Amazon will take over online sales for most "general" merchandise. Hell they kind of already have.
- Most 3rd party sellers will be left holding their dicks unless they have SERIOUS marketing chops. That's as long as amazon allows 3rd party sellers to operate in a profitable fashion anyway. The successful ones will be the guys and gals throwing serious money behind traffic/ranking/ads/etc... in profitable niches. Folks who come in with a few hundred bucks of inventory from China and calling themselves a brand won't even be a blip.

And something I don't think has been touched on in this thread yet:

- Buying from non-amazon websites will see a serious resurgence. Small brands focusing on quality, customer service, love, caring, craft, small, local, etc... will make very good money staying the hell away from Amazon and flaunting that fact (maybe not directly but through branding and messaging). They'll pride themselves on doing one or two thing really well (coffee, tea, toys, whatever) and become the next "big" micro brands with strong followings who kill it on social media, word of mouth, etc...
 

Lionhearted

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I suspect we'll see the following:

- Amazon will take over online sales for most "general" merchandise. Hell they kind of already have.
- Most 3rd party sellers will be left holding their dicks unless they have SERIOUS marketing chops. That's as long as amazon allows 3rd party sellers to operate in a profitable fashion anyway. The successful ones will be the guys and gals throwing serious money behind traffic/ranking/ads/etc... in profitable niches. Folks who come in with a few hundred bucks of inventory from China and calling themselves a brand won't even be a blip.

And something I don't think has been touched on in this thread yet:

- Buying from non-amazon websites will see a serious resurgence. Small brands focusing on quality, customer service, love, caring, craft, small, local, etc... will make very good money staying the hell away from Amazon and flaunting that fact (maybe not directly but through branding and messaging). They'll pride themselves on doing one or two thing really well (coffee, tea, toys, whatever) and become the next "big" micro brands with strong followings who kill it on social media, word of mouth, etc...

The pulling away of brands from Amazon is already happening because Amazon has gotten a little too greedy with it's fees and people are finding better value elsewhere. Shift happens. Adapt or be slaughtered applies to Amazon as well. I call them "the laws of reality" you break them and reality will spank you.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Buying from non-amazon websites will see a serious resurgence.

In general, the "buy local" and "buy from mom-and-pop" is definitely an angle that Amazon cannot compete on. And I think in this day-and-age, doing business with gigatastic corporations is not the preferred route, all things held equal. The problem is, getting to "all things held equal" -- Amazon can get you my books into your hands within 24 hours, sometimes hours; I takes me 4 days to get it into your hands.
 

Lionhearted

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In general, the "buy local" and "buy from mom-and-pop" is definitely an angle that Amazon cannot compete on. And I think in this day-and-age, doing business with gigatastic corporations is not the preferred route, all things held equal. The problem is, getting to "all things held equal" -- Amazon can get you my books into your hands within 24 hours, sometimes hours; I takes me 4 days to get it into your hands.
Amazon is one heck of a platform but you know how big a slice of your books they take. 50% of a 1,000,000 is still better than 100% of 10,000
 
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Almantas

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Amazon is one heck of a platform but you know how big a slice of your books they take. 50% of a 1,000,000 is still better than 100% of 10,000

Can you elaborate a bit more?
 

Lionhearted

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Can you elaborate a bit more?
My meaning is this, many people don't see it the right way. Bob says,"If I publish my e-book on Amazon they are going to take 30% of my sale and I am going to get 70%, So instead I am going to self publish on my own website and get 100% ." Bob goes ahead and does exactly that and sells 10,000 books at $14.99 and make a gross $149,990.00 and they had to do all the work to get to happen (Website, marketing, SEO, fulfillment, etc., etc,). Instead they could have leveraged the power of Amazon (for free btw, they don't charge you to publish e-books) and reached a huge market and sold 1,000,000 books at $14.99 and made a gross of $14,990,000.00 of which Amazon would have pocketed $4,497,000.00 (30%), but Bob kept $10,493,000.00. So which would you rather have 100% of $149,990.00 or 70% $14,990,000.00?
I see this in Shark Tank all the time, the entrepreneur is going nowhere with their product, service or idea but is unwilling to make a deal because the Shark wants too much, so they walk away with nothing instead of leveraging the power of an established, wealthy and connected partner. Amazon is an established, wealthy and connected partner but they too are the Shark they want their cut. I focus on the infinite not the finite. All the best.
 

Almantas

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My meaning is this, many people don't see it the right way. Bob says,"If I publish my e-book on Amazon they are going to take 30% of my sale and I am going to get 70%, So instead I am going to self publish on my own website and get 100% ." Bob goes ahead and does exactly that and sells 10,000 books at $14.99 and make a gross $149,990.00 and they had to do all the work to get to happen (Website, marketing, SEO, fulfillment, etc., etc,). Instead they could have leveraged the power of Amazon (for free btw, they don't charge you to publish e-books) and reached a huge market and sold 1,000,000 books at $14.99 and made a gross of $14,990,000.00 of which Amazon would have pocketed $4,497,000.00 (30%), but Bob kept $10,493,000.00. So which would you rather have 100% of $149,990.00 or 70% $14,990,000.00?
I see this in Shark Tank all the time, the entrepreneur is going nowhere with their product, service or idea but is unwilling to make a deal because the Shark wants too much, so they walk away with nothing instead of leveraging the power of an established, wealthy and connected partner. Amazon is an established, wealthy and connected partner but they too are the Shark they want their cut. I focus on the infinite not the finite. All the best.

Thanks for replying!

I am not an e-com expert, but if I wanted to make money selling stuff online I would definitely use Amazon/Ebay to kick-off by selling as many products as possible - by doing so I would be able to collect tons of customer feedback, gain some spotlight in a market and then slowly pump customers from Amazon to my personal website - in case Amazon decides to penalize me for something I didn't do.
 
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Lionhearted

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Thanks for replying!

I am not an e-com expert, but if I wanted to make money selling stuff online I would definitely use Amazon/Ebay to kick-off by selling as many products as possible - by doing so I would be able to collect tons of customer feedback, gain some spotlight in a market and then slowly pump customers from Amazon to my personal website - in case Amazon decides to penalize me for something I didn't do.
That is the smart way to play the game. Leverage the power of Amazon to build your brand till you no longer require them to build your brand. Thanks
 

Iammelissamoore

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The pulling away of brands from Amazon is already happening because Amazon has gotten a little too greedy with it's fees and people are finding better value elsewhere. Shift happens. Adapt or be slaughtered applies to Amazon as well. I call them "the laws of reality" you break them and reality will spank you.
Just asking a question - is this what can (usually) happen whenever a company goes public? In some way, it feels as if a company goes public, it's all about a race in making money for the share holders, no longer about the customers who got them where they are?!?!
 

Eskil

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It is the large and medium sellers that have a simple non-brand loyal product that should be worried about Amazon basics. If you are selling garbage cans or kitchen cutting boards, you could get crushed by them. Products that require some semblance of R&D are probably not going to be taken over by Amazon basics. They aren't coming out with sunglasses that will rival Oakley's or Rayban, but they might squeeze out the smaller sellers selling ordinary ones.

This exactly, I agree. All the "me too", arbitragers on Amazon will over time just get squeezed out, or best case - still make money - but face an never ending, race to the bottom for pricing against other "me too" arbitragers, and things lik Amazon Basics.

And branding is one thing on its own (and no, branding is NOT just slapping your $5 Fiverr logo on your Alibaba import), but another is being different enough and adding enough new value to a product that will keep a brand that much stronger also. Independent websites (Shopify, etc) will still do well as long as they don't rely only on just flipping and repackaging Alibaba stuff like every other arbitrage entrepreneur out there.

The best way to survive long term is, and always will be, to create/provide something that is YOURS and uniquely yours. And preferably something that is challenging for someone else to rip off. Differentiation and unique value.

Whether you are a small or medium/big seller on Amazon, don't rely on all your products just being imported en-masse with just a logo slapped on, and "having an optimized listing". It can make good money for a while on Amazon, but never forget you are dealing with partial lack of control, a violation of one of the CENTS commandments. I always tell people the sooner you can establish your own sales channel (website) and control that, do it. Amazon should just be one of your sales channels.

And lastly - people often tend to forget there is a world out there. Amazon is huge in the US, sure. But in other massive markets such as Europe and Asia - Amazon is small or insignificant compared to other market forces there. There is soooo much opportunity.
 
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Walter Hay

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This exactly, I agree. All the "me too", arbitragers on Amazon will over time just get squeezed out, or best case - still make money - but face an never ending, race to the bottom for pricing against other "me too" arbitragers, and things lik Amazon Basics.

And branding is one thing on its own (and no, branding is NOT just slapping your $5 Fiverr logo on your Alibaba import), but another is being different enough and adding enough new value to a product that will keep a brand that much stronger also. Independent websites (Shopify, etc) will still do well as long as they don't rely only on just flipping and repackaging Alibaba stuff like every other arbitrage entrepreneur out there.

The best way to survive long term is, and always will be, to create/provide something that is YOURS and uniquely yours. And preferably something that is challenging for someone else to rip off. Differentiation and unique value.

Whether you are a small or medium/big seller on Amazon, don't rely on all your products just being imported en-masse with just a logo slapped on, and "having an optimized listing". It can make good money for a while on Amazon, but never forget you are dealing with partial lack of control, a violation of one of the CENTS commandments. I always tell people the sooner you can establish your own sales channel (website) and control that, do it. Amazon should just be one of your sales channels.

And lastly - people often tend to forget there is a world out there. Amazon is huge in the US, sure. But in other massive markets such as Europe and Asia - Amazon is small or insignificant compared to other market forces there. There is soooo much opportunity.
I completely agree about the need to do better than simply repackaging Alibaba stuff. Too many have been doing that for too long and the Amazon "experts" are still teaching that as the way to go.

Unique products can still be found, but few are willing to make the extra effort required, although that effort can be considerably less than re-engineering existing products, or designing something totally new. I applaud those who do both, but finding unique products should not be ignored as an option.

As for slapping on a $5 Fiverr logo, that also is part of many e-commerce courses and does little to disguise the sameness that prevails among those who lack real marketing ability. They call it Private Labeling, but it's a poor way to differentiate. Helping overcome this problem was behind my writing of my second book about creating and sourcing labels and packaging that can help sell the product.

Finally, anyone relying only on Amazon has all their eggs in one basket, and that basket is being shaken.

Walter
 
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Finally, anyone relying only on Amazon has all their eggs in one basket, and that basket is being shaken.

That is one of the best statements in this thread.

First and foremost, never forget that we as an Amazon seller are just a 'fulfillment center' for Amazon. They are ALL Amazons' customers and it is against their TOS to proselytize THEIR customers into buying outside of the Amazon marketplace. Anyone caught flagrantly doing this will usually find the exit without desiring to.

For me, they are just a necessary evil on creating revenue.

A revenue stream.

There is just too much loss of CONTROL. I look at them strictly as a marketing medium to move multiple products faster and in larger SCALE than I could ever personally do on my own. Cheaper? I am not sure about that, but definitely larger scale coupled with the ability to sell a gamut of products that would not work on a niche website.

But...

I believe one better have multiple ways of marketing via their own:
  • website(s),
  • wholesale distributing if possible,
  • and even B&M sales to others
Another aspect also is that one can usually react faster when one sees opportunities that Amazon cannot necessarily 'compete' against even though one is utilizing Amazon for the sale.

Case in point: I market many, many different products on Amazon. I do not import directly any product I sell.

We all hear a different drummer, though we all consider ourselves entrepreneurs.

I have found that I can obtain products either locally manufactured or distributed (nationally distributed, but local) and acquire them within 24 hours of a fulfilled sale and not have to stock the merchandise. It can be done with inventory feeds and the like. Of course it has to be worth the time to pick up the product so there needs to be measurable sales. With enough varied products from the distribution point, one can do quite well. This works great when there are only a few available in sizes as an example because all other sellers are fearful to list the size and dropship due to the fact that they might be sold out before they were shipped. Mind you, these products sell for a minimum of $80-$150 each. We sell hundreds of the products this way monthly.

Also, another example that we have just had approved is negotiating a price and terms on discontinued products from a national manufacturer. These product 'styles' are in the hundreds with tens of variances each, thus creating thousands of potential sales. They are taking up too much inventory space for the mfgr and so he is a 'don't wanter' These items have been sold on Amazon for years in the a very popular category. The terms were awesome, to the point that they are willing to dropship for us providing we move the product fast enough.
So, the first option is to relist everything back on AZ (among other avenues) at a profitable discount and sell quickly, though that could very well take months as the inventory has variances. But, again not just Amazon, but contacting other companies that can utilize the product ie: better profits.

One has to develop a relationship by starting out small, but there are LOCAL suppliers/mfgrs that if the time is spent, it can be incredibly profitable.

Practice nimble.
 

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Finally, anyone relying only on Amazon has all their eggs in one basket, and that basket is being shaken.
Commandment of Control.

In both TMF , Unscripted and countless Process/Progress Threads, we have been warned about this 'all eggs in one basket scenario.' Hopefully the businesses which will be horribly affected have prepped by diversifying, including creation of their own platform to salvage their business in some way, form or manner.

I absolutely agree with that whole concept of buying the common alibaba stuff and repackaging - I'm not trying to knock anyone if that's their hustle; but, again, it goes against the Commandment of Entry also and when we're treading too thinly where the Commandments are concerned, we can overstand where that can lead us.
 

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Amazon is getting so large, that will start disintegrating from the middle in both directions.
 

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Amazon jumped into supplements in March 2017: TechCrunch-AmazonElements

In the last 6 months the number of decent sized private label product Amazon businesses I have noticed come up for sale has been increasing (net incomes of $100K-2million). Asking price multiples have been rising at the same time.

Makes me wonder if the INSIDERS are getting out (worried about competition from the Chinese factories and Amazon) and the dumb money is pushing the top up.
 

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Amazon jumped into supplements in March 2017: TechCrunch-AmazonElements

In the last 6 months the number of decent sized private label product Amazon businesses I have noticed come up for sale has been increasing (net incomes of $100K-2million). Asking price multiples have been rising at the same time.

Makes me wonder if the INSIDERS are getting out (worried about competition from the Chinese factories and Amazon) and the dumb money is pushing the top up.
If other bubbles are anything to go by, both things are happening. The jig is up, people are getting out, and fools are getting in.
 

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