Am I getting scammed?! Alibaba (Overseas Importing Payment Options)

[Malcolm_X]

But it's fine to use a paypal upfront payment, when ordering only samples, right ?

It wouldn't make sense for them to scam people for $40 and losing trust and future business.

 

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[Jake]

But it's fine to use a paypal upfront payment, when ordering only samples, right ?

It wouldn't make sense for them to scam people for $40 and losing trust and future business.

It does if that's their business model..selling a lot of shitty samples to people can be lucrative.

But I'd go with paypal

 

[Georgy]

But it's fine to use a paypal upfront payment, when ordering only samples, right ?

It wouldn't make sense for them to scam people for $40 and losing trust and future business.

Yup, go through Paypal for an order of $40 (if the seller accepts PP).

 

[Malcolm_X]

It does if that's their business model..selling a lot of shitty samples to people can be lucrative.

But I'd go with paypal

that's a really good point actually.
Will go ahead with paypal then.

 

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[Vincent_Vega]

Thanks for pointing out my slip. About the only alternative you have is to pay the deposit by another means such as T/T, and the larger balance via PayPal. That way at least the larger part of your risk will have some protection. PayPal won't know that the amount you have paid through them is not the full amount.

Walter

In general, would it be advisable to pay the whole amount via PP/CC upfront to get full protection on it? I would guess not?

PS: Thanks for answering all these questions, Walter. Really generous to share your knowledge with us.

 

[Walter Hay]

So if PP doesn't want to help me, the cc company will take care of the claim. But when they charge back the money, will they take it from PP then? Does that really work so easy?

And after reading your thread, it seems that the only really safe option is an escrow service, right? Paying escrow.com via wire would cost me as much of a fee as paying directly via Paypal.
And deposit/balance wouldn't be necessary then, right? Paying the whole price upfront would be safe?

Suppliers will usually still require a deposit because that practice is so entrenched in Chinese business mentality. The deposit is primarily to pay for their upfront costs.

Yes, the CC company will take the money back from PP. It is quite easy.

Escrow and L.C are the safest. The costs are high but so is the level of protection.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

In general, would it be advisable to pay the whole amount via PP/CC upfront to get full protection on it? I would guess not?

PS: Thanks for answering all these questions, Walter. Really generous to share your knowledge with us.

You will need to check with your CC company to see what protection they provide for commercial purchases. Some won't protect such transactions at all. Others impose limits on the amount.

Walter

 

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[Vincent_Vega]

Thanks for pointing out my slip. About the only alternative you have is to pay the deposit by another means such as T/T, and the larger balance via PayPal. That way at least the larger part of your risk will have some protection. PayPal won't know that the amount you have paid through them is not the full amount.

Walter

If I ask for buyer protection, PP will ask for the invoice of the purchase. There they will see that it wasn't the full amount. So that won't work, right?

 

[Walter Hay]

If I ask for buyer protection, PP will ask for the invoice of the purchase. There they will see that it wasn't the full amount. So that won't work, right?

Yes that's right, but I think your biggest problem in relying on PP and CC for protection is the limits on commercial purchases.

Walter

 

[Vincent_Vega]

Yes that's right, but I think your biggest problem in relying on PP and CC for protection is the limits on commercial purchases.

Walter

Looking through their terms, I don't see that they limit commercial purchases. The cc company limits every case to a specified sum, but I'm not exceeding it for now.
So I guess it all comes down to having a good supplier or relying on your cc company if you can't use escrow.com or L/C.

 

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[MotiveInMotion]

Hey @Walter Hay, thanks for all the info you've provided! Glad to take it from someone with as much experience as yourself. I didn't know about some of the caveats and faults of trade assurance & PayPal protection.

You've stated that Alibaba is not the best platform, or the main one you use, correct?

Going forward, what is the ideal way - a platform like made-in-china, Escrow.com, and PayPal just for samples?

I feel we can all inch towards our ideal situation so we can mitigate the most risk in health, business, and relationship etc. so what would you suggest for the best situation?

I've used PayPal for samples up 'til this point and wire transfers each time to the supplier bank acct. but would obviously love to do everything better and more efficient.

Thanks again!

 

[Walter Hay]

Hey @Walter Hay, thanks for all the info you've provided! Glad to take it from someone with as much experience as yourself. I didn't know about some of the caveats and faults of trade assurance & PayPal protection.

You've stated that Alibaba is not the best platform, or the main one you use, correct?

Going forward, what is the ideal way - a platform like made-in-china, Escrow.com, and PayPal just for samples?

I feel we can all inch towards our ideal situation so we can mitigate the most risk in health, business, and relationship etc. so what would you suggest for the best situation?

I've used PayPal for samples up 'til this point and wire transfers each time to the supplier bank acct. but would obviously love to do everything better and more efficient.

Thanks again!

Alibaba can be used but with great care. The main caution I would offer is to not believe everything you read there. Check it all for yourself. If an SGS report is offered, read it all.

That applies to all B2B sites that show badges indicating that there are independent reports for a supplier. Don't just proceed because the listing has an Audit Report.

PayPal for samples is usually OK, but I suggest you read this post where I cautioned about scams that PayPal protection won't cover unless you are very careful.

You might also like to read my post on the subject of Payment Terms: Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

Walter

 

[MotiveInMotion]

Alibaba can be used but with great care. The main caution I would offer is to not believe everything you read there. Check it all for yourself. If an SGS report is offered, read it all.

That applies to all B2B sites that show badges indicating that there are independent reports for a supplier. Don't just proceed because the listing has an Audit Report.

PayPal for samples is usually OK, but I suggest you read this post where I cautioned about scams that PayPal protection won't cover unless you are very careful.

You might also like to read my post on the subject of Payment Terms: Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

Walter

Understood. Thank you very much!

I have also read your notes on PayPal'ing the full order, and would not do that unless I were in a position to video the opening; good call.

Most suppliers will really send & ship, and show you the air/freight bill before they get paid? I think most want a deposit before they start and then the rest at shipping time, correct?

 

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[Walter Hay]

Understood. Thank you very much!

I have also read your notes on PayPal'ing the full order, and would not do that unless I were in a position to video the opening; good call.

Most suppliers will really send & ship, and show you the air/freight bill before they get paid? I think most want a deposit before they start and then the rest at shipping time, correct?

None will ship before receiving full payment unless they are in possession of your Letter of Credit. An L/C guarantees payment as long as they have met absolutely and precisely every condition listed in the L/C.

The only other time they will ship before receiving full payment is when you have obtained the rare privilege of a monthly account, (unless you are a multinational like Adidas, Gucci, Apple or Nike.)

That rare privilege is obtainable for small importers who have developed a good relationship with their supplier and who place several orders per month. If you have the latest edition of my book, have a look at Chapter 15.1 Possibility of Obtaining Monthly Terms. That section explains how it can be done.

I wrote that valuable section as a result of my personal experience. My relationship with my suppliers was so good that I was able to pass on that privilege of a monthly account automatically to my franchisees who operated my importing business in four countries. When I signed up a new franchisee I contacted all suppliers and requested that they allow them a monthly account on the same payment terms as I had.

The franchise agreement provided for forfeiture of the franchise if the monthly account terms with a supplier were not honored. I never had to invoke that clause.

Walter

 

[MotiveInMotion]

None will ship before receiving full payment unless they are in possession of your Letter of Credit. An L/C guarantees payment as long as they have met absolutely and precisely every condition listed in the L/C.

The only other time they will ship before receiving full payment is when you have obtained the rare privilege of a monthly account, (unless you are a multinational like Adidas, Gucci, Apple or Nike.)

That rare privilege is obtainable for small importers who have developed a good relationship with their supplier and who place several orders per month. If you have the latest edition of my book, have a look at Chapter 15.1 Possibility of Obtaining Monthly Terms. That section explains how it can be done.

I wrote that valuable section as a result of my personal experience. My relationship with my suppliers was so good that I was able to pass on that privilege of a monthly account automatically to my franchisees who operated my importing business in four countries. When I signed up a new franchisee I contacted all suppliers and requested that they allow them a monthly account on the same payment terms as I had.

The franchise agreement provided for forfeiture of the franchise if the monthly account terms with a supplier were not honored. I never had to invoke that clause.

Walter

Right on, I see.

So basically it's either L/C if they'll accept, or a T/T with a trusted supplier. No full PayPal payments except maybe a sample, and paying the company/owner account directly.

 

[Walter Hay]

Right on, I see.

So basically it's either L/C if they'll accept, or a T/T with a trusted supplier. No full PayPal payments except maybe a sample, and paying the company/owner account directly.

Yes, in summary: L/C or escrow.com (if they will accept escrow) are as safe as you can get, with the added advantage of being a great means of being sure they meet your specifications. T/T is very nearly universally used for shipments up to about $2,000. I have explained the risks, but that is the method most importers use. PayPal for a full order is costly and does not always provide the protection most people think. Payment direct to the company owner is OK provided you can be sure it is the owner.

Walter

 

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[MotiveInMotion]

@Walter Hay

Thank you sir.