Am I getting scammed?! Alibaba (Overseas Importing Payment Options)

[HyperFocus]

So several factories have finally agreed to produce the product I want, it took some time.

one is asking that I pay through T/T or Western Union..? I read T/T payment can be safely done through alibaba? WU im never doing.

I searched up the company on Google and they seem legit.

 

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[BaraQueenbee]

Western Union sounds instantly fishy to me.

I googled the subject:
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/593/Western_Union_Payments.htm
http://service.alibaba.com/buyer/faq_detail/13886869.htm

http://community.tradekey.com/forum/topic-1021/Be_Aware_of_Alibabacom_Scammers/20.html

I'm sorry I couldnt be of more help, maybe the more experienced Alibaba buyers can tell you more...

 

[oimate]

Cant see why any respectable and legimate company wont have the paypal facility set up.

Western Union is way to dodgy and there is no come back.

I only deal with paypal and if that means losing out on the 'perfect producer' so be it.

 

[Phones]

Cant see why any respectable and legimate company wont have the paypal facility set up.

Western Union is way to dodgy and there is no come back.

I only deal with paypal and if that means losing out on the 'perfect producer' so be it.

I don't know a single legit factory that accepts Paypal, the ones that do end up not doing it. One thing is selling 200 units of a 20$ item and having 2 or 3 scammers, another is having people claiming back thousands of dollars worth of product, or paypal just randomly freezing their funds.

Paypal and China don't have a good relationship.

I've done WU transfers of up to 2000€ but with suppliers I've started with 300€ transactions. You have to find ways to find if your supplier is trustworthy and build a relationship.

Also, the most common transfer method is Bank Transfer, but it's costly, here in Portugal costs around 39€ each transfer.

There are not that many people scamming on Alibaba, I never found one but it may depend on industry. Your biggest concern will be quality issues, delays, trading companies disguising as factories, etc.

 

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[Tehcasa]

There's countless suppliers on Alibaba and millions accept PayPal as a payment option. For you, I would rule out any possible outcome of suppliers providing you with other payment methods, (if this is your first time importing). PayPal is the number setting stone if you're a startup.
My advice? Find a supplier who accepts Paypal. If you're having trouble determining whether a supplier is reliable or not, message me and I'll give you a fast guide on how to assess if a supplier is reputable or not. So many startups use dogmatic sense to disarray any suppliers on Alibaba, because they solely don't believe any are reliable, or alternatively... that any gold suppliers higher than 5+ years are the go-to. This is incredibly wrong, and that's WHY I want to you help you out. PM anytime, and I'll get back to you immediately

 

[MitchC]

I don't know a single legit factory that accepts Paypal, the ones that do end up not doing it. One thing is selling 200 units of a 20$ item and having 2 or 3 scammers, another is having people claiming back thousands of dollars worth of product, or paypal just randomly freezing their funds.

Paypal and China don't have a good relationship.

I've done WU transfers of up to 2000€ but with suppliers I've started with 300€ transactions. You have to find ways to find if your supplier is trustworthy and build a relationship.

Also, the most common transfer method is Bank Transfer, but it's costly, here in Portugal costs around 39€ each transfer.

There are not that many people scamming on Alibaba, I never found one but it may depend on industry. Your biggest concern will be quality issues, delays, trading companies disguising as factories, etc.

This.

I used bank transfer for my first purchase thinking it was safer but my bank charged me like $50 and then the factory told me there was another $50 somewhere along the way and I don't know if it's true or not. Since then I have used western union with no issues at all. I've also used PayPal for samples but it's uncommon, I think it's almost something only a small trading company would use in China.

If you're looking for iPods or other brands then it doesn't matter how you pay you're getting scammed. If you're looking for anything else, do some basic due diligence and you should be fine no matter how you pay.

Asking for payment by western union should be no cause for alarm by itself. Although it's wierd they don't offer bank transfer aswell.

 

[Vigilante]

@Walter Hay

 

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[DrkSide]

I used bank transfer for my first purchase thinking it was safer but my bank charged me like $50 and then the factory told me there was another $50 somewhere along the way and I don't know if it's true or not.

This depends on which bank you use and what their policies are. All banks charge for wire and most have an intermediary bank that they have to go through to get the money overseas. That is where the extra $50 came from.

Example.

You bank with Bank A and need to send money to your supplier that has an account with Bank C. Bank A and Bank C don't have a relationship so they use Bank B as a "hop" for the money. Bank B takes a fee for this.

My wife was an international wire specialist so if you have any other questions just PM me.

 

[MitchC]

This depends on which bank you use and what their policies are. All banks charge for wire and most have an intermediary bank that they have to go through to get the money overseas. That is where the extra $50 came from.

Example.

You bank with Bank A and need to send money to your supplier that has an account with Bank C. Bank A and Bank C don't have a relationship so they use Bank B as a "hop" for the money. Bank B takes a fee for this.

My wife was an international wire specialist so if you have any other questions just PM me.

Yeah that's how it was explained to me, even my bank said it when I transfered it, going from nz to China via USA, what I meant is, there's no way to verify that or how much it was, you have to take the suppliers word, with western union, it's $25 and that's it.

 

[DrkSide]

there's no way to verify that or how much it was

You can contact your bank and ask what their intermediary bank charges. Someone in the wire room should be able to tell you.

Mine charges $30 per wire and the intermediary charges $25 so I just add the $25 on to each payment and it ends up correct. The bank charges me fees at the end of the month based on how many wires I send so that doesn't affect the payment.

 

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[HyperFocus]

There's countless suppliers on Alibaba and millions accept PayPal as a payment option. For you, I would rule out any possible outcome of suppliers providing you with other payment methods, (if this is your first time importing). PayPal is the number setting stone if you're a startup.
My advice? Find a supplier who accepts Paypal. If you're having trouble determining whether a supplier is reliable or not, message me and I'll give you a fast guide on how to assess if a supplier is reputable or not. So many startups use dogmatic sense to disarray any suppliers on Alibaba, because they solely don't believe any are reliable, or alternatively... that any gold suppliers higher than 5+ years are the go-to. This is incredibly wrong, and that's WHY I want to you help you out. PM anytime, and I'll get back to you immediately

My paypal is blocked and I dont want to use my friends/families.

What about Escrow?

 

[Hong King Kong]

If you absolutely have no other choice... you just have to bite the bullet.

I've transferred 10k once to a supplier, I got the goods delivered. luckily.

A lot of business in China is done like this, just verbal agreements and trust... it builds "guan xi"

 

[Walter Hay]

This.

I used bank transfer for my first purchase thinking it was safer but my bank charged me like $50 and then the factory told me there was another $50 somewhere along the way and I don't know if it's true or not. Since then I have used western union with no issues at all. I've also used PayPal for samples but it's uncommon, I think it's almost something only a small trading company would use in China.

If you're looking for iPods or other brands then it doesn't matter how you pay you're getting scammed. If you're looking for anything else, do some basic due diligence and you should be fine no matter how you pay.

Asking for payment by western union should be no cause for alarm by itself. Although it's wierd they don't offer bank transfer aswell.

If you have had no losses as a result of paying via Western Union, I suggest you invest in a big lottery. Asking for payment via Western Union without any option is the biggest red flag in importing. In poker, a slick player will often deliberately lose the first few hands to make his opponents over-confident. Scammers do the same with WU.

You are quite right in suspecting that PayPal is almost always something only a small trading company would use in China. Tehcasa (quoted below) clearly thinks otherwise, and his advice to only use suppliers who offer payment via PayPal limits buyers to dealing with traders, not manufacturers. See my AMA thread for reasons why you should deal with manufacturers not traders. (There are a small number of manufacturers who do use PayPal.)

I have also posted in my thread Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. regarding scams in which payment through PayPal has not provided protection against scams.

There's countless suppliers on Alibaba and millions accept PayPal as a payment option. For you, I would rule out any possible outcome of suppliers providing you with other payment methods, (if this is your first time importing). PayPal is the number setting stone if you're a startup.
My advice? Find a supplier who accepts Paypal. If you're having trouble determining whether a supplier is reliable or not, message me and I'll give you a fast guide on how to assess if a supplier is reputable or not. So many startups use dogmatic sense to disarray any suppliers on Alibaba, because they solely don't believe any are reliable, or alternatively... that any gold suppliers higher than 5+ years are the go-to. This is incredibly wrong, and that's WHY I want to you help you out. PM anytime, and I'll get back to you immediately

Sorry Tehcasa, but as you are saying that advice that I have given is "incredibly wrong", I feel that a reply is warranted.

• I have dealt with the PayPal issue above.
  
• I am dogmatic on some issues because I have been directly involved in importing since 1987 (about 8 or 9 years before Tehcasa was born) and I have seen too many people scammed, so I must try to help them avoid that.
  
• I have never said that there are no reputable suppliers on Alibaba. There are some, and many buyers have successfully built importing businesses by using them. My main point is that when there is so much dishonesty in Alibaba listings, and so many thousands of people have been scammed, why use such a risky sourcing platform?
• Thousands of people have been scammed by Gold Suppliers as I have reported and discussed in my AMA thread and I have explained in detail that a Gold Supplier badge does nothing to make a supplier more reliable or trustworthy than any other verified supplier. Also that the verification process is a joke.

If you want to offer to teach others how to source and import, I suggest that you get a bit more importing experience rather than giving up importing after 3 years or so. You are keen, and you have had some success, and I have wished you continuing success and have helped you previously via PM, but I suggest that your start into teaching the subject is probably a bit premature.

Walter

 

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[Walter Hay]

My paypal is blocked and I dont want to use my friends/families.

What about Escrow?

If you are buying from a supplier on Alibaba, you need to know that their old escrow service no longer exists. The name has been changed for legal reasons since the float on the NYSE. It is now called Secure Payment. Just like their old escrow system, this scheme is full of loopholes. Few people bother reading the fine print, but I am one of the few that do. I can tell you that the fine print contains contradictions and is missing information that is very important to buyers.

The biggest problem is the time limit. If you are lucky enough to find a real manufacturer on Alibaba (most are traders even if they claim to be manufacturers) you might think you are protected, but remember to read Alibaba's fine print regarding their Secure Payment service. It has a short time limit for you to lodge a dispute and many suppliers are expert at procrastinating until that time limit runs out.

There are other problems, such as the risk of refusal of your claim if you sign for a parcel and it contains wood shavings, newspaper, or maybe an empty plastic casing instead of the phone you ordered.

Don't forget the huge cost of returning any faulty product. Suppliers on Alibaba will invariably require that before they will issue a refund. That is one of the many ways they manage to avoid refunding money.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

If you absolutely have no other choice... you just have to bite the bullet.

I've transferred 10k once to a supplier, I got the goods delivered. luckily.

A lot of business in China is done like this, just verbal agreements and trust... it builds "guan xi"

There's no guan xi if the money is paid and the goods are not delivered. The relationship is then non-existent.

Never rely on luck. There is no need to.

Walter

 

[Tehcasa]

If you have had no losses as a result of paying via Western Union, I suggest you invest in a big lottery. Asking for payment via Western Union without any option is the biggest red flag in importing. In poker, a slick player will often deliberately lose the first few hands to make his opponents over-confident. Scammers do the same with WU.

You are quite right in suspecting that PayPal is almost something only a small trading company would use in China. Tehcasa (quoted below) clearly thinks otherwise, and his advice to only use suppliers who offer payment via PayPal limits buyers to dealing with traders, not manufacturers. See my AMA thread for reasons why you should deal with manufacturers not traders. (There are a small number of manufacturers who do use PayPal.)

I have also posted in my thread Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. regarding scams in which payment through PayPal has not provided protection against scams.



Sorry Tehcasa, but as you are saying that advice that I have given is "incredibly wrong", I feel that a reply is warranted.

• I have dealt with the PayPal issue above.
  
• I am dogmatic on some issues because I have been directly involved in importing since 1987 (about 8 or 9 years before Tehcasa was born) and I have seen too many people scammed, so I must try to help them avoid that.
  
• I have never said that there are no reputable suppliers on Alibaba. There are some, and many buyers have successfully built importing businesses by using them. My main point is that when there is so much dishonesty in Alibaba listings, and so many thousands of people have been scammed, why use such a risky sourcing platform?
• Thousands of people have been scammed by Gold Suppliers as I have reported and discussed in my AMA thread and I have explained in detail that a Gold Supplier badge does nothing to make a supplier more reliable or trustworthy than any other verified supplier. Also that the verification process is a joke.

If you want to offer to teach others how to source and import, I suggest that you get a bit more importing experience rather than giving up importing after 3 years or so. You are keen, and you have had some success, and I have wished you continuing success and have helped you previously via PM, but I suggest that your start into teaching the subject is probably a bit premature.

Walter

I totally disagree Walter.

You say you've been involved in importing since 1987, the grounds have changed since your millennium, (however I'm not saying you are wrong in everything you say, you're a great guy and I respect you for your contribution to the Fastlane Forum).

Look I'm not trying to start war with you, but in my 3 years of experience as an importer... I myself have had issues with Alibaba scammers.

-- You're being very dogmatic. Plus I never made any acquisitions stating "Walter thinks there's no reputable suppliers on Alibaba?"
There are many, not some. And yes... I an many other people I KNOW have built successful importing businesses accompanied with reputable suppliers.

-- I half/way agree with dishonesty in Alibaba listings. Yet this is a very shallow remark to make. Many suppliers are homogeneous, obviously. That said, you can compare company listings of those who sell these "similar products". By eliminating suppliers whose company/product listing display "too good to be true" specifications (unless what they say is true). And you can converse this speculation by specifically contacting them in a one-on-one real time chat. Then you're free from neglecting a supplier.

-- Why use such a risky platform? Are you nuts man. Alibaba is insanely big, and let along new startups fall for traps set by many few outsider scammers. Yes pro importers have also been scammed, but this happens in an importing business or any business let alone. Miss-communication with a Chinese person? Who hasn't had this problem before. It shouldn't stop you from importing at all, or whatever other platform you recommend new startups to use.

-- Gold Supplier badge does nothing to make a supplier more reliable or trustworthy than any other verified supplier? That's BS. Yeah scammers can pay for a Gold badge, but a majority are not scammers. This is ludicrous.

Experience to teach new importers? I literally gave the same advice passed down by Will Mitchell - Founder of Startupbros who states:
"Don’t pay with any other method but PayPal for the first 6 months with your supplier. This eliminates a ton of risk." I took this advice at the start of my importing startup and It significantly drove my business.

I'm insanely keen about my success and helping other importers startup. And I totally thank you for the help you have provided me via PM, but saying that I am "Premature"? I find this statement unacceptable? I'm apart of the younger generation, and you yourself know that this age is proclaimed to be tech-only... with kids always using their phones, electronic devices, or whatever facet you want to incriminate us with. But there are a few like myself (and this is not being arrogant, I'm stating a fact), who want to become the next big entrepreneur. And saying something so infringing sort of hurts me (especially from a role-model).

That's my reply. I know some won't take this lightly, so keep in mind I respect Walter and everything he's done for me and entire importing community.

Pat

 

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[Phones]

@Tehcasa you say you totally disagree but the you go on to agree on a majority of stuff

I too use Alibaba and don't think there is other sourcing platform out there with the size and product display it has. @Walter Hay advices other platforms and explains why Alibaba isn't that good of a platform, and yes the Gold status is BS as it is because it's just a payment the supplier does. Now, it's more likely that legit suppliers pay for Gold Status than scamers, but that doesn't rule them out unfortunately. Verification is also BS, even outsourced company reports claiming they are factories when they are clearly not...

So while I do partly agree with you on not discarding Alibaba, I've also been importing for 3 years, and the only "suppliers" who accepted Paypal were small trading companies. One of them contacted me after 1 year asking me if I had gotten the money back because Paypal froze their funds... I'm now using a super legit factory, and the guy did me a favor of buying me a smartphone and sending me, I paid him by Paypal, guess what, after 1 month the account got frozen and he asked me to claim back.

When you are dealing with mid-big sized factories, the chance of them accepting Paypal is close to zero, it's just a risk they are not willing to take because any reputable importer will use bank transfer. Only "kids" looking to get a few samples here and there ask for Paypal payments (I did too myself).

I've visited 7 factories on my last visit to China, none accept Paypal.

So yes, limiting to Paypal payments will not only limit the number of suppliers, but will also lead to low quality ones and most likely trading companies.

Now... NEVER pay by WU if that's the only payment method they accept, that's scam alert 200%... If they accept WU I always ask for bank details first, that will give you another layer of security.

 

[Vigilante]

I totally disagree Walter.

You say you've been involved in importing since 1987, the grounds have changed since your millennium, (however I'm not saying you are wrong in everything you say, you're a great guy and I respect you for your contribution to the Fastlane Forum).

Look I'm not trying to start war with you, but in my 3 years of experience as an importer... I myself have had issues with Alibaba scammers.

-- You're being very dogmatic. Plus I never made any acquisitions stating "Walter thinks there's no reputable suppliers on Alibaba?"
There are many, not some. And yes... I an many other people I KNOW have built successful importing businesses accompanied with reputable suppliers.

-- I half/way agree with dishonesty in Alibaba listings. Yet this is a very shallow remark to make. Many suppliers are homogeneous, obviously. That said, you can compare company listings of those who sell these "similar products". By eliminating suppliers whose company/product listing display "too good to be true" specifications (unless what they say is true). And you can converse this speculation by specifically contacting them in a one-on-one real time chat. Then you're free from neglecting a supplier.

-- Why use such a risky platform? Are you nuts man. Alibaba is insanely big, and let along new startups fall for traps set by many few outsider scammers. Yes pro importers have also been scammed, but this happens in an importing business or any business let alone. Miss-communication with a Chinese person? Who hasn't had this problem before. It shouldn't stop you from importing at all, or whatever other platform you recommend new startups to use.

-- Gold Supplier badge does nothing to make a supplier more reliable or trustworthy than any other verified supplier? That's BS. Yeah scammers can pay for a Gold badge, but a majority are not scammers. This is ludicrous.

Experience to teach new importers? I literally gave the same advice passed down by Will Mitchell - Founder of Startupbros who states:
"Don’t pay with any other method but PayPal for the first 6 months with your supplier. This eliminates a ton of risk." I took this advice at the start of my importing startup and It significantly drove my business.

I'm insanely keen about my success and helping other importers startup. And I totally thank you for the help you have provided me via PM, but saying that I am "Premature"? I find this statement unacceptable? I'm apart of the younger generation, and you yourself know that this age is proclaimed to be tech-only... with kids always using their phones, electronic devices, or whatever facet you want to incriminate us with. But there are a few like myself (and this is not being arrogant, I'm stating a fact), who want to become the next big entrepreneur. And saying something so infringing sort of hurts me (especially from a role-model).

That's my reply. I know some won't take this lightly, so keep in mind I respect Walter and everything he's done for me and entire importing community.

Pat

You are welcome to stop listening to people with decades of experience. Some people need to put their hands directly into the fire to know that it burns.

You're 18. You don't know what you don't know. I remember what it was like to be where you are at. When I was 21, I thought I knew everything. Now in my mid-40's, I realize how uncommon common sense can be when you're 18 and know everything there is to know. I was you once. You're going to have to live a bit before the world starts to make more sense and before you can make some order from the chaos. Your generation starts with the premise that you don't have or need to listen to the people who blazed trails before you. That's potentially a fatal character flaw but one that can eventually make you stronger.

Your post from your limited experience, assaulting and insulting someone wiser who has helped you directly, is why people ultimately disengage. You won't understand what I am saying until this happens to you some day, and then you'll get it but it will be too late.

Good luck to you. You have rough waters in front of you, but learning to sail them solo might make you stronger. You don't need any more advice. Your profile says "18 year old life coach."

Walter, I'm sorry to have tagged you into this. However, know that I agree with 99.9% of what you said. Don't feel as if you are obligated to respond to any of this. Sometimes the best teacher is time and first hand experience. I'd blow this off and disengage from further requests from people who treat what you have to say with distain. Thank you for answering my original request.

 

[HyperFocus]

Hey guys! Thanks a lot for all the advice!!!!

I will make my payment through T/T. I believe Im dealing with a real manufacturer and I hope they will try to send me the best quality in order to keep getting bigger orders.

I really appreciate all the information and it will help me.

 

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[Vigilante]

Hey guys! Thanks a lot for all the advice!!!!

I will make my payment through T/T. I believe Im dealing with a real manufacturer and I hope they will try to send me the best quality in order to keep getting bigger orders.

I really appreciate all the information and it will help me.

Sorry the thread went to shit, but there is good actionable advice none the less. Good luck! I look forward to continuing to follow your journey.

 

[amp0193]

I'm insanely keen about my success and helping other importers startup. And I totally thank you for the help you have provided me via PM, but saying that I am "Premature"? I find this statement unacceptable

You don't have to be incredibly successful or knowledgeable to teach others how to do something. You just have to know enough, and then be very good at marketing. Will Mitchell and Scott Voelker fall into this category, as an example.

The difference is that those two bring in experts who really know what they are talking about, and are then humbled by what they learn, whereas you call the most experienced importer on this forum "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".

so keep in mind I respect Walter and everything he's done for me and entire importing community.

You respect him so much, in fact, that you call him "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".

 

[Vigilante]

You don't have to be incredibly successful or knowledgeable to teach others how to do something. You just have to know enough, and then be very good at marketing. Will Mitchell and Scott Voelker fall into this category, as an example.

The difference is that those two bring in experts who really know what they are talking about, and are then humbled by what they learn, whereas you call the most experienced importer on this forum "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".




You respect him so much, in fact, that you call him "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".

With friends like these...



I hope I never get to the point where I am too smart and stop listening.

 

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[MitchC]

If you have had no losses as a result of paying via Western Union, I suggest you invest in a big lottery. Asking for payment via Western Union without any option is the biggest red flag in importing. In poker, a slick player will often deliberately lose the first few hands to make his opponents over-confident. Scammers do the same with WU.

You are quite right in suspecting that PayPal is almost something only a small trading company would use in China. Tehcasa (quoted below) clearly thinks otherwise, and his advice to only use suppliers who offer payment via PayPal limits buyers to dealing with traders, not manufacturers. See my AMA thread for reasons why you should deal with manufacturers not traders. (There are a small number of manufacturers who do use PayPal.)

I have also posted in my thread Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. regarding scams in which payment through PayPal has not provided protection against scams.

You may have misread my post but that's basically exactly what I said.

Only accepting WU is wierd perhaps I should have used the word suspicious. But accepting it as an option is no cause for alarm in itself.

I don't need to buy any lottery tickets I did plenty of due diligence, I'm not saying you aren't knowledgable but you aren't the only person in the world who has succesfully imported from China even though you have built an info product business around acting like it.

 

[biophase]

I thought I'd chime in here.

From my experience...

Some of my suppliers take paypal and some don't. I try to pay with paypal for samples, because pay $40 for shipping a sample and another $40 wire fee just does not make sense. In my opinion, real factories won't take paypal for a production order because of its fees and its high risk for them. They could make $10,000 in product and have you dispute it and they'd lose all that money. Also they will probably add 3-5% onto your cost if you want to pay with Paypal, so if you are ok with your $5,000 order becoming $5,250, that's fine.

I don't pay for production with paypal, I pay by wire transfers.

I think that more factories in China are accepting Paypal because people in the USA want to pay for samples that way. Providing samples is one way that they get new customers, so they must make it easier for people to get their samples. However, these factories want wire transfers for production. My guess is that their paypal account contains very little money and is only used for very small transactions.

I have not found one factory in Pakistan that uses Paypal. I have to wire everything to them, although they do take WU. I never pay with Western Union. Because WU fees costs the same as an international wire fee, so why bother? You don't save any costs and it wastes time.

 

[biophase]

There's countless suppliers on Alibaba and millions accept PayPal as a payment option. For you, I would rule out any possible outcome of suppliers providing you with other payment methods, (if this is your first time importing). PayPal is the number setting stone if you're a startup.

Just to comment on this post... If you are limiting yourself to only factories that take Paypal, you are limiting your business options. Your goal is to find the best factory for your product. Methods of payment should be secondary. In fact, I would love to find a factory that only takes gold coins, because this limits the commandment of entry for your competitors. One day you may be wondering where your competitor makes such a great product and why you can't find his supplier, then you'll realize it's because their factory is on top of a mountain only accessible by carrier pigeon.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Tagged Notable, plus changed title for more relevance and searchability.

 

[Tehcasa]

You are welcome to stop listening to people with decades of experience. Some people need to put their hands directly into the fire to know that it burns.

You're 18. You don't know what you don't know. I remember what it was like to be where you are at. When I was 21, I thought I knew everything. Now in my mid-40's, I realize how uncommon common sense can be when you're 18 and know everything there is to know. I was you once. You're going to have to live a bit before the world starts to make more sense and before you can make some order from the chaos. Your generation starts with the premise that you don't have or need to listen to the people who blazed trails before you. That's potentially a fatal character flaw but one that can eventually make you stronger.

Your post from your limited experience, assaulting and insulting someone wiser who has helped you directly, is why people ultimately disengage. You won't understand what I am saying until this happens to you some day, and then you'll get it but it will be too late.

Good luck to you. You have rough waters in front of you, but learning to sail them solo might make you stronger. You don't need any more advice. Your profile says "18 year old life coach."

Walter, I'm sorry to have tagged you into this. However, know that I agree with 99.9% of what you said. Don't feel as if you are obligated to respond to any of this. Sometimes the best teacher is time and first hand experience. I'd blow this off and disengage from further requests from people who treat what you have to say with distain. Thank you for answering my original request.

Thank you

You don't have to be incredibly successful or knowledgeable to teach others how to do something. You just have to know enough, and then be very good at marketing. Will Mitchell and Scott Voelker fall into this category, as an example.

The difference is that those two bring in experts who really know what they are talking about, and are then humbled by what they learn, whereas you call the most experienced importer on this forum "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".




You respect him so much, in fact, that you call him "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".

You don't have to be incredibly successful or knowledgeable to teach others how to do something. You just have to know enough, and then be very good at marketing. Will Mitchell and Scott Voelker fall into this category, as an example.

The difference is that those two bring in experts who really know what they are talking about, and are then humbled by what they learn, whereas you call the most experienced importer on this forum "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".




You respect him so much, in fact, that you call him "nuts", "dogmatic", "BS", "ludicrous" and "not wrong in everything".

I had a paragraph I was going to send, but I was like nah what's the point. Don't want to add fire to the heat. But thanks for the response. I hope you have a lovely day.

@Tehcasa you say you totally disagree but the you go on to agree on a majority of stuff

@Tehcasa you say you totally disagree but the you go on to agree on a majority of stuff

I too use Alibaba and don't think there is other sourcing platform out there with the size and product display it has. @Walter Hay advices other platforms and explains why Alibaba that good of a platform, and yes the Gold status is BS as it is because it's just a payment the supplier does. Now, it's more likely that legit suppliers pay for Gold Status than scamers, but that doesn't rule them out unfortunately. Verification is also BS, even outsourced company reports claiming they are factories when they are clearly not...

So while I do partly agree with you on not discarding Alibaba, I've also been importing for 3 years, and the only "suppliers" who accepted Paypal were small trading companies. One of them contacted me after 1 year asking me if I had gotten the money back because Paypal froze their funds... I'm now using a super legit factory, and the guy did me a favor of buying me a smartphone and sending me, I paid him by Paypal, guess what, after 1 month the account got frozen and he asked me to claim back.

When you are dealing with mid-big sized factories, the chance of them accepting Paypal is close to zero, it's just a risk they are not willing to take because any reputable importer will use bank transfer. Only "kids" looking to get a few samples here and there ask for Paypal payments (I did too myself).

I've visited 7 factories on my last visit to China, none accept Paypal.

So yes, limiting to Paypal payments will not only limit the number of suppliers, but will also lead to low quality ones and most likely trading companies.

Now... NEVER pay by WU if that's the only payment method they accept, that's scam alert 200%... If they accept WU I always ask for bank details first, that will give you another layer of security.

I know this is probably bad to insight to state: but visiting only 7 factories and having this incident initialized in your times using PayP

 

[Jambla]

I have just ordered a sample from a supplier, they wanted the money in USD. I had to do a T/T which cost me £40 in fees, pain in the arse.

I am going to have to work out how I am going to get the money in my bank account for the first order of 100 as I dont see how I can use a credit card if im doing T/T

 

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[MitchC]

I have just ordered a sample from a supplier, they wanted the money in USD. I had to do a T/T which cost me £40 in fees, pain in the arse.

I am going to have to work out how I am going to get the money in my bank account for the first order of 100 as I dont see how I can use a credit card if im doing T/T

At this point is there any reason paying them with wire is safer than WU? If there is Id like to know, I know credit cards can be insured sometimes for some things but I'm not sure about bank transfer. Maybe you could maybe get it reversed somehow or find the person a month or 2 from now if you realise it was a scam?

Also if you're not sure enough to pay them with WU, why pay them anything at all?

I'm not directly asking you, but if anyone has a response I'd love to hear it. The only correct answer is it's only slightly more expensive to do the bank transfer, but is it really any safer?

Maybe I'm just cheap and it will cost me one day.

 

[Hong King Kong]

There's no guan xi if the money is paid and the goods are not delivered. The relationship is then non-existent.

Never rely on luck. There is no need to.

Walter

Yea of course, just saying if he absolutely has no other choice. He has to take a risk.

From my experience living in China, suppliers have taken a risk on me many times.

Producing what I ask upfront, with little to no deposit, then just trusting I'd return and pay them afterwards.

It works both ways.