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A "Forever Recession"?

Icy

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It really comes down to this:

How to you motivate the unmotivated?

-Russ H.

I hate to use "can't", but honestly this is one of the rare situations that it's true. People find their own motivation, and without it the fire can only burn so long.
 
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Russ H

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Yup.

-Russ H.
 

camski

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It really comes down to this:

How to you motivate the unmotivated?

-Russ H.

Exactly my point, you cant. Survival is the ultimate motivator, "get busy livin or get busy dyin" or major discomfort. When working becomes more comfortable than not working, people will be motivated to work.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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Interesting conversation. Part of what you are all proposing is what I am trying to do with my new business. While my intent it to provide value, make a profit, and generally help the people who want help with strategies for mental, physical, financial, emotional, and relationship growth - I do intend to do my best to help these people.

I'm sure most of them will say "screw you" but one of two things need to happen, either everyone in the world adopts this behavior of "I'll let someone else handle it for me" and we all fail miserably and the world implodes on itself ...or it becomes so painful that they are forced to change. I have my money on the latter.

But what does that take? When I teach teachers, I tell them that anytime you teach you must do what I call "assuming stupidity" it's a funny way of saying that it's not that the person has ill intent, they just don't know any better!

For Example; if I tell a kid to kick with his left foot and he continuously kicks with his right foot - I can't get upset and start screaming at the kid. I can't say in my head "this kid is a moron, why is he being so disobdient!? what a little brat!! his parents really need to teach him something!" The misconception is that he knows what to do! I told him! He MUST be trying to aggrivate me! Where as I am proposing that the real challenge is that people just don't know!

What do I mean? Well I've run across several people, family members included, that just don't "get it". A conversation I had just recently went something like this:


"Ugh.. I hate my job.. are you hiring?"
"Haha, why do you HATE your job?"
"Well I'm working 12 hours per day, I work my butt off for this company, and my current boss keeps telling me that I'm not pulling my weight! She says I need to do more! I'm already working as much as I can, going to school full time, and raising three kids! What more could anyone want?"
"Well we've had this discussion before, you know that the only way you're going to have more time is if you start your own business. You're working 12 hours a day already, there really wouldn't be much of a difference except that in a few years you'll be able to take as much time off as you want, where as if you stay at your job you will still be working as much if not more, probably for less money, and still be getting chewed out by someone."
"Yeah... I know... So you're hiring right!? Hahaha!"
"Sure, you're a skilled accountant, I could use you but what are you looking for?"
"Well I want a good job, with good pay... I HAVE to have great benefits. I would like more than 2 weeks of vacation per year because I need to spend time with the kids. Oh, and I don't want to work more than 40 hours per week."
"Uhhh... Well... I don't think you understand what I do... I am out to change lives and the world and I don't take breaks. You could come with me but my staff knows how hard we push and they don't work for much money. To be honest you probably wouldn't make it a week. I spend at LEAST 80 hours per week on just THIS business. I spend at least 30 hours a week on my other business as well..."
"Yeah... I know... well if you hear of anyone that's hiring let me know?"


... And this sort of thing is COMMON! The problem is that we've had it so good for so long that people have forgotten what hard work is. Realistically, almost none of us on this forum (in the United States at least) have really experienced a poor economy since we started in the working world. Correct me if I'm wrong but we haven't had issues like this since the depression.

But if we can teach people the REAL skills they are missing, If we can teach them the REAL beliefs to adopt, If we can teach people what hard work really is. I don't think anything is impossible. If you need some references, look what happens when people rally behind a cause. Why is it that countries have economic booms during wartime? I truly believe it is because of the mentality that takes hold. That "we must all work together to achieve this goal, and if not, we fail!"

Anyways, that's my view! Take it for what it's worth!
 
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kwerner

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Haven't seen this thread in a couple days, just wanted to say great posts by camski, rep++.
 

Russ H

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The problem is that we've had it so good for so long that people have forgotten what hard work is. Realistically, almost none of us on this forum (in the United States at least) have really experienced a poor economy since we started in the working world. Correct me if I'm wrong but we haven't had issues like this since the depression.

I completely and totally agree. Americans--not all but some-- have forgotten that hard work is what this country was built on.

But if we can teach people the REAL skills they are missing, If we can teach them the REAL beliefs to adopt, If we can teach people what hard work really is. I don't think anything is impossible. If you need some references, look what happens when people rally behind a cause. Why is it that countries have economic booms during wartime? I truly believe it is because of the mentality that takes hold. That "we must all work together to achieve this goal, and if not, we fail!"

I wish I had half your optimism on this, Steve.

But it brings to mind what the janitor at an Ivy League University used to write on the blackboards after he'd cleaned them:

"You gotta wanna"

-Russ H.
 

Runum

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"You gotta wanna"

-Russ H.

I love it. Maybe I need to leave positive, motivational quotes on my board each day and night. never thought of it before.
 
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biophase

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Well I'll see how this works and report at B&P. My friend lost her job last week. She is on unemployment and began to look for a job. I told her not to look for a job, but that I would hire her and teach her to start and run a business. So starting today I am giving her weekly tasks to do for a low wage. It's hard to change people's mentalities.

I could tell she is still in the employee mindset. She said in a few years you won't need me anymore and I'll need another job. I said no, in a few years you won't need ME! I don't expect one of my friends that I train for 2 years to be working for me 2 years from now. That would suck.
 

FDJustin

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It really comes down to this:

How to you motivate the unmotivated?

Let me know when you figure that out. As an unemployable bum, and as someone who has friends as bums, I can tell you that motivation comes as waves. Sometimes they're big, sometimes they're small, but there's always a dip.

I can also say that your (Every one of you, no one specific.) presumptions are all true, but not all true all of the time. Some of us aren't as comfortable and happy with this shit as you think. This is speaking from just a pool of four or five people I know well enough to be able to tell. And some of us are as content with it as you think.

There can be more factors at work than just being lazy, or unmotivated, or parasitic (although any of those are likely part of the issue, if not all of them.)

I'm not going to debate if it's justified or not. Quite frankly, I neither care, nor do I have much of an opinion on what makes a subjective experience valid or not.

My entire point is that often they have a problem, and are not just a problem. The more of the issues they may have that can be fixed on a large scale, the less these people will be naturally inclined to accept their position for life.

Now that I'm on that line of thought, how's this for a solution?
Instead of demolishing the one form of charity that has the potential to do the most good for the most people right in your own back yard, why not just have it altered to be more effective, and more useful?
The people on welfare should be mandated to participate in the Employment Education Center programs (Or whatever american equivalent you no doubt have) for basic job hunting skills. But not just that; they can be made to go to life lesson pow wow sessions. Reduce the amount they get a little to pay for these, and maybe even to provide a specific nutritious meal to keep the people moderately healthy, since they're probably been living off packets of Mr. Noodles since they got on the program, and apparently food is supposed to have some crazy connection to mental stability, energy, health and even focus.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I completely and totally agree. Americans--not all but some-- have forgotten that hard work is what this country was built on.

I wish I had half your optimism on this, Steve.

But it brings to mind what the janitor at an Ivy League University used to write on the blackboards after he'd cleaned them:

"You gotta wanna"

-Russ H.

It's all in perspective right? The easiest way to change someone's beliefs and attitude is exactly that - perspective. The moment they actually understand that 2/3 of the world lives on two dollars a day or less (and not just intellectually understand, but know with absolute conviction), they start to realize what they really have. No matter how "bad" it gets, we are still living like kings over here.

Life is so tragic until people figure out they have absolutely nothing to complain about, and no excuses.
 
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Kung Fu Steve

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There is a simple fix for all of us though...

I tell people in the martial arts all the time to modify your approach. Not everyone is injury free (almost no one realistically). If your knee is shot on one leg, just kick twice as much with the other leg! ... seems to work well for one of my idols:

[video=youtube;1vqvLz6v20s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vqvLz6v20s&feature=related[/video]

We can just pretend that this is the new reality. The economy will ALWAYS be like this. The question now is, what will we do so we still become wealthy?
 

SEOArbiter

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These have definitely been interesting times for all. They've made all of us re-invent ways of doing business and how to become more efficient and productive. Although the recovery may be slow, it will come back around.
 
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jazzfreak11

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Hey guys, I've been silently following along with the conversation here, and I feel like it's time to chime in again ;)

It seems that some of us (Kung Fu Steve and LightHouse in particular) have taken up a quest to convert those frustrated with the Sidewalk lifestyle/work servitude into entrepreneurs/Fastlane thinkers.

I think that's a GREAT quest, but how in the world are we supposed to convert them? We should all examine what it was that kindled the entrepreneurial spirit in us and made us say "enough is enough, never again, i'm doing things my way now." When did everybody here decide that working 16 hours a day for themselves is better then working 8 hours a day for somebody else? How can we encourage sidewalkers to push through that?

Is social darwinism really true? Is it something you're born with- the drive to succeed in the Fastlane vs. complacency (slowlane)? Unless that's true, there has GOTTA be a way that we can make things work for others.

Maybe a coordinated effort should be organized on our part? What we have here at the Fastlane Forum is AWESOME, but it seems to be all people who have already decided that Fastlane is for them. How do you go to do some psychological work on a sidewalk-mentality liver?
 

Kung Fu Steve

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Hey guys, I've been silently following along with the conversation here, and I feel like it's time to chime in again ;)

It seems that some of us (Kung Fu Steve and LightHouse in particular) have taken up a quest to convert those frustrated with the Sidewalk lifestyle/work servitude into entrepreneurs/Fastlane thinkers.

I think that's a GREAT quest, but how in the world are we supposed to convert them? We should all examine what it was that kindled the entrepreneurial spirit in us and made us say "enough is enough, never again, i'm doing things my way now."

You really can't force anyone to change. If someone doesn't care to change, they won't change. So when DO people change? When they have enough leverage on themselves. Why did we all decide to do this crazy stuff? Because of what you said "enough is enough" there are several stacked reasons to change. Sick of being broke, sick of being stupid, sick of being taken advantage of, sick of living a certain way, sick of being sick, whatever it is (or all of the above) we created more then enough leverage and all of a sudden our beliefs shifted and we said "THIS is how life is".

So what I'm saying is we've all had a shift in beliefs. We must change the beliefs of people. There are only two ways to change a belief: choosing to or being forced to. The first one is pretty obvious, if you choose to and create enough leverage with yourself it's a piece of cake. The other may be more necessary. If you say "I can't go sky diving, I can't go sky diving, I can't go sky diving," and all of a sudden I kick you out of a plane - hey, guess what? You're sky diving!! Beliefs instantly change. If somehow (and I'm sure it would be different for every person) we were able to show them how successful things COULD be, we could start to change their beliefs. I have my own ideas on how I plan on doing this but I guess that's for another day.

When did everybody here decide that working 16 hours a day for themselves is better then working 8 hours a day for somebody else? How can we encourage sidewalkers to push through that?

I don't think any of us go into business intending on working 16 hour days :smxB:
 

StreetsofSilver

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Although America has changed forever, I don't believe that we are in a Forever Recession. Inflation and deflation (booms and busts) come and go. That's how economics works.

During the pre-Depression era, the majority of Americans were self-employed and had their own businesses. There was the breadmaker, shoemaker, butcher, etc. These entrepreneurs were skilled workers who were all in business for themselves. That is what Americans lack today. The skills necessary to produce. Even our American flags often say "made in China"
 
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