A Better Alternative to College?

[SeanKelly]

"If you’re looking for a return on investment (and to learn skills that are required in today’s job market), some startups may have the answer. DevBootCamp, for example, offers a 10-week apprenticeship-like training program for people who want to be professional software developers. 88 percent of their graduates have job offers starting at an average of $79,000 a year after their program. The program costs $12,200. That is a much better investment than college.

Read more at In 2013, here’s why we’ll seriously consider alternatives to higher ed | VentureBeat "
​

I had just read this and said to myself "Why would I spend 4 years in college only to be ill-prepared for a software engineering job when I could take this course for $11,000 (pay all at once discount) and be done in a few months..."

I think this is a much faster way to learn a valuable skill and build significant startup capital by working a year or two and living at home.

What are your opinions on such a route?

 

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[Big Daddyhoo]

So do it.

 

[The-J]

10 weeks is slightly less than a semester. It's actually a better deal than most universities.

However, people who WOULD take this are either better suited for college or for self education. You can do it cheaper at a community college.

How the boot camp gets employers to take graduates, I would like to know. That's really the only end-game plus to college: there's often a recruitment process during junior and senior years.

Interesting nonetheless

 

[Mr.Dietsch]

Why not spend $12,000 on your ideas instead? I guess if you want to be a coder then that is one thing, but in today's world I feel you can know bare minimum coding and do just fine. You really just need to have the idea down solid with every detail described and as long as you can find programmers who know what they are doing by testing many candidates for the job and finding someone who will really work hard for you, and understands your goals you will get more done quicker. I mean $12,000 could build an incredibly nice website if you had the detail down solid it makes the job much easier for the programmers. I feel coding is slow lane mentality. I def feel you should know the basics but that can be done with 5 programming books max. I agree college is a waste of time, but so would giving this $12,000 for apprenticeship in my viewpoint. I am a entrepreneur though, not a coder.

 

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[InMotion]

I would ask them to get me a job first, based on successful completion of the program under contract, then I might spend money with them .

 

[DeletedUser2]

pay me the 11K, come work for me for a semester, for free, and if you dont know how to make money at the end of it, you can have your money back





Z

 

[InMotion]

pay me the 11K, come work for me for a semester, for free, and if you dont know how to make money at the end of it, you can have your money back

That's a better deal I think.

Have Zen show you how to make HIM 30-50k while your working for him, and how to make money when you leave, then maybe he will forget about the 11k.

 

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[SeanKelly]

pay me the 11K, come work for me for a semester, for free, and if you dont know how to make money at the end of it, you can have your money back





Z

Can i work for you for free and not pay the 11k? I'd love to do that . Thanks for the responses guys. I just got excited by this because it was much faster.

 

[DeletedUser2]

There is no speed limit to learning, except when you limit yourself to another systems speed bumps.

collage, has a 4 yr speed bump.

you just found a way to do it in 10 weeks.

there are other faster ways.


11k..... and 10 weeks with me..... well, you could just ask a few people.... hahaha well worth it im sure. I might have to charge double cause it would be so fast.





Z

 

[SeanKelly]

There is no speed limit to learning, except when you limit yourself to another systems speed bumps.

collage, has a 4 yr speed bump.

you just found a way to do it in 10 weeks.

there are other faster ways.


11k..... and 10 weeks with me..... well, you could just ask a few people.... hahaha well worth it im sure. I might have to charge double cause it would be so fast.





Z

Where are you located? I'm heading to the bank

 

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[Steve37]

There is no speed limit to learning, except when you limit yourself to another systems speed bumps.

collage, has a 4 yr speed bump.

you just found a way to do it in 10 weeks.

there are other faster ways.


11k..... and 10 weeks with me..... well, you could just ask a few people.... hahaha well worth it im sure. I might have to charge double cause it would be so fast.





Z

Based on some of the things I've read here this seems like a hell of a bargain.

 

[PeteLife]

pay me the 11K, come work for me for a semester, for free, and if you dont know how to make money at the end of it, you can have your money back

If you are serious Ill definitely take you up on that offer. (No BS) ... Ive been following your posts for a while now. You know your stuff!

 

[theDarkness]

Yeah I have a feeling working with zend would easily be worth that amount.

Also, the web site for this course thing says it will take you from newb to a "basic understanding" of programming in nine weeks. Why would anyone pay that much for a basic understanding?

 

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[DeletedUser2]

Hiring a programer is cheaper

example. we hired a programer to make us a piece of software in 2008. took 3 months cost us 3500 bucks

we then went on to sell the software online for about 250K a year for a couple years. I think we made well over 600K for a 3,500 piece of software
......

much better then programing.

I still cant program ...


Z

 

[andviv]

I just saw this thread and I am late as Z already destroyed the conversation with his ridiculously good offer but...

How the boot camp gets employers to take graduates, I would like to know. That's really the only end-game plus to college: there's often a recruitment process during junior and senior years.

Today we are hiring developers. We need them badly. Yes, here in the US. And yes, you will probably get $50K to $65k starting if you successfully pass the technical test we do for developers. .net and Java developers are in constant demand at big corporations.

Can you really do HTML5 apps consuming data from APIs? I don't care about your college degree. I will hire you right away. Health insurance, 401(k), 2 weeks vacations plus one week personal leave.

Can you code iOS apps? Interact with APIs and have a decent sense of graphic design/aesthetics? Sure, You are hired too. Maybe $70K-$80K to start. All benefits too.

So the recruitment process you speak of from college may be true for other careers, but for IT this simply is an employees' market.

I would ask them to get me a job first, based on successful completion of the program under contract, then I might spend money with them .

If I get you what you are saying, will you pay me that money? (I am not kidding)

 

[AgonI]

This is all cool and I get it that some people need to be directed in order to learn or do something. How about buying a couple of programming books, which won't cost more than 200-250$ and learning on your own? You would just have to spend enough time on it and I am sure you'll learn more than what you'd learn after 4 years of college.

 

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[AgonI]

Can you really do HTML5 apps consuming data from APIs? I don't care about your college degree. I will hire you right away. Health insurance, 401(k), 2 weeks vacations plus one week personal leave.

I am proficient in this. Where do you suggest me to look for a good job(location dependent)? I have even developed my own app just recently. Let me know!

 

[dknise]

However, people who WOULD take this are either better suited for college or for self education. You can do it cheaper at a community college.

I think we all know how I feel about classical college... haha This is a great in-between between college and self education. I am whole-heartedly for fast to the point education taught by true professionals in their field, and this sounds like it. You're not going to get the same education at "real" college or community college as you would at a course like the one the OP posted. Chances are your college or community college prof has never worked on a real software project and he may not even know the language or concepts he's teaching you, he might be going through the book for the first time along with you.

How the boot camp gets employers to take graduates, I would like to know. That's really the only end-game plus to college: there's often a recruitment process during junior and senior years.

As andviv stated, software employers do not care about your $120,000 piece of paper that's 60% unrelated education to your job. The only thing they care about is can you code what they need and are you a problem solver. Hence how myself and many many others without that fancy piece of paper were able to land positions on teams at the big companies.



To SeanKelly, I think it's a GREAT program as far as educational value for your dollar goes. It sounds like it would bring you up to speed a lot faster than self education and you'll get to learn from people who are actually in the industry. Some things to note about it though, it did entirely leave out databases! I highly doubt the program will fully leave it out, especially because any large enterprise level web site or application will use a robust backend.

Order of precidence:

1. Z's offer if you don't have to pay him $11k haha
2. A formal technical education such as the one you showed
3. Self Education

Don't go to college to learn how to code. :smilielol:

 

[andviv]

Where do you suggest me to look for a good job(location dependent)?

I can only speak about the Washington DC area where we do business.

An example (kind of 'far' from downtown, but gives you an idea): Front End Developer (HTML, CSS, JavaScript)

Blooms Today is an established e-commerce company looking for full time, bright, talented developers to join our growing team in Haymarket, VA. You'll support and maintain our current business while building the next generation web apps that will push past the competition.

Required Skills:
• HTML5, CSS3
• XML
• JavaScript, jQuery, jQuery Mobile
• PHP
• AJAX
• MySQL (or other SQL based databases)
• Strong CS background
• Experience architecting software
• B.S. in Computer Science or 2-3 years of professional experience

Can you make SELECT queries sing choruses of timely results? Are you an AJAX master? Do pages dance to your every browser and server whim?

We need great programmers! Send us your resume and a cover letter and we'll get back to you soon.

Location: Haymarket, VA
Compensation: 60-75K DOE

And trust me, if you have samples of what you have done and what you can do, they won't care about B.S. degrees...

 

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[johnp]

I think this is a much faster way to learn a valuable skill and build significant startup capital by working a year or two and living at home.

Do you need significant start-up capital? Energy is money. If you go full throttle at something then you will make it happen. Too many people give up too early. Here's an example, let's say that I'm a web developer on elance and I want to gain 2 clients per day. I'm not going to pitch 2 clients per day. I'm going to pitch at least 20-100 clients per day, maybe more, and hope that I get my 2. If I can't find that many on elance each day then I'm moving to other places as well. Forums, social media, etc.. And it cost me nothing, other then time. Hell, I wouldn't even settle for 2 per day. I'd shoot for 200. I'd rather have the problem of having to hire more people than making no money. There are so many inexpensive ways to get things done today from marketing to sales to productive development. Do you need to know how to code? Hell no. Do you need to know about Plato? Hell no, he's dead and poor. Do you need to know how to work your a$$ off? Hell yes. It starts there, then the rest falls into place.

- Btw - I'm not a developer on elance. Here is how I write my code


<html>

p={finaodkeioiijio494948kd9}?????!.

}

[f+i = x]
</html>

just kidding, i'm not that bad. I know about it. But the point is that I wouldn't spend 11K to know how to do it. Nor would I spend 2 years to learn how to do it.

 

[InMotion]

SeanKelly, there is another bootcamp by app academy. They claim they do not charge you for the program until you get a job. just an fyi. Not sure where they are located but there may be others with this model.

If I get you what you are saying, will you pay me that money? (I am not kidding)

No offense but there are only 3 people on here I would want to work for, nothing personal by no means; im not a corporate man. There is nothing wrong with those offers for a junior developer; personally I wouldn't want to live in the DC area on 50k a year though unless I was married. Perhaps COL is not as high where your company is.

I had just read this and said to myself "Why would I spend 4 years in college only to be ill-prepared for a software engineering job when I could take this course for $11,000 (pay all at once discount) and be done in a few months..."

I will add Sean that IMO, if you are wanting to work in the Valley or for any corporation you would be better off starting now in programming. By the time you reach your late 20's and 30's you will need a game plan or move.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/28/silicon-valley’s-dark-secret-it’s-all-about-age/

 

[Phillipbro]

You can always learn to code by yourself.
I finished JavaScript in about 2 Weeks while halfway finished C#.

 

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[SeanKelly]

SeanKelly, there is another bootcamp by app academy. They claim they do not charge you for the program until you get a job. just an fyi. Not sure where they are located but there may be others with this model.

Thank you for finding this. I will be sure to look into it.

 

[SeanKelly]

You can always learn to code by yourself.
I finished JavaScript in about 2 Weeks while halfway finished C#.

That's always an option

 

[andviv]

No offense but there are only 3 people on here I would want to work for, nothing personal by no means; im not a corporate man.

Ah, my bad. When you said:

I would ask them to get me a job first, based on successful completion of the program under contract, then I might spend money with them .

I read it as if you were being serious about it for you. Now that I re-read it I noticed you just said 'would' and 'might'.

there is another bootcamp by app academy. They claim they do not charge you for the program until you get a job. just an fyi. Not sure where they are located but there may be others with this model.

Now this model is great. I wonder how they are filtering candidates. I look at their curriculum and I must say, very impressive. It ialso is a great talent recruiting technique. I am starting to look at this with great interest as it will provide me with resources and connections at a great technical level, with low risk.

Not sure where they are located but there may be others with this model.

Sean, if your goal is to land something in silicon valley then this app academy makes sense as they are in San Francisco.
Where are you located, by the way?



Thanks all for adding this info here, I just noticed this is a very interesting niche with great potential.

 

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[SeanKelly]

Ah, my bad. When you said:

I read it as if you were being serious about it for you. Now that I re-read it I noticed you just said 'would' and 'might'.



Now this model is great. I wonder how they are filtering candidates. I look at their curriculum and I must say, very impressive. It ialso is a great talent recruiting technique. I am starting to look at this with great interest as it will provide me with resources and connections at a great technical level, with low risk.


Sean, if your goal is to land something in silicon valley then this app academy makes sense as they are in San Francisco.
Where are you located, by the way?



Thanks all for adding this info here, I just noticed this is a very interesting niche with great potential.

I'm located in New Jersey, but I'm more than willing to travel to where opportunity presents itself. I consider these "Academies" a great path to take, especially when compared to traditional college. Only 10 weeks with a near 90% chance of landing a job making 80k or more.... As of right now though, I'm going to take the "work for a successful entrepreneur" route as I feel this provides the biggest return.

 

[andviv]

As of right now though, I'm going to take the "work for a successful entrepreneur" route as I feel this provides the biggest return.

Congrats on making this decision and I wish you the best. I wish I had had/seen an opportunity like this when I was 19. Exciting stuff!

 

[onialex1]

I am currently an international student here in Baltimore pursuing my masters degree program in Cyber security. I can honestly confess that i have already made up my mind to drop the program and why? well simply because the program is completely laden with theory and very little practical courses which is contrary to what I read on the programs website before registering.

The truth is the skills I have as an IT professional are skills that I learnt while working on the job.These are raw practical skills that you will almost never be taught in school. That been said, I believe that the job market would still prefer someone who has a college degree and the practical skills to defend that degree over someone who has the skills but no degree.

Since I have already made up my mind to take myself off the job market and be a real entrepreneur, I see the free online courses offered by several top schools here in the US as the way to go. I already took the Entrepreneur class from Stanford where I learnt a lot and I am currently taking a free class on human psychology from Yale.

 

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[SeanKelly]

Congrats on making this decision and I wish you the best. I wish I had had/seen an opportunity like this when I was 19. Exciting stuff!

Thank you, Andviv! I'm trying to do my best here

 

[Mr.Dietsch]

Please realize these "Acadamies" are businesses, and they market just like any other business. I find it highly unlikely that 90% of graduates find a job making $80,000 a year. I promise there is a catch, there is always a catch. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.