24 Year Old Makes $345,000 in 2 Months..

[RHL]

This is why I have a dim view of Kickstarter except for UNBELIEVABLY expensive and complex ideas (things that require multiple millions in funding, like Oculus, and things that are so complicated that the teaser video can't really convey the engineering challenges in the finished product). If you have a product and the barrier to entry is $50,000, and it's actually a good idea and not just some trite nonsense, somebody who can actually hustle with 50K is going to have your idea developed and shipped before your campaign closes. $50,000 is not a lot of money. If you have to beg for that little before you launch, you're going to get crushed by somebody with greater tenacity or resources.

I side with OP: This does suck, but it's the world we live in. If you have a great idea, the clock is ticking from the second you tell someone about it, place your first test order, make your molds, etc. that somebody, your Chinese supplier, your friend, your boss, your cousin, somebody will beat you to it.

 

[biophase]

Here is my issue. This guy copied the product, probably based off the kickstarter video, so all he saw was the outside. I would bet that his product is inferior in terms of materials and engineering. For this little widget, people probably don't care.

I understand that this is part of business, but this is not a person that I would want to associate with. This person is chasing money and not really producing anything of value. He clearly doesn't care about his product. I would bet that his inflatable chairs were probably the thinnest and crappiest of all that were on Amazon. When you go for speed, you sacrifice quality.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Instead of writing a long dissertation that reflects my opinion, I'll just say this: If this guy signed on to be an INSIDERS, I'd promptly refund his money and say "Sorry, not interested, please keep your cash."

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Curious to see what other people's take on this is and what other lessons can be learned from this.

So he basically uses the Kickstarter to remove the biggest variables in new product development -- what do people want? Is there a market with demand?

Reminds me why we have a "secrecy" post here.

IMPORTANT! - Why All The Secrecy? Here's Why...

 

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[Walter Hay]

Sure it sucks, but this is business and as others have said this kind of thing should be expected by now.

What I'm more interested in is how this guy bought the product to market so quickly. I was under the impression that Antsy Labs (the Kickstarters) designed and developed the fidget cube from the ground up.

Is this not the case? Did they take an already existing product in China and alter it slightly?

If they did design it from the ground up, how did the copycat get ahold of the design and mass produce it so quickly?? If this is the case, that's pretty impressive.

So many questions... Can anybody chime in?

*I actually received my fidget cube in the mail today. It's pretty addictive.

This highlights the dangers of having new products made in China. I have frequently posted warnings to the effect that if you send a new design to China for development or manufacture, it is highly probable that competitors will have the product on the market before you even receive your prototype.

If the product requires assembly, you could have components made by different manufacturers in China, none of whom should be allowed to know the end use. If there is a risk that they could work it out - don't do that.

What are your alternatives?

• Ship components to your home country and assemble them there. This obviously has its limitations depending on the type of product.
• Have the Chinese manufacturer sign a NDA? - Waste of paper.
• Have the product completely made locally? - Potentially, but not necessarily high cost, but a lot safer if appropriate protection measures are taken.
• Have the product made in a low cost country where IP rights are protected? You might be surprised if you think outside the square and research product costs in countries that you probably regard as too expensive. Think Germany, Italy, Australia, and others.

I teach product sourcing and importing, but I always say look around your home country first.

Walter

 

[PaulRobert]

No clickbait...

Here's the article... This 24-year-old made $345,000 in 2 months by beating Kickstarters to market

As an inventor this boils my blood especially if you put in hundreds of hours of blood, sweat, and tears into the project just to have someone else just swoop in and steal your customers with a knockoff.

This isn't the first product he's done this to either. IMO he's not an entrepreneur but a punk that preys on other's people ideas and cuts into the profit.
I have a feeling that we are going to be seeing more and more of these scam artist trying to pull this sh** with other crowdfunding campaigns.

There are a few good lessons that can be learned from this though..

#1. Control--- Is the product you are selling proprietary or can it be knocked off very easily? Who are your suppliers? Do you trust them? Does your product have USP that no one else can replicate?

#2. The Power of Smart Marketing-- How did this kid use the power of marketing to sell almost $350K in 90 days? Can you use similar marketing vehicles to grow your own business/products?

#3. Raising Capital - What route is best to start up your biz? Self Funding? Crowdfunding? What are the pros and cons of each? What are the results further down the road?

Curious to see what other people's take on this is and what other lessons can be learned from this.

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

Bet you $100 this guy is, or at least was, on this forum.

Then everyone wonders why people won't share the specifics on what they sell...

 

[CycleGuy]

I read about this on the hustle yesterday.

I guess I don't know how anyone could be upset at someone executing ideas better than someone else.
Especially non-proprietary items or non-patented items.

While upsetting for inventors, most ideas generally aren't original with 7 billion people on the planet.

 

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[JAJT]

I understand that this is part of business, but this is not a person that I would want to associate with.

This is my thought as well.

I realize there is a huge sentiment of "execution is all that matters!" from many people here but personally no matter how good this guy is at executing, he's not someone I would even want to share even the name of my company with.

There's a lot of people I've talked to from this forum and elsewhere who have products I'm passionate about that I think I could either out-execute on, or at least compete very competently with. I've chosen 100% of the time to give those product categories a wide berth. I would much rather be known as the guy you can always trust to talk shop with in confidence rather than the guy who can 'kill you on execution'.

A lot of people have shared a tremendous wealth of information with me over my short few years doing this and I personally find it very important that every single one of them knows I'd never put a knife in their back.

I do realize that every niche under the sun has competitors you are fighting with but I feel there's a huge difference between the type of person who chooses a niche they love or feels they can add value to and competes aggressively in, and the person who decides to look for people who have already put in the time, money, marketing, risk, and just jumping in front of them with a giant "haha I got here first, choose me instead" sign. It's not really commendable.

 

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[Walter Hay]

What I am reading here almost restores my faith in human nature.

Like JALT, I am privy to a lot of confidential information provided by people seeking my help. If one is working in a particular niche, and the second one asks about the same product/ suppliers etc., I can't answer with specifics.

Thanks to all those who uphold ethical principles.

Walter

 

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[G-Man]

I have to admit working in food, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that get their ideas "ripped off". It's just a part of everyday life for us. At any point, one of the big boys can grab our product off of a shelf, take it to a lab, and have it running on their line 6 weeks later in mass, or a small guy could literally taste our product and re-create it in a kitchen. It just is what it is. It's competition.
Execution is still what matters. The big fellas have tried to make flavors like ours, and that shit's already getting taken off the shelves

 

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[Mike39]

Have you heard of Rocket Internet? They do the same thing on a much larger scale:
Copycat Kings: How Three Brothers Are Cloning the Web and Making Billions

MUCH larger scale:
Alexander Samwer

 

[hughjasle]

Joining this convo late, but this is the space I live in and deal with all day. What most of you glossed over (or if it wasn't in the article I don't remember as I read it the day it came out).

• this is NOT the only guy doing it. There are thousands of guys doing this.
• They 100% steal not just the idea - but the actual marketing. They rip off the videos straight from kickstarter and youtube etc.
• The products often are NOT already made. They get manufacturers to replicate them or find manufactuers who know about this "game" who sit and watch Facebook/Kickstarter/indiegogo/etc. for hot selling products to replicate then post them online for others to buy from them.
• The products are always inferior since nobody in that supply chain cares about the product at all
• It ruins the credibility of the quaility product.
• It take a LONG time to get a patent. The Fidget cube IS PATENT PENDING. They paid out the nose to have it speed up to stop these guys from ripping them off with crappier products.
• Because it is patent pending and not granted, what is being done (minus using the original creators videos and marketing materials) is 100% legal.
• Legal isn't always right.
• These examples of apple copying microsoft being the same thing is way off. They took the "idea" and made it better/their own version of it.
• The kickstarter campaign did $6.5m in 30 days, people saying this guy who made $300k is *smarter* have no clue what they are talking about.
• Everyone here would change their tunes really quickly if they went out and built a product of their own (ie if they were the original owner of the fidget cube)

HERE is the PROPER WAY TO DO IT IF THIS IS THE PATH YOU WANT: All these guys are cutting a corner for the sake of 1 weeks time. DONT. Let's use the cube as an example: Build relationships with quality manufacturers ahead of time. See that this cube is getting lots of attention on kickstarter. Realize people want something similar but instead of a cube shape, they want it as a ring so they can wear it, and they want different fidget options than what comes with the cube. Make it your own. Make it better. Own it. Be proud of it. Take that to market. Sell MILLIONS instead of thousands.

I don't understand why everyone is always taking the short cuts when doing it right takes almost no extra work and instead of working with shady manufacturers, you get to build relationships with quality ones that wish you freaking happy birthday and Merry Christmas because they actually care about you.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

To play devil's advocate here...

Someone has a good idea, puts it on kickstarter, which is basically screaming (assuming it gets traction with funding) "this is a good idea that I don't have the money to execute!", and then watches as it gets stolen by someone with the process in place to execute it quickly?

Is this guy supposed to sit on the sidelines, and ignore these good ideas that are being so blatantly advertised, out of some sense of moral authority?

Is there any difference between this and the story in TMF about the chick that left her purse on the table to get stolen?

(to be clear, I don't think what he did was right...but I'm also not surprised AT ALL that it happened)

 

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[JAJT]

So this begs the question: Were these kickstarter products original or did they already exist on, say, alibaba?

The story almost made it sound like the products on kickstarter were already in existence and the copycat just found a supplier and beat them to the north american market.

Of course it could also simply be that the Chinese knockoff folks watch for popular kickstarter projects to knock off immediately.

 

[rpeck90]

You need to read the article a little deeper, the guy hustled to make it work, which is highly commendable.

I don't feel sympathy for the Kickstarter people, the guy who hustled made it happen and the others didn't. Such is capitalism:

The Cozy Bags were bulk shipped from China to Canada at a price of around CA$28 per lounge.

$28CA per bag was a big investment. I wouldn't have pulled the trigger at that cost. He did and now sells them for $75CA.

Within weeks, the team sold lounges directly at concerts and fairs. They spent full days building brand awareness and a following on Instagram and Facebook.

Sales grew, but margins slipped as they spent more and more on advertising, which was necessary to battle competitors like WindPouch, Dumbo Lounge and Chillbo Baggins.

This is the kicker, they actually went out to sell their stock.

Fastlane all the way. The others wanted to use Kickstarter to sell their first batch, this dude ripped it off and went direct to the wider audience. It already had competitors so I don't get the issue.

When inventory from a second order dwindled, Jack and his two partners placed an order for 15,000 Stress Cubes and faced the terrifying prospect of wiring $70,000 to a factory in Shenzhen without insurance or any guarantee that the cubes would arrive.

This is major. I know for a fact most people would never do this... which is why they remain poor.

--

I commend the guy - if people didn't want their Kickstarter campaigns ripped off, they need to make them more unique or protect their brand or whatever.

 

[Waspy]

This guy was first. Doesn't mean he's the best.

If you see someone copying you, and your initial reaction isn't to work harder to out-do them. You've got the wrong attitude.

 

[TKDTyler]

All about execution in the end.

This reminds me of the documentary Triumph of the Nerds. The man who made the first actual computer barely made any money and ended up returning to his original profession (medical practice). Xerox developed the first GUI and mouse, gave Steve Jobs a tour, and proceeded to get double penetrated by Apple and Microsoft.

More examples

IBM ---> Apple/Microsoft
Grocery Store ---> Walmart
Myspace ---> Facebook
Yahoo ---> Google
Brick & Mortar ---> Ecommerce ---> Amazon
Block Buster ---> Netflix

What do they all have in common?

They all looked at what what currently available and found issues with their business models and products.

The market responded favorably to all of them and changed how we interact with each space (Computers, Shopping, Social Media, Search Engine, Entertainment).

Why did they succeed? They made each transaction simpler and more user friendly for their consumers.

You could say that Google copied yahoo. A search engine is a search engine. Algorithms are different, but they provided a service in a modern and intuitive way.

Apple and Microsoft battled in the MP3 player space for years in the iPod vs Zune era. IMO the Zune was great, but it was lacking that special appeal that Apple products began to brand themselves around.

Then Apple create the iPhone. It wasn't the first smartphone, but it was the first aesthetically pleasing, fully functional, tech forward phone at the time.

Android released around the same time, and over time began taking some of Apple's market share.

Why?

Each company did what they thought was best for the customer. What they would enjoy the most. At the same time, they were letting the other company test other ideas for them.

Even the largest companies in the world "steal" from each other, but they do it because that is what the market demands. Without adapting to new demand, consumers will drift away for the more superior product every time.

Listen to the market and execute!

 

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[TKDTyler]

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder154/500x/63106154.jpg

In my opinion, he saw a need and solved it.

The need being there was way too much demand vs supply. Sometimes money can solve people's problems.

The moral I got out of it is that those who are successful in the world jump on opportunities. They do not think over it for a couple days or weeks. They take action right away.

If he waited 1 or 2 months before executing, much of the demand would have been eaten up by the kickstarter finishing.

They guy running the kickstarter could have got a loan to finance an initial order and use the kick started money to pay back the loan immediately.

Faster time to market, minimal interest payments. Customers get their products faster. Win all around (assuming it gets funded of course).

 

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[miked_d]

Breaks the old rule, "Don't be a dick."

 

[MidwestLandlord]

I think there are 2 lessons to be learned from this guy, and this thread:

1) We have choices to make. We choose how we go about building our business. We could operate like this guy, and execute these ideas faster, and in my opinion...steal them. Or we could come up with our own ideas and sell those. That depends on our moral compass I suppose.

2) Someone is always there to execute better or more quickly than us. So we need to protect our ideas, be selective in who we bring on board with us, and never get complacent.

 

[Ubermensch]

Regarding secrecy, I take the opposite approach in many regards. I have openly discussed energy, energy efficiency, PACE, construction and sales on this forum and elsewhere, making it clear that the PACE program will create billions of dollars of energy efficiency construction projects, in both the residential and commercial sectors. If anyone does research on the claims I make, they can verify them with empirical evidence. This separates me from "entrepreneurial scum," people who make money in the lowest level of business. They deal in the poorest forms of creating profit. Nothing to be proud of.

I find that the more I open myself - and my business ideas - up for investigation and due diligence, the more my reputation benefits from this multiplied accessibility. The more people that introduce themselves to me here, on Instagram, via a text message or a phone call, the more I build up a network of individuals perfectly suited to work together. Very quickly, they see the weight of evidence in my favor.

Zig Ziglar, the famed sales guru of decades past, reminds us that "you can have anything you want in this world, if you help others get what they want," or something to that effect. What an eloquent expression of part of the fast lane mentality - before the fast lane ever even existed.

2017 has, so far, been a year of incredible positive energy, and the more I speak openly about the multi-million dollar construction and energy efficiency projects I'm doing, the more this energy builds and builds.

 

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[vinylawesome]

"We can afford to lose money — even a lot of money. But we can't afford to lose reputation — even a shred of reputation."

-Warren Buffett

 

[Argue]

Good artists copy; great artists steal.

 

[eTox]

Personally, I see nothing wrong here. Doesn't it all boil down to execution? It's the people that do and act on the ideas that win.

It reminds of the "he stole my idea...." or "I had that idea before"...

bullshit, I can whine about that shit all day long in every aspect of life

 

[jsk29]

All about execution in the end.

This reminds me of the documentary Triumph of the Nerds. The man who made the first actual computer barely made any money and ended up returning to his original profession (medical practice). Xerox developed the first GUI and mouse, gave Steve Jobs a tour, and proceeded to get double penetrated by Apple and Microsoft.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Here is my issue. This guy copied the product, probably based off the kickstarter video, so all he saw was the outside. I would bet that his product is inferior in terms of materials and engineering. For this little widget, people probably don't care.

I understand that this is part of business, but this is not a person that I would want to associate with. This person is chasing money and not really producing anything of value. He clearly doesn't care about his product. I would bet that his inflatable chairs were probably the thinnest and crappiest of all that were on Amazon. When you go for speed, you sacrifice quality.

Yeah, we've seen how ripping off someone else's product works out in the long run. This guy made $345k? So what? That's not very much money in the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if anyone who had this guy steal their idea saw the potential benefit in this though?

In my thinking, on some of these products he broke the market open and prepped people to buy.

So some customers might be thinking: "I love this [product], but it's a piece of crap! If only someone would make a better one!"

 

[G-Man]

I realize there is a huge sentiment of "execution is all that matters!" from many people here but personally no matter how good this guy is at executing, he's not someone I would even want to share even the name of my company with.

I have to admit I have that sentiment in the sense that I just have to live every day in an industry where nothing is ever truly original. It's packaged food, not tech.

That said, wouldn't want to be that a**hole or have him at the desk next to me. Being able to look at yourself in the mirror has value, too.

 

[Ninjakid]

To all the "well he got there first, he deserves it" people on tis thread,

This guy basically took what could have been a good product, and found the cheapest possible way to have it manufactured, which happened to be some factory in China which may or may not have even delivered, and introduced the market cheaper, low-quality products.

I guarantee you this guy had no intention on providing value, or a genuine service to people. He just took someone else's idea and had the shittiest possible version made because it would yield him the most profit with him being able to do the least amount of work. This guy is clearly scum.

The lesson here: keep your plans SECRET because of F*ckfaces like this.

 

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[Greg R]

Saw the article yesterday and was very disappointed.

The article almost sheds light on this bad behavior and makes it sound like he is a genius.

Not cool.