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[The-J]

The biggest problem I see is the lack of expertise.

I don't mean coaching expertise either, I just mean the lack of "walking to walk".

For all we know you're a couch potato trying to give fitness advice.
Or a poor person teaching others to be rich.
There's just no compelling "draw" to attract people to you right now.
Especially not for a fee of any sort.

IMHO the best coaches transition from experts in their field to expert coaches in their field.

Look at it this way - if you wanted to get your shit together, which would you pick?

1. The guy with the masters in organizational psychology and a 6-month leadership coaching certification.
OR
2. The guy who is successful who has coached others to be successful in the past?

I'd take #2 every day because there's tangible evidence of success. I know you have what I want and you've given what I want to others in the past.

#1 tells me nothing other than you know how to pass tests. I would seek you out about questions regarding leadership programs and psychology degrees but that's about it.

I realize everyone needs to start "somewhere" but IMHO jumping into coaching without a compelling history is always the wrong place to start.
If you want to teach selling on amazon, I'd like to see the numbers on your prior amazon business first.
If you want to teach facebook ads, I'd like to see the numbers behind your previous ad campaigns.
If you want to teach weight loss, I'd really love to see your before/after.

But if you want to teach coaching.... well I'd really want to see who you've coached in the past, what they have to say, and what they've gone on to do.

It's true some coaches are just really good teachers and very poor "do-ers" but that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If it works, then it's hard to really get too upset, because there's value there, but it doesn't sit right with me. Much like the folks who teach budgeting who don't use a budget themselves - it helps people, and it works, but it just feels disingenuous.

My recommendation would be to explain what you've done in the past, where you are right now, and then give free coaching to a few folks who aren't as advanced as you are. Coach them, track their progress, record the results, and then use that as a basis to charge for your services. Then you can say "I helped 4 people and all 4 went from x-box addicts to making their first $1,000 online" (or whatever).

I don't think OP should go into coaching at all. Not yet anyway.

I understand what he feels. I learn something and I immediately want to teach others how to do it too. It's a combined desire to share knowledge while at the same time show my expertise (which is very little, by the way).

This past year I learned 2 languages (not even fluently, just 'enough' lol), and I just wrote a gigantic article (yet to be released) on how to learn a language effectively. Last year I launched a single successful test FB campaign and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. Year before that, I learned how to build a funnel with Clickfunnels and test it, and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. I even got paying clients for these things, but most of them failed. (Some succeeded which is a HUGE ego boost, oh man, but they probably would have succeeded without me and I know it).

I feel that it is more prudent to wait until a few people come to YOU for advice. Then use them as case studies. Leading people to failure just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and if OP isn't careful, he'll do exactly that.

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

@404profound I'm also doing coaching and teach people how to advertise their coaching services on thefastlaneforum. If you're interested, please send me a message. I am offering this opportunity at an extremely high rate.

 

[jon.a]

I don't think OP should go into coaching at all. Not yet anyway.

I understand what he feels. I learn something and I immediately want to teach others how to do it too. It's a combined desire to share knowledge while at the same time show my expertise (which is very little, by the way).

This past year I learned 2 languages (not even fluently, just 'enough' lol), and I just wrote a gigantic article (yet to be released) on how to learn a language effectively. Last year I launched a single successful test FB campaign and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. Year before that, I learned how to build a funnel with Clickfunnels and test it, and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. I even got paying clients for these things, but most of them failed. (Some succeeded which is a HUGE ego boost, oh man, but they probably would have succeeded without me and I know it).

I feel that it is more prudent to wait until a few people come to YOU for advice. Then use them as case studies. Leading people to failure just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and if OP isn't careful, he'll do exactly that.

So, write a course on languages and FB campaign to drive traffic to your sales funnel.
You're probably already on this.

 

[Deleted50669]

I don't think OP should go into coaching at all. Not yet anyway.

I understand what he feels. I learn something and I immediately want to teach others how to do it too. It's a combined desire to share knowledge while at the same time show my expertise (which is very little, by the way).

This past year I learned 2 languages (not even fluently, just 'enough' lol), and I just wrote a gigantic article (yet to be released) on how to learn a language effectively. Last year I launched a single successful test FB campaign and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. Year before that, I learned how to build a funnel with Clickfunnels and test it, and I wanted to teach others how to do it, too. I even got paying clients for these things, but most of them failed. (Some succeeded which is a HUGE ego boost, oh man, but they probably would have succeeded without me and I know it).

I feel that it is more prudent to wait until a few people come to YOU for advice. Then use them as case studies. Leading people to failure just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and if OP isn't careful, he'll do exactly that.

Well seeing as how OP is a certified coach who has coached executives through board disputes as part of his job, unlike most other people purporting to be a coach, you know what you can do with your recommendation haha. The problem is not expertise, it's sales.


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[The-J]

So, write a course on languages and FB campaign to drive traffic to your sales funnel.
You're probably already on this.

I don't yet have enough material for a course. I do, however, have enough material to write an opt-in page to gauge interest.

Languages, just like Internet marketing and fitness, is a niche consisting mostly of scam artists who prey on the long-term nature of the pursuit. They count on people doing nothing and exposing the scam. If you don't succeed, it's your fault and you haven't stuck to the model.

Well seeing as how OP is a certified coach who has coached executives through board disputes as part of his job, unlike most other people purporting to be a coach, you know what you can do with your recommendation haha. The problem is not expertise, it's sales.

You've thoroughly convinced me (lol). What success have you had? Maybe if you could present some numbers, I'd change my recommendation. Have you improved morale, the bottom line, or inspired confidence? Can you produce testimonials?

Also, if you can't sell a coaching service, don't go into coaching lol

 

[Deleted50669]

I don't yet have enough material for a course. I do, however, have enough material to write an opt-in page to gauge interest.

Languages, just like Internet marketing and fitness, is a niche consisting mostly of scam artists who prey on the long-term nature of the pursuit. They count on people doing nothing and exposing the scam. If you don't succeed, it's your fault and you haven't stuck to the model.



You've thoroughly convinced me (lol). What success have you had? Maybe if you could present some numbers, I'd change my recommendation. Have you improved morale, the bottom line, or inspired confidence? Can you produce testimonials?

Also, if you can't sell a coaching service, don't go into coaching lol

I can produce any of those. I no longer see a need to since in the past week I've filed an LLC and procured a domain name to begin building out the marketing platform. I have 3 mentors helping with sales and strat comms as well. This forum hasn't served any purpose beyond discouragement and being told why you're inadequate. I wish you all luck in your cynical one-uppery.


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[jon.a]

Well seeing as how OP is a certified coach who has coached executives through board disputes as part of his job, unlike most other people purporting to be a coach, you know what you can do with your recommendation haha. The problem is not expertise, it's sales.


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What I read didn't really seem like all that much expertise.
Does your coaching include written communications skills?
Check your attitude.

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

This forum hasn't served any purpose beyond discouragement and being told why you're inadequate.

For what it's worth, I think you're great. You're gonna do amazing as a coach.

You already filed an LLC and have 3 mentors. On top of that you have 6-month leadership coaching certification under your belt and 74 hours of leadership coaching (a whole 1.85 work weeks!)!!

Don't get discouraged from this forum. We all love you man and think you're amazing.

On top of that, we're all incredibly impressed with your mastery of the socratic method. If there's anyone that's an expert in coaching using the socratic method, then it's definitely you!

 

[JAJT]

who has coached executives through board disputes as part of his job

Why would you not put that in your first post?
Or as a response to folks questioning your credentials?

You just can't say "I'm a coach, let me coach you, it's cheap" and think people will line up.
If you had opened with "I've coached CEOs", well shit - now we're listening. Go F*cking on and talk about that more.

If you have credentials, talk to them, and we'll listen.
That professional exec experience should have been your opening statement.
With coaching ESPECIALLY you need to build up a case as to why anyone should pay you.

This is the 3rd or 4th thread in the last week or so where a new user comes in, says something ridiculous, gets called out on it (with people offering advice and frank criticisms on the subject), then gets followed up with "F*ck you guys, you don't get it, this place sucks".

We're not hear to tear anyone down for no reason but we're also not a bunch of mindless cheerleaders.

You want to take money from members here?
Yeah, we're going to have some questions and we kind of expect really good answers.
How was that not expected?

 

[The-J]

I can produce any of those. I no longer see a need to since in the past week I've filed an LLC and procured a domain name to begin building out the marketing platform. I have 3 mentors helping with sales and strat comms as well. This forum hasn't served any purpose beyond discouragement and being told why you're inadequate. I wish you all luck in your cynical one-uppery.


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That's a good thing, man. We're trying to talk people down from a terrible idea and maybe yours isn't terrible. If you CAN produce numbers and results, even if vaguely, why didn't you do so? Why do you not feel the need? It just doesn't add up.

I've met all sorts of coaches. They usually go from a job/business, to consultancy, to coach. They choose coaching in order to reach a greater audience. Yet there's this huge push (from BRO-marketers, largely) to turning anyone who knows how to read into a 6/7 figure coach! "Do what I do, make what I make, teach whatever you like!" I fear that you've been pushed in this direction and it might not be for you.

I used myself as an example of what NOT to do, that is, learn something for a year and then decide to coach. I did it and I consider it a failure. Did it make me a living? A very small one. But it also cost other people money, not on just me but on failed campaigns. Now I don't know if it would have failed with someone else at the helm (or if they should have been told 'Don't do this, it's doomed, do something else'). All I know is that it cost me potential connections and hurt my reputation among some circles of people. Maybe I'm just sensitive, I don't know.

Please don't make the mistakes I did. And if you're going to prove me wrong, please do it spectacularly.

I wish you luck.

 

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[Deleted50669]

I let my emotions dominate my reply, and I apologize. Not used to this level of scrutiny, but in reality I need it.


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[jon.a]

I let my emotions dominate my reply, and I apologize. Not used to this level of scrutiny, but in reality I need it.


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You could gather your thoughts and if you feel that you ready buy a Marketplace ad. We are less likely to dump on a paid ad. However @MJ DeMarco has new rules and I don't know if you qualify and can't be bothered to check for you. My guess is though that you probably need more experience, both in coaching and selling yourself.

 

[The-J]

I let my emotions dominate my reply, and I apologize. Not used to this level of scrutiny, but in reality I need it.


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Rep+++ for sucking it up and taking it like a man. We're (at least I'm) not out to put people down or shit on ideas. But it kinda just happens. There's too many wannabe's out there and we wanna see fewer of em.

So what are your next steps? Maybe this will be of some help:

• Identify exactly HOW you can be of most value to your target market.
• Figure out HOW to package this into something accessible to your market. It might not be coaching; it might be consultancy, a service, an audit, or a report.
• Identify the best way to REACH this market with this offer.
• Come up with ways to COMMUNICATE your value to this market.

You may have done the first 3 already, but you still need serious work on the last. If you cannot convince a rag-tag group of entrepreneurs from the Internet that you're of value, then you're gonna have a hard time; but never fear, we may not be your market.

"404profound's sexy offer is trusted by leaders of x, y, z company. He comes with a unique perspective from a, b, c experience/education. Buy this thingy and stop making these mistakes/learn what the pros are doing/get the results you've always wanted" - just off the top, maybe not the best way to say it but you get the gist

 

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[Deleted50669]

Rep+++ for sucking it up and taking it like a man. We're (at least I'm) not out to put people down or shit on ideas. But it kinda just happens. There's too many wannabe's out there and we wanna see fewer of em.

So what are your next steps? Maybe this will be of some help:

• Identify exactly HOW you can be of most value to your target market.
• Figure out HOW to package this into something accessible to your market. It might not be coaching; it might be consultancy, a service, an audit, or a report.
• Identify the best way to REACH this market with this offer.
• Come up with ways to COMMUNICATE your value to this market.

You may have done the first 3 already, but you still need serious work on the last. If you cannot convince a rag-tag group of entrepreneurs from the Internet that you're of value, then you're gonna have a hard time; but never fear, we may not be your market.

"404profound's sexy offer is trusted by leaders of x, y, z company. He comes with a unique perspective from a, b, c experience/education. Buy this thingy and stop making these mistakes/learn what the pros are doing/get the results you've always wanted" - just off the top, maybe not the best way to say it but you get the gist

Thank you for this insight. I definitely need to do some brainstorming / creative thinking around this. The most common resistance I encounter - with anyone in any market - is "you're 26, and you have no business coaching me." I am at war with others' egos that create an invalid ageist screening process. When they let me in, they improve, because I confront them on a deep and objective level that enables changes to their belief system. But getting them to take the risk is the million dollar question. It wouldn't hurt me to work on getting more referrals either.

 

[The-J]

Thank you for this insight. I definitely need to do some brainstorming / creative thinking around this. The most common resistance I encounter - with anyone in any market - is "you're 26, and you have no business coaching me." I am at war with others' egos that create an invalid ageist screening process. When they let me in, they improve, because I confront them on a deep and objective level that enables changes to their belief system. But getting them to take the risk is the million dollar question. It wouldn't hurt me to work on getting more referrals either.

There will be some situations where your age will work against you, and some that will work for you.

Being young in a room full of people 45+ (meaning 20+ years of experience) is a blessing in that you can be seen as someone with novel ideas, someone who tries new things and brings them to light.

If you're young, you can't sell experience or expertise in a field. You can sell novelty, creativity, insight into the 'millennial' market, and insight into new technologies. The next big idea. Thinking outside the box.

Now, if you walked into a room together with someone twice your age with experience and they trust you, you will get a completely different reception. "If this guy trusts this 26 year old kid, then he must be something special. Maybe he's got the next big idea."

If you walk into a room full of older people, they probably won't look at you and be like 'What are you doing here?" They'll be curious as to how you got into that room in the first place. They'll have questions. If they come to you and you say "Well I use my expertise and research to improve your business" they'll be like "pff". If you say "I'm here because I had an idea that could change the way people do things, and our initial trials were more than satisfactory. Would you like to learn more?" their ears will be a little bit more perked. (Other people are set in their ways.)

 

[Deleted50669]

There will be some situations where your age will work against you, and some that will work for you.

Being young in a room full of people 45+ (meaning 20+ years of experience) is a blessing in that you can be seen as someone with novel ideas, someone who tries new things and brings them to light.

If you're young, you can't sell experience or expertise in a field. You can sell novelty, creativity, insight into the 'millennial' market, and insight into new technologies. The next big idea. Thinking outside the box.

Now, if you walked into a room together with someone twice your age with experience and they trust you, you will get a completely different reception. "If this guy trusts this 26 year old kid, then he must be something special. Maybe he's got the next big idea."

If you walk into a room full of older people, they probably won't look at you and be like 'What are you doing here?" They'll be curious as to how you got into that room in the first place. They'll have questions. If they come to you and you say "Well I use my expertise and research to improve your business" they'll be like "pff". If you say "I'm here because I had an idea that could change the way people do things, and our initial trials were more than satisfactory. Would you like to learn more?" their ears will be a little bit more perked. (Other people are set in their ways.)

It's starting to dawn on me, coaching is my purpose. It isn't CENTS, it's the end. A CENTS business is the means that will get me to coaching on my terms.


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[AndrewNC]

They clarified the personal challenges getting in the way of their career goals and developed a plan to gain the appropriate mindsets, skills, and practice to overcome them. In one scenario, a vice president had frequent disputes with her board, and I coached her around becoming less emotionally reactive to criticism. In another instance, I coached a new manager to build his delegation skills.

I appreciate you pushing me to consider these pieces. I see how a client would be left in the dark without those elements. Thank you.

As some of the past posts suggest, you are getting a lot of feedback in terms of 'walking the walk' and your experience vs. credentials and bullet points. One thing that has helped me on my journey is to really narrow down and understand the market I am serving. Different types of people value different things.

• On this forum, they want to learn from someone who actually built a business before as a founder/entrepreneur.
• For your corporate clients, it appears that market values the credentials and bullet points you listed.

I was on a phone call with a man who is a corporate coach and gets paid $50k-$60k for a 6 month contract per corporation he works with. His advice to me was credentials, credentials, credentials. The advice you get here is build a business first, help others, get results for them, and then offer services.

Before moving forward, I would say it could be helpful to really narrow down which road you want to walk.

For me, I have experience since 2014 helping others build their businesses....and have the data and results to show for it...But that means nothing in the world of the corporate coach who was giving me advice. I would have to walk down the road of credentials from a high-tier university.

Which path are you most wanting to walk down for your career?

 

[Andy Black]

Some threads that might help:

• (Personal Branding Tip) How to build a personal brand in one easy step
• How to build a personal brand from nothing
• People listen to experts, they follow leaders
• Article from Justin Jackson: Just Help People

 

[cat]

You could gather your thoughts and if you feel that you ready buy a Marketplace ad. We are less likely to dump on a paid ad. However @MJ DeMarco has new rules and I don't know if you qualify and can't be bothered to check for you. My guess is though that you probably need more experience, both in coaching and selling yourself.

Here is what I see - opportunities and a huge learning experience for you, indirectly for me, and anyone else who reads this thread.

Thank you for being brave and posting in the first place! Then for sticking it out as what appears on the surface as a nit-picking beat down, but really is some HUGE lessons in marketing and copy from some of the best guys on here!

No matter where you are in life, or how much money you've got in the bank, there is always something more to learn and know.

Best of luck in your coaching career!


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[Andy Black]

It's starting to dawn on me, coaching is my purpose. It isn't CENTS, it's the end. A CENTS business is the means that will get me to coaching on my terms.

Finding your purpose is a power thing imo.

• "Clarity of Purpose"
• Finding your focus

I get it. I like coaching too. I'm good at it, and I get a buzz out of helping people.

• I coach local kids trying to pass their Leaving Cert Maths and get into college.
• I coach my kids.
• I coach my team members, and clients (and they coach me back).
• Some people also say that posting in here helps them.

I've been asked a few times to coach people on AdWords, but I refuse now.

• I'm busy building my business.
• I don't want to build a business coaching people to acquire my skills, but to build a business *with* my skills.
• One day when I've accomplished what I set out to then I'll probably do more coaching.
• That's just me though. We all have our own paths to blaze. Do you.

 

[wade1mil]

The problem is not expertise, it's sales.

What if I need coaching in sales?

 

[Deleted50669]

What if I need coaching in sales?

I could not consult you on sales improvement, but I could coach you on it. Coaching is not reliant on expertise. It's reliant on adequate listening skills and inquiry.


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[garyjsmith]

What if I need coaching in sales?

That's when he refers me. I'm also in the DC area and can improve your sales in the first week.