The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Timmy C]

If someone wants a contrast from the narrative.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMTZu6_TjU8

Edit: NOT saying I believe everything the guy's saying. But it's important to see the other side in a way that isn't downplaying it.

Interesting point of view.

who is this Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus?

Candidate to Lead the W.H.O. Accused of Covering Up Epidemics (Published 2017)

As Ethiopia’s health minister, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus ignored cholera outbreaks, a global health expert and adviser to a rival candidate charges.

www.nytimes.com

Here is a article of him being accused.

a piece from another source below

''A leading global health expert, an adviser to a rival candidate for the WHO's top job, alleged that Tedros had covered up three cholera epidemics in the East African country, with his opponents claiming that he had discouraged media from covering the cases. Tedros denied the accusations, calling them a "last-minute smear campaign" ahead of the election for the new director-general.

From 2012 to 2016, Tedros held the foreign ministry portfolio.''

Accused but not convicted from what i can tell, but it makes you wonder, doesnt it.

Take into account also a rival candidate said that.

''During this time, rights groups such as Human Rights Watch and foreign officials accused the government in Addis Ababa of killing hundreds of protesters and displacing thousands more, as well as jailing and torturing political opponents and media workers. ''

Thats a bit f*cked up. how can he be a leader of WHO?

 

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[Tom H.]

I have a ton of respect for Dr Ron Paul. I hadn't seen anything by him lately, so I was pretty shocked to see he thinks COVID19 is basically a hoax. There doesn't seem to be any way of reconcilling his views and Dr Fauci's views. Listening to Paul, it seems that either he is insane, or Fauci is evil.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYH0LskZWVg

Dr. Paul is not known for being crazy, he's just not that kind of guy. He IS known for spotting b.s.

 

[NovaAria]

So he lost all deposits and they wouldn't move them to a postponement date?
The destination wedding planners I know in Bali and their vendors are helping people postpone while letting them move/keep their deposits.

Some of them are going under. Business dies in Autumn/Winter and picks up in Spring/Summer. So they pretty much waited 6 months for when business blooms, only to get a near 100% cancellation rate.

On a related note, there is a lot of grumbling here from small business owners. The government just promised plenty of buybacks, tax breaks and financial aids for the huge corps and multinationals, but pretty much nothing for the Mom and Pop's B&M shop.
The last thing we need is social unrest, now.

 

[Suzanne Bazemore]

I've had the tweaked eye from a cavity before, I think the nerve in the tooth runs past the eye, or something like that. I'm in the US. I should make it until Monday, it's mostly a stinging feeling. The upper teeth are in your head, so an infection spreading from there is worse than an infection in your jaw. Maybe I could get antibiotics and delay dealing with it for a few weeks while the virus stuff plays out.

I don't know where you are located, but, honestly, I would probably just go ahead and deal with the tooth ASAP. People shouldn't get out unnecessarily, but this seems necessary, because infected teeth can be dangerous, not to mention the pain, which I am not into.

 

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[Suzanne Bazemore]

Anyone else noticing a reset in dopamine levels/feeling way more gratitude?

Not to sound cheesy but I catch myself really enjoying simple things and just feeling really good. Last night I was thinking how comfy my couch was for like 5 minutes haha.

I know there is a lot wrong right now but there is so much to be happy and grateful about also - we might be all stuck inside but we still live better than 99.99% of people who ever lived.

@Fox, I have been feeling like this, too. I have so many things to appreciate, including being "stuck" at home. I am grateful that this opportunity feels like a challenge. I enjoy being able to cook dinner. Yesterday, I laid in the grass and watched the clouds. Today, I hope I get a chance to walk in the rain (unless, of course, lightening is involved, and, also, the rain must be warm).

Edit: and yes, I will also take steps to achieve my business goals.

 

[c_morris]

If someone wants a contrast from the narrative.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMTZu6_TjU8

Edit: NOT saying I believe everything the guy's saying. But it's important to see the other side in a way that isn't downplaying it.

The biggest question I got from all of this is:

If he's right, how is he still alive?

I believe some of what he is saying. Times like this, 9/11, etc. give governments "reasons" to exert more control over the population. I don't, however, see this playing out as he described over the next 10 years.

Also, have I been flagged because I watched it??

 

[NovaAria]

We are entering "tin-foil hat" territory here, but if you feel like taking a peek down the rabbit hole, check the ID2020 project.

What better reason to give a global ID to every single citizen out there and keep track of them than for "their own good"?
Reminds me of the movie Contagion where in the end (spoiler alert) people have to wear an arm band with serial numbers on to prove that they have been vaxinated in order to enter public places. We have the technology to bypass the arm-band and turn the whole thing into a biochip... So why not do it?

 

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[Mammoth]

If someone wants a contrast from the narrative.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMTZu6_TjU8

Edit: NOT saying I believe everything the guy's saying. But it's important to see the other side in a way that isn't downplaying it.

I get that you don't believe everything that he's saying.

But Icke believes that the leaders of the world are reptilian shapeshifters...so I would take anything he says with a truck of salt.

 

[GIlman]

I have a ton of respect for Dr Ron Paul. I hadn't seen anything by him lately, so I was pretty shocked to see he thinks COVID19 is basically a hoax. There doesn't seem to be any way of reconcilling his views and Dr Fauci's views. Listening to Paul, it seems that either he is insane, or Fauci is evil.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYH0LskZWVg

I have a lot of respect for Dr Paul, but we always have to remember that two (or more things) things can always be true at the same time.

1) government uses crisis to infringe rights and take away freedoms. This is 100% true. We saw this after 9/11, we are seeing this now. Expect to see local, state, and federal government move to use this situation to their advantage. The scared masses will demand the government act and willingly give up their freedom. I believe we have to be willing to endure some pain to prevent government from intruding into our lives, I’m sure many disagree with this and welcome the promise of financial and physical safety.

the other truth

2) pandemics are real, lots of people can and do die in very short periods of time. More people die from disease than war.

another truth

3) No two diseases are created equal. He cites tuberculosis as an example killing > 1 million people per year. However patients with tuberculosis usually die 2-3 years after onset of their illness, not days after the first develop symptoms. Because of this very slow disease progression, tuberculosis patients do not overrun ER’s and collapse heath care systems.

it’s hard to know what the right balance is here, however my personal bent is to err on the side of freedom and be quite cautious about government power grabs. Only time will tell the true cost in freedom and gold this all cost us, most likely the benefit we receive will not be worth the cost the government demands.

 

[Thoelt53]

I’m hearing that Massachusetts residents will be ordered to shelter in place sometime this weekend or even as soon as today.

 

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[RazorCut]

But Icke believes that the leaders of the world are reptilian shapeshifters...so I would take anything he says with a truck of salt.

Well most wouldn’t class MJ as a conspiracy junkie but he started this thread:

HOT! - Tin Foil Hat Time: Are Aliens Here?

I consider myself open minded and today I'm going to admit that I'm leaning toward the idea that aliens are here and have been visiting Earth ever since the first atomic bomb went off. While I'm not radically entrenched in that belief (I'd say it fluctuates between 60/40 and 70/30 in favor of...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

I took an extensive trip down that particular rabbit hole a few years ago and I don’t mind admitting I had some very restless nights sleep. 2030 still has me worried. That date crops up everywhere. I don’t suggest anyone venture down that hole at the moment. After all we currently have enough on our plate.

 

[ChrisV]

that’s true. I guess it was just my personality to have the validity of my arguments and analysis stand on their own without appealing to authority of outing a Dr. by my name. But you are probably right that it would help give people more confidence what I am saying.

Yea, I didn’t even realize you were a doctor. The posts definitely stand on their own two legs but I admit knowing you have a medical background just gave me extra confidence.

But just for the record @GIlman is doing science completely right: allowing the strength of the evidence take the lead rather than credentials.

A quote from Dr. Ben Goldacre:

“We'll start with the absolute weakest form of evidence known to man, and that is authority. In science, we don't care how many letters you have after your name -- we want to know what your reasons are for believing something. How do you know that something is good for us or bad for us? But we're also unimpressed by authority because it's so easy to contrive.”

That’s exactly how scientists are trained to operate and i give @GIlman tons of credit for building his reputation from scratch with us.

That being said, the lay public are more likely to listen if you let your credentials be known.

Re: @Fox ’s gratitude question.. I certainly feel more gratitude. Things I’ve just taken for granted are potentially at risk. My family, modern civilization, FOOD, money (and the value of money,) maybe internet access. We’re scared because there’s a SLIGHT possibility that for 2 weeks we might have to live without things our ancestors never even saw for billions of years. It really makes you appreciate what an amazing society we’ve built.

#firstworldproblems

Also the response to this is something out of a Sci-Fi movie. Everyone is winging it but everyone is doing their parts: public and especially private sector (even though the private sector really don’t have much more to gain.)

 

[Ernman]

I guess I will wait until Monday, see how the pain is, and call the dentist. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to magically get better. Other than having a probably cavity, I could spend months without seeing a soul. I'm not sure if it would be better to go see a dentist *sooner* or *later*

Call your dentist on Monday. Dental problems can be an "open" invitation for nasty's directly into our blood stream. (Like my highly technical medical language?) Seriously, you should get this checked. Assuming your dentist is a responsible doctor, they will take the necessary precautions to protect you and themselves.

PS: For the record - I hate going to the dentist.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

NY Gov's press conference cited that they are testing higher infection rates (per capita) than both S. Korea and China. The market dropped like a rock seconds later from what was otherwise, a decent day. Could be knee-jerk or it might follow thru the rest of the day.

 

[Ernman]

I have a lot of respect for Dr Paul, but we always have to remember that two (or more things) things can always be true at the same time.

1) government uses crisis to infringe rights and take away freedoms. This is 100% true. We saw this after 9/11, we are seeing this now. Expect to see local, state, and federal government move to use this situation to their advantage. The scared masses will demand the government act and willingly give up their freedom. I believe we have to be willing to endure some pain to prevent government from intruding into our lives, I’m sure many disagree with this and welcome the promise of financial and physical safety.

the other truth

2) pandemics are real, lots of people can and do die in very short periods of time. More people die from disease than war.

another truth

3) No two diseases are created equal. He cites tuberculosis as an example killing > 1 million people per year. However patients with tuberculosis usually die 2-3 years after onset of their illness, not days after the first develop symptoms. Because of this very slow disease progression, tuberculosis patients do not overrun ER’s and collapse heath care systems.

it’s hard to know what the right balance is here, however my personal bent is to err on the side of freedom and be quite cautious about government power grabs. Only time will tell the true cost in freedom and gold this all cost us, most likely the benefit we receive will not be worth the cost the government demands.

Spot on @GIlman - While I do believe governments have an obligation to take temporary measures needed to protect the general public, those temporary measures have a nasty habit of becoming permanent. Worse yet, those who would question them get labeled as anti-[input respective nationality].

 

[Kshatriya]

Yesterday, Indian Prime Minister has called the residents for a few things like ...

1. A nationwide Volunteer Curfew (Janta Curfew) on Sunday, March 22, 2020, from 07:00 am - 09:00 pm. Only emergency goods and services will be available.
2. To come out on balconies, behind windows or through the doors during 5:00 pm–05:05 pm and show gratitude to those working day and night relentlessly—such as Medical personnel, food delivery personnel, bus, taxi and rickshaw drivers, railway and airport employees, security personnel, sanitation and other government employees and media personnel.
3. Postpone non-critical, planned surgeries and routine health check-ups by a month in order to reduce the work pressure on the medical staff.
4. All residents should only step outside if it's necessary.
5. People older than 60 to not come outside.
6. Not to cut wages of housekeepers, gardeners, drivers etc.
7. Don't fall for panic buying. Govt. has taken the necessary steps to ensure all essential goods will be available in future.
8. Stay away from rumours.

Also, he has informed about the formation of "C0VlD-19 Economic Response Task Force".

 

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[Jon L]

The Doctor Who Helped Defeat Smallpox Explains What's Coming

Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant, who warned of pandemic in 2006, says we can beat the novel coronavirus—but first, we need lots more testing.

www.wired.com

Worth reading

 

[JAJT]

I have a ton of respect for Dr Ron Paul.

I've never heard of this guy before, so this is my take without context.

That video set off my BS alarm pretty significantly. It sounds very much like most other anti-science videos/articles/posts you see on just about any subject.

Everything he says is just opinion and speculation. He dismisses facts by saying there aren't any facts. He provides no evidence of his own. It's ridiculous.

Here's how I take this, point by point:

1. He starts by making a big, bold claim (that it's a hoax) that is designed to be boldly contrarian to all creditable sources and appeal directly to the kinds of people who focus on their own conclusions rather than facts. The disease is real, the effects are real, the deaths are real. Nothing about this is a "hoax". If he wants to dispute some aspect of the disease specifically he could have said so but instead he slams the entire subject (coronavirus) right up next to a bold claim (hoax).

2. He makes a correlation that isn't similar to help support his claim. 9/11 compared to this virus. Those aren't the same. He's borrowing credibility from a dissimilar event. He's using the fear of erosion of freedoms to get people riled up.

3. He immediately makes it political. "The same democrats who...". This isn't impartial. He's not looking at what the entire political spectrum is doing. He's targeting democrats. Whether you like or dislike democrats isn't really relevant - the fact that he's taking a one-sided partisan stance against them to help feed his audience exactly what they want to hear though, is. He later goes on to criticize conservatives for this or that but the hard push on political targeting out of the gate is a red flag to me.

4. He downplays the disease by saying it's "only killed less than 100 Americans". I guess that sounds better than "killed over 10,000 people worldwide in the last 3 months". If he were being honest he'd talk about how American's present situation relates to other country's at this point in time in the virus's evolution. Is 100 Americans better or worse by this point in time compared to other countries? Doesn't matter, he's downplaying without context.

5. He makes it sound like the various emergency bills set to slow down the spread of the virus is feeding into authoritarian agendas and makes "closing down the entire state" sound ridiculous. Again, no context, no discussion, no pros and cons. Just feeding the audience what they want to hear.

6. Calls an infectious disease expert the "head of fear mongering". I mean... come on. Goes on to say he's throwing out lies to stir up panic.

7. Takes a well accepted, evidence-based claim (death rate 10x worse than flu) and says it lacks any evidence whatsoever. Hilarious. He could criticize the numbers with his own numbers but that's hard since the numbers don't support his claim. Easier to just say the data is wrong.

8. Puts the number of deaths at less than half the real number in addition to more personal attacks on reasonable statements by the expert.

9. Back to making false comparisons, he mentions tuberculosis. Doesn't go into infectious rate, death rate, effect on hospital resources, or anything. Just says "well THIS isn't being talked about so why is THAT being talked about". Nonsense.

10. Says that by doing logical things to help slow the virus will actually make the virus worse. His suggestion is to mingle MORE outside to help "boost immunity" through fresh air and sunshine. LOL.

11. Reductio ad Absurdum - a personal favorite. Saying that declaring a war measure is stupid because they'll send tanks and bombs against the virus. Clearly he's being sarcastic but again - it's all to fuel the conclusions of those watching without actually discussing what that factoid would ACTUALLY mean.

What's frustrating is that he HAS A POINT - governments loving snatching power in a crisis and not giving it back. THAT should have been the point of this video. Not the 4 minutes of utter ridiculous nonsense before it. Because it actually is a very good point.

This is really over-simplified and any given point above could have been 5-10x longer but I figured I'd walk you through how I listen to videos like this and what sets off my "critical thinking alarms". He may very well have a point to any of the above things I criticized but the lack of good faith arguing on those points and obvious pandering and misleading is a huge red flag to me.

Again, I don't know this guy - maybe he's normally spot-on. But this video was ridiculous. It's one-sided, provides no proof, is treating the discussion in bad faith, and just fuels the anti-science crowd that will eat this up.

 

[Premixedd]

Unfortunately I set off a chain of reactions at my work with my fellow employees trying to follow my suit after I enacted my personal leave.

The branch manager and operations managers are trying to deal with a handful of distraught warehouse workers who are upset that everyone who works inside the building gets to work from home and they can’t (not physically possible, obviously).

Of course, there’s also other people who are trying to take personal leave only because I did it, and they want to take time off.

I acted solely out of logic and was being proactive to keep myself and my family out of unnecessary risk. I can’t say they are doing it for the same reasons, which is making me look like a scapegoat here.

Unfortunate, but I’m willing to take this heat and deal with this mess if and when I come back to work.

 

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[Mattie]

Hence the UK U-turn. I think Boris was taking a big gamble with people’s lives by straying away from the WHO advice. I hope the UK hasn’t left it too late.

Stay Healthy Andy and eat some of that ice cream. Probably around 3000 something tomorrow here. Glad to see there's plenty there for you and your neighbors. Best wishes!

 

[LightningHelix]

I have a ton of respect for Dr Ron Paul. I hadn't seen anything by him lately, so I was pretty shocked to see he thinks COVID19 is basically a hoax. There doesn't seem to be any way of reconcilling his views and Dr Fauci's views. Listening to Paul, it seems that either he is insane, or Fauci is evil.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYH0LskZWVg

I used to respect Ron Paul, but it seems like he's gone from Liberatarian Paragon to full blown conspiracy theorist.

The idea that the US wants to tank its own economy in order to establish martial law is ridiculous to me.

Is what is going on in Italy a hoax too?

 

[loop101]

I've never heard of this guy before, so this is my take without context.

That video set off my BS alarm pretty significantly. It sounds very much like most other anti-science videos/articles/posts you see on just about any subject.

Everything he says is just opinion and speculation. He dismisses facts by saying there aren't any facts. He provides no evidence of his own. It's ridiculous.

Here's how I take this, point by point:

1. He starts by making a big, bold claim (that it's a hoax) that is designed to be boldly contrarian to all creditable sources and appeal directly to the kinds of people who focus on their own conclusions rather than facts. The disease is real, the effects are real, the deaths are real. Nothing about this is a "hoax". If he wants to dispute some aspect of the disease specifically he could have said so but instead he slams the entire subject (coronavirus) right up next to a bold claim (hoax).

2. He makes a correlation that isn't similar to help support his claim. 9/11 compared to this virus. Those aren't the same. He's borrowing credibility from a dissimilar event. He's using the fear of erosion of freedoms to get people riled up.

3. He immediately makes it political. "The same democrats who...". This isn't impartial. He's not looking at what the entire political spectrum is doing. He's targeting democrats. Whether you like or dislike democrats isn't really relevant - the fact that he's taking a one-sided partisan stance against them to help feed his audience exactly what they want to hear though, is. He later goes on to criticize conservatives for this or that but the hard push on political targeting out of the gate is a red flag to me.

4. He downplays the disease by saying it's "only killed less than 100 Americans". I guess that sounds better than "killed over 10,000 people worldwide in the last 3 months". If he were being honest he'd talk about how American's present situation relates to other country's at this point in time in the virus's evolution. Is 100 Americans better or worse by this point in time compared to other countries? Doesn't matter, he's downplaying without context.

5. He makes it sound like the various emergency bills set to slow down the spread of the virus is feeding into authoritarian agendas and makes "closing down the entire state" sound ridiculous. Again, no context, no discussion, no pros and cons. Just feeding the audience what they want to hear.

6. Calls an infectious disease expert the "head of fear mongering". I mean... come on. Goes on to say he's throwing out lies to stir up panic.

7. Takes a well accepted, evidence-based claim (death rate 10x worse than flu) and says it lacks any evidence whatsoever. Hilarious. He could criticize the numbers with his own numbers but that's hard since the numbers don't support his claim. Easier to just say the data is wrong.

8. Puts the number of deaths at less than half the real number in addition to more personal attacks on reasonable statements by the expert.

9. Back to making false comparisons, he mentions tuberculosis. Doesn't go into infectious rate, death rate, effect on hospital resources, or anything. Just says "well THIS isn't being talked about so why is THAT being talked about". Nonsense.

10. Says that by doing logical things to help slow the virus will actually make the virus worse. His suggestion is to mingle MORE outside to help "boost immunity" through fresh air and sunshine. LOL.

11. Reductio ad Absurdum - a personal favorite. Saying that declaring a war measure is stupid because they'll send tanks and bombs against the virus. Clearly he's being sarcastic but again - it's all to fuel the conclusions of those watching without actually discussing what that factoid would ACTUALLY mean.

What's frustrating is that he HAS A POINT - governments loving snatching power in a crisis and not giving it back. THAT should have been the point of this video. Not the 4 minutes of utter ridiculous nonsense before it. Because it actually is a very good point.

This is really over-simplified and any given point above could have been 5-10x longer but I figured I'd walk you through how I listen to videos like this and what sets off my "critical thinking alarms". He may very well have a point to any of the above things I criticized but the lack of good faith arguing on those points and obvious pandering and misleading is a huge red flag to me.

Again, I don't know this guy - maybe he's normally spot-on. But this video was ridiculous. It's one-sided, provides no proof, is treating the discussion in bad faith, and just fuels the anti-science crowd that will eat this up.

Ron Paul is a retired doctor and retired Congressman in the United States. He is against big government, and his views spawned the Tea Party movement. His son, Rand Paul, is also a Congressman. Ron Paul is generally considered super-honest about everything. Hearing him say its mostly a hoax is like hearing your favorite uncle turned out to be a serial killer.

 

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[loop101]

I used to respect Ron Paul, but it seems like he's gone from Liberatarian Paragon to full blown conspiracy theorist.

The idea that the US wants to tank its own economy in order to establish martial law is ridiculous to me.

Is what is going on in Italy a hoax too?

He's been out of the news since he retired, so I haven't been hearing what he had to say. I guess I'd have to listen to a bunch of his recent videos to figure out where he is coming from, but I'm too busy right now. I agree, the crisis in Italy shows its not a hoax. I thought that video was edited to make him sound crazy, but its real.

 

[loop101]

NYC doctors already using HCQ

View: https://youtu.be/j64-FlVFezs?t=57

 

[Devampre]

I'm always skeptical about the information being shared, especially from mass media, but also some information from lesser known media sources. But, I sure do like entertaining conspiracies:

• I've heard this virus was not a natural mutation, but rather a bioweapon and that it may have been deployed intentionally for disruption for a certain group to benefit both politically and economically.
• This was an act of bio-terrorism carried out before the next US election to kill or devalue Donald Trump
• This could be the works of the fabled New World Order. What some assumed would be a fake alien invasion is actually bio-terrorism in an effort to gain more control over the people.

I truthfully don't know! It could be that this was a natural virus mutation from a wet market. The only thing I do know is that many people stopped talking about Jeffrey Epstein's "suicide."

 

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[GIlman]

I used to respect Ron Paul, but it seems like he's gone from Liberatarian Paragon to full blown conspiracy theorist.

The idea that the US wants to tank its own economy in order to establish martial law is ridiculous to me.

Is what is going on in Italy a hoax too?

it very well could be, I haven’t really seen anything from Ron Paul in 5-10 years, but that video does seem to be a different type of messaging than I saw from him in the past. He was always about personal responsibility and limited government. But I don’t recall him being into conspiracy theory before.

 

[GIlman]

in doing research for an upcoming episode of my podcast I came upon information that makes it seem hopeful that chloroquine may be effective against coronavirus.

My Podcast Notes:


Ive been curious why chloroquine may work, if it does at all. But we would expect there to be some reasonable mechanism of action how it could disrupt the life cycle of the virus.

This lifecycle can be simplified to be Attachment of the virus particle to the ACE2 receptor, uptake of the RNA of the virus into the cell, production of new virus RNA and shell, packaging of the RNA into the virus she’ll, release of the virus from the cell. For a medication to work against the virus there has to be a significant disruption of one of these steps.

Here is a plausible reason how chloroquine and hydroxycloroquine could accomplish this.

Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore

Chloroquine is an established antimalarial agent that has been recently tested in clinical trials for its anticancer activity. The favorable effect of chloroquine appears to be due to its ability to sensitize cancerous cells to chemotherapy, radiation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

it appears that chloroquine has been shown in the lab to disrupt normal function of your cells lysosomes. From this paper it appears to facilitate uptake if zinc into the lysosomes, which somehow disrupts their normal functioning. Lysosomes are an important structure in getting things from the outside to inside of the cell among other things

Lysosomal Proteases Are a Determinant of Coronavirus Tropism - PubMed

Cell entry by coronaviruses involves two principal steps, receptor binding and membrane fusion; the latter requires activation by host proteases, particularly lysosomal proteases. Despite the importance of lysosomal proteases in both coronavirus entry and cell metabolism, the correlation between...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It appears the coronavirus Requires the lysosome to gain entry into the cell.

based on these two facts it seems plausible that the chloroquine class drugs could indeed interfere with the virus function getting into your cells, and so in theory it could be effective in stopping the virus being able to infect more cells. The question is if these drugs cause a meaningful disruption of the lysosomal system as it relates to virus uptake.

based on this, it’s hopeful, but does need to be proven that chloroquine can stop coronavirus infection, at least enough for your body to get the upper hand. Studies must be done to prove this.

one other thing I want to point out. Taking chloroquine is not considered compassionate use treatment. That is when we use a drug that has not had the safety demonstrated in extensive testing. Basically the person taking it is a lab rat we are doing research on. Usually we only do this in people we believe are going to die 100% short of a miracle.

This is what we would call off label use. Chloroquine drugs have been extensively studied already for their use in treating malaria and also some forms of arthritis. So we know the general safety profile. There are lots of drugs that are used off label.

A good example is Botox, it was created to treat people with nerve and other injuries that had muscle spasms. People realized its paralytic effect on muscle could be used to relax face muscles and reduce wrinkles. Doctors were injectingBotox for many years before an actual approval by the FDA for wrinkles was given. But, the safety part had already been demonstrated for treating muscle spasm. The studies for wrinkles were to prove effectiveness, safety was already known.

Since the chloroquine drugs have been tested and we know the safety and side effects in general, and there is a plausible mechanism how it could inhibit the virus, would I personally take it if I got infected. 100%.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

So the governor shut down gyms in Florida.

Has anyone analyzed a schedule of closings in other countries? I'm trying to take a stab at will will close next.

 

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[Ernman]

Ron Paul is a retired doctor and retired Congressman in the United States. He is against big government, and his views spawned the Tea Party movement. His son, Rand Paul, is also a Congressman. Ron Paul is generally considered super-honest about everything. Hearing him say its mostly a hoax is like hearing your favorite uncle turned out to be a serial killer.

or a pedophile

 

[Ernman]

in doing research for an upcoming episode of my podcast I came upon information that makes it seem hopeful that chloroquine may be effective against coronavirus.

My Podcast Notes:


Ive been curious why chloroquine may work, if it does at all. But we would expect there to be some reasonable mechanism of action how it could disrupt the life cycle of the virus.

This lifecycle can be simplified to be Attachment of the virus particle to the ACE2 receptor, uptake of the RNA of the virus into the cell, production of new virus RNA and shell, packaging of the RNA into the virus she’ll, release of the virus from the cell. For a medication to work against the virus there has to be a significant disruption of one of these steps.

Here is a plausible reason how chloroquine and hydroxycloroquine could accomplish this.

Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore

Chloroquine is an established antimalarial agent that has been recently tested in clinical trials for its anticancer activity. The favorable effect of chloroquine appears to be due to its ability to sensitize cancerous cells to chemotherapy, radiation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

it appears that chloroquine has been shown in the lab to disrupt normal function of your cells lysosomes. From this paper it appears to facilitate uptake if zinc into the lysosomes, which somehow disrupts their normal functioning. Lysosomes are an important structure in getting things from the outside to inside of the cell among other things

Lysosomal Proteases Are a Determinant of Coronavirus Tropism - PubMed

Cell entry by coronaviruses involves two principal steps, receptor binding and membrane fusion; the latter requires activation by host proteases, particularly lysosomal proteases. Despite the importance of lysosomal proteases in both coronavirus entry and cell metabolism, the correlation between...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It appears the coronavirus Requires the lysosome to gain entry into the cell.

based on these two facts it seems plausible that the chloroquine class drugs could indeed interfere with the virus function getting into your cells, and so in theory it could be effective in stopping the virus being able to infect more cells. The question is if these drugs cause a meaningful disruption of the lysosomal system as it relates to virus uptake.

based on this, it’s hopeful, but does need to be proven that chloroquine can stop coronavirus infection, at least enough for your body to get the upper hand. Studies must be done to prove this.

one other thing I want to point out. Taking chloroquine is not considered compassionate use treatment. That is when we use a drug that has not had the safety demonstrated in extensive testing. Basically the person taking it is a lab rat we are doing research on. Usually we only do this in people we believe are going to die 100% short of a miracle.

This is what we would call off label use. Chloroquine drugs have been extensively studied already for their use in treating malaria and also some forms of arthritis. So we know the general safety profile. There are lots of drugs that are used off label.

A good example is Botox, it was created to treat people with nerve and other injuries that had muscle spasms. People realized its paralytic effect on muscle could be used to relax face muscles and reduce wrinkles. Doctors were injectingBotox for many years before an actual approval by the FDA for wrinkles was given. But, the safety part had already been demonstrated for treating muscle spasm. The studies for wrinkles were to prove effectiveness, safety was already known.

Since the chloroquine drugs have been tested and we know the safety and side effects in general, and there is a plausible mechanism how it could inhibit the virus, would I personally take it if I got infected. 100%.

I read a news article saying Chloroquine can kill at 2 grams. I'm assuming this is well known among the medical community and wouldn't be prescribed above that dose. But the article made it sound like people can drug without a prescription. I had a hard time understanding the intent of the article.