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Making an app

SethLBender

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I am wanting to make an app and i was told i could outsource it to someone on upwork.

What should i be okay with spending for the costs of app?

Also what can i focus on learning for myself since I'm not the one coding?
 
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GoGetter24

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1. 99% of apps make no money
2. the price would depend on how complicated the project is, and which barely competent Indian guy you hire by choosing someone based on the cheapest price; as will the time & hassle it will take
 

SethLBender

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1. 99% of apps make no money
2. the price would depend on how complicated the project is, and which barely competent Indian guy you hire by choosing someone based on the cheapest price; as will the time & hassle it will take[/QUOTE

I thought MJ DeMarco was teaching us to be the 1%

thanks for the heads up.
 
D

DeletedUser0287

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I am wanting to make an app and i was told i could outsource it to someone on upwork.

What should i be okay with spending for the costs of app?

Also what can i focus on learning for myself since I'm not the one coding?

I am not a programmer, but all the programmer does it build the app.

So that means you gotta build a wireframe flow chart what each page will look like with graphic design and image assets. Just do that first and mock up and test the idea. You don't even need a coder at this point. Use adobe illustrator or Affinity Designer and build the mock up.

Squeeze page with mock up and test with ads.
 
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SethLBender

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Yes it may not be the most likely to succeed but the amount of people you can impact and who would value it still exists.

The last sentence in book says it’s a possible route to take.

What business are you referring to 1 in 10 or 1 In 3 payoff?
 

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SEBASTlAN

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SparksCW

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Apps are a great fastlane business, there are thousands of apps out there, a lot doing the same thing, a lot fail, some succeed. Same for any business though so don't let anyone put you off.

I think the problem is a lot of developers know how to code, so they make apps that they think people need and want for industries they aren't involved in.

Whereas the best apps are made by people, or fully involving people who HAVE the need and want but DON'T know how to code.

However, because those people generally aren't coders the barrier to entry is a LOT higher as they need to outsource and take a lot more risk as they'll need to invest financially by paying developers etc.

I'm in the final stages of creating an app which should be released at the beginning of October, I don't know how to code so it's cost me $xx,xxx however I do know that I need the software for my existing business (need), I am betting on a certain route to market being available (execution) and I have made the software work for what my industry needs, whereas most of the competition I've tried so far have completely missed the mark because they've made it for what they THINK the industry wants. There is no guarantee it'll sell, but I feel more comfortable about it than making a random app I think someone wants.

If you have an app idea that fits a need, will solve the problem, and people want it then you should execute on it.
 

SethLBender

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@SparksCW thanks for the insight and that’s great your app is about to launch!

My idea isn’t an app that’s a game or anything anyone else is already doing so it has potential.

I wonder if there would be a way to do crowdfunding for an app...
 
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GoGetter24

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people you can impact and who would value it still exists.
It's not impact or "would value" that matters. It's if they'll open their wallets, and how much money they're going to give you.

What business are you referring to 1 in 10 or 1 In 3 payoff?
1 in 10 is the general ballpark probability for long term business success. 1 in 3 might be the probability for an experienced businessman executing a new project in a space he's familiar with.


Well anyway, you seem to have your heart set on making an app, so have fun. But when nothing comes from it, please don't interpret that result as "business doesn't work". For the next project, keep an eye to what people actually open their wallets for, and payoff probabilities. Learn as much as you can from this project, because knowledge and re-evaluation increases the chance of the next one being a winner.
 

TreyAllDay

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I can tell you two things -

Good News:
First, apps and software have huge benefits compared to other business models including a lower barrier to entry and fast scale. Everyone will try to tell you that it's a convoluted market, but it completely depends on what your product is and how to roll it out. There's a way to fastlane in the software business.

Bad News:
If you are trying to do it on a budget and you don't have a technical advisor - having applications built by contractors, especially ones from India (which is what upwork mostly is), can be a huge mistake. I'm watching a buddy go through it now for a highly technical app and it's just a huge nightmare. These contractors don't understand what you want, and to explain it to them without knowing a bit about the technical side is a nightmare. I also think once the app is built, you NEED to have the budget or the people to manage it because nothing is perfect on it's first iteration. I think in order to take advantage of the benefits of software businesses at a low budget, you need to be a coder yourself and be able to bootstrap it. It's not THAT hard to learn.
 
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BrooklynHustle

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I am wanting to make an app and i was told i could outsource it to someone on upwork.

What should i be okay with spending for the costs of app?

Also what can i focus on learning for myself since I'm not the one coding?
Hey Seth, the acceptable cost of every app is going to be different depending on the level of complexity. I would aim to keep things as simple and inexpensive as possible initially... really limit your scope to solving the number 1 problem of your target user/customer.

In terms of learning, you may find my new thread/book on app entrepreneurship helpful:

Book - DOWNLOAD FREE: The 7 Steps to App Success

Best of luck!
 

Ninjakid

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$10K+ Any figure less than that, the person coding doesn't know what they're doing.

Or you can grind it out and earn to code yourself.

You might spend all that money or time coding, and your app might tank.

This is why not everyone gets into apps.
 
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eTox

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I would not recommend going into the app business unless you want to stick with this industry for a very very long time. It would take a lot of time and a lot more effort just to be able to create anything worthwhile. It would take even more time to learn how to properly market. And at the end, all of the above will result in years of struggle and not even tens of thousands but closer to a hundred thousand dollars of debt. After that, there is absolutely no guarantee that you will make it.

Also, being able to create something that solves a real problem and stand out will absolutely require you hiring and outsourcing. You can never learn all things, and projects that are worthy of doing and those that have real potential look simple on the outside but require immense effort and skill on the inside.
 

SethLBender

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I understand that apps are not easy and many have tried and failed.

I’m looking to practice executing something people will use or buy such as an internet type business.

Maybe someone can throw out an example of internet business someone on here has done in the last year or so with minimal experience and funding....

(No amazon selling or anything like that)
 

George Appiah

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I can tell you two things -

Good News:
First, apps and software have huge benefits compared to other business models including a lower barrier to entry and fast scale. Everyone will try to tell you that it's a convoluted market, but it completely depends on what your product is and how to roll it out. There's a way to fastlane in the software business.

Bad News:
If you are trying to do it on a budget and you don't have a technical advisor - having applications built by contractors, especially ones from India (which is what upwork mostly is), can be a huge mistake. I'm watching a buddy go through it now for a highly technical app and it's just a huge nightmare. These contractors don't understand what you want, and to explain it to them without knowing a bit about the technical side is a nightmare. I also think once the app is built, you NEED to have the budget or the people to manage it because nothing is perfect on it's first iteration. I think in order to take advantage of the benefits of software businesses at a low budget, you need to be a coder yourself and be able to bootstrap it. It's not THAT hard to learn.

This.

If you have to ask questions like how much does it cost and what should you be learning, it means you don't have a clue about this industry at all and haven't done your basic homework.

I understand that apps are not easy and many have tried and failed.

I’m looking to practice executing something people will use or buy such as an internet type business.

I don't think people are saying you should necessarily pursue easy business ideas.

Perhaps if you had elaborated on your app idea a little bit, what industry or specific problems you're trying to solve with your app, and what steps you've taken already, you might have been perceived differently.

But your question came off as a complete newbie who just wants to make an "app" because you've read someone made millions from an app -- without even knowing what app you want to make (because asking strangers how much you should be paying has an obvious answer: it depends.)

Maybe someone can throw out an example of internet business someone on here has done in the last year or so with minimal experience and funding....

(No amazon selling or anything like that)

Maybe you should read UNSCRIPTED one more time.

You want to focus on what problem out there you're uniquely possitioned to solve, instead of asking complete strangers for business ideas you should go into.

Godspeed in your Fastlane adventure!
 
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LittleWolfie

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Maybe someone can throw out an example of internet business someone on here has done in the last year or so with minimal experience and funding....

Is 40k over four years minimal? This thread might help. The guy used credit cards and loans from dad as well as living in a van to keep expenses down.

EXECUTION - Built 100k business in 5 months. Now stuck.

Also do you actually need an app or do you want an internet protocol because they are not the same thing and have different prices.
 

SethLBender

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Yeah I’m probably going to read unscripted another time as I read TMF and unscripted back to back basically.

I am a newbie no shame in that I’m not here to pretend. I have done wire frame for the idea.

I’m not by any means asking for business ideas lol I was just asking for an example.

Just like MJ mentions in his book just because he learned how to code that might not be right for everyone to learn to do.

I know I’ll have to work although learning to code may not be wise for me.... my strengths will likely be better and more efficient in other areas.
 

LittleWolfie

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Just like MJ mentions in his book just because he learned how to code that might not be right for everyone to learn to do.

I know I’ll have to work although learning to code may not be wise for me.... my strengths will likely be better and more efficient in other areas.

I agree, if your fantastic at making sales, and terrible at coding then paying someone instead can be worthwhile(although I think you should learn the basics at least)
 
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George Appiah

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I know I’ll have to work although learning to code may not be wise for me.... my strengths will likely be better and more efficient in other areas.

I agree, if your fantastic at making sales, and terrible at coding then paying someone instead can be worthwhile(although I think you should learn the basics at least)

I understand and agree with what both of you are saying.

But even then, I'd spend a little time to learn a thing or two about the entire app ecosystem, including the technical stack. This should help me to:
  1. Know how to differentiate good developers from the whacky ones
  2. Know how to communicate better with my developers
  3. Get value for money (or avoid getting scammed by unscrupulous developers)
  4. Be able to ask good, insightful questions likely to get quality answers from experts
About two months ago, I responded to a call for help on the official WordPress job board. This person had "many problems" with his newly delivered website, but the developer insisted the problem could not be solved. When I went in, I discovered the entire site... built in 2018... was built with flash. No, I don't mean there was a flash banner. I mean the entire damn thing was a flash animation. Go figure!

Sometimes when I'm communicating with local small business owners, I feel like this poor fellow:

 
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LittleWolfie

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But even then, I'd spend a little time to learn a thing or two about the entire app ecosystem, including the technical stack. This should help me to:
  1. Know how to differentiate good developers from the whacky ones
  2. Know how to communicate better with my developers
  3. Get value for money (or avoid getting scammed by unscrupulous developers)
  4. Be able to ask good, insightful questions likely to get quality answers from experts
About two months ago, I responded to a call for help on the official WordPress job board. This person had "many problems" with his newly delivered website, but the developer insisted the problem could not be solved. When I went in, I discovered the entire site... built in 2018... was built with flash. Go figure!

Sometimes when I'm communicating with local small business owners, I feel like this poor fellow:

[\QUOTE]
Hah 7 perpendicular red lines some of which are green and others transparent is a perfect imitation of some specs given to developers.

Now how did you solve the problem?

How did you know this wasn't a red lines with green ink request?

Sure maybe flash was all they could use (happens when non coding designers try to build websites with wysiwyg editors. ) of course they usally leave a fingerprint on the source code,so you could quickly identify them by looking at the source code if you know what your looking at. Maybe the user requirements were to only use adobe software?

You may want to try out just inspecting source on a few websites,gets you a feel for the programmers style.

You may want to look more at system analyst material since it gives you a better overview as it is focusing on the system as a whole it will help you with all.those points. I'd also suggest writing a program in scratch,since it's built to be easy to learn. Then you will be able.to talk well with developers.

Of course if you have a technical friend you can trust who has enough work you can get them to check for you.

As for communicating better, be as literal and specific as you can. Say what you mean and mean what you say this is especially important in a cross.cultural context and in programming. Do you really want perpendicular lines or do.you want parralel ones?
 

SethLBender

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I have a technical person I trust who can help me with some of the work.

I strongly agree with communication being as specific as possible.

Again I know apps are maybe in some people’s minds outdated or maybe a website first could be another path to take.

I just don’t want to be the person that bounces from one idea to the next without really getting much traction on anything yet I want to be efficient with time.
 
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LittleWolfie

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Again I know apps are maybe in some people’s minds outdated or maybe a website first could be another path to take.
.
websites are apps. They work on layer 7 of the OSI model on the server side. I suspect what you really mean is "things that are in the app store" which isn't the same as native. It is the whole

I doubt you were really talking about protocols for the SCISI interface to an underlying fibre channel, or character encoding or working directly with the tcp/up protocol or some kind of embedded system.

This is the seven perpendicular lines again, I suspect you meant that you want software which is
interacting directly with the application which is responsible for displaying images and data to the user as a human-recognizable format in order to allow the user to interface with the layer below it.

Ask your friend to explain what an application actually means, and to show you something which is an application which is neither client side nor server side.
 

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