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The short is that I'm out about $10k through outsourcing. I hope that sharing my mistakes will help others avoid similar roadblocks and allow me to reflect as I try to get my ideas made once again.
I've honestly struggled with typing this message a few times since it always ended up being too long for a first post. No reason to hit you all with a wall of text if it doesn't help you. It's a better idea to craft responses based on interest anyway.
I've run the gamut in terms of developers: domestic and offshore, individuals and firms. My tally of failed attempts stands at 3 at the moment, and each time I've lost consecutively more money.
I am trying to get a very simple site built. It uses a single aggregator API and is essentially a price comparison affiliate site. There are a ton of competitors out there, but it complements other ideas I have and it's basic enough that it should be a good starter job for both me and a developer.
However, that hasn't been the case. Incoming is a lot of "I" statements, but I'm not doing it as a "woe is me" sort of thing. I know I've screwed up and just want to show that you can and more than likely will screw up even if you're doing your homework. To wit:
- I've researched how to outsource successfully in detail. Articles, podcasts, videos, and more.
- I've crafted job listings in a variety of ways and attempted searching and inviting people.
- I've prepared specs, mockups, and even videos explaining my job.
- I've found codebases we can utilize.
- I've offered hourly jobs at high rates and decent budgets.
- I've interviewed via Skype, email, and phone.
In other words, I feel that I've done what I can to make this project a success with the exception of coding it myself. Of course, I know that's not 100% true and I have made mistakes along the way that have contributed to the site's current state, or lack thereof.
The last two developers I worked with were $40 and $50 an hour and from Eastern Europe. The 1st had more than 5k completed hours on oDesk. The 2nd had excellent communication at the start, but it became evident as time went on that he was a "black hole" developer who would suck time and money forever. The one before these two was a domestic firm/team that was just a nightmare overall.
Anyway, here are some of my main takeaways at the moment:
- When you put a budget down, that is where negotiation will start. $1k-$5k is essentially putting down $5k+.
- No payments outside of an escrow system like eLance. If you offer to pay the platform fees in full and and they won't work on the site, say adios to them.
- NEVER use anything but an American Express credit card if there is even the slightest chance you may want your money back. Tie this with a PayPal transaction for a 2nd level of protection if you can. MC and Visa are absolute crap for protection.
- Don't make a decision when you only have one provider you like. You need at least 2-3 you are absolutely in LOVE with. It's a cliche, but go with your gut.
- Development discounts are suspicious.
- Don't sign anything, especially with a US based firm.
- For the love of god, NEVER go hourly. It's a lot harder to chargeback 10 hours or so a week for 10 weeks than it is a lump sum payment. Additionally, assume the people at your credit card company are idiots. After almost a year I had a chargeback reversed with no explanation.
- Don't sit around on any job for more than 2 weeks. 80 hours or less should be enough time to have something basic and actionable.
- Fire quickly. Leave NO feedback on small jobs if you're going to work with them on something else. Your only bargaining chips are money and feedback.
- Most agencies/firms suck domestic or abroad. There are too many places for your needs to get screwed up between sales and the developer.
- Hourly rate means nothing.
Dane Maxwell recently had an AMA on here. On post #29, he had a list of 15 things that are deal breakers with developers. It really resonated with me since it defined what I had been looking for in a developer so clearly.
My overall experience is that, on average, developers like to badmouth a lot of sensible things: code commenting, paper prototyping, in other words, anything that results in them coding less.
I look online and I see all these places that have cheap development resources and assets. AppSumo, ThemeForest, WrapBootstrap, etc. I've come to the conclusion that my dream developer will be someone who can take these resources and a week or two and build a basic, usable version of this site.
Until I find someone who can do that, my wallet is closed, and I would advise anyone looking to do a MVP to seriously consider doing the same until you can find a single developer or at most a very small team that already has licenses to several of the above mentioned resources and understands that custom doesn't necessarily mean better.
Any critiques, feedback, comments, or questions, feel free to post.
I've honestly struggled with typing this message a few times since it always ended up being too long for a first post. No reason to hit you all with a wall of text if it doesn't help you. It's a better idea to craft responses based on interest anyway.
I've run the gamut in terms of developers: domestic and offshore, individuals and firms. My tally of failed attempts stands at 3 at the moment, and each time I've lost consecutively more money.
I am trying to get a very simple site built. It uses a single aggregator API and is essentially a price comparison affiliate site. There are a ton of competitors out there, but it complements other ideas I have and it's basic enough that it should be a good starter job for both me and a developer.
However, that hasn't been the case. Incoming is a lot of "I" statements, but I'm not doing it as a "woe is me" sort of thing. I know I've screwed up and just want to show that you can and more than likely will screw up even if you're doing your homework. To wit:
- I've researched how to outsource successfully in detail. Articles, podcasts, videos, and more.
- I've crafted job listings in a variety of ways and attempted searching and inviting people.
- I've prepared specs, mockups, and even videos explaining my job.
- I've found codebases we can utilize.
- I've offered hourly jobs at high rates and decent budgets.
- I've interviewed via Skype, email, and phone.
In other words, I feel that I've done what I can to make this project a success with the exception of coding it myself. Of course, I know that's not 100% true and I have made mistakes along the way that have contributed to the site's current state, or lack thereof.
The last two developers I worked with were $40 and $50 an hour and from Eastern Europe. The 1st had more than 5k completed hours on oDesk. The 2nd had excellent communication at the start, but it became evident as time went on that he was a "black hole" developer who would suck time and money forever. The one before these two was a domestic firm/team that was just a nightmare overall.
Anyway, here are some of my main takeaways at the moment:
- When you put a budget down, that is where negotiation will start. $1k-$5k is essentially putting down $5k+.
- No payments outside of an escrow system like eLance. If you offer to pay the platform fees in full and and they won't work on the site, say adios to them.
- NEVER use anything but an American Express credit card if there is even the slightest chance you may want your money back. Tie this with a PayPal transaction for a 2nd level of protection if you can. MC and Visa are absolute crap for protection.
- Don't make a decision when you only have one provider you like. You need at least 2-3 you are absolutely in LOVE with. It's a cliche, but go with your gut.
- Development discounts are suspicious.
- Don't sign anything, especially with a US based firm.
- For the love of god, NEVER go hourly. It's a lot harder to chargeback 10 hours or so a week for 10 weeks than it is a lump sum payment. Additionally, assume the people at your credit card company are idiots. After almost a year I had a chargeback reversed with no explanation.
- Don't sit around on any job for more than 2 weeks. 80 hours or less should be enough time to have something basic and actionable.
- Fire quickly. Leave NO feedback on small jobs if you're going to work with them on something else. Your only bargaining chips are money and feedback.
- Most agencies/firms suck domestic or abroad. There are too many places for your needs to get screwed up between sales and the developer.
- Hourly rate means nothing.
Dane Maxwell recently had an AMA on here. On post #29, he had a list of 15 things that are deal breakers with developers. It really resonated with me since it defined what I had been looking for in a developer so clearly.
My overall experience is that, on average, developers like to badmouth a lot of sensible things: code commenting, paper prototyping, in other words, anything that results in them coding less.
I look online and I see all these places that have cheap development resources and assets. AppSumo, ThemeForest, WrapBootstrap, etc. I've come to the conclusion that my dream developer will be someone who can take these resources and a week or two and build a basic, usable version of this site.
Until I find someone who can do that, my wallet is closed, and I would advise anyone looking to do a MVP to seriously consider doing the same until you can find a single developer or at most a very small team that already has licenses to several of the above mentioned resources and understands that custom doesn't necessarily mean better.
Any critiques, feedback, comments, or questions, feel free to post.
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