HOT! How does this make sense?

[hedgehog757]

I saw on the news that President Obama wants to encourage people to go to college and make it easier on them to obtain student loans. But if they can't get a job and pay off their student loans after college, if they have not paid it off in 20 years, it is automatically wiped out and the taxpayers pay it off for them.

How does this teach young people anything?!?!!?

Did I hear that right? Or was I in the Twilight Zone?

Why doesn't everyone take out a loan and then not pay it off for 20 years so someone else can take care of it for them?
This makes NO SENSE!!!!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[BeingChewsie]

I saw on the news that President Obama wants to encourage people to go to college and make it easier on them to obtain student loans. But if they can't get a job and pay off their student loans after college, if they have not paid it off in 20 years, it is automatically wiped out and the taxpayers pay it off for them.

How does this teach young people anything?!?!!?

Did I hear that right? Or was I in the Twilight Zone?

Why doesn't everyone take out a loan and then not pay it off for 20 years so someone else can take care of it for them?
This makes NO SENSE!!!!

It is 25 years right now. All they have done is cut is back to 20 years. It is political move, 20 or 25, doesn't matter. It is only 10 years if you work in public service. You can go on the income based plan and if you are deemed very low to no income literally pay nothing for 25 years right now, but you may owe a big fat tax bill at the end, in most cases the forgiveness sets up a taxable event(unless it is forgiven through public service).

Sue

 

[PatrickP]

How does it make sense?

He needs the young person vote and will tell them anything in order to get their vote.

 

[Likwid24]

What comes after a Trillion? Cause we'll be there real soon!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Yussef]

I saw on the news that President Obama wants to encourage people to go to college and make it easier on them to obtain student loans. But if they can't get a job and pay off their student loans after college, if they have not paid it off in 20 years, it is automatically wiped out and the taxpayers pay it off for them.

How does this teach young people anything?!?!!?

Did I hear that right? Or was I in the Twilight Zone?

Why doesn't everyone take out a loan and then not pay it off for 20 years so someone else can take care of it for them?
This makes NO SENSE!!!!

I will take a stab at this and most of this is just my opinion. I think those that are informed will agree that as a nation we are falling behind in the field of math and science. What that means for our great country in the next 5 , 10, 20 years only time will tell. But with technology growing exponentially, and the economy becoming more globalized, if we don't do something to prepare our next generation of leaders and thinkers we may face a future where America loses it seat at the table.The value of education is being measured by earning potential and that's causing many kids to shy away from certain fields of study. With tuition rates rising and college getting more expensive why would one go to school to be a school teacher (which they may really want to do) when they could become a nurse and make more money to pay off these loans and have decent money left to live on? So to keep degrees in low paying fields relevant you have to offer incentives to balance things out. For example how much of a life can a teacher have after he/she goes to school for 4 to 6 years and comes out to a mountain of student loan debt making 30 to 35k per year? Why would anyone want to do that even if they had a passion for teaching? But someone has to do it because we need teachers and you can't just say hey lets start this program and make it only applicable to teachers because of the political firestorm that it would start....you have to make it for everyone because if you don't those that we need to help keep us great for small salaries will disappear.

 

[Rickson9]

Simple. He needs the votes from that demongraphic. Who cares who foots the bill in 20 years? He won't be in office either way.

 

[hedgehog757]

I will take a stab at this and most of this is just my opinion. I think those that are informed will agree that as a nation we are falling behind in the field of math and science. What that means for our great country in the next 5 , 10, 20 years only time will tell. But with technology growing exponentially, and the economy becoming more globalized, if we don't do something to prepare our next generation of leaders and thinkers we may face a future where America loses it seat at the table.The value of education is being measured by earning potential and that's causing many kids to shy away from certain fields of study. With tuition rates rising and college getting more expensive why would one go to school to be a school teacher (which they may really want to do) when they could become a nurse and make more money to pay off these loans and have decent money left to live on? So to keep degrees in low paying fields relevant you have to offer incentives to balance things out. For example how much of a life can a teacher have after he/she goes to school for 4 to 6 years and comes out to a mountain of student loan debt making 30 to 35k per year? Why would anyone want to do that even if they had a passion for teaching? But someone has to do it because we need teachers and you can't just say hey lets start this program and make it only applicable to teachers because of the political firestorm that it would start....you have to make it for everyone because if you don't those that we need to help keep us great for small salaries will disappear.

The voting thing I get. The rest of it I don't. I do agree we are way behind in math and science as it is hard. Those subject are not the easy ones so a lot of people who that stuff does not come easy to don't even want to try it. I guess it is like someone trying to develop a website and just saying "I can't learn code", then they just move on to something else.

Funny, but I went to college and I knew NOTHING about not paying off my student loans after 20 or 25 years. I actually PAID if off!!!
I must be nuts! :coco:

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[leono]

I think those that are informed will agree that as a nation we are falling behind in the field of math and science. What that means for our great country in the next 5 , 10, 20 years only time will tell. But with technology growing exponentially, and the economy becoming more globalized, if we don't do something to prepare our next generation of leaders and thinkers we may face a future where America loses it seat at the table.

I honestly think this approach is one of the problems. It just reeks of "keeping up with the joneses." All of this testing we have doesn't seem to be having the desired effect, in fact it might just be producing the oppposite! Instead of trying to "keep up" with the rest of the world, I think it would be best to acknowledge where we currently are, and realistically work to get better by our own metrics, and not some metric based on say China or India.

 

[Runum]

I will take a stab at this and most of this is just my opinion. I think those that are informed will agree that as a nation we are falling behind in the field of math and science. What that means for our great country in the next 5 , 10, 20 years only time will tell. But with technology growing exponentially, and the economy becoming more globalized, if we don't do something to prepare our next generation of leaders and thinkers we may face a future where America loses it seat at the table.The value of education is being measured by earning potential and that's causing many kids to shy away from certain fields of study. With tuition rates rising and college getting more expensive why would one go to school to be a school teacher (which they may really want to do) when they could become a nurse and make more money to pay off these loans and have decent money left to live on? So to keep degrees in low paying fields relevant you have to offer incentives to balance things out. For example how much of a life can a teacher have after he/she goes to school for 4 to 6 years and comes out to a mountain of student loan debt making 30 to 35k per year? Why would anyone want to do that even if they had a passion for teaching? But someone has to do it because we need teachers and you can't just say hey lets start this program and make it only applicable to teachers because of the political firestorm that it would start....you have to make it for everyone because if you don't those that we need to help keep us great for small salaries will disappear.

nevermind, you don't want to listen anyway

 

[Pinnacle]

What comes after a Trillion? Cause we'll be there real soon!

A zillion.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PatrickP]

Why are we behind so much of the rest of the developed countries in schooling our children?

Why did we dominate before but not now?

It is a negative effect of getting closer to equality in the work place.

Back when the TV was black and white our smartest women who went to college became teachers. Those woman now run huge corporations, own their own businesses etc.

Teaching pays a much lower salary then jobs such as CEO, Managing director etc. So those who go to Ivy League colleges and those who get better grades no longer become teachers.

You are not going to get a phi beta kappa teaching your child how to finger paint or Algebra. BUT back 40 years ago you would.



For this reason it will not change much until other developed countries become more equal in the work place. At which time we will move up on the list.

Our children will not be smarter it is just that we will be more competitive with other countries.

Why? Because more of their smartest woman will stop teaching as opportunities to make MUCH better money become more available.

So the coparative intelligence levels of other developing countries children will slip the same way ours have since the 1960s or so.

 

[Yussef]

I honestly think this approach is one of the problems. It just reeks of "keeping up with the joneses." All of this testing we have doesn't seem to be having the desired effect, in fact it might just be producing the oppposite! Instead of trying to "keep up" with the rest of the world, I think it would be best to acknowledge where we currently are, and realistically work to get better by our own metrics, and not some metric based on say China or India.

Dude I respect how you feel but not everyone wants to be a business owner or can be for that matter. To really appreciate the magnitude of where we are headed as a nation you have to be objective. What if I have plans to raise a family and buy a home in a safe neighborhood when I graduate from college and I just happen to be thinking of going to school for early childhood education? What do I have to sacrifice? My dream of providing a decent life for my family or not teaching your child math, science or English? With the second choice everyone loses, the person with the passion to teach and the school that just lost another potential role model and life changer leading to more classroom overcrowding and a poorer quality of education and that's just teachers. What about librarians, guidance counselors, police officers, social workers and many many others? If they all had to make a decision to go into a field that paid them enough to live like you and pay back their loans none of these fields would be an option.

 

[Yussef]

Why are we behind so much of the rest of the developed countries in schooling our children?

Why did we dominate before but not now?

It is a negative effect of getting closer to equality in the work place.


Back when the TV was black and white our smartest women who went to college became teachers. Those woman now run huge corporations, own their own businesses etc.

Teaching pays a much lower salary then jobs such as CEO, Managing director etc. So those who go to Ivy League colleges and those who get better grades no longer become teachers.

You are not going to get a phi beta kappa teaching your child how to finger paint or Algebra. BUT back 40 years ago you would.



For this reason it will not change much until other developed countries become more equal in the work place. At which time we will move up on the list.

Our children will not be smarter it is just that we will be more competitive with other countries.

Why? Because more of their smartest woman will stop teaching as opportunities to make MUCH better money become more available.

So the coparative intelligence levels of other developing countries children will slip the same way ours have since the 1960s or so.

Patrick you know your my main apple scrapple but I have to disagree on this one. We should NEVER keep ourselves in a disadvantaged position in hopes that our competition regresses so that we become equal. I say if your ahead stay ahead. Evolve. Don't think that what worked yesterday will continue to keep you ahead of the pack. Be innovative hell isn't that how many of you became rich in the first place? You create something new and bold or you take something and make it better. You don't sit back and hope your competition's product has a recall so that people will run to your product. No you set out to set the standard or make a product that you believe is at least equal to your competitions. The quality of teachers have diminished because we value them a lot less plain and simple. When I was growing up it was prestigious to be a teacher. They lived in nice homes. In nice neighborhoods. Now they are forced to make some tough decisions on lifestyle, while a lot of college professors easily make 6 figures. Well who has to prepare the kids 12 years before they get to college? All I am saying is we must return the value to teaching to get teachers of value.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PatrickP]

Not sure where you got the idea I said to keep ourselves in a disadvantages position.

Maybe I didn't word it very well.

I was just stating what I believe are facts based upon history and how it will be repeated as other countries give woman more and better opportunities in the work environment.

 

[PatrickP]

Just an add on.

Who is going to take a job paying 30K to be a teacher? A man/woman out of Columbia with a 4.0 or are they going to take a job making 60K with a potential to become a CEO.

I worked in a school district I know who are taking those jobs. My sister is a teach, my other sister is a principal and my niece is a teacher.

They all say the same thing. For the most part NO way will the current pay for teachers attract people who could qualify for a corporate job making top money.

It is a fact. That is why people with money often send their children to private school where the teachers are making double so they can get the most intelligent people with a teaching degree.

 

[Yussef]

I may have misunderstood you but it sounded like you were saying that once developing countries start losing their teachers to higher paying jobs in their workplace, their educational systems will begin to suffer the same plight, moving us back up on the list by default. Is that what you were saying?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Yussef]

Just an add on.

Who is going to take a job paying 30K to be a teacher? A man/woman out of Columbia with a 4.0 or are they going to take a job making 60K with a potential to become a CEO.

I worked in a school district I know who are taking those jobs. My sister is a teach, my other sister is a principal and my niece is a teacher.

They all say the same thing. For the most part NO way will the current pay for teachers attract people who could qualify for a corporate job making top money.

It is a fact. That is why people with money often send their children to private school where the teachers are making double so they can get the most intelligent people with a teaching degree.

So if we know that and here it over and over and over again what's the problem with saying let us try to balance things out a bit by forgiving some of your college debt because we know your not going to make enough to live a decent life and make these payments and we need teachers? That's all I was saying.

 

[PatrickP]

I may have misunderstood you but it sounded like you were saying that once developing countries start losing their teachers to higher paying jobs in their workplace, their educational systems will begin to suffer the same plight, moving us back up on the list by default. Is that what you were saying?

Yes that is what I meant to say

I wasn't saying we should take it sitting down.

I think we should TRY to move up the list now. But am not hopeful as there are no incentives to do so. Who is going to pay for it?

 

[PatrickP]

So if we know that and here it over and over and over again what's the problem with saying let us try to balance things out a bit by forgiving some of your college debt because we know your not going to make enough to live a decent life and make these payments and we need teachers? That's all I was saying.

Got ya buddy. Thanks

Honestly I do not know nearly enough about the whole student loan forgiveness to comment on it. It is a frustrating situation.

But I do have a few things that make me ask WHY??????

Why are kids who can't afford to pay to go to high priced colleges going to high priced colleges?

It has been shown that a student who goes to a community college then goes on to a good state college makes the same as a student who graduates at the same level.

Why aren't these kids taking more AP classes in high school when the cost is much less. I guess I am from the school that if you can't afford something then you don't buy it.

This goes for a car, a cel phone or a college education. My daughter-in-law is going to school part time and working full time. She will have NO loans. To me that is the way to do it.

Who started the idea that a college education is a right that you should have even if you don't have the money to pay for one.

It is probably the same group who thought zero down mort were a good idea.

This whole govt encouraging people to spend money they don't have it what has built a shaky economy and why the house of cards started falling 3 years ago. It is not done and this year it will get even worse.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[leono]

Dude I respect how you feel but not everyone wants to be a business owner or can be for that matter. To really appreciate the magnitude of where we are headed as a nation you have to be objective. What if I have plans to raise a family and buy a home in a safe neighborhood when I graduate from college and I just happen to be thinking of going to school for early childhood education? What do I have to sacrifice? My dream of providing a decent life for my family or not teaching your child math, science or English? With the second choice everyone loses, the person with the passion to teach and the school that just lost another potential role model and life changer leading to more classroom overcrowding and a poorer quality of education and that's just teachers. What about librarians, guidance counselors, police officers, social workers and many many others? If they all had to make a decision to go into a field that paid them enough to live like you and pay back their loans none of these fields would be an option.

Huh, I think you're misunderstanding what I tried (but obviously) failed to say. I'm saying we need to stop looking at China, and thinking, "OMG, they study for 10 hours a day?!! We NEED to do that tooo!!!!!!!!!!!" Seriously, "Johnny" can barely count correctly, and yet he's taking Calculus. My point was instead of putting "Johnny" in Calculus, let's acknowledge that "Johnny" can barely even do basic math, and work from there. I'd rather "Johnny" have a solid foundation in basic mathematics, than say, "Look we have this many kids taking Calculus."

 

[leono]

Why aren't these kids taking more AP classes in high school when the cost is much less. I guess I am from the school that if you can't afford something then you don't buy it.

In defense of some kids, in particular those who are less fortuntate, AP classes may not actually be available in their schools. I know when I was in high school, we only had a handful of AP classes. However, by the time I left, they were adding many more, so who knows maybe I'm wrong about this.

But everything else you said is on point, and I couldn't agree more.

 

[hedgehog757]

Huh, I think you're misunderstanding what I tried (but obviously) failed to say. I'm saying we need to stop looking at China, and thinking, "OMG, they study for 10 hours a day?!! We NEED to do that tooo!!!!!!!!!!!" Seriously, "Johnny" can barely count correctly, and yet he's taking Calculus. My point was instead of putting "Johnny" in Calculus, let's acknowledge that "Johnny" can barely even do basic math, and work from there. I'd rather "Johnny" have a solid foundation in basic mathematics, than say, "Look we have this many kids taking Calculus."

Here's the problem with that. You can't force Johnny to do math he can't handle. What is the point? It's not my strong subject either. But we, just like every other country NEED people who CAN do it. Not EVERYONE needs to do it but you can't even fly a plane without knowing math, so if little Johnny has the desire to become a pilot he going to have to learn math. If he can't handle it, he will have to choose another career. You are correct though in stating he needs a basic foundation first. You can't do calculus if you can't add 2 + 2.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[leono]

You can't force Johnny to do math he can't handle.

I've seen too many people fake their way through high school math to know that this isn't entirely true. I know alot of people who have memorized facts and equations to pass standardized tests, but don't actually understand the material or concepts.

 

[Yussef]

Huh, I think you're misunderstanding what I tried (but obviously) failed to say. I'm saying we need to stop looking at China, and thinking, "OMG, they study for 10 hours a day?!! We NEED to do that tooo!!!!!!!!!!!" Seriously, "Johnny" can barely count correctly, and yet he's taking Calculus. My point was instead of putting "Johnny" in Calculus, let's acknowledge that "Johnny" can barely even do basic math, and work from there. I'd rather "Johnny" have a solid foundation in basic mathematics, than say, "Look we have this many kids taking Calculus."

I certainly agree with that but I thought the thread was about the president making it easier to get student loans and forgiving debt.

 

[PatrickP]

In defense of some kids, in particular those who are less fortuntate, AP classes may not actually be available in their schools. I know when I was in high school, we only had a handful of AP classes. However, by the time I left, they were adding many more, so who knows maybe I'm wrong about this.

But everything else you said is on point, and I couldn't agree more.

Good point thanks!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[leono]

I certainly agree with that but I thought the thread was about the president making it easier to get student loans and forgiving debt.

It is. I just saw a side point that I wanted to expound upon!

 

[PatrickP]

I've seen too many people fake their way through high school math to know that this isn't entirely true. I know alot of people who have memorized facts and equations to pass standardized tests, but don't actually understand the material or concepts.

'


I do agree with this.

And even with this what is the high school graduation rate? Something like only 70% or maybe lower?

I have to say I agree more with Yussef's point. Maybe we need a shake up.

Really do any of us remember or have used even 10% of what we were taught in high school? Speaking for myself I do not.

The VERY best class I had was typing because I learned to touch type and can use it on the internet. But did I REALLY need to read shakspear??? Or how to diagram a sentence or what year Napolean ah ah ah crap I don't even know what Napolean did lol


Do you guys think it would every be possible to treat high school more like college? More along the lines Ok Billy is 16, he and his parents agree it would be best for him to go to school for 6 hours a day and learn auto mechanics.

For my son I believe he would have LOVE it and be much further ahead now. When he cuts his hand he literally bleeds 10-W-30 motor oil lol

Or billy and his parents think he should specialize in music so he goes to school 3 hours a day for music and 3 hours something else.

 

[Stayer]

read it somewhere - office work was created to keep the most of the population busy while the rest make things happen.

perhaps, the minds who created school system based it on the same idea? these kids have to do something, so why not make them learn history.

although, I have to admit I could spot the difference between people who had Higher Education and those who don't given the fact that the latter group haven't put any effort in self-development and read Shakespear on the own. Uni educated people are more interesting to talk to

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Likwid24]

"As a bit of background, the industrial titans of the 1890's began to think that not only could the production line be engineered, but people's lives could be engineered as well, in order to work like homogeneous robots with the machines. Rockefeller and Carnegie gave huge sums to prominent academics to see if this could be realized through the educational system. They found that to a considerable extent it could, and it is still being done today as evidenced in the Congressional Record during the Clinton administration. This is the story that John Gatto has to tell.-DB)"

"The secret of American schooling is that it doesn't teach the way children learn -- nor is it supposed to. Schools were conceived to serve the economy and the social order rather than kids and families -- that is why it is compulsory. As a consequence, the school can not help anybody grow up, because its prime directive is to retard maturity. It does that by teaching that everything is difficult, that other people run our lives, that our neighbors are untrustworthy even dangerous. School is the first impression children get of society. Because first impressions are often the decisive ones, school imprints kids with fear, suspicion of one another, and certain addictions for life. It ambushes natural intuition, faith, and love of adventure, wiping these out in favor of a gospel of rational procedure and rational management."

 

[hedgehog757]

'


I do agree with this.

And even with this what is the high school graduation rate? Something like only 70% or maybe lower?

I have to say I agree more with Yussef's point. Maybe we need a shake up.

Really do any of us remember or have used even 10% of what we were taught in high school? Speaking for myself I do not.

The VERY best class I had was typing because I learned to touch type and can use it on the internet. But did I REALLY need to read shakspear??? Or how to diagram a sentence or what year Napolean ah ah ah crap I don't even know what Napolean did lol


Do you guys think it would every be possible to treat high school more like college? More along the lines Ok Billy is 16, he and his parents agree it would be best for him to go to school for 6 hours a day and learn auto mechanics.

For my son I believe he would have LOVE it and be much further ahead now. When he cuts his hand he literally bleeds 10-W-30 motor oil lol

Or billy and his parents think he should specialize in music so he goes to school 3 hours a day for music and 3 hours something else.

Patrick, great point!
I went to a high school where all they did was make you read and prepare for college. I can't type...at least not quickly but I can usually spell alright. But I had always wished there more hands on learning classes. I learn much better at hands on by actually DOING things than reading about them. My friends that went to other high schools had hands on experience from woodwork, to auto mechanics to photography.

Half of them are in business fr themselves now. My cousin can't spell a damn thing correctly but if you give him an advanced calculus formula he will give you the right answer. He can also build a house or fix a computer. He just has a very technical brain.

I also don't think people fake their way through math. I understood it when I was taught it, even if I needed a extra help. But to understand it again now, I would need to be retaught.