Are low cost "tripwire" offers unethical?

[piesandak47]

I've read quite a few posts on this forum saying how "tripwire" offers (low priced offers that lead to a higher priced offer, e.g. a $7 ebook that leads to a $97 high end product) are unethical.

What are your views on it?

EDIT - Let's assume the tripwire offer actually provides a lot of value.

 

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[codo3500]

It depends - if your $7 eBook actually gives $7 worth of value and isn't just a pure upsell, then I see no problem at all.

 

[liquidglass]

I don't see why they would be. In a free market the price is determined by what a person will pay another for a product or service. So the two items are mutually exclusive.

$7 ebook (with value): ethical
$7 ebook (with no value): unethical
$7 ebook (with no value but a simple refund policy): ethically gray

$97 upsell would follow the same parameters. The upsell itself does not make the first product ethical or unethical, simple.

If you wanted to apply a blanket idea that a secondary offer renders the first unethical to other marketing techniques then almost everything is unethical.
Additional products that provide secondary value to the primary purchase are never unethical they are a choice presented and to be decided by the buyer.

Examples:
-Free Cell phone, $300 smart watch upsell, $30 otterbox case upsell, etc
-Seminar for $25, Seminar for $300 upsell, etc

Hope that helps!

 

[Digamma]

No, they are not.

What is this "value" argument?
If you provide a useless tripwire, less people are gonna buy the upsell. You would be a moron to do that, not unethical.

 

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[Vigilante]

I've read quite a few posts on this forum saying how "tripwire" offers (low priced offers that lead to a higher priced offer, e.g. a $7 ebook that leads to a $97 high end product) are unethical.

What are your views on it?

EDIT - Let's assume the tripwire offer actually provides a lot of value.

Can you please provide links to the "quite a few posts on this forum saying how "tripwire" offers (low priced offers that lead to a higher priced offer, e.g. a $7 ebook that leads to a $97 high end product) are unethical."

I'd like to see what posts/threads you are talking about before I comment.

Please post specific threads, and specific posts within those threads (and there must be several) that state that. Give me specific examples from specific posters, as you indicated there were several.

Please post the specific thread and comment links with quotations. If you don't/can't, I will assume your thread was a loaded question / troll. We generally don't entertain or feed intentionally argumentative threads here (as you know... you've been here since March.) But... if you can back up your assertion with links to specific posts, we'll entertain it. - Vigilante

 

[Phones]

I think the last time a tripwire might come somewhat as of unethical on this forum was with a book that is selling claiming "All profits go for feeding the less-fortunate" with a massive back-end of up-sells for own-profit.

Other than that, it doesn't even make sense to offer a worthless trip-wire, no one would go for the up-sell.

 

[LightHouse]

Can you please provide links to the "quite a few posts on this forum saying how "tripwire" offers (low priced offers that lead to a higher priced offer, e.g. a $7 ebook that leads to a $97 high end product) are unethical."

I'd like to see what posts/threads you are talking about before I comment.

Please post specific threads, and specific posts within those threads (and there must be several) that state that. Give me specific examples from specific posters, as you indicated there were several.

Please post the specific thread and comment links with quotations. If you don't/can't, I will assume your thread was a loaded question / troll. We generally don't entertain or feed intentionally argumentative threads here (as you know... you've been here since March.) But... if you can back up your assertion with links to specific posts, we'll entertain it. - Vigilante

Although I will let him answer for himself, there was a thread where KFS was getting burned up, Ref: Digital Marketer. Although the main point of offering trip wires themselves I do not think was the point, more so DM's business practices... it still could be taken as such.

Either way, this thread is bait. You can't care what everyone thinks of how you run your business, you'll never take flight.

 

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[wade1mil]

A trip wire offer is no different than any other offer. You're selling them something of value for money.
The key thing with a trip wire that could make is unethical is if the trip wire offer REQUIRES you to buy the core offer in order to be of value.
The trip wire offer should be valuable on its own. I think that's what you may be asking in a round about way.

 

[Get Right]

Is McDonald's $1.00 menu unethical? Nothing but a tripwire to get you to the sodas and fries.

 

[Kak]

This seems a little like money chasing to me...

Doing nothing, but making a converting offer for paid traffic is voiltile and it ignores brand building a bit. You want to have brand value not just a generic item you made convert for 3 weeks before you have to change your game plan again.

Do you want to have to force demand forever? I don't.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Are low cost "tripwire" offers unethical?

No.

On the flip side, any tool can be misused for monetary gain, especially when a shitty product is involved. A pillow is generally harmless... but it could be used to kill.

 

[LibertyForMe]

I heard someone somewhere say we ought to call it a "Welcome Mat" instead of a "Trip Wire". Welcome Mat is not a hostile word; and it reflects the ethical fact that your product should be happily welcoming someone to your brand - the first of many happy encounters.

I like it.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I heard someone somewhere say we ought to call it a "Welcome Mat" instead of a "Trip Wire".

Love it. When you have something of value it's definitely a "welcome mat" -- when you have a shitty product propped up by deceptive marketing, a "trip wire" would seem more appropriate.

 

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[Daniel A]

Here are some quick / relevant notes from something I've been reading...

• "The only way any transaction can take place is when both parties are making a profit." -- Bill Bonner

• Understand incentives. In every situation you simply have to ask: What's in it for the other guy?

• In every transaction you have to persuade someone. If you want to be successful in life, you do that -- not by trickery or force -- but by offering a fantastic deal.

TL;DR ... Make it a win-win situation. Offer true value.

 

[JAJT]

The tripwire is just a tool. Just like the loss leader, tiered offers, bundles, photography, etc...

If you use a tripwire to build a giant email list of interested parties that you then use to periodically email relevant and useful offers and information to, well that sounds pretty sweet for those on that list.

If you use a tripwire to build a giant email list to spam relentlessly, sell to third parties, and annoy the shit out of, well that's being a top-shelf dick.

 

[Daniel A]

Is McDonald's $1.00 menu unethical? Nothing but a tripwire to get you to the sodas and fries.

"Would you like fries with that?" = Up-selling ... lol

 

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[Andy Black]

I like to think of the first purchase as a test.

All we have at that stage is a sale and a buyer.

We want to convert that buyer into someone who makes a custom of buying from us... aka a customer.

Stands to reason they aren't going to do that if we didn't add value.

EDIT: I too think calling it a "trip wire" creates the wrong imagery. Dov Gordon calls it your "hand raising offer", which I much prefer.

 

[consty]

No. As everyone says, as long as it delivers value.

MJ's book in a way is a trip wire for an INSIDERS subscription.

 

[Vigilante]

No. As everyone says, as long as it delivers value.

MJ's book in a way is a trip wire for an INSIDERS subscription.

Wrong.

The fact that he wrote a book about his experience, and you liked the book so much that you came to the forum... then got enough value from the forum that you decided to get backstage access to it's most prolific posters... has absolutely zero to do with the concept of a tripwire to lure you in for more marketing/sales.

You have no idea what the INSIDERS forum even is/does.

 

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[tafy]

Tripwire is a way to build trust

If the tripwire gives massive value then a lot of trust is formed

Trust is needed to sell the (service/conference/other) that is way higher priced

Without trust it would be nearly impossible to sell the bigger product

 

[Formless]

The offer is not. The contents of the offer can be. Don't rob people.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

MJ's book in a way is a trip wire for an INSIDERS subscription.

From a observational standpoint without access to the history, yes. However in intention, no. The INSIDERS subscription didn't even exist when the book was released. The INSIDERS Subscription came to be from people requesting to view the forum without ads. Then it evolved into people wanting a place to post with more privacy. But yea, on the outside looking in, one could make that conclusion.

Wrong.

The fact that he wrote a book about his experience, and you liked the book so much that you came to the forum

And therein lies the difference. TMF was written to share my experience without thought to upsells or trip wires. I wasn't thinking about "Gee, how can I sell huge piles of subscriptions?? Oh yea, a Book!!"

 

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[csalvato]

Tripwire sounds so dirty. Call it a "Welcome Mat" or "Welcome Gate". That's what it is.

Millionaire Fastlane , imho, was a Welcome Gate product whether or not MJ intended it to be, or realized it. It welcomed me into his world, and I have gladly given him more money because of the trust he built.

Thanks for the Welcome Gate <3

 

[Andy Black]

Tripwire is a way to build trust

If the tripwire gives massive value then a lot of trust is formed

Trust is needed to sell the (service/conference/other) that is way higher priced

Without trust it would be nearly impossible to sell the bigger product

@tafy nailed it.

Millionaire Fastlane , imho, was a Welcome Gate product whether or not MJ intended it to be, or realized it. It welcomed me into his world, and I have gladly given him more money because of the trust he built.

I agree... that's the way it's working out, whether intended or not.

A small initial purchase lead to trust, that turned us into customers/fans/evangelists.

For me it was actually the other way round... I became a forum INSIDERS, loved it, then bought the book (twice so far).

 

[Get Right]

That's what good tripwires/welcome mats/fuzzy feel-goods do - they change the relationship between you and the customer.

 

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[Wuz]

if i gave you something today for free or at unbelievable cost today that would help you make your life easier.

Then 2 weeks after i would present you an offer a little more expensive but that would make your life 10x better.

Would you find this unethical?

 

[DennisD]

I've read quite a few posts on this forum saying how "tripwire" offers (low priced offers that lead to a higher priced offer, e.g. a $7 ebook that leads to a $97 high end product) are unethical.

Hahaha, Unethical.
That word doesn't mean anything anymore. People use it wrong too often.

In no world is using a tripwire product unethical.
The peeps who call it unethical don't understand the concept clearly enough.
Their misunderstanding leads to improper categorizations.

The people who call it unethical are ACTUALLY saying this:
"Using deception or roundabout tactice to trick customers into paying more money is unethical."
This is true, but it clearly demonstrated their lack of knowledge about what a "tripwire" actually is.

It's like saying bottled water is unethical or that looking at clouds is unethical.
Completely ludicrous and ridiculous, and wrong.

$7 ebook (with no value): unethical

I don't even see this as unethical... a $7 book with no value can be released by a crappy writer who thinks it's good.
Not unethical, just BAD business.

Unmet promises in your sales copy that aren't met in your book = unethical.

 

[Daniel A]

@Wuz No, I wouldn't perceive that as unethical. In fact it should build trust. If you deliver tremendous value for free or at a low cost -- the person will maybe be shocked since that's rare online. Then they will trust you which @tafy had already mentioned.

That's the goal. To be seen as a "fiduciary" or trusted advisor. Then of course you have to recommend things that you truly believe will help. You might even feel obligated to do so, since you are now in a position of trust.

EDIT:

Short Version - Jay Abraham

Long Version - Jay Abraham

 

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[Vigilante]

I am still waiting for someone (the OP or other) to post me an example of anyone that called a tripwire unethical.

I think this whole discussion is a straw man.

I have seen a lot of people on the forum say that spousal abuse is good. What do you think? I disagree. I don't think it is good. Go.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I think this whole discussion is a straw man.