Your First Business Should be Profitable From Month 1

[biophase]

Can I ask why you’re acting retarded on purpose? Because that’s not what I said, and you’re taking it out of context, and I know for a fact that you are smart enough to know this.

You know that I validated this organically, need to scale the team first so I can handle that sort of volume, and then scale via ads.

But I feel you’re just making these responses in bad faith — ie, you just don’t like me and my approach. Why not say so, instead of playing these silly games? Just say it: I don’t like BD, I think he’s corrupting the youth and we need to burn him at the stake!

Let me give you some history on why MJ started this forum in 2007. From 2002 until 2007 we were on the Richdad forums, and there were a bunch of people giving advice that had no idea what they were talking about. These people had no track record or experience and were basically regurgitating business and real estate stuff that they read in books. They actually gained some following and were just leading newbies down a shitty path.

This irritated @MJ DeMarco so much that he wanted to create a forum where people had verified badges and net worth so other's reading their posts would know whether or not the person writing about the topic had experience and could be trusted. You are literally doing what the people on that forum did. It's not that I don't like you. But you are writing from a place of bad faith. You can have your own thoughts on how businesses can and cannot be started. And yes I will give you credit because you do admit that you aren't anywhere near where your business advice says you should be. But why should we listen to your advice? You post it as if it were gospel and that you have proven that this is the way.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I have an aggressive, in-your-face style, and I enjoy combat as you may have noticed.

Yes, many have noticed.

You're starting to remind me of several other guys here who are no longer here by my doing... one was a typical bro-marketer who used slick marketing to sell shitty products. He had a following here that was unprecedented, but many of us who were older and experienced members smelled something rancid. He ended up defrauding many people here with his schemes. But boy-o boy, was he slick with his marketing. His ideology of "money over everything" and "marketing call sell dog shit" is eerily similar to yours (although I don't think you are involved in anything nefarious). Despite his legendary status around here, I removed him, any many of his ardent followers followed him out the door, hopefully not with the fugitive status ending.

Then there was another guy who had a "holier than thou" "my way is the only way" type of post style. He had his own philosophy on business (mostly antithetical to Fastlane) and loved pounding his chest with all his supposed high-brow connections. As far as I know, this guy was never wrong in his entire life and he'd argue "the sky is blue" with you. His posts were mostly designed to be adversarial and to provoke the responses of others. His mentality could basically be summed up as this: If you were richer than him, you were lucky. If you were poorer, you just weren't as smart as him.

I also removed him with him no regrets, despite his impressive 30,000 likes and 4,000 posts. The other guy was probably more prolific.

I'm starting to get irritated with your adversarial approach, which is sad, because I agree with some things that you write, like the summary @NeoDialectic posted. The problem is, no one wants to stick their hand in a bowl of M&M's if a few of them have been poisoned, and as of now, that's how all your posts come across.

It's not that your advice is bad (hell I agree with a lot of it) it is that is it pompously and arrogantly delivered, and purposely done not to educate some random forum drive-by, but to irritate and poke at those who disagree. And it's it is getting old.

The problem is your rhetoric will likely preclude the actual discussion.

+1. I no longer comment when I agree or disagree. He lost me some months ago when he said your thoughts don't impact behavior. So at this point, response is pointless other to let him know that I have my limits on discourse that is purposely posted here to be adversarial.

Been there, done that.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

This is the number one advice most of you need. If your first business isn't profitable from month 1, you have a big problem. It means you're chasing after opportunities that are above your pay grade.

Most of you are doing this because you've been misinterpreting MJ's advice against money-chasing. You've become idealistic. You're enchanted by the dream of providing value. Of building the next Facebook. So enchanted that you're not actually creating any value, because you lack the resources to create the kind of value you're aiming for. I'm reading here about people who started 3-4+ businesses, all failures.

If that's you, you're like a starry-eyed kid when he first hears about a new game he likes. The wave of enthusiasm carries you away, and you end up leaping across a chasm far larger than what you're currently capable to cross... and you fall, break your neck, and you go get a job -- teaching your subconscious mind that it's risky to start a business.

I want you to understand that you can be an entrepreneur starting from today. But you have to give up your idealism. Or better, we have to match your idealism with a nose-to-the-dirt empiric, realistic approach to business. If idealism tells you to provide value, empiricism tells you to make money. Idealism is nice... but without money, in the practical realities of the world, it will be doomed to fail.

So how is empiricism different from money-chasing?

Empiricism asks how can I make money in the next 30 days, regardless of how much I have to work to make it?

Money-chasing asks how can I make money in the next 30 days without doing any work, or very little work?

Empiricism doesn't ask for EASY money... it just asks for FAST money.

If you look at the vast majority of extremely rich people, they all had at least one time early on when a ton of money fell into their hands. From then on, it's been a smooth ride for them. I know that some of you will be like "ughh but it's hard to turn $5 million into $50 million... BD just imagine how hard it is to turn that $5M into $500M!!!"

J. P. Getty the oilman who in 1966 was named by Forbes as the richest man in the world ($1.2 billion dollars) said "the first million is the hardest".

Henry Ford the world's first billionaire said "I am ready to account for any day in my life, but don't ask me how I made my first million."

Brian Tracy said "the first million is hard, but the second million is inevitable"

Do you understand what that means? It means the whole game is getting your hands on that liquid $5 million. Then it's a smooth ride. And I can tell you exactly why. Once you have that kinda money, you have slave after slave coming to you, wanting to work for you. They'll even work for free! It's easy to enslave a bunch of people and put them to work to make your dreams happen. And once you're even bigger, it gets even easier. Imagine having the President on speed-dial. "Yo, Joe you got that deal lined up ole man?!"

Elon Musk's day consists of shouting at and abusing people. That's what they call "management", and it's "very hard" work, some people claim.

So let's go back to you. Forget the $5 million. If you can even have $500K liquid, by the end of 1 year, that will be a gigantic leap forward. For most of you here, your families NEVER at any single moment in their history had that kinda money in disposable cash. Just pause to imagine that.

And you CAN make that money within 1 year.

Let's go back to looking at a few big hitters.

J. Paul Getty whom I've mentioned earlier made his first $1 million at 23. That's like YOU making $10 million in today's money by the time you're 23. Can you imagine that?

Rockefeller started his first business in 1859 and by 1865, merely 6 years later, he bought his partner out for $10,000 - the equivalent of $1 million dollars, CASH. Can you even begin to imagine how profitable the business was in those 6 years? Rockefeller was just 26. Imagine... at 26 he had $1 million in cash to buy his partner out.

That Brazillian playboy and gigachad who used to be the richest Brazillian before they put him in jail... he went into the Amazon rainforest scrambling for gold... and emerged at 22 years old a MILLIONAIRE!! His name is Eike Batista.

You see, these guys, their entire lives have been one long easy holiday. They had the women and the fast cars, and the private jets and whatever you guys dream of from the very beginning. They didn't wait to be 40... Then it was a smooth ride.

Listen to what Eike says:

Trekking through malarial mining camps, Batista says he traded $60 million, kept 10 percent for himself, and made a fortune of $6 million by age 22.

He used the proceeds to buy and mechanize his own mine, an experience he says taught him to find productive assets overlooked by others.

“In the middle of the jungle it’s a military operation. You have to build your own city, people need to eat, you have to produce your own power,” he said. “I only survived it because the mine was so rich that it was totally idiot-proof.”

Special Report: The billionaire from Brazil

Eike Batista sits atop one of the world's most expansive industrial conglomerates, ranging from oil and mining to recreation and beauty care. Already the richest person in Brazil, he wants to be the richest in the world.

www.reuters.com

I don't think that registers for most of you. THE MINE WAS SO RICH IT WAS IDIOT-PROOF! It means that even YOU would make a profit from it. It means he couldn't fail. There were no risks. There were no "odds". It was a straight up slam dunk.

And from there it only gets easier. Imagine yourself. "Ughh, what shall we do now with all these millions, let's find some more of those idiot-proof mines... how about we go to the Ruskies, pay some corrupt general 50% and we go buy the F*cker for 10% of the price". Listen... when you buy for 10% of the price, how can you fail? What ODDS do you have to take into account?

In just a couple of years you'll have a global empire.

And the same is true for all these guys. Apart from in some cases their first million, these guys took NO RISKS. And yet, every business YOU start is a risk. You have to worry about your odds. These guys don't. Every business is a slam dunk. Otherwise they don't do it.

If it was you instead of Eike, what would you have thought? "Oh F*ck, better go get a project manager job to see how these mines go" Right? He just jumped on the F*cker and bought it. Would you have headed to the jungle to trade gold, like a savage at 20? What would your family have thought about you, just imagine... Six years later, and you still wouldn't be prepared to head over to the jungle!

Do you now understand?

These guys, all they cared about was money. You think they cared about making a difference in the world. That's wrong. They just cared about money. Maybe in their old age, that idea of making a difference grew on them, but at first, it was 100% the money.

And they went after businesses that were idiot-proof. Where they couldn't fail. First they looked for a business that would generate them cash quickly. Then I'm not gonna tell you what they did, because it was a smooth ride. And so long as you're not a retard - meaning no hookers, not too much bling, no alcohol, no drugs, you'll do just fine after you get your first million cash in the bank.

Notice these attributes... idiot-proof businesses, no risk, no odds, make money quickly, do whatever it takes to succeed, and they didn't wait to "get the knowledge" or become experts before taking action. That's the mindset you need.

 

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[NeoDialectic]

I gotta tell you man, I typically like your analysis of things, but reading this thread is a let down. The most disappointing part is what this thread could have been. As @Antifragile mentions, there are kernels of truth.

If I remove all your storytelling, here is my charitable interpretation of things that could be concluded from your post that I agree with:

1. Money is a good personal metric, a good market signal, and a good motivator.
2. The first dollar is the hardest, and you should strive to make your first entrepreneurial dollar as soon as fast as you can. Rinse and repeat for each order of magnitude above that.
3. Stop action faking. Do things that will actually get you closer to your first sale.
4. If money is your goal, why choose a harder business to make money if there are easier businesses available
5. Select a business where the market demand is so high that you can't lose.

So you want new people to stop twirling their thumbs, buckle down, do some work, focus on making money and do it as efficiently as possible. Sweet! I would guess all the detractors would agree with these as well (and even though @Kak 's ambition would lead him to a different direction with #4, I'm guessing even he would be amenable to others going that route).

The problem is the overall advice is super basic and doesn't take a wall of text to tell, so why the storytelling? A typical reader would conclude it's because there is more info to glean from the actual stories.

The storytelling adds a lot of "between the lines" context that is very disagreeable to many:

1. Do anything you need to do to make money. Even if that means you have to lie, cheat & steal. I'm not going to exactly tell you to do that, but I'll be sure to curate examples of people that insinuate it.
2. It's all one big Good O'le Boys Club and you just ain't in it. Well, not till you make your first 5 million. Then it's easy streak. Then your senator starts calling you with "opportunities".
3. Have a good idea to solve a problem that may take longer than a month to create? Don't be an idiot. First you need to make millions...Somehow
4. Speaking of the somehow. Dude, as long as you focus on doing it FAST, you should be able to do it EZ-PZ. I won't suggest how, but what will separate you is that you are willing to put in some work and you know it needs to be done FAST. Armed with that knowledge, you can't fail!

I can't mind read and won't actually put those words in your mouth. I'm just telling you how I think it comes off.

There is a good discussion to be had on how important it is for beginners to start with things that makes them money faster so they can get their mindset right. I am actually a big supporter of this idea. The problem is your rhetoric will likely preclude the actual discussion.

 

[Kak]

You’re forgetting the barrier to entry as well. Every chance you get to outperform or outmaneuver the competition gives you an edge. High barriers, particularly in slow moving and stale industries, are the playground of intelligent entrepreneurs.

 

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[BellaPippin]

Something about this doesn't sit right, but I can't pinpoint what it is.

Also I guess I should quit since my business hasn't taken off after a month?

 

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[Kak]

My sales cycle alone can be several months. My delivery times if my sales cycle was an hour are frequently longer than a month. Even if my sales cycle and delivery could be accomplished in an hour, my payment terms with customers is 30-60 days.

I sometimes fly to meet with potential strategic partners and the value from that investment of time and money isn’t realized for six+ months.

Just an FYI. Most of the world’s businesses wouldn’t exist with this “need to profit in a month” model.

The only thing that can take off on a tiny runway is a tiny plane. Put me down for making yourself comfortable enough to pursue something legitimate.

 

[Antifragile]

Something about this doesn't sit right, but I can't pinpoint what it is.

Also I guess I should quit since my business hasn't taken off after a month?

That’s because it’s bad advice.

Be careful who you listen to on the internet. Too many Walking Eagles…

 

[NeoDialectic]

Thank you @NeoDialectic. I believe we’ll be able to have a productive discussion around this.

Let’s take the contentious points one by one:


Suppose this was a forum for lawyers who wanted to be successful as lawyers. Would it not be productive to have a look at some previous lawyers, even those who successfully defended and acquited criminals?

Or shall we put a curtain over people’s eyes and tell them “these guys are dangerous, they’re not real lawyers, don’t be like them, that’s not the path to success!”

Personally I don’t believe in enforcing my moral judgements on others. Your morality is between you and your God. And those are private decisions that every person will take for themselves.

If we are to teach business to others, we need to teach business as it is. And business as it is is war without bullets. And as the proverb goes, all is fair in love and war.

So why should I hide the fact that Steve Jobs lied through his teeth, Bill Gates lied through his teeth, Phil Knight of Nike lied through his teeth and so on?

This is part of their real story — how they really became the business icons they are today. I can think that what they did is wrong, but it doesn’t change reality. And some people prefer to excuse their behavior… “oh Steve Jobs is such a visionary! And he changed later in life!” — give me a break. That’s like telling me Jordan Belfort changed lol. It’s just PR.

So yes, I absolutely believe that beginners should be aware of the jungle they’re stepping in and all the dangers. They will come across many such individuals. If they think business is all fair, no foul, they will suffer.

And I will say one more thing which will create uproar amongst the elite here. The criminals have an advantage over God-fearing people in business. Because the criminals have big balls — they’re not afraid of anything, and they’re ready to do whatever it takes to succeed. No sacrifice is too big for them. They are already one step ahead.

You, as a God-fearing citizen, you have to work harder and be more prepared than they are. For example, I have a customer atm who is struggling. They asked to delay a payment for 14 days. I said yes. A criminal would have kicked them in the a$$, and onto the next one. No time wasted. That criminal would be faster than me at scaling, because I care too much about my customers. And I care too much because I’m very proud, everyone I work with has to be a massive success. I carry them over the goalline myself if I have to.


Exaggerations aside, is this that far from the truth? Is it not true that money buys you access and influence? Have sufficient money (billions for this), you can have the President on speed-dial?

Is it not true that the more money you have the easier it gets to make more? Is it not true that it’s easy for Elon Musk to make $1M, but super hard for someone who has $0?

Is it not true that if you donate $5M to your governor during the campaign, you get to give him a phone call later and have him arrange something for you?


As general advice for beginners, I view this as quite good actually.

Most beginners should forget about their world-changing ideas that will take months to execute, and start making some money. Now. Today.

Otherwise we’re talking to a bunch of brokies who dream about being entrepreneurs and never are. You know there are some people that have been on this forum for 5+ years. When they joined they had a job. Today they have a job.

If what you are advising them is working out, why do they still have a job?! Why is 80% of the forum broke, and they continue to be broke even 2 years from now?

When I started out I was in college. I was broke. I just wanted to make money. I started out as a freelancer, no time to open the next Facebook, because hey, gotta bring some money to feed myself and get through college right?!

And from there things snowballed. And I never held a job. Imagine — for 12 years, I earned my own money, and started 4+ businesses two of which were successful (my agencies) and 2 which weren’t. And I paid $40,000+ for 10 days of holiday multiple times. And bought two apartments worth $500K-600K today. And cleared my debts.

And I don’t consider myself one of the big hitters. In fact, you should always think that you suck — that’s where the fire comes from, from negativity, from pain.

Why not get that 80% of the forum who are broke and dreaming of being entrepreneurs… why not get them as actual entrepreneurs, standing on their own feet, making their own money, thinking for themselves? Why are you guys all so ready to sacrifice them to your vision of “world-changing” business that almost never works out successfully? Why the idealism and lack of pragmatism?

You are missing the bigger picture, which is causing you to box shadows. Once again, many posters will agree with some of your ideas if discussed in a vacuum. But they aren't in a vacuum and we disagree with the implications.

Who are you pushing back against? I may not be paying attention, but I haven't heard any of the big posters on here claim to always have been Mother Teresa (me included).

If you read my how-to's , I also give the unethical options. I tell the reader the possible pitfalls, but if they choose to do it that is "between you and your god", as you say. Don't be obtuse. They do come with risks.

MJ himself talked about the dumb choices he made when he was younger. Even till this day in his newest book he tells the reader what their "unethical" choices are, but carefully points out the downsides if the reader goes that route. (I forgot the exact context but it may have been in regards to testing the sales of the soup).

Many on the forums vehemetly disagreed with one of Lex's lifestyle and money making choices (on moral grounds). Yet, MJ let the post remain on the forums and doesn't drag him for it.

So who is saying you should absolutely never step on any toes?

There are different ways we can make a point, and the way we choose to do it has a different effect on the casual observer. You are just giving yourself an excuse by "being ok with sounding like an a-hole or aggressive". It's not about how you sound. You're excusing yourself from doing better. It's about getting the actual message across incorrectly.

I'm not going to try and explain the totality of what there is to know about rhetoric in a forum post but maybe a few examples will help.

---

Point: Most barriers are just excuses and can be overcome as long as you put in the work and just do what needs to be done.

1. "Stop making excuses and make your idea happen. Just look at Uber, they didn't wait for permission and you shouldn't either. Easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission"

2. "Stop making excuses and make your idea happen. Look at Jordan Belfort, he may have spent a few years in the pen but he made ALOT of money and living the life making more now!"

---

Point: Making money is an important factor in learning how to make even more money. Do what you can to get into a profitable business as fast as possible

1. "Don't get too bogged down in trying to build a huge business right away. Come up with an idea and figure out the fastest way to make that happen and get your first dollar."

2. "Why build a big business when you can just make money fast? Find your local drug dealer. Buy 10lb of the good stuff and sell it for 5x in smaller batches. People will be ready to do anything to get it off your hands! (literally, yay!)"

---

I assume you aren't suggesting we actually do #2, as we all know we can just become drug dealers for "fast money". You are likely just trying to light a fire underneath beginner's butts and get them into action to try and learn how to build a business (and make money!). Even if that means they break a few eggs and step on a few toes along the way.

What I'm saying is that your points come across much more like the #2's than #1's.

 

[Antifragile]

The advice is bad. And here is why:

- Like anything else in life, learning takes time.
- Iterating, inventing new solutions to ones that didn't work - that's the name of the game.

The problem with the post like this is that not all is wrong. Parts of what you say are "reasonable" and even right. So it is easy to get sucked into the fancy headline of someone who's admittedly a "marketing expert". If you believed him? You got hoodwinked and props to @Black_Dragon43 for being good enough to fool so many. Marketing 301? lol

In my experience... for what little that is worth because I am not a genius, not a mega success, not some self-proclaimed expert in this or that. I am your average guy, like most people you meet. The thing that makes me do well in business is that I don't quit.

Grit. You must have it.

Leave the bravado and self pacifying "look at how great I am" at the door when you start a business. Accept that you are a nothing, unless you provide value to someone else. If you aren't useful, you are useless - there is nothing in between. To become useful, you must solve some problems or inconveniences. But that's harder done than said. And it can take a few iterations before you get it right.

So if you heed the headline advice of this thread and quit because you didn't get your immediate profit... too bad for you.

I know @MTF isn't active, but his profile pic comes to mind here.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Ok, I understand that. You work with giants, you have to work by their rules. That’s almost always the case (one of the reasons why I’d hate that actually, on a personal note).

But… my question was really about why are you choosing to run this kind of business?

You’re a smart guy. You could be running any kind of business you want. So why accept to deal with long sales cycles, draconian payment terms and long delivery cycles, + being in a position where tou can’t really negotiate terms with clients because of the power difference?

Because he makes a lot more money than you do.

 

[biophase]

Then all I have to do is start running ads and add a few other salespeople, and before you know it, I’ll be at 1000 customers, which is $1M/mo, not counting upsells.

1. Have product
2. Start running ads
3. $1/M month
4. Bugatti

I wish I had thought about running ads. Business is so easy.

 

[biophase]

The original post is all over the place. I’m trying to read your posts objectively but they are full of contradictions.

First you talk about a business needing to make a profit in month one. In another post you’re talking about doing e-commerce. In addition here, you talk about making $1 million a month.

There are so many WTF sentences, I just can’t decide which ones to even quote and respond to.
I just don’t get it. You want us to think big and start businesses like Facebook or Amazon. But you want us to get them profitable in one month?

 

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[BellaPippin]

 

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[Kak]

Ok, I understand that. You work with giants, you have to work by their rules. That’s almost always the case (one of the reasons why I’d hate that actually, on a personal note).

But… my question was really about why are you choosing to run this kind of business?

You’re a smart guy. You could be running any kind of business you want. So why accept to deal with long sales cycles, draconian payment terms and long delivery cycles?

Take a guess dude. I don’t talk about numbers.

 

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[biophase]

This is all very sensible @biophase, thanks for sharing.

It’s strange that you ask why you should listen to my advice. I don’t claim you should, and I’ve made this clear in multiple threads already. In fact, you shouldn’t listen to anyone’s advice as far as I’m concerned.

What you should do is read/listen to different opinions and make up your own mind. Do your own thinking, using what I and others say as a starting point.

I have an aggressive, in-your-face style, and I enjoy combat as you may have noticed. But, people should be their own leaders. I don’t want you or anyone else to be my followers. I have gotten PMs from 4 people about this thread, and I appreciate their support, but I don’t want any followers. You be your own master.

I don’t personally share your view that if someone is wealthier than you, that means they’re more likely than you to be correct about a certain issue.

It's not a wealth issue. It's an experience issue. I may be wealthier than others in a crypto thread or a copywriting thread, but you don't see me giving advice on there. I just don't know what I'm talking about in that realm. Yes, I've read articles and understand it somewhat, but I'm not telling anyone there what I think they should do, or even giving an opinion.

When you are making your $1M/year, your posts will be received a whole lot differently. And it's not mainly because of your money, it's because you've walked the talk.

I think that’s a dangerous path to go down on. People should think for themselves, and they should think critically

Imagine you are taking advice from a person about real estate. He's worth $20 million in real estate. You listen to all his investing and business advice and then you find he won $20M in the lottery last year. Does that change your opinion of his advice?

— but I am well aware that the majority of mankind is still looking for a master to outsource their thinking to. To me, that is against the principles of the fastlane, it is a violation of CONTROL — letting someone else think for you, regardless of whether that someone is a billionaire, the government or your church.

The ire I’ve provoked in the forum among some of the older members is precisely because my views question their authority

Asking @Kak why he's in his field when a marketing agency is much easier to make money with? Come on. It's like saying, hey Lebron why do you keep bouncing that basketball when you can do what I'm doing instead. It will be much easier and less stress.

— that’s why they are upset with me. I don’t think anyone has a monopoly over the truth,

It is your opinion. Anyone can post about anything. The critical thinking that you want everyone else to do must also be applied towards your posts.

The brokies which are 80%+ of the forum aren’t benefited by that. The reason they’re broke is precisely because their entire lives they’ve outsourced their thinking and someone else has been thinking for them. Their parents, their teachers, their employees, whoever. The solution isn’t some new guru, this time a “better” guru because he has made a bunch more money than them.

The solution is to get them to think for themselves and assess reality themselves — make their own moves. The more perspectives they are exposed to, the better.

Yes, this is the reason I respond to your posts. To get others to think for themselves and get my perspective of what you've written. I want them to think about where the advice is coming from.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Something about this doesn't sit right, but I can't pinpoint what it is.

Also I guess I should quit since my business hasn't taken off after a month?

It's the sheer lack of substance in the entire first post.

The complete lack of information and specificity. And the allusion to others' success and anecdotes. None of it has any detail whatsoever and basically says "disregard all knowledge, patience, and understanding."

It's like a really long-winded sales pitch. It's just missing the call to action.

Not to mention stuff like this gem:
"Elon Musk's entire day consists of shouting at and abusing people."

Lol, if that's what your business guru thinks business is, I wouldn't want to do business with them or take business advice from them.

Also, I would want to hear at least one tiny little example of what they did instead of a bunch of really vague (and inaccurate) stories about what other people did. Especially ones that sound pretty anti-business.

 

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[BizyDad]

Unfortunately unlike the guys I’ve been talking about, I haven’t made that sort of money yet. And it’s because I haven’t followed this advice. If I were 18 again, this post + TMF would be my business bible, I’d be a billionaire already.

It is within your power to change this.

You've been on this forum almost 6 years. Why aren't you halfway to billionaire status?

I'm interested. What would you do if you were 18 again?

More importantly, what could you do today to get there? Assuming that is your goal...

 

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[MitchC]

I have to wholeheartedly agree with the first half and the premise of this post.

There should almost be an instant validation to a good business.

I don’t think that necessarily means it’s profitable in the first month, but certainly people should be interested, signing up, etc.

There should be a good spark of validation.

Too many new people waste time on ideas that nobody really wants, trying to make them work. Oh if I just finish this, or add that, maybe people will want it.

I think this quote is relevant to what I’m saying, but it also highlights another good point you made in the OP.

“I want execution risk, not market fit risk”

Meaning that the question should not be “does the market want this?” but “can I execute on this?”

Now the problem this highlights is that a first time entrepreneur may not be the person who can actually execute on this.

So I guess the point about the idea being such a gold mine any retard could run it applies here.

Good post, but man your writing style is abrasive. I guess you got a lot of engagement?

 

[Subsonic]

I like this, especially for a FIRST business.
"If you don't invest a lot you can't loose a lot".

What kind of business one would start as a complete novice, that takes longer than a month to generate profit has a chance of working out?

To start, taking action is imo the only important thing. And the only real real action is engaging with the market. The first time I learned something about business is when I engaged the market and got feedback. Not when I learned copywriting, or sales.

Guess what? When you engage the market with a simple offer that solves a simple problem, you make money.

"Hey old lady, your 2 story windows are dirty? Let me clean them for you."

"Hey car dealer, how about I clean your floors once a month?"

Making money through business is not that deep lol.

@piano 's progress thread shows this well. Man is too young to register a business yet he is making money by throwing a simple offer out in the market.

 

[Antifragile]

It is within your power to change this.

You've been on this forum almost 6 years. Why aren't you halfway to billionaire status?

 

[BizyDad]

Hopefully you don’t really think I’m this dumb. I was actually asking why should someone like ME consider this? It sounds like I’m much better off continuing what I have and growing it…

Every business is sort of like a combination lock. Once you figure the combination, you can just press the pedal!

Yeah, but you and I are still driving metaphorical corvettes with our agencies. It's better than a sedan, but there's a cap to the income/ top speed. Isn't a Bugatti better? You do want a Bugatti, right?

Now I know why I do what I do, but you saying "I won't do it because 60 day terms. Down with the slave masters, I won't play their game" just sounds like another fancier sounding action fake to stay in your comfort zone and not truly enter the grand competition you say you want to play in.

 

[Saad Khan]

This is the number one advice most of you need. If your first business isn't profitable from month 1, you have a big problem. It means you're chasing after opportunities that are above your pay grade.

Most of you are doing this because you've been misinterpreting MJ's advice against money-chasing. You've become idealistic. You're enchanted by the dream of providing value. Of building the next Facebook. So enchanted that you're not actually creating any value, because you lack the resources to create the kind of value you're aiming for. I'm reading here about people who started 3-4+ businesses, all failures.

If that's you, you're like a starry-eyed kid when he first hears about a new game he likes. The wave of enthusiasm carries you away, and you end up leaping across a chasm far larger than what you're currently capable to cross... and you fall, break your neck, and you go get a job -- teaching your subconscious mind that it's risky to start a business.

I want you to understand that you can be an entrepreneur starting from today. But you have to give up your idealism. Or better, we have to match your idealism with a nose-to-the-dirt empiric, realistic approach to business. If idealism tells you to provide value, empiricism tells you to make money. Idealism is nice... but without money, in the practical realities of the world, it will be doomed to fail.

So how is empiricism different from money-chasing?

Empiricism asks how can I make money in the next 30 days, regardless of how much I have to work to make it?

Money-chasing asks how can I make money in the next 30 days without doing any work, or very little work?

Empiricism doesn't ask for EASY money... it just asks for FAST money.

If you look at the vast majority of extremely rich people, they all had at least one time early on when a ton of money fell into their hands. From then on, it's been a smooth ride for them. I know that some of you will be like "ughh but it's hard to turn $5 million into $50 million... BD just imagine how hard it is to turn that $5M into $500M!!!"

J. P. Getty the oilman who in 1966 was named by Forbes as the richest man in the world ($1.2 billion dollars) said "the first million is the hardest".

Henry Ford the world's first billionaire said "I am ready to account for any day in my life, but don't ask me how I made my first million."

Brian Tracy said "the first million is hard, but the second million is inevitable"

Do you understand what that means? It means the whole game is getting your hands on that liquid $5 million. Then it's a smooth ride. And I can tell you exactly why. Once you have that kinda money, you have slave after slave coming to you, wanting to work for you. They'll even work for free! It's easy to enslave a bunch of people and put them to work to make your dreams happen. And once you're even bigger, it gets even easier. Imagine having the President on speed-dial. "Yo, Joe you got that deal lined up ole man?!"

Elon Musk's day consists of shouting at and abusing people. That's what they call "management", and it's "very hard" work, some people claim.

So let's go back to you. Forget the $5 million. If you can even have $500K liquid, by the end of 1 year, that will be a gigantic leap forward. For most of you here, your families NEVER at any single moment in their history had that kinda money in disposable cash. Just pause to imagine that.

And you CAN make that money within 1 year.

Let's go back to looking at a few big hitters.

J. Paul Getty whom I've mentioned earlier made his first $1 million at 23. That's like YOU making $10 million in today's money by the time you're 23. Can you imagine that?

Rockefeller started his first business in 1859 and by 1865, merely 6 years later, he bought his partner out for $10,000 - the equivalent of $1 million dollars, CASH. Can you even begin to imagine how profitable the business was in those 6 years? Rockefeller was just 26. Imagine... at 26 he had $1 million in cash to buy his partner out.

That Brazillian playboy and gigachad who used to be the richest Brazillian before they put him in jail... he went into the Amazon rainforest scrambling for gold... and emerged at 22 years old a MILLIONAIRE!! His name is Eike Batista.

You see, these guys, their entire lives have been one long easy holiday. They had the women and the fast cars, and the private jets and whatever you guys dream of from the very beginning. They didn't wait to be 40... Then it was a smooth ride.

Listen to what Eike says:


I don't think that registers for most of you. THE MINE WAS SO RICH IT WAS IDIOT-PROOF! It means that even YOU would make a profit from it. It means he couldn't fail. There were no risks. There were no "odds". It was a straight up slam dunk.

And from there it only gets easier. Imagine yourself. "Ughh, what shall we do now with all these millions, let's find some more of those idiot-proof mines... how about we go to the Ruskies, pay some corrupt general 50% and we go buy the F*cker for 10% of the price". Listen... when you buy for 10% of the price, how can you fail? What ODDS do you have to take into account?

In just a couple of years you'll have a global empire.

And the same is true for all these guys. Apart from in some cases their first million, these guys took NO RISKS. And yet, every business YOU start is a risk. You have to worry about your odds. These guys don't. Every business is a slam dunk. Otherwise they don't do it.

If it was you instead of Eike, what would you have thought? "Oh F*ck, better go get a project manager job to see how these mines go" Right? He just jumped on the F*cker and bought it. Would you have headed to the jungle to trade gold, like a savage at 20? What would your family have thought about you, just imagine... Six years later, and you still wouldn't be prepared to head over to the jungle!

Do you now understand?

These guys, all they cared about was money. You think they cared about making a difference in the world. That's wrong. They just cared about money. Maybe in their old age, that idea of making a difference grew on them, but at first, it was 100% the money.

And they went after businesses that were idiot-proof. Where they couldn't fail. First they looked for a business that would generate them cash quickly. Then I'm not gonna tell you what they did, because it was a smooth ride. And so long as you're not a retard - meaning no hookers, not too much bling, no alcohol, no drugs, you'll do just fine after you get your first million cash in the bank.

Notice these attributes... idiot-proof businesses, no risk, no odds, make money quickly, do whatever it takes to succeed, and they didn't wait to "get the knowledge" or become experts before taking action. That's the mindset you need.

What kind of hammer have you been carrying with yourself all this time? Should've used it earlier. Turns out you don't need a purpose, a vision statemement, a mission to make your first month profitable.

Maybe you should bring the same hammer to LinkedIn, @Black_Dragon43?

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Hopefully you don’t really think I’m this dumb.

I really don’t know. You seem to be on both sides of everything you say.

 

[ZackerySprague]

I know I don't have any room to give advice here as I am probably nowhere near where you guys are at. But I assume the premise of this post is giving advice for fellow entrepreneur's to not money chase, to understand that their is a process to any venture, and that you need to keep swinging at the plate even after if you tried 3 to 4 businesses.

I will put myself out here and be honest with what's going on with me that I have learned the hardway and that was my lack of action, lack of consistency, basically doing a lot of macro-events before macro-processes.

I also made a huge assumption with the newsletter Aggregator business, my mind got scared of the all of the negative possibilities of what could go wrong just because of a past event that occurred to. My brain was coming up with ways to back out of the idea for an future that has yet to even exist or happen yet. *Smh* I learned this from the book I just finished called "The Mountain of You". We can't predict the future and the worst-outcomes, only to react to them if and when they occur.

Even if the business failed and didn't not make a profit for the first month, I would still act, assess, and adjust if the idea was soft proven or if their was a small sample of a payment validation from a single user or person.

I took the liberty to contact Steven VanCauwenbergh, surprisingly he was very friendly and we had like a 5-10 minute conversation. Dudes definitely a go getter and he recently did a episode on how he would start a business. Maybe it would valuable, here it is:

#725 My take on starting a business

Listen to this episode from Savvy Radio Show on Spotify. 1-Write the concepts 2-Why 3-Market 4-Demographics 5-Research. Will it work? 6-Competition 7-R&D 8-Proof 9-Make a sale. A-Belief B-Concerns C-Ask. Do you have any ideas/questions? Share some feedback go to www.savvypodcast.com

open.spotify.com

He basically told me I should do Arbritage to help get out/finish the debt and to not be afraid of private lending. His point about how he would build a business was to take action immediately and see if your friends and family would buy into the business you're wanting to start. Exchanging value in this case.

But in short, I've learned that from several people that I was a very smart dude, I just lacked consistency and action.

MJ mentions a book called "The One Thng", which surprisingly is interesting I read this book before reading Unscripted a second time (I definitely needed to read it a second-time). This could help someone create a direction to achieve your goal maybe even help creating a plan of action and a series of tasks to complete for each business you try. The book is well worth a read. I bet GoalSumo.com is also probably basis on the premise of this book as well automatic habits combined.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Let me give you some history on why MJ started this forum in 2007. From 2002 until 2007 we were on the Richdad forums, and there were a bunch of people giving advice that had no idea what they were talking about. These people had no track record or experience and were basically regurgitating business and real estate stuff that they have read in books. They actually gained some following and were just leading newbies down a shitty path.

This irritated @MJ DeMarco so much that he wanted to create a forum where people had verified badges and net worth so other's reading their posts would know whether or not the person writing about the topic had experience and could be trusted. You are literally doing what the people on that forum did. It's not that I don't like you. But you are writing from a place of bad faith. You can have your own thoughts on how businesses can and cannot be started. And yes I will give you credit because you do admit that you aren't anywhere near where your business advice says you should be. But why should we listen to your advice? You post it as if it were gospel and that you have proven that this is the way.

This is all very sensible @biophase, thanks for sharing.

It’s strange that you ask why you should listen to my advice. I don’t claim you should, and I’ve made this clear in multiple threads already. In fact, you shouldn’t listen to anyone’s advice as far as I’m concerned.

What you should do is read/listen to different opinions and make up your own mind. Do your own thinking, using what I and others say as a starting point.

I have an aggressive, in-your-face style, and I enjoy combat as you may have noticed. But, people should be their own leaders. I don’t want you or anyone else to be my followers. I have gotten PMs from 4 people about this thread, and I appreciate their support, but I don’t want any followers. You be your own master.

I don’t personally share your view that if someone is wealthier than you, that means they’re more likely than you to be correct about a certain issue. I think that’s a dangerous path to go down on. People should think for themselves, and they should think critically — but I am well aware that the majority of mankind is still looking for a master to outsource their thinking to. To me, that is against the principles of the fastlane, it is a violation of CONTROL — letting someone else think for you, regardless of whether that someone is a billionaire, the government or your church.

The ire I’ve provoked in the forum among some of the older members is precisely because my views question their authority — that’s why they are upset with me. I don’t think anyone has a monopoly over the truth, that is why this is a forum where we’re all having a conversation and learning. Turning TFLF into an oligarchy where the “successful” people all shake hands and support each other publicly and never disagree isn’t in anyone’s interests.

The brokies which are 80%+ of the forum aren’t benefited by that. The reason they’re broke is precisely because their entire lives they’ve outsourced their thinking and someone else has been thinking for them. Their parents, their teachers, their employers, whoever. The solution isn’t some new guru, this time a “better” guru because he has made a bunch more money than them.

The solution is to get them to think for themselves and assess reality themselves — make their own moves. The more perspectives they are exposed to, the better.

 

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[Antifragile]

Respect and admiration to the posters who took the time, and high ground recently in this thread.

@biophase for a history lesson. And patiently explaining why listening to someone with experience matters. Real estate being my background … change it to: I wouldn’t take fitness advice from an obese person.
@NeoDialectic for a quality (must have taken a long time) explanation of why there may be a conflict even when belief systems aren’t misaligned. Perception vs reality. I don’t have that kind of patience, but appreciate reading it here. Makes the forum a better place.
@MJ DeMarco for explaining your position. It’s your forum, your take directly affects everyone’s behaviour.


…
@Black_Dragon43 let’s burry the hatchet. i hope for a spirited but civil chat in @Kak thread on ethical or “good” business vs the alternative. I am convinced that with logic, everyone will see that there is one correct answer.

 

[SeeYouAtTheTop]

This is the number one advice most of you need. If your first business isn't profitable from month 1, you have a big problem. It means you're chasing after opportunities that are above your pay grade.

Most of you are doing this because you've been misinterpreting MJ's advice against money-chasing. You've become idealistic. You're enchanted by the dream of providing value. Of building the next Facebook. So enchanted that you're not actually creating any value, because you lack the resources to create the kind of value you're aiming for. I'm reading here about people who started 3-4+ businesses, all failures.

If that's you, you're like a starry-eyed kid when he first hears about a new game he likes. The wave of enthusiasm carries you away, and you end up leaping across a chasm far larger than what you're currently capable to cross... and you fall, break your neck, and you go get a job -- teaching your subconscious mind that it's risky to start a business.

I want you to understand that you can be an entrepreneur starting from today. But you have to give up your idealism. Or better, we have to match your idealism with a nose-to-the-dirt empiric, realistic approach to business. If idealism tells you to provide value, empiricism tells you to make money. Idealism is nice... but without money, in the practical realities of the world, it will be doomed to fail.

So how is empiricism different from money-chasing?

Empiricism asks how can I make money in the next 30 days, regardless of how much I have to work to make it?

Money-chasing asks how can I make money in the next 30 days without doing any work, or very little work?

Empiricism doesn't ask for EASY money... it just asks for FAST money.

If you look at the vast majority of extremely rich people, they all had at least one time early on when a ton of money fell into their hands. From then on, it's been a smooth ride for them. I know that some of you will be like "ughh but it's hard to turn $5 million into $50 million... BD just imagine how hard it is to turn that $5M into $500M!!!"

J. P. Getty the oilman who in 1966 was named by Forbes as the richest man in the world ($1.2 billion dollars) said "the first million is the hardest".

Henry Ford the world's first billionaire said "I am ready to account for any day in my life, but don't ask me how I made my first million."

Brian Tracy said "the first million is hard, but the second million is inevitable"

Do you understand what that means? It means the whole game is getting your hands on that liquid $5 million. Then it's a smooth ride. And I can tell you exactly why. Once you have that kinda money, you have slave after slave coming to you, wanting to work for you. They'll even work for free! It's easy to enslave a bunch of people and put them to work to make your dreams happen. And once you're even bigger, it gets even easier. Imagine having the President on speed-dial. "Yo, Joe you got that deal lined up ole man?!"

Elon Musk's day consists of shouting at and abusing people. That's what they call "management", and it's "very hard" work, some people claim.

So let's go back to you. Forget the $5 million. If you can even have $500K liquid, by the end of 1 year, that will be a gigantic leap forward. For most of you here, your families NEVER at any single moment in their history had that kinda money in disposable cash. Just pause to imagine that.

And you CAN make that money within 1 year.

Let's go back to looking at a few big hitters.

J. Paul Getty whom I've mentioned earlier made his first $1 million at 23. That's like YOU making $10 million in today's money by the time you're 23. Can you imagine that?

Rockefeller started his first business in 1859 and by 1865, merely 6 years later, he bought his partner out for $10,000 - the equivalent of $1 million dollars, CASH. Can you even begin to imagine how profitable the business was in those 6 years? Rockefeller was just 26. Imagine... at 26 he had $1 million in cash to buy his partner out.

That Brazillian playboy and gigachad who used to be the richest Brazillian before they put him in jail... he went into the Amazon rainforest scrambling for gold... and emerged at 22 years old a MILLIONAIRE!! His name is Eike Batista.

You see, these guys, their entire lives have been one long easy holiday. They had the women and the fast cars, and the private jets and whatever you guys dream of from the very beginning. They didn't wait to be 40... Then it was a smooth ride.

Listen to what Eike says:

Special Report: The billionaire from Brazil

Eike Batista sits atop one of the world's most expansive industrial conglomerates, ranging from oil and mining to recreation and beauty care. Already the richest person in Brazil, he wants to be the richest in the world.

www.reuters.com

I don't think that registers for most of you. THE MINE WAS SO RICH IT WAS IDIOT-PROOF! It means that even YOU would make a profit from it. It means he couldn't fail. There were no risks. There were no "odds". It was a straight up slam dunk.

And from there it only gets easier. Imagine yourself. "Ughh, what shall we do now with all these millions, let's find some more of those idiot-proof mines... how about we go to the Ruskies, pay some corrupt general 50% and we go buy the F*cker for 10% of the price". Listen... when you buy for 10% of the price, how can you fail? What ODDS do you have to take into account?

In just a couple of years you'll have a global empire.

And the same is true for all these guys. Apart from in some cases their first million, these guys took NO RISKS. And yet, every business YOU start is a risk. You have to worry about your odds. These guys don't. Every business is a slam dunk. Otherwise they don't do it.

If it was you instead of Eike, what would you have thought? "Oh F*ck, better go get a project manager job to see how these mines go" Right? He just jumped on the F*cker and bought it. Would you have headed to the jungle to trade gold, like a savage at 20? What would your family have thought about you, just imagine... Six years later, and you still wouldn't be prepared to head over to the jungle!

Do you now understand?

These guys, all they cared about was money. You think they cared about making a difference in the world. That's wrong. They just cared about money. Maybe in their old age, that idea of making a difference grew on them, but at first, it was 100% the money.

And they went after businesses that were idiot-proof. Where they couldn't fail. First they looked for a business that would generate them cash quickly. Then I'm not gonna tell you what they did, because it was a smooth ride. And so long as you're not a retard - meaning no hookers, not too much bling, no alcohol, no drugs, you'll do just fine after you get your first million cash in the bank.

Notice these attributes... idiot-proof businesses, no risk, no odds, make money quickly, do whatever it takes to succeed, and they didn't wait to "get the knowledge" or become experts before taking action. That's the mindset you need.

I’m enjoying these posts. Great kick in the a$$ to keep going.

You’re bringing the heat lately.

 

[Kak]

Why make life hard for yourself unnecessarily and do business like 50-60 years ago?

The short answer? Because my company provides material that is integral to the supply chains of multi-billion dollar companies and I’m subject to them. If I tried to bend them to my will, they’d laugh.

Also, don’t take these details as a complaint. It’s not. I totally accept doing business this way. Navigating the hardships this model creates on others is part of the reason my company is what it is.

 

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[BizyDad]

More importantly, what could you do today to get there? Assuming that is your goal...

Thank you for at least contributing value, unlike your other two friends.

If this comment is directed at me, I think it is misplaced. I wasn't taking a shot at you, regardless of how it is perceived.

I asked a question Andy Black asks people all the time.

But… my question was really about why are you choosing to run this kind of business?

You’re a smart guy. You could be running any kind of business you want. So why accept to deal with long sales cycles, draconian payment terms and long delivery cycles?

You're asking him the same question I asked you. Why don't you answer mine first?

Why do you do what you do? Agencies are not the most profitable of endeavors. You know this.

You espouse ecommerce, but you have no ecommerce even.

I recently saw you tell someone you wouldn't get involved in selling industrial materials to Asia. If that is within your ability, and you want to be #1 in the world because it is a competition, then why do you choose to spend time the way you do?

These are all recent quotes by you on various threads in the past week and they just don't add up. I'm not taking shots. I'm genuinely curious why the double standard?