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Why most people are WRONG about Cryptocurrency

DrWumbo

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Reading through many of the threads on The Fastlane related to Cryptocurrency, it still is very apparent that people aren't very familiar with the basics of what a "Cryptocurrency" is, even if they are strongly for it/against it. I'm hoping to clear up some of the misconceptions I have read on here and supply everyone with a better understanding.

Over the past year and a half I have gotten into the Cryptocurrency industry. There are so many projects trying to accomplish real world problems with solutions incorporating DLT/blockchain. If fully utilized, it can lead to more secure, cheaper, and accessible services and bring us a more "controlled by the people, for the people" Web 3.0.

Here are some misconceptions that have been spread far and wide, starting with the biggest one.

  1. "CRYPTOCURRENCIES" are NOT solely a replacement for our current currency system.
Reading throughout the Fastlane, both many supporters and opposers believe that the sole purpose of Cryptocurrencies are here to replace our current system. This tricks many people, as the name itself suggest that! This can be farther from the truth though.

Bitcoin was the first Crypto to hit the market. The purpose of BTC is to act as a digitalized, decentralized currency replacement to any system around the world. As more projects incorporating blockchain technology started to come out, people needed a name to stamp on the industry. As Bitcoin was the most popular, valuable, and the underlying technology, Blockchain, was first utilized for a digital currency, the name Cryptocurrency was given to the industry.

According to Coinmarketcap, there are roughly 1800 Cryptos on the market today. The majority of these Cryptos are NOT currency replacements. Go through the list and read up on the projects. You have BTC, LTC, Monero, Dash etc that are acting as a digital currency. But then go read up on projects such as NEO, Ontology, Cardano, Elastos, Zilliqa and others. You will quickly see that the majority of projects are incorporating DLT/blockchain technology into real world solutions to solve real world problems.


2. Cryptocurrencies are a scam, bubble, etc and have no real value

The mainstream media has hammered this topic over and over again, convincing people that Cryptos are some weird internet invention that is extremely speculative and used to just make money. If you read up on some of the projects I have listed above, you can see that this isn't the case.The Cryptocurrency space IS a bubble and there is no doubting that. The majority of Cryptos will die in the next few years when the market hits an insane, multi trillion dollar market cap and goes "POP!". So you might think to yourself, "Why invest at all then?"

If you go and take a look at the big tech companies back in 2000/2001 during the Tech Bubble, you can see the INSANE valuations that they hit. Amazon hit $85 a share before plummeting back down to $6. If you had a true understanding of the market and these companies, you could see that they were insanely valued and had to over correct at some point in the future. By understanding this, you could ride out the trend and make great profits. In early, out early.

But what happened in the Tech bubble is that the companies who offered the world with true value, like Amazon, Apple, Google etc stayed around, even though their market cap went down by over 70%. Now, they are the worlds most valuable companies. This will happen with cryptos as well. The prices will go astronomically high. The bubble will pop and they will crash into the Earth. The REAL Cryptocurrencies, like NEO (one of my favorites), will stay alive and further cement themselves as huge players in the space. They will survive just like Amazon did, by providing real value to the world. This again will create another buying opportunity and allow the market to correct itself and go back up to new heights that have never been seen before. Tell me, how amazing would it be if you could go back and buy Amazon at $6 a share, while it currently resides close to $1900? If you understand the technology, the market, and companies, you can ride this wave and possibly set yourself up in a position to recreate this event.


3. Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT)/Blockchain doesn't offer any more value than current systems

The people that say this don't have a shred of understanding what DLT/Blockchain really is. To crudely sum it up, this technology allows us to cheaply and securely, transfer information like we haven't seen before. It utilizes a network that has set rules and parameters, visible to everyone, to handle this information, instead of a mass corporation handling it. DLT/Blockchain eliminates expensive, insecure, and untrustworthy middlemen.

We have banks today that charge incredibly high fees, gamble our money, open MILLIONS of accounts in order to meet quotas etc. The reason this happens is that these banks are setup to act in a shady and/or unlawful manner. What I mean by that is the internal culture and rules makes it okay to break the law. Need to hit that account quota or your fired? Then open up new accounts without peoples permission. Pressured by big investors to make a bigger profit? Start investing other peoples money into riskier assets. These networks are designed to only promote HEALTHY behavior for everyone. Because it has set rules and is a network, you can't do what the network won't allow you to do. This enables a HUGE way of how things can be done, because even if a bad actor acts in the most selfish way possible, because of how the network is structured, it can be overall beneficial to everyone.


4. The Cool Down.

Now, stay with me. I'm going to bring us off of the amazing Cryptocurrency high that I have spewed to you guys. This technology is NEW. It is PROMISING. It has very LITTLE real world adoption (yet). There are many people out there that will jump down your throats if you don't think everything in the world needs to have a blockchain, which it doesn't. This is a speculative market, with speculative projects that promise great things. What I have said above scratches the surface of what I, or better yet, more knowledgeable people than me can tell you.

Blockchain is the technology behind these Cryptocurrency projects. In my opinion, Blockchain has SERIOUS real world use cases. There is a reason why Google, AMEX, JP Mogran, FaceBook and others are researching it. Blockchain has the capability to bring us into the next era of the Web and the companies pushing towards this era will more than likely HAVE to incorporate it as the capabilities are amazing. Most cryptos are vaporware and the ones that will thrive will be the projects that are using blockchain as a foundation to much bigger problems.

Please, DYOR and ask as many questions as possible. If it is wanted, I can make another thread on my personal investing experience and advice. Below are some great informational pieces. Hope I helped!

Siam Kidd - My favorite person for anything related to finance, business and explains crypto's brilliantly

Web 3.0

Web 3.0 Article 2
 

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Why does every company need a coin?

It seems to me that the blockchain technology can function perfectly fine without an associated coin. What can the coin do, specifically, that a dollar cannot?

My skepticism in this space stems from what appears to me as companies doing massive fundraising without actually providing anything to "investors," while skirting what would normally be a regulated environment for raising funds from non-accredited investors. By buying a cryptocurrency, you don't own equity, voting rights, or... anything. I just don't really understand the purpose behind the coins themselves.
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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Why does every company need a coin?

It seems to me that the blockchain technology can function perfectly fine without an associated coin. What can the coin do, specifically, that a dollar cannot?

My skepticism in this space stems from what appears to me as companies doing massive fundraising without actually providing anything to "investors," while skirting what would normally be a regulated environment for raising funds from non-accredited investors. By buying a cryptocurrency, you don't own equity, voting rights, or... anything. I just don't really understand the purpose behind the coins themselves.
We can take the project NEO as an example.

NEO has two tokens. One called "NEO" and the other called "GAS". By holding NEO, you have a stake in the network and have the right to vote on proposed changes to the network. By further holding NEO, it distributes another token called GAS. GAS allows you to run smart contracts on the platform.

Different Cryptos that aren't a currency offer different ways to run their network, voting rights etc. When the NEO network fully launches and you are able to have things like a house on their network, there could be different options to pay. You could pay with a Crypto or even a countries currency (this will be further talked about in the future). There are even Crypto's that are "pegged" to a countries currency. Here is an example https://neonewstoday.com/general/alchemint-releases-whitepaper-announces-sdusd-tokens/

In all, different coins do different things depending on the project. They DO have purpose behind them, like what I mentioned above
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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Everyone can be mistaken. Someone in the larger, some in a lesser degree. I think that the most common mistake is to rely on only one site or even article. In my opinion, it’s crucially important to make deep research and to compare information from different sources. It’s even more important for newbies.
Most people, for any type of information, usually rely on one source of media, or just whatever headline they see. Most of whatever is going around is pushed to form a certain opinion. This is certainly a small example of many
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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Yes yes, it's not a farce, it's just everybody "just doesn't understand". Cryptobelievers favourite high horse.

350 "didn't understands"
List of Dead Coins | Coinopsy

0 actively used in non-contraband commerce.
If you go through my post, you can see some points that I have identified that most people believe. It's from talking to a ton of people and having them approach me about it. There are many great projects being developed, that could have a great benefit in the area they are working in.

There are stores that do accept crypto, such as BTC, DASH, and Nano. From my POV, I could care less about "Crypto's" that are trying to create their own currencies, as stated above. Your last sentence seems to imply that the value of crypto weighs of it being used in commerce, which is far from the truth.

Furthermore, separate from cryptos, DLT technology is a great push for more secure and anonymous forms of data transfer, which is where my focus is on. MOST Crypto's are shit projects/will fail. There are a few that will be able to create true change and live. My opinion is what happened back in the 2000's with the Tech Bubble will happen to Crypto. Time will tell
 

GoGetter24

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There are many great projects being developed, that could have a great benefit in the area they are working in
They're great in the minds of clever engineers & cryptoanarchist types, not real layman consumers.

The value of crypto will be judged by the same rules as every other enterprise. The importance of commercial application doesn't disappear when true believerism appears. And the fact is nobody cares about utility tokens or crypto currencies.

Braintree started in 2007, Stripe started in 2010, bitcoin in 2009. Notice the difference in real world uptake.

This religion/fad will die out soon enough. The real risk of it is that it will cloud judgement and prevent people spotting what the real next-generation tech will be, and thereby fail to invest before that bandwagon picks up steam.
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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They're great in the minds of clever engineers & cryptoanarchist types, not real layman consumers.

The value of crypto will be judged by the same rules as every other enterprise. The importance of commercial application doesn't disappear when true believerism appears. And the fact is nobody cares about utility tokens or crypto currencies.

Braintree started in 2007, Stripe started in 2010, bitcoin in 2009. Notice the difference in real world uptake.

This religion/fad will die out soon enough. The real risk of it is that it will cloud judgement and prevent people spotting what the real next-generation tech will be, and thereby fail to invest before that bandwagon picks up steam.
Yup, exactly. Solving real world problems and bringing value to the world is what matters. Like I talked about above, check out NEO or ONT. This is a developing Ecosystem that is building out that is trying to solve real problems that will impact companies and consumers. Checkout the work they are doing, especially in China.

I would say it isn't correct to compare Bitcoin to Braintree/Stripe as they aren't even relatable. Bitcoin was started by a person/persons as an alternative to currency. There isn't a direct development team going forward, deciding on how to further push their product (also, starting a new, world wide currency seems like a hell of a more challenge than a payment processor :rofl:) . Bitcoin showed us what DLT/Blockchain can do for the world, while a company like Stripe has huge funding, many employees, and is an actual company with a development roadmap.

Regardless, we will see many terrible cryptos pop up, with a few good ones. The goal is to identify and invest in the good ones, while riding the speculative wave to the top. After that, the real players will survive or be created
 

TinyTim

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They're great in the minds of clever engineers & cryptoanarchist types, not real layman consumers.

The value of crypto will be judged by the same rules as every other enterprise. The importance of commercial application doesn't disappear when true believerism appears. And the fact is nobody cares about utility tokens or crypto currencies.

Braintree started in 2007, Stripe started in 2010, bitcoin in 2009. Notice the difference in real world uptake.

This religion/fad will die out soon enough. The real risk of it is that it will cloud judgement and prevent people spotting what the real next-generation tech will be, and thereby fail to invest before that bandwagon picks up steam.
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/vechain-announces-blockchain-vaccine-tracing-solution-for-china-cm1008622

Just one of hundreds of examples. It's happening, whether you like it or not.
 

Pete799p

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No question in my mind block chain is the future. Totally agree that the currency/gold play is way over sold. Real opportunity is in application of the tech.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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Why does every company need a coin?

It seems to me that the blockchain technology can function perfectly fine without an associated coin. What can the coin do, specifically, that a dollar cannot?

My skepticism in this space stems from what appears to me as companies doing massive fundraising without actually providing anything to "investors," while skirting what would normally be a regulated environment fort raising funds from non-accredited investors. By buying a cryptocurrency, you don't own equity, voting rights, or... anything. I just don't really understand the purpose behind the coins themselves.
This is the most confusing part of cryptocurrencies for most people. They think all coins are just copies of Bitcoin. And that you can just run a coin like you run a software. Also naming them "coins" has created a lot of confusion. Specially the way the stupid mainstream media presents them as digital money. This "coins" could had been called something else like nodes or solutions or verifications. But they were called coins because the first distributed ledger technology was called Bitcoin and it was meant to replace money but it has'nt yet.

It is true that the basic technology called distributed ledger technology is the same for all coins. Bitcoin is the bare bones of this technology. A system of decentralized accounting. Every other coin you have heard of builds on top of this technology.

But the major coins in the market all create a new and different ecosystem if you want to call it that.

For example Ethereum creates an ecosystem for smart contracts. So does Neo and hundreds of other coins like it. But Ethereum was the first so it has a bigger market share in the smart contract ecosystem. It also has the largest team behind it.

Than you have a coin like Iota that builds an ecosystem based on the internet of things that connects all electronics to one another through the tangle. That means if you lose a connection through one electronic the connection still functions because Iota quickly replaces that connection. And yes there will be copy cats of this coin and those are the ones that you stay away from. Also the ones that give a bad name to all coins because they have no teams backing them up and they are used as pump and dumps.

Than you have coins like Colx that will use your free storage on your computer to power up a cloud service using your free hard drive space. So for this coin the ecosystem is creating a cloud service out of the users of the coin. Basically a decentralized cloud.

Blockchain can't function without an associated coin because is not software. It's an accounting system. Block chain relies on its users to compute algorithms. The speed that an algorithm is computed is called the hash rate. To compute an algorithm you need energy and computing power. By buying a coin you're essentially investing your electric power and computer hardware into the system. Electricity is not free nor is your CPU, RAM, Hard Drive and graphics card, so you do have a stake in the game. If you run a blockchain without letting others buy your coins you would had created a centralized ledger system. You'll be spending a lot of money on computers and electricity but at least you'll be the sole owner of the coin.

QUOTE="GoGetter24, post: 717986, member: 51591"]Yes yes, it's not a farce, it's just everybody "just doesn't understand". Cryptobelievers favourite high horse.

350 "didn't understands"
List of Dead Coins | Coinopsy

0 actively used in non-contraband commerce.[/QUOTE]

No really, YOU don't understand.
 
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TinyTim

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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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This is the most confusing part of cryptocurrencies for most people. They think all coins are just copies of Bitcoin. And that you can just run a coin like you run a software. Also naming them "coins" has created a lot of confusion. Specially the way the stupid mainstream media presents them as digital money. This "coins" could had been called something else like nodes or solutions or verifications. But they were called coins because the first distributed ledger technology was called Bitcoin and it was meant to replace money but it has'nt yet.

It is true that the basic technology called distributed ledger technology is the same for all coins. Bitcoin is the bare bones of this technology. A system of decentralized accounting. Every other coin you have heard of builds on top of this technology.

But the major coins in the market all create a new and different ecosystem if you want to call it that.

For example Ethereum creates an ecosystem for smart contracts. So does Neo and hundreds of other coins like it. But Ethereum was the first so it has a bigger market share in the smart contract ecosystem. It also has the largest team behind it.

Than you have a coin like Iota that builds an ecosystem based on the internet of things that connects all electronics to one another through the tangle. That means if you lose a connection through one electronic the connection still functions because Iota quickly replaces that connection. And yes there will be copy cats of this coin and those are the ones that you stay away from. Also the ones that give a bad name to all coins because they have no teams backing them up and they are used as pump and dumps.

Than you have coins like Colx that will use your free storage on your computer to power up a cloud service using your free hard drive space. So for this coin the ecosystem is creating a cloud service out of the users of the coin. Basically a decentralized cloud.

Blockchain can't function without an associated coin because is not software. It's an accounting system. Block chain relies on its users to compute algorithms. The speed that an algorithm is computed is called the hash rate. To compute an algorithm you need energy and computing power. By buying a coin you're essentially investing your electric power and computer hardware into the system. Electricity is not free nor is your CPU, RAM, Hard Drive and graphics card, so you do have a stake in the game. If you run a blockchain without letting others buy your coins you would had created a centralized ledger system. You'll be spending a lot of money on computers and electricity but at least you'll be the sole owner of the coin.

QUOTE="GoGetter24, post: 717986, member: 51591"]Yes yes, it's not a farce, it's just everybody "just doesn't understand". Cryptobelievers favourite high horse.

350 "didn't understands"
List of Dead Coins | Coinopsy

0 actively used in non-contraband commerce.


Great reply.
 
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DrWumbo

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Even some more great resources: Ontology in Japan and VC Cooperation

While this could all be fluff, it shows extremely strong signs that these projects are gaining real world recognition. The NEO ecosystem and other China based companies are still operating, even while the Gov. has a huge crackdown on trading. The Chinese Gov. is allowing these companies to continue to operate, while they develop a legal framework to control this technology and use it for their benefit. These Chinese based companies will implement themselves in the first wave of this integration.
 
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DrWumbo

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No question in my mind block chain is the future. Totally agree that the currency/gold play is way over sold. Real opportunity is in application of the tech.
BTC will continue to be the "digital gold" due to the fact that it was the first mover and has the most attention, even if it provides very little real world value with its current implementation. But we can see around that :thumbsup:
 

GoGetter24

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No really, YOU don't understand.
Someone should write a machine learning algorithm that tracks crypto snobbery and high horse jockeying around the internet, and then trades based on its patterns (I've already written about how bitcoin prices closely follow google search trend charts for bitcoin). True believers can be monetized, so taking their money sounds a much better play than trying to explain why their investment thesis is nonsense.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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Someone should write a machine learning algorithm that tracks crypto snobbery and high horse jockeying around the internet, and then trades based on its patterns (I've already written about how bitcoin prices closely follow google search trend charts for bitcoin). True believers can be monetized, so taking their money sounds a much better play than trying to explain why their investment thesis is nonsense.
Sounds like you're the one on the high horse here, seen how you keep mentioning it.

Oh wow what a big revelation that Bitcoin starts gaining momentum and the mainstream media starts hyping the shit out of it. Than everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and starts googling it. Next time you research trends try researching what came first bitcoin's bull run or the media's attention.

Like I said Bitcoin was the first, that's the only thing Bitcoin has going on for itself. You keep focusing on Bitcoin like it's the end all be all to blockchain technology. There are better ecosystems to invest in like Ethereum. The people that are investing large sums of money are the one's that believe in the technology and want to see it come into fruition. If you're in it just for the money you will lose because you won't know a legit coin from a scam. You will lose because you won't recognize hype from actual breakthrough work. You will lose because you see this technology and think they are stocks when they are nothing like it.

The first Personal Computer came out in 1975. Only geeks used them in their homes. It wasn't until the early 2000's that everyone and their grandma had a pc at home. It took 25 years for PC's to go mainstream. Bitcoin came out in 2008 so it's only been 10 years since blockchain technology was introduced. In only ten years the market cap for all cryptocurrencies has reached 500 billion dollars. With that much energy behind it there is no way this technology is scam.

Sorry gramps but it seems that you're brain can't wrap itself around this technology. It's better if you just forget about it and let everyone else reap the benefits.
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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Sounds like you're the one on the high horse here, seen how you keep mentioning it.

Oh wow what a big revelation that Bitcoin starts gaining momentum and the mainstream media starts hyping the sh*t out of it. Than everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and starts googling it. Next time you research trends try researching what came first bitcoin's bull run or the media's attention.

Like I said Bitcoin was the first, that's the only thing Bitcoin has going on for itself. You keep focusing on Bitcoin like it's the end all be all to blockchain technology. There are better ecosystems to invest in like Ethereum. The people that are investing large sums of money are the one's that believe in the technology and want to see it come into fruition. If you're in it just for the money you will lose because you won't know a legit coin from a scam. You will lose because you won't recognize hype from actual breakthrough work. You will lose because you see this technology and think they are stocks when they are nothing like it.

The first Personal Computer came out in 1975. Only geeks used them in their homes. It wasn't until the early 2000's that everyone and their grandma had a pc at home. It took 25 years for PC's to go mainstream. Bitcoin came out in 2008 so it's only been 10 years since blockchain technology was introduced. In only ten years the market cap for all cryptocurrencies has reached 500 billion dollars. With that much energy behind it there is no way this technology is scam.

Sorry gramps but it seems that you're brain can't wrap itself around this technology. It's better if you just forget about it and let everyone else reap the benefits.
I was hoping to have a great discussion with this thread, but it seems GoGetter doesn't want to have one. Starting this thread out I wrote about misconceptions people have about the crypto space and even went against the "crypto high horses" by saying the real value of Crypto lies in the DLT/Blockchain technology and most coins are not worth your while.

With the comments GoGetter has made, it seems like the above information would be useful for him/her to go over, as the several comments left focusing solely on BTC, focusing on failed coins (which there are many), and trying to compare BTC to companies like Braintree/Stripe shows the huge disconnect of knowledge needed to have a constructive discussion.
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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Someone should write a machine learning algorithm that tracks crypto snobbery and high horse jockeying around the internet, and then trades based on its patterns (I've already written about how bitcoin prices closely follow google search trend charts for bitcoin). True believers can be monetized, so taking their money sounds a much better play than trying to explain why their investment thesis is nonsense.
You are right about this and when it comes to trying to predict a rise in the Global Market cap, this is a good indicator to take into account. I can't speak for everyone on this forum, but personally I do NOT invest in BTC. While its price might skyrocket easily past $20K and to higher numbers, the ROI when compared to other projects is actually much smaller. Furthermore, BTC doesn't provide much real world utility. I would much rather ride the wave up on legitimate projects, with higher ROIS, and get out before it goes "pop". Just my 2 cents.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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I was hoping to have a great discussion with this thread, but it seems GoGetter doesn't want to have one. Starting this thread out I wrote about misconceptions people have about the crypto space and even went against the "crypto high horses" by saying the real value of Crypto lies in the DLT/Blockchain technology and most coins are not worth your while.

With the comments GoGetter has made, it seems like the above information would be useful for him/her to go over, as the several comments left focusing solely on BTC, focusing on failed coins (which there are many), and trying to compare BTC to companies like Braintree/Stripe shows the huge disconnect of knowledge needed to have a constructive discussion.
It goes to show how new this technology is and the potential it has to change many industries. People can't disconnect Bitcoin to Blockchain technology. The same thing happen when Bitconnect the ponzi scheme company that stole millions went bust. People were blaming bitcoin and pointing fingers at bitcoin for been a scam. When in fact Bitconnect was the scam and it was only using Bitcoin as the prop.

Also with Mt. Gox shut down people were blaming bitcoin not the exchange. It's crazy how lazy people are and than they want to have an opinion on the matter. This is the last time I'm writing anything about cryptocurrency on this forum GoGetter shows you how people already made up their minds about a subject and can't listen to reason. If you go back you can read the same comments he made in another thread about cryptocurrencies they are all the same warning people to keep away from the scam called Bitcoin.
 

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GoGetter24

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This is the last time I'm writing anything about cryptocurrency on this forum GoGetter shows you how people already made up their minds about a subject and can't listen to reason
It's the opposite.

I started researching the crypto play with an open mind. I went into the ethereum thread and laid out the case against crypto (currency and blockchain), and awaited the response. The response said it all. A broad assortment of logical fallacies, ad hominems, and all round teeth gnashing and screeching. Some guys were pinging me for months after, psychotically attaching an investment thesis to their own egos. True believers. I had to put 3 on ignore just to block out the lingering hate that I'd dared question their prophet.

The funny thing is I've seen exactly the same thing happen before: in the silver market.

If you dared question it, they just went nuts at you. If the price went up, it was because they were wise geniuses who "got it". If the price went down it was just because people were "manipulating" the price, and it was temporarily, and a good time to "deploy capital" (buy more silver). They got completely annihilated (buying silver many years ago at 40+/ounce, currently 14).

You are not your investment thesis. It should work for you, not the other way around.

I suppose the real question is: why do I care? Why do I stoke the fervor of true believers by daring to question their prophet? I guess I don't know. It's probably because most of them are early twenties guys, and I see this as just another way evil victimizers, fraudsters, and crooks use to chew up innocent people for their own gain, as happened to me albeit in different ways, and it's therefore immoral for me not to open my mouth.

2+2=4, always will, and that's the metaphysics I'll evaluate everything by. Let's see if you're strong enough to do the same, or if you'll be consumed by smarter, more immoral men.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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fyou dared question it, they just went nuts at you. If the price went up, it was because they were wise geniuses who "got it". If the price went down it was just because people were "manipulating" the price, and it was temporarily, and a good time to "deploy capital" (buy more silver). They got completely annihilated (buying silver many years ago at 40+/ounce, currently 14).

You are not your investment thesis. It should work for you, not the other way around.

I suppose the real question is: why do I care? Why do I stoke the fervor of true believers by daring to question their prophet? I guess I don't know. It's probably because most of them are early twenties guys, and I see this as just another way evil victimizers, fraudsters, and crooks use to chew up innocent people for their own gain, as happened to me albeit in different ways, and it's therefore immoral for me not to open my mouth.

2+2=4, always will, and that's the metaphysics I'll evaluate everything by. Let's see if you're strong enough to do the same, or if you'll be consumed by smarter, more immoral men.
What are you even saying at this point? Your rambling makes no sense true believers, metaphysics, geniuses evil victimizers, phrophets, immoral men.

Money does not care about morality. It's just a tool not a moral compass.

You got scammed out of money and that sucks but don't applied that experience to everything.

And one last note blockchain is a technology not stocks. Repeat after me blockchain is a technology not stocks. Blockchain is a technology not stocks.
 
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DrWumbo

DrWumbo

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It's the opposite.

I started researching the crypto play with an open mind. I went into the ethereum thread and laid out the case against crypto (currency and blockchain), and awaited the response. The response said it all. A broad assortment of logical fallacies, ad hominems, and all round teeth gnashing and screeching. Some guys were pinging me for months after, psychotically attaching an investment thesis to their own egos. True believers. I had to put 3 on ignore just to block out the lingering hate that I'd dared question their prophet.

The funny thing is I've seen exactly the same thing happen before: in the silver market.

If you dared question it, they just went nuts at you. If the price went up, it was because they were wise geniuses who "got it". If the price went down it was just because people were "manipulating" the price, and it was temporarily, and a good time to "deploy capital" (buy more silver). They got completely annihilated (buying silver many years ago at 40+/ounce, currently 14).

You are not your investment thesis. It should work for you, not the other way around.

I suppose the real question is: why do I care? Why do I stoke the fervor of true believers by daring to question their prophet? I guess I don't know. It's probably because most of them are early twenties guys, and I see this as just another way evil victimizers, fraudsters, and crooks use to chew up innocent people for their own gain, as happened to me albeit in different ways, and it's therefore immoral for me not to open my mouth.

2+2=4, always will, and that's the metaphysics I'll evaluate everything by. Let's see if you're strong enough to do the same, or if you'll be consumed by smarter, more immoral men.
I've had this happen to me as well. I went into a subreddit for a project called Deep Brain Chain, which is essentially distrusted processing for AI/ML models. I brought up the case against it, citing how cheap Google Cloud, Azure, AWS etc are, while also providing the best frameworks for your project. With the introduction of Google's TPU's, it further gives them an edge in this space. The result was that I got hit hard with attacks. It happens a lot in ANY type of specific niche community, not just Crypto.

I get it was a bad experience, but for the last time, the purpose of this thread was for a constructive discussion, where we could talk about the positives and negatives. By offering attacks and demonstrating uneducated responses, it seems that you are fostering the same type of environment that you despise.

If you want to offer some real value to the thread, please do so.
 

ChrisV

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Tell me, how amazing would it be if you could go back and buy Amazon at $6 a share, while it currently resides close to $1900?
yea except Amazon used to be shit.. imo one of the main reasons for their popularity is the fact that eBay started putting profits before people and sank... but before that eBay was way ahead of Amazon

Listen, here’s a good rule of thumb that will make you money in stocks... When you start using a new product, buy a little stock.

In other words, buy stocks in products people are using. If you’re using a product, chances are other people are using them.

Buy stocks in companies who makes products who you and your friends buy. When you and your friends buy other products, put the stock elsewhere. If you do that, statistically you’ll make bank. Pay attention to your emotions. Which products emotionally compel you to buy.

A companies stock prices directly correlates with how much people are using their products. Lets take Apple. They announced the first iPod in 2001. The first iPhone in 2007. The iPad and iPhone 4 in 2010

Screen Shot 2018-09-02 at 7.01.14 PM.png

Imagine if all the people when they bought their first iPhone (lets say in 2010 or w/e) bought stock in Apple. All the people who started using Amazon bought Amazon stock.

All the people who started using AOL bought AOL stock when they started to use it, and dumped it as they stopped using it. Bought MySpace stock when they started using MySpace, but started dumping MySpace stock as they started to slow their usage. Then bought Facebook stock at the same time.

Should you buy Bitcoin? well do you think that people are going to start using bitcoin more? Then buy Bitcoin.

You need to look at the Macro picture. Not the little bumps in the market. Stocks rise (mostly) because a company is doing well. A company does well because it puts out good products and services. If you look at it like that, you won’t get caught up in the BS trends and bubbles.

What do you think @ApparentHorizon

I mean blockchain is going to get adopted. Massively. There’s almost no question. Blockchain is here to stay. It’s a good technology. Which blockchain companies specifically? Im not sure. Yea there’s going to be a bubble, but there’s also going to be real value there. Key is grabbing the really value creators and ignoring the ‘meekest too’ companies. If you wanna cash our real quick... buy the real valuable ones, then get out before the bubble hits. But keep in mind it’s a dishonest way of doing business. That money had to come from somewhere. All that money you’re making is going to come out of the pockets of some dad who didn’t know what he was doing and just wanted to make some money getting in on the hype. But if you wanna make some quick money at someone else’s expense.. shit.. go for it.

It’s going to be the same as the tech bubble. There are going to be real players and innovators (Microsoft, Amazon, Google) and then there are going to be 5000 me too companies.

Look at stocks as if you’re buying part of a company because that’s what you’re actually doing. Look at stocks as if you’re a billionaire buying an entire company. Do you think it would be smart to buy the Bitcoin company? Do you think it would be smart to buy Dogecoin?

shutterstock_1027270051.jpg

Warren Buffet made his money by looking at stocks as equity in companies he was buying. It's ironic that that’s what stocks really are. So when buying a stock you need to ask yourself “would I buy this company?” or on a micro level “Would i buy/use this product?” Again, if you always bought stocks in the products you were using and dumped them as you stopped using the products, you would be very very rich.

Im sure most of you used AOL around 1995. Then stopped around 2005.
Screen Shot 2018-09-02 at 7.19.38 PM.png

I’m sure many of you bought Dells in the 90’s. Then stopped in the mid 2000’s
1371662382271.png

So which cryptotechnologies should you invest in? Simple.... which cryptotechnologies are you using. What cryptotechnologies are your friends using. What cryptotechnologies are your friends recommending. If you look at things that way, you can’t go wrong.
 
Last edited:
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DrWumbo

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yea except Amazon used to be sh*t.. imo one of the main reasons for their popularity is the fact that eBay started putting profits before people and sank... but before that eBay was way ahead of Amazon

Listen, here’s a good rule of thumb that will money in stocks... When you start using a new product, buy a little stock.

In other words, buy stocks in products people are using. If you’re using a product, chances are other people are using them.

Buy stocks in companies who makes products who you and your friends buy. When you and your friends buy other products, put the stock elsewhere. If you do that, statistically you’ll make bank. Pay attention to your emotions. Which products emotionally compel you to buy.

A companies stock prices directly correlates with how much people are using their products. Lets take Apple. They announced the first iPod in 2001. The first iPhone in 2007. The iPad and iPhone 4 in 2010

View attachment 21290

Imagine if all the people when they bought their first iPhone (lets say in 2010 or w/e) bought stock in Apple. All the people who started using Amazon bought Amazon stock.

All the people who started using AOL bought AOL stock when they started to use it, and dumped it as they stopped using it. Bought MySpace stock when they started using MySpace, but started dumping MySpace stock as they started to slow their usage. Then bought Facebook stock at the same time.

Should you buy Bitcoin? well do you think that people are going to start using bitcoin more? Then buy Bitcoin.

You need to look at the Macro picture. Not the little bumps in the market. Stocks rise (mostly) because a company is doing well. A company does well because it puts out good products and services. If you look at it like that, you won’t get caught up in the BS trends and bubbles.

What do you think @ApparentHorizon

I mean blockchain is going to get adopted. Massively. There’s almost no question. Blockchain is here to stay. It’s a good technology. Which blockchain companies specifically? Im not sure. Yea there’s going to be a bubble, but there’s also going to be real value there. Key is grabbing the really value creators and ignoring the ‘meekest too’ companies. If you wanna cash our real quick... buy the real valuable ones, then get out before the bubble hits. But keep in mind it’s a dishonest way of doing business. That money had to come from somewhere. All that money you’re making is going to come out of the pockets of some dad who didn’t know what he was doing and just wanted to make some money getting in on the hype. But if you wanna make some quick money at someone else’s expense.. sh*t.. go for it.

It’s going to be the same as the tech bubble. There are going to be real players and innovators (Microsoft, Amazon, Google) and then there are going to be 5000 me too companies.

Look at stocks as if you’re buying part of a company because that’s what you’re actually doing. Look at stocks as if you’re a billionaire buying an entire company. Do you think it would be smart to buy the Bitcoin company? Do you think it would be smart to buy Dogecoin?

View attachment 21289

Warren Buffet made his money by looking at stocks as equity in companies he was buying. It's ironic that that’s what stocks really are. So when buying a stock you need to ask yourself “would I buy this company?” or on a micro level “Would i buy/use this product?” Again, if you always bought stocks in the products you were using and dumped them as you stopped using the products, you would be very very rich.

Im sure most of you used AOL around 1995. Then stopped around 2005.
View attachment 21293

I’m sure many of you bought Dells in the 90’s. Then stopped in the mid 2000’s
View attachment 21291

So which cryptotechnologies should you invest in? Simple.... which cryptotechnologies are you using. What cryptotechnologies are your friends using. What cryptotechnologies are your friends recommending. If you look at things that way, you can’t go wrong.
Awesome response! As I've said before, acknowledging the bubble and the potential companies to bring real world value is what you need to ride the wave up and get out of the way before it pops. I don't really agree with the statement talking about it being a dishonest way of making money. All investing is speculative, some more than others. You shouldn't invest money that you aren't afraid to lose, known as Risk Capital. Yes, the bubble gets fed by people being uneducated and throwing money in, but there's real uses for Blockchain and some companies implementing it. I'll invest in it and pull out when the time seems right, because why leave my money in before it crashes, right?

I personally follow a handful of projects, like Ontology. Delivering real world solutions to real world problems that I can see myself benefitting from. Too many people get caught up in "flashy" projects trying to utilize the name Blockchain to implement a solution that isn't needed. A useful way to judge good potential investments is looking at the mission of the project and asking "is this possible WITHOUT Blockchain?" If it is, then it isn't worth your time.

The Amazon reference can be worked to any tech company during that time that survived and still rose (eBay included). It shows that the real companies providing value will survive and continue on. It's our job to identify those companies.

Thanks again for contributing to the thread!
 

ApparentHorizon

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I mostly trade so I can't add much.

Warren Buffet made his money by looking at stocks as equity in companies he was buying. It's ironic that that’s what stocks really are. So when buying a stock you need to ask yourself “would I buy this company?” or on a micro level “Would i buy/use this product?” Again, if you always bought stocks in the products you were using and dumped them as you stopped using the products, you would be very very rich.
It would be hard to apply Buffetts strategy to crypto.

You can take points out, like mass appeal and name recognition.

But the biggest hurdle is the lack of history in the crypto market. As well as the blatant, unregulated, manipulation.

Thought I agree on utility vs whatever garbage other ICOs are peddling.
 

ChrisV

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Awesome response! As I've said before, acknowledging the bubble and the potential companies to bring real world value is what you need to ride the wave up and get out of the way before it pops. I don't really agree with the statement talking about it being a dishonest way of making money. All investing is speculative, some more than others. You shouldn't invest money that you aren't afraid to lose, known as Risk Capital. Yes, the bubble gets fed by people being uneducated and throwing money in, but there's real uses for Blockchain and some companies implementing it. I'll invest in it and pull out when the time seems right, because why leave my money in before it crashes, right?

I personally follow a handful of projects, like Ontology. Delivering real world solutions to real world problems that I can see myself benefitting from. Too many people get caught up in "flashy" projects trying to utilize the name Blockchain to implement a solution that isn't needed. A useful way to judge good potential investments is looking at the mission of the project and asking "is this possible WITHOUT Blockchain?" If it is, then it isn't worth your time.

The Amazon reference can be worked to any tech company during that time that survived and still rose (eBay included). It shows that the real companies providing value will survive and continue on. It's our job to identify those companies.

Thanks again for contributing to the thread!
Okay.. here’s my philosophy on building wealth and making money... Lets say I have a cheeseburger. You want that cheeseburger. I say “I will give you that cheeseburger for $3” You agree to that price

In this instance:

You decide you want the cheeseburger more than you want the $3

I decide that i want the $3 more the I want the cheeseburger

By completing this trade, we have created a win-win situation. Both parties are better off having agreed to the transaction.

I think that good trades are win-win.

The other situation is not win-win. It is win-lose.

I win he loses. Yes, it is due to his stupidity, but someone else stupidity isn’t an excuse.

I can sell people iPad boxes filled with rocks and say their loss was due to ignorance and stupidity.

It gets a little murky because you’re not being blatantly dishonest, but you are making money due to someone else pain.
 
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DrWumbo

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Okay.. here’s my philosophy on building wealth and making money... Lets say I have a cheeseburger. You want that cheeseburger. I say “I will give you that cheeseburger for $3” You agree to that price

In this instance:

You decide you want the cheeseburger more than you want the $3

I decide that i want the $3 more the I want the cheeseburger

By completing this trade, we have created a win-win situation. Both parties are better off having agreed to the transaction.

I think that good trades are win-win.

The other situation is not win-win. It is win-lose.

I win he loses. Yes, it is due to his stupidity, but someone else stupidity isn’t an excuse.

I can sell people iPad boxes filled with rocks and say their loss was due to ignorance and stupidity.

It gets a little murky because you’re not being blatantly dishonest, but you are making money due to someone else pain.
I can see your reasoning there. But then, what is the point of investing to begin with, even in companies like Apple, Amazon etc? They need money for expansion, I have capital they can use, and I can profit from that. If there is an incoming collapse that I can predict, it would be foolish for me to leave my money in to get decimated, so I would withdraw. When the time is right, I can put it back in. It is a win-win in that scenario as well for the company and myself.

The example of the iPad is just a scamming scenario. By investing for a speculative return on any type of asset, I'm not going out and scamming people in any sense. If the price for the asset goes up for any reason, that's awesome. Whenever there are red flags, either in the company performing poorly or the boom-bust cycle every market experiences, I will obviously withdraw my money
 

ChrisV

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I can see your reasoning there. But then, what is the point of investing to begin with, even in companies like Apple, Amazon etc? They need money for expansion, I have capital they can use, and I can profit from that. If there is an incoming collapse that I can predict, it would be foolish for me to leave my money in to get decimated, so I would withdraw. When the time is right, I can put it back in. It is a win-win in that scenario as well for the company and myself.

The example of the iPad is just a scamming scenario. By investing for a speculative return on any type of asset, I'm not going out and scamming people in any sense. If the price for the asset goes up for any reason, that's awesome. Whenever there are red flags, either in the company performing poorly or the boom-bust cycle every market experiences, I will obviously withdraw my money
Well there’s difference between investing in a legitimate company for those reasons (expansion) and something you know to be a bubble.

The analogy I’m drawing is if you invested in bitcoin knowing it was speculative bubble and then withdrew at just the right tome, making money.

I mean if someone did it I wouldn’t care. There are different levels of immorality. Scamming someone out of an iPad is like 70/100 on the scale of evil. Investing in a speculative bubble is like 2/100 lol....so minor n to worth mentioning. I mean it’s not a big deal, but I still would feel like a dick. That money has to come from somewhere, even if he is a ‘sucker.’

And the reason I say this is all morality is based on the ideas of win/lose, win/win, and lose/win situations.

Theft? You lose, I win. Rape? She loses, I win. Murder? Well no one wins, but the victim loses.

Those things are considered immoral.

If I donate money I lose, they win. If i volunteer, I lose (time,) they win

Those things are considered selfless and altruistic.

Investing in a speculative bubble.. i mean I don’t give a shit lol.. I wouldn’t judge or even care. i just would rather not do it myself. I’m not adding anything of value of the world so I don't feel right taking.
 

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