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HOT TOPIC Why I despise Pickup Artistry, and how to have a fulfilling sex life.

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Real Deal Denver

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When you’re secure attachment with genuine confidence, you just rock up to a chick, make it obvious you’re trying to take her home with you, and 9 times out of 10, she will. And it will be based on who you are. None of this cocky/funny body language bullshit.. none of this silly ‘hard to get’ nonsense. She’s there trying to meet someone to go home with. It’s the entire reason that bars and clubs exist.
And while we are simplifying things, for the benefit of the young males here, let me explain how the above statement works in the real world.

Maybe some young males out there think rocking up to some chick is a good ploy. Here's some news for you; computer dating fast forwards past this crap and gets to the nitty-gritty. Women understand this, and they don't want to waste their time with some guy with too much testosterone, or too many narcissistic tendencies. You can love how great you are when you go to the gym and watch yourself do every single curl in the floor to ceiling mirrors, as you sculpt your magnificent physique to match your solid gold irresistible celebrity worthy personality. That never gets old, does it?

If the "chicks" go home with you 9 out of 10 times, then you have certainly won a great reward, haven't you? You now have a loose woman that went out that night to find some loose guy, so they could both be loose and have a real good time together. If that's as deep as your relationships are, then go ahead and indulge.

And closely related to that is this; "she's there to meet someone to go home with." No - she's playing a game, perhaps the best or only way she knows how. What does she want then?

Women use sex to get a relationship. Men use a relationship to get sex. That's as basic and primal as it gets.

Got that now? I can make it a lot more complicated if that's what you really want. But do we have to?

I don't have a PhD in anything. Too bad, because if I did, everyone would believe me.

So how do I know that I'm right? Decades of experience, and learning through observation - and surprisingly, learning a lot from several women that I was involved with in very deep relationships.

I have women that I've dated that I did not have sex with, because sex sex sex just wasn't in the top five list of what was important. I'm very very close friends with all of them to this day. I would say that I could, if we were both single, propose to them over the phone and they would accept. How's that for results? Who cares about scoring a one night stand by rocking up to some chick? I have women that will commit their LIVES to being my partner, lover, and best friend. And, as much as it hurts me to say this - it's not because of my stud qualities, good looks, or charming personality.

Hopefully. Hopefully, this will provide a ray of light for those that are surrounded by the hype of how to rock up to some chick - and instead learn to be a caring man of strength, character, wisdom, and devoted love. EVERY woman wants a man like that. Looks and bedroom abilities? On the list - but way down on the list.

Just for fun, I've asked MANY women that I know that if Tom Cruise walked in the door, and they had to choose to go out with him or me, who would they choose? Hold on. Almost all of them chose me. I asked why and they told me that the number one person in Tom's life would be Tom, whereas the number one person in my life would be THEM. Take that Tom!

By the way, I'm not a ten. I'm not even a 9 and a half. I consider myself a 6 or 7 maybe, on a good day, based on just looks and personality. I laugh at all the idiots that have blinders on that THINK they can, and that they deserve, a ten... Keep dreaming boys. But I DO beat the "ten men" day in and day out - every day of the week. Brad Pitt - Tom Cruise - bring em on.

So much more to say here. I should write the no-nonsense book of how to "not rock up to a chick" and instead how to get more happiness than you ever hoped for or imagined was possible.

Out ~
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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i don't think so.

i have been studying social engineering for 10 years. this is the worst time ever for harmony between men and women in the western world.

harmony is perfect balance between yin and yang. this is not the case at all in western societies .

and i won't explain the roots of problems because of that rule from the 48 laws of power " law 38 : think as you like but behave like others ".



i can't go against shared beliefs in this forum or society. i have to respect people's beliefs whether they are true or false because i will be punished like every guy who speaks above the crowd.



but i can point at material for people who want to work in order to know the truth and stop being pawns

View attachment 25677




quotation :

"The political elite are members of the class of people who are incapable of accurately understanding, by themselves, the complex "unseen environment" wherein the public affairs of the modern state occur; thus, Lippmann proposes that a professional, "specialized class" collect and analyze data, and present their conclusions to the society's decision makers, who, in their turn, use the "art of persuasion" to inform the public about the decisions and circumstances affecting them.[2]

Public Opinion proposes that the increased power of propaganda and the specialized knowledge required for effective political decisions have rendered the traditional notion of democracy impossible "




famous case study :


View: https://youtu.be/b7XbrYkf4Z8




quotation :

"This excerpt from Adam Curtis' documentary "Century of the Self" produced in 2002 for BBC illustrates how Edward Bernays, the founder of the field of public relations, manipulated the masses into considering that the idea of women smoking must be associated with that of freedom. The background mechanism is being explained very clearly, and Edward Bernays himself, in an interview filmed in 1991 admits to what public relations really are at the origins. "




.
[/
Dude. Share your opinion. I wanna hear it.
 
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ChrisV

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quotation :
"The political elite are members of the class of people who are incapable of accurately understanding, by themselves, the complex "unseen environment" wherein the public affairs of the modern state occur; thus, Lippmann proposes that a professional, "specialized class" collect and analyze data, and present their conclusions to the society's decision makers, who, in their turn, use the "art of persuasion" to inform the public about the decisions and circumstances affecting them.[2]
This is kind of a conspiracy theorist way of looking at it. This is part of what I do working in Data Analytics. We don't manipulate the masses so much as analyze data to find trends so that policy-makers can make more informed decisions. In general its a good system, and most problems arise when we deviate from that system.
 
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ChrisV

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i have that Denver guy on ignore... he literally writes the most batshit insane posts.. the only reason i saw what he wrote was because your reply with his quoted message got delivered to my email. i honestly think he's drunk half the time he's on here.

in regard to the message you originally quoted... LMFAO
 
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ChrisV

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Maybe some young males out there think rocking up to some chick is a good ploy. Here's some news for you; computer dating fast forwards past this crap and gets to the nitty-gritty. Women understand this, and they don't want to waste their time with some guy with too much testosterone, or too many narcissistic tendencies. You can love how great you are when you go to the gym and watch yourself do every single curl in the floor to ceiling mirrors, as you sculpt your magnificent physique to match your solid gold irresistible celebrity worthy personality. That never gets old, does it?

If the "chicks" go home with you 9 out of 10 times, then you have certainly won a great reward, haven't you? You now have a loose woman that went out that night to find some loose guy, so they could both be loose and have a real good time together. If that's as deep as your relationships are, then go ahead and indulge.
How much did you drink before writing this? I want an honest answer.

I don't understand why you reply to my threads. I have you on ignore, but I undid it temporarily just because I was trying to figure out what dumb shit people were replying to, and of course you never fail to provide a brain aneurism.

Get this through your head: Just because a woman is looking for casual sex doesn't mean she's 'loose,' and this type of slut-shaming needs to go back to the stone age where it belongs. Almost every girl does it at some points in her life, but they have to lie about it because of judgmental drunken dumbasses like you calling them 'loose'. THIS JUST IN: WOMEN HAVE SEX DRIVES TOO. Yea maybe in 1942 women only used sex as a means of getting a guy into a relationship, but it's 2019 and we have birth control and women use Tinder (umm, a hookup app?) and actually statistics show that women are in fact becoming more forward than men sexually (oh yea, but that doesn't matter to you because you don't believe in statistics.) The whole #MeToo stuff has made men so timid that women have to take matters into their own hands. I've noticed that women are more sexually assertive than I've ever seen. Because now if they're not giving clear sexual signals, they risk losing the guy.

And women don't want a guy with too much testosterone? Testosterone is directly correlated with mating success in basically every animal, including humans.




Oh but then again, you don't believe in research either. You believe whatever you feel like believing.

I would say that I could, if we were both single, propose to them over the phone and they would accept. How's that for results?
Oh wow! Yes, your hypothetical predictions definitely qualify as 'results.'

"I could totally call up NASA right now and get a job if I wanted... how's that for results?"

Just for fun, I've asked MANY women that I know that if Tom Cruise walked in the door, and they had to choose to go out with him or me, who would they choose? Hold on. Almost all of them chose me. I asked why and they told me that the number one person in Tom's life would be Tom, whereas the number one person in my life would be THEM. Take that Tom!

By the way, I'm not a ten. I'm not even a 9 and a half. I consider myself a 6 or 7 maybe, on a good day, based on just looks and personality. I laugh at all the idiots that have blinders on that THINK they can, and that they deserve, a ten... Keep dreaming boys. But I DO beat the "ten men" day in and day out - every day of the week. Brad Pitt - Tom Cruise - bring em on.
Lmfao... you're every type of delusional if you believe them.

And closely related to that is this; "she's there to meet someone to go home with." No - she's playing a game, perhaps the best or only way she knows how. What does she want then?

Women use sex to get a relationship. Men use a relationship to get sex. That's as basic and primal as it gets.
Delusional. You think that people go to clubs to find Mr. Right? No, they're looking for Mr. Right-Now. Again, in general, because you should never assume why someone is out without talking to them. But clubs generally exist for hookups. I know so many guys who have gone to a club, met a chick, taken her home and then were like "i gave her my number and she never called me.. wtf" ... "Bro, she used you for sex you naive twit"

I don't have a PhD in anything.
You don't? Jeez, I could have sworn you were straight out of Oxford.

And, as much as it hurts me to say this - it's not because of my stud qualities, good looks, or charming personality.
That's for sure

No one said that looking for short term sex was the ultimate path to happiness. The purpose of that paragraph to contrast it with PUA methods. I don't even know where the notion of that is even implied. In fact, the opposite was kind of the message and I specifically said that it can be a path to emptiness.

Now if you would kindly go away. My weakness is responding to trolls.
 

bizkitgto

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Get this through your head: Just because a woman is looking for casual sex doesn't mean she's 'loose,' and this type of slut-shaming needs to go back to the stone age where it belongs. Almost every girl does it at some points in her life, but they have to lie about it because of judgmental drunken dumbasses like you calling them 'loose'. THIS JUST IN: WOMEN HAVE SEX DRIVES TOO.
You need to make the distinction between women who want the odd hook-up, and those that f*ck anything that moves. If I found out the girl I was dating had slept with 100 guys I wouldn't want to continue the relationship, I'd be okay with having a casual relationship with her but not a serious one. I don't think I'd be able to trust someone like that, and most guys I know feel this way. This is where things start to get murky and people violently disagree.
 
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ChrisV

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women who want the odd hook-up, and those that f*ck anything that moves
agree. but i think that men tho f--- anything that moves are just as bad.

i think the point here is we should be hold both sexes to the same standards.. i mean come on.. it's 2019
 

bizkitgto

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agree. but i think that men tho f--- anything that moves are just as bad.

i think the point here is we should be hold both sexes to the same standards.. i mean come on.. it's 2019
Men and women are very different, often opposites, thus we have different needs and standards. I think men above all else desire trust. Men fear women cheating. Trust matters more for men than women, and that's why men don't want to be in relationships with women that sleep around lot - it's hard to trust someone like that. I'm not sure what women desire over trust, because women seem to want men that other women want.

Here's the paradox. Women can get laid whenever they want, it's easy for them, that's why women that sleep around are called *easy* or *sluts*. Men don't desire these kind women for relationships, and women often slut shame them (my guess is women slut shame because they don't trust these women and fear they'll sleep with their man, women slut shame way more than men). For men, it's not easy to get laid. That's why guys who do it regularly are called playboys (think James Bond), they're celebrated, and the kind of guys that can do this easily are chased by women, and men want to be them. That's the duality of men and women, the yin and yang. This isn't politically correct to say, but we all know it's true.
 
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Brewmacker

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I was going to post this in the “Men’s Room” forum, but decided against it because I want women to be included as well.

While this isn't business related, I’ve been noticing a lot of this “Pickup Artist” philosophy creeping in on the forums as of late and I have to admit I’m a little disappointed in it.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no issue with casual sex. When I’m single I do the same thing. It’s whatever. Go get a new girl every night. Whatever you want. I really genuinely have no issue with it.

What I do have an issue with is the ways they go about it. For those that don’t know what “Pickup Artists” teach.. it’s essentially stuff like “Be cocky and funny” (a certain brand of humor where you bust a girls balls while acting like you’re totally ‘the shit.’) Advice like: “Don’t act too needy,” “Be mysterious,” “be unpredictable,” “don’t text her back too quickly” … essentially addressing symptoms of low self-esteem while not addressing the self-esteem itself.

But you see the Pickup Artist mentality on reddit and forums. A guy comes on the forum and says "there's this girl i really like.. what should I do?" And he’s relentlessly made fun of. The guys chime in, tell him to stop being a little bitch, and diagnose him with ‘oneitus.’


View attachment 25600




In their view, liking one girl is a disease, and if you go and f— 10 girls, you’ll realize how ‘unspecial’ the first girl was. Make no mistake, this is pure psychopathic behavior. Literally. I have a friend who is a diagnosed sociopath, and he does things like this. The Pickup Artist community is literally trying to mold psychopaths.

Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way. You should learn to love each and every one of them, rather than listening to some idiots trying to tell you that they’re all disposable f*ckdolls. Again, there’s nothing wrong with having sex with them, but the mentality promotes treating them as objects rather than real unique people with thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams and desires. This is the psychopathic part.

And don’t get it twisted. These Pickup Artists don’t really care about the sex. If they just wanted sex, there are much easier and less time-consuming ways to go about it. Just get a prostitute. Or get a girlfriend. But they don’t just want the sex. They want the ego validation. They want to earn the sex. Actually earning the sex shows they’re good enough to ‘get her.’ If he can get he attention of the hottest girl in the room, he’s finally ‘good enough.’ He’s finally one of the cool guys. But this feeling of validation is short lived, and it won’t be long until he’s out looking for another girl to validate him.

And every night they’re out trying to go out to get their more validation. If they fail with one girl they will spiral and get depressed until they get another girl who does validate them. They want new ones all the time, because there’s no validation in the ones you’ve already had. Where’s the challenge there?

It’s no different than a crack-cocaine addiction. A crack addict acts the same way. They go out every night trying to score a hit, and if they can’t get it, they spiral into depression.

And to be clear, it’s not just men that are the issue. There are just as many female Narcissist as well. So yes, there are Female Pickup Artists. Women just go about it differently. They get all dolled up to go out to the club, look as sexually enticing as possible and take a guy home with them. Similarly, these women aren’t so much after the sex as they are looking for the same thing the men are: Ego Validation. Feeling desirable. Getting all dolled up, get tons of attention at the bar, and take a guy home with them is all validation that they’re good enough. But similar to the men, they never exposed the ‘real her’ to that person. The makeup, the low-cut dress, the sexy heels… it’s just as much of a facade as the man who feigns a ‘cocky/funny’ demeanor and fake confident body language in order to take the girl home with him.

On the male end, all of this ‘Pickup Artistry” stuff is learning to pretend to be a confident guy. Pretending to be a leader. Taking confident body language, and confident voice tones, all the while refusing to expose how you really feel. Why? Deep down, they don’t like themselves. And again, it’s the same with women. They won't expose themselves becasue they don't like who they are. I knew this girl in High School who was so deeply insecure she wouldn’t leave the house without perfectly doing her makeup. She wouldn’t smoke a bowl with friends without doing her makeup first. She wanted no-one to see what she really looked like. And she wasn’t ugly by any stretch of the imagination. She just thought she was. And I think it’s a perfect mirror image of the Pickup Artist facade.

Listen, I’ve been there. I’ve been at the point where I always needed to show up in the nicest car, always had to look perfect, always had to be dressed perfect, always had to have the flyest chick on my arm… and of course, I could never have the same one for too long.. I wanted people to know I had a constant, fresh supply of pretty girls. Why? Pure validation. I mean if I pulled up in a normal car, with an average looking girl I couldn’t rub it in people’s faces how awesome I was. It was no different from the girl who couldn’t go to the deli without spending 20 minutes on her makeup. And it’s a horrid way to live. Like I said, it’s no different from a drug addiction. That’s why Pride is listed as one of the 7 deadly sins along with greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. Aside from wrath and sloth, ALL 7 of those are addictive behaviors. Pride is just as much of an addiction as the others.

So what am i saying here? Am I saying that casual sex is wrong? Am I saying to not do it? Am I saying to just settle for an average life eating Chinese food out of the carton with a fat wife who doesn’t shave her armpits. No, not at all. I like pretty girls and nice things as much a the next guy. Men will always like pretty girls and nice things. It's literally built into our DNA. Again, what I’m warning against is the way these guys go about it: through manipulation and denial of who they are.

The pickup ‘industry’ preys on needy guys, and tries to teach them to act in a way that doesn’t seem needy. But it’s not genuine. They’re still left with the same insecure feelings and emptiness that you were before. They’ve just learned to manipulate women better, and for a few hours they get some very brief relief from that emptiness.

So what’s the solution? Simple. Rather than trying to pretend to be confident and non-needy, actually learn to be confident and non-needy. Actually develop yourself at the core so you actually are the cool person these PUA guys are trying to get you to pretend to be.

Rather than acting like you’re ‘not needy’ take care of the psychological roots of neediness. In psychology, attachment styles are broken into 4 categories.

anxious-preoccupied (needy)​
dismissive-avoidant​
fearful-avoidant​
secure (confident)​

If you want fulfilling relationships where you can present who you really are and still be accepted for it, I suggest on working on developing a secure attachment style.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-nPJbTgTs


Getting to the point of of developing a secure attachment style often involves grappling with potentially deep psychological issues, but it’s really the only viable option. Besides the fact that manipulation is just plain wrong and psychopathic, it’s dangerous. Putting on a facade is no basis to meet a woman that might potentially be your wife one day. It’s like building a house on quicksand. Not only will the home likely crumble, but you will be in that home when it does finally collapse, putting yourself and everyone involved in harms way. And if you end up having children, they will be in harms way too. This may sound like hyperbole, but ask anyone who’s gone through a divorce how absolutely devastating it is to everyone involved.

When you’re secure attachment with genuine confidence, you just rock up to a chick, make it obvious you’re trying to take her home with you, and 9 times out of 10, she will. And it will be based on who you are. None of this cocky/funny body language bullshit.. none of this silly ‘hard to get’ nonsense. She’s there trying to meet someone to go home with. It’s the entire reason that bars and clubs exist.

If you like a girl for more than something casual. you tell her ‘hey I’m really intrigued by you.. maybe you’d like to go out later in the week and get to know each other?’ No games. No bullshit. You just put it out there and let her take the offer. And again, it will be based on who you are. It's a home built on a solid foundation.

The key is not to act like somebody else to, but to actually become your best self. And by being your best self you will be naturally attractive to women or men without having to act like someone else, and you’ll be significantly more attractive than those sleazy Pickup Gurus.
I agree with you that pick up artistry in the old sense is disgusting with negging women and all that. Since the beginning of this year I have been studying Game. My curiosity peaked after reading the Game (N. Strauss), I then read his follow up book "the truth" and realized how f*cked up he was inside.

For me after a long term relationship was a complete newbie again. While searching follow up videos of Niel Strauss on youTube, i came a across RSD (Real Social Dynamics).

RSD Max - The Natural
I specifically resonated with RSD Max as he is from Austria & I really liked his energy. He boosted me away from depression a number of times along this road so far

RSD Max focuses on "Natural Game". This is completely different from the standard old PUA style.
From a guys point of view Max is all about how to:
  • Take Action,
  • Own your own inhibitions & mistakes,
  • Get out of your head,
  • Set clearly defined boundaries with people,
  • Accept rejection,
  • Value your self before every thing else (therefore no validation seeking)
  • How these behaviors moves you towards the alpha side of male characteristics.
  • Etc.
The aforementioned points may come naturally to you experienced guys in the fast lane as I can see how these traits would be shaped by, and benefit you in, the business world.

Trust me when I say, quite shamefully actually, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"
It woke me the heck up to social dynamics and taking control of my own destiny.

He of course teaches a lot about female psychology. In a respectful way and not by manipulating them, for example he teaches
how to resonate with the opposite sex in a positive & fun way.
  • traits women find fun in a guy,
  • how to make women feel safe in your company,
  • how women like you stand behind the boundaries you set (i.e. no "nice guy" behaviors)
  • how and when to compliment women on things they already know or without being creepy,
  • what women actually mean with body language.
  • how to give her the feeling that she is chasing you when you coming from a position of abundance
Again :) ! Trust me when I say, quite shamefully, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"

The reason I am here in this forum is due to and RSD Max video where he listed of the most life changing books of his life. He gave MJ de Marco an unbelievably good shout out for 'Unscripted'. I immediately downloaded it and here I am today :)

I like RSD Max, I love his respect for women and I like his energy, and his push towards self reflection. I like him as a digital friend only. I will never hit on a girl in his style, it is just not in my character.

The Natural Lifestyles
I started following the teachings of James Marsh (the natural lifestyles). These guys in the end were my heros. Just chilled out guys focused on day game.

Their method: Girls want to be approached by guys. Simple. It shows the woman you have the courage to be a man (even if you are visibly shitting yourself) and it shows you are not like the 99% who are sat at home swiping on tinder or drunk in a bar.

There approach technique: Take time to get out of your head, approach, fail, assess, try again. Approach, succeed, start up conversation about the first thing that pops into your head, immediately be clear with your intent, intentionally use the silence as tension in your conversation, how to build on this tension and release on it when necessary. Quickly dissipating tension is nice guy pleasing method and it doesn't drive the emotional connection.

Conclusion to OP
My point is, your title drew me in because I completely disagree with you when it comes to Natural Game.

These guys are pick-up artists, yes. It is their life and their business. Your confidence, resilience to rejection and awareness of other people etc. are possibly assets that have been gained from your experience in business and you can use when you are single. I think that is great and obviously can carry though into your sex life.
Remember 95% of the guys wnating to learn pickup who are not like you, are bitches to the system, working 9-5 job and they have no idea how to do any of this. I was that chode! Actually I still kinda am, but at least I am aware that I need to work on it now and I spend more time learning the skills to pick up business than to pick up girls.

You have the right of free speech to or to blurt what ever you want in a title and paint Pick Up Artistry with one big fat brush & say openly that you despise it. It generates a healthy discussion here and I love that.

I have given you some good references for "positive game", that has set me on this journey and lead me here to this forum today. I do not agree with every word that comes out of their mouths, naturally. They are only teachers of social dynamics and cannot be right all the time.
For all those Nice Guys out there, or people who are depressed, fed up, lacking confidence, these guys can help you.
 

ExaltedLife

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there is a big market for dating advice and seduction

famous entrepreneur Eben Pagan won thanks to the seduction market

View attachment 25607

View attachment 25608


so you guys are saying that this is " bad ". everyone is unique .


but the market says "this is a good thing". millions of guys are buying products

so who is right ? you or the market ?

we are on the business forum but you are saying that the markets are wrong.

there is a problem


.
There are markets for methamphetamine and heroin and human trafficking too.

"What some people choose to buy" is not a proper standard of right and wrong. Money is not everything.
 

ExaltedLife

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FYI: Guy93777 is the formerly banned user GMS17D.

Anyway, just because there is a market for something doesn't make it right.

There's a market for cocaine and sex trafficking ... does that make it OK too?
LOL looks like you got there first. My post was almost identical
 

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let me share my opinions about several relevant issues.

I do not believe in “be yourself” BS in anything important. You cannot be yourself if you do not like result and you take the field seriously. You fake it until you make it. You fake it until you make it. You are not funny enough go memorize twenty jokes before your date while you are trying to develop your sense of humor in the long run. It just irritates me and make my blood boil when someone throws out a “be yourself” advice that is VERY destructive. Be WHATEVER it takes to get WHATEVER you want.

Come on you never “be yourself” in an interview. You never “be yourself” when you are making a business presentation to your client. Why “be yourself” in front the girl you like and you are trying to impress. It is so hypocritical. You do whatever it takes to control the result to maximize the success rate.

What I like about PUA is that while we disagree on tactics and strategic issues we share the SAME VALUE. That is why I do still maintain respect for the PUA community- do whatever it takes, be it training and faking to get what you want.

Red-pill and men going away are largely women hating nonsense that is camouflaged under some useful advice and genuine truth. Yes I get that. Female nature is different and some will screw men just like there are selfish men who will do the same to women. Yes I understand that divorce court will tear some men apart unfairly so think twice about settling down. But women hating is stupid because if you look at the overall dynamic of affairs men still are the more privileged sex. If a man is unhappy with his sex life, relationship or marriage his problem is not about women his problem is about other men. I repeat his problem is about other men because ultimately mating is about competition for scarce resources of good quality. Do you think for a second Donald Trump the richest and the most powerful gets upset about women’s hypergamy??? If you have women issue it is because some other men have more resources and means than you. That should be your focus! I don't have enough food to eat while rich people are having feast...therefore food is evil as they only cater to the rich.. you see how stupid that attitude is? It is far more logical to trigger a ring wing reaction- playing within the rules of the capitalistic order to make more money (self improvement) or a left wing reaction -political solution to forcefully share (rob?) the wealthy and ultimately reproductive resources will be also distributed in a more egalitarian manner. Any choice of the two makes more sense than women hating.
 

Kevin88660

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I'm not surprised men are flocking to PUA/Game type stuff they find on the internet, it's because they have no where else to go or turn to. The core problem in my opinion is men don't understand women, especially young men. Guys will often ask girls for help or their opinion, only to watch women go and do the complete opposite of what they say. This frustrates men, especially young guys because they are doing what they think is right, only to watch the girl of their desires routinely going out with *Bad Boys*, getting hurt, over and over - hoping, expecting her to realize he is the guy of her dreams. But it never happens, and this is how Nice Guys^(TM) are born. Nice Guys repress so much anger and emotion over the years that it leads to a life of *incel* or *Forever Alone*. We've seen this stuff manifest in various growing communities online like: MGTOW, Incel, Red Pill, etc. There's a lot of salt in there, mostly from Nice Guys who don't get it, but there's also a lot of hurt guys in there as well (divorce, cheating, etc).

I expect PUA to lose relevance, people aren't going to bars and clubs like they used to in the past. OLD and Tinder are taking over, we're seeing lower rates of marriage as *hook-ups* and FWB's become more common. Will this work in the long run? Probably not. We've all seen the report 30% of the men aged 18-30 aren't getting any sex (in the last year), and that number has grown steadily for the last ten years where the women's number has been unchanged. So what's happening?

I think this goes back to the root cause: men have nowhere to go to learn about women. And with the rise in things like social media, the internet, video games, etc guys will choose to retreat into these virtual worlds and porn, rather than pursue women because of a few bad experiences. Women aren't exactly kind when they eject men, so I can't blame them for retreating like this. The problem today is too many men are doing this, and at the same time you have the media going on a full anti-male tirade labeling all men as rapists, misogynists, over-privileged etc (remember the famous Gillette ad?), this further angers a lot of these guys. So we have this situation in the gender war where men and women are more divided than ever, and men don't really understand women all too well, and women on the other hand are proving to not understand men.
I see a far bigger problem.

Today’s men are not that interested in women any more. That is a bigger problem.

There are many causes.

1) Old institutions are not relevant any more. It is only for the last two hundred years in the west that people marry for love. Marriage has always been a union if families for the political elites and business continuation for the average class. If you are a male peasant you need more labor to grow food. You marry a “good girl” to produce babies literally. Marrying for love was seen as “crazy” for thousands of years. In the 19th century in the west people could make a decent living by themselves in industrial jobs and marriage was no longer strictly a mean for business continuation. This is when people marry for love. The golden period of “traditional marriage” was in the 1950s when a man in factory could earn enough to make his wife a housewife and enjoy a good living. Before that women also worked in low skilled vocations. The following development is the history as we know it. Women are economically independent of men and will not take shit from men. Thats why you have single and divorced women who have chosen that. People today can live fantastic live as individuals and will not tolerate the other for the sake of having a union. People are just getting more selfish, be it men or women.

2) Sex is good but so are many other stuffs. The boomers experienced the sexual revolution and the good and bad that came along with it. Millienials are different. They are so many digital stimulation out there that boys are no longer that crazy about sex any more.

3) Millennial boys are more passive and socially inept. Self-explanatory. What do you expect from a generation that grow up with facebook, iphone and instal-grams. They suck at face to face communication and are less willing to talk to girls. Today’s bad boys are not really bad...they cannot even fight. I suspect they have lower sperm count and lower testosterone.

PUA is dying as girls do not go to bars anymore. That is partly true. Young boys today do not even do day games anymore. People who tried games ten years ago have retired and there is no nee blood. Do not expect today’s boys to approach a girl. They cannot even talk to people they already know and they prefer to text.

4) Millennials boys and girls are more geeky and intellectual kind... these people tend to be less active in relationships and intimacy.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I agree with you that pick up artistry in the old sense is disgusting with negging women and all that. Since the beginning of this year I have been studying Game. My curiosity peaked after reading the Game (N. Strauss), I then read his follow up book "the truth" and realized how f*cked up he was inside.

For me after a long term relationship was a complete newbie again. While searching follow up videos of Niel Strauss on youTube, i came a across RSD (Real Social Dynamics).

RSD Max - The Natural
I specifically resonated with RSD Max as he is from Austria & I really liked his energy. He boosted me away from depression a number of times along this road so far

RSD Max focuses on "Natural Game". This is completely different from the standard old PUA style.
From a guys point of view Max is all about how to:
  • Take Action,
  • Own your own inhibitions & mistakes,
  • Get out of your head,
  • Set clearly defined boundaries with people,
  • Accept rejection,
  • Value your self before every thing else (therefore no validation seeking)
  • How these behaviors moves you towards the alpha side of male characteristics.
  • Etc.
The aforementioned points may come naturally to you experienced guys in the fast lane as I can see how these traits would be shaped by, and benefit you in, the business world.

Trust me when I say, quite shamefully actually, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"
It woke me the heck up to social dynamics and taking control of my own destiny.

He of course teaches a lot about female psychology. In a respectful way and not by manipulating them, for example he teaches
how to resonate with the opposite sex in a positive & fun way.
  • traits women find fun in a guy,
  • how to make women feel safe in your company,
  • how women like you stand behind the boundaries you set (i.e. no "nice guy" behaviors)
  • how and when to compliment women on things they already know or without being creepy,
  • what women actually mean with body language.
  • how to give her the feeling that she is chasing you when you coming from a position of abundance
Again :) ! Trust me when I say, quite shamefully, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"

The reason I am here in this forum is due to and RSD Max video where he listed of the most life changing books of his life. He gave MJ de Marco an unbelievably good shout out for 'Unscripted'. I immediately downloaded it and here I am today :)

I like RSD Max, I love his respect for women and I like his energy, and his push towards self reflection. I like him as a digital friend only. I will never hit on a girl in his style, it is just not in my character.

The Natural Lifestyles
I started following the teachings of James Marsh (the natural lifestyles). These guys in the end were my heros. Just chilled out guys focused on day game.

Their method: Girls want to be approached by guys. Simple. It shows the woman you have the courage to be a man (even if you are visibly shitting yourself) and it shows you are not like the 99% who are sat at home swiping on tinder or drunk in a bar.

There approach technique: Take time to get out of your head, approach, fail, assess, try again. Approach, succeed, start up conversation about the first thing that pops into your head, immediately be clear with your intent, intentionally use the silence as tension in your conversation, how to build on this tension and release on it when necessary. Quickly dissipating tension is nice guy pleasing method and it doesn't drive the emotional connection.

Conclusion to OP
My point is, your title drew me in because I completely disagree with you when it comes to Natural Game.

These guys are pick-up artists, yes. It is their life and their business. Your confidence, resilience to rejection and awareness of other people etc. are possibly assets that have been gained from your experience in business and you can use when you are single. I think that is great and obviously can carry though into your sex life.
Remember 95% of the guys wnating to learn pickup who are not like you, are bitches to the system, working 9-5 job and they have no idea how to do any of this. I was that chode! Actually I still kinda am, but at least I am aware that I need to work on it now and I spend more time learning the skills to pick up business than to pick up girls.

You have the right of free speech to or to blurt what ever you want in a title and paint Pick Up Artistry with one big fat brush & say openly that you despise it. It generates a healthy discussion here and I love that.

I have given you some good references for "positive game", that has set me on this journey and lead me here to this forum today. I do not agree with every word that comes out of their mouths, naturally. They are only teachers of social dynamics and cannot be right all the time.
For all those Nice Guys out there, or people who are depressed, fed up, lacking confidence, these guys can help you.
I hadn’t heard of any of the blogs or podcasts like RSD until this thread. I couldn’t care less really.. BUT I tend to judge leaders by the quality of their followers.

If you’re a good representation of an RSD fan or James Marsh fan then Im thinking more guys should listen to them. I liked every sentence you wrote dude.

Thank you for balancing out the convo.
 
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ChrisV

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For men, it's not easy to get laid. That's why guys who do it regularly are called playboys (think James Bond), they're celebrated, and the kind of guys that can do this easily are chased by women, and men want to be them.
While I agree in part, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Look at Marilyn Monroe. She's the female equivalent of Hugh Hefner or James Bond. Seductive women are often as revered as seductive men.

Marilyn Monroe banged everyone.. from like 6 the Kennedies, to Marlon Brando, to screenwriters, to mob bosses. Women look up to Marilyn Monroe as much as men look up to Hugh Hefner. Women have Marilyn Monroe posters on their wall, post Marilyn Monroe quotes on their Instageam. Femme Fatales are often almost as revered as their seductive male counterparts.

But we need to make a distinction between what people (men and women) want in the short term, vs what they want in the long term, because often it's very opposite. This is why Kennedy never married Marilyn Monroe, but instead chose Jackie O. It's also why women don't want to marry a James Bond type, but will have an affair with one.

Men don't desire these kind women for relationships, and women often slut shame them (my guess is women slut shame because they don't trust these women and fear they'll sleep with their man, women slut shame way more than men)
But for relationships, women also avoid men who sleep around. When men get into relationships, they don’t want women who have had a long history… but women are generally the same. Women don’t want relationships with guys who have nailed every girl in town.

Again we need to make a distinction between what people want short term, vs long term, because it's not the same. In general, short-term people want sex appeal. Long-term people want trust. And a little sex appeal.

I agree with you that pick up artistry in the old sense is disgusting with negging women and all that. Since the beginning of this year I have been studying Game. My curiosity peaked after reading the Game (N. Strauss), I then read his follow up book "the truth" and realized how f*cked up he was inside.

For me after a long term relationship was a complete newbie again. While searching follow up videos of Niel Strauss on youTube, i came a across RSD (Real Social Dynamics).

RSD Max - The Natural
I specifically resonated with RSD Max as he is from Austria & I really liked his energy. He boosted me away from depression a number of times along this road so far

RSD Max focuses on "Natural Game". This is completely different from the standard old PUA style.
From a guys point of view Max is all about how to:
  • Take Action,
  • Own your own inhibitions & mistakes,
  • Get out of your head,
  • Set clearly defined boundaries with people,
  • Accept rejection,
  • Value your self before every thing else (therefore no validation seeking)
  • How these behaviors moves you towards the alpha side of male characteristics.
  • Etc.
The aforementioned points may come naturally to you experienced guys in the fast lane as I can see how these traits would be shaped by, and benefit you in, the business world.

Trust me when I say, quite shamefully actually, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"
It woke me the heck up to social dynamics and taking control of my own destiny.

He of course teaches a lot about female psychology. In a respectful way and not by manipulating them, for example he teaches
how to resonate with the opposite sex in a positive & fun way.
  • traits women find fun in a guy,
  • how to make women feel safe in your company,
  • how women like you stand behind the boundaries you set (i.e. no "nice guy" behaviors)
  • how and when to compliment women on things they already know or without being creepy,
  • what women actually mean with body language.
  • how to give her the feeling that she is chasing you when you coming from a position of abundance
Again :) ! Trust me when I say, quite shamefully, "This Shit Was Completely New to Me!"

The reason I am here in this forum is due to and RSD Max video where he listed of the most life changing books of his life. He gave MJ de Marco an unbelievably good shout out for 'Unscripted'. I immediately downloaded it and here I am today :)

I like RSD Max, I love his respect for women and I like his energy, and his push towards self reflection. I like him as a digital friend only. I will never hit on a girl in his style, it is just not in my character.

The Natural Lifestyles
I started following the teachings of James Marsh (the natural lifestyles). These guys in the end were my heros. Just chilled out guys focused on day game.

Their method: Girls want to be approached by guys. Simple. It shows the woman you have the courage to be a man (even if you are visibly shitting yourself) and it shows you are not like the 99% who are sat at home swiping on tinder or drunk in a bar.

There approach technique: Take time to get out of your head, approach, fail, assess, try again. Approach, succeed, start up conversation about the first thing that pops into your head, immediately be clear with your intent, intentionally use the silence as tension in your conversation, how to build on this tension and release on it when necessary. Quickly dissipating tension is nice guy pleasing method and it doesn't drive the emotional connection.

Conclusion to OP
My point is, your title drew me in because I completely disagree with you when it comes to Natural Game.

These guys are pick-up artists, yes. It is their life and their business. Your confidence, resilience to rejection and awareness of other people etc. are possibly assets that have been gained from your experience in business and you can use when you are single. I think that is great and obviously can carry though into your sex life.
Remember 95% of the guys wnating to learn pickup who are not like you, are bitches to the system, working 9-5 job and they have no idea how to do any of this. I was that chode! Actually I still kinda am, but at least I am aware that I need to work on it now and I spend more time learning the skills to pick up business than to pick up girls.

You have the right of free speech to or to blurt what ever you want in a title and paint Pick Up Artistry with one big fat brush & say openly that you despise it. It generates a healthy discussion here and I love that.

I have given you some good references for "positive game", that has set me on this journey and lead me here to this forum today. I do not agree with every word that comes out of their mouths, naturally. They are only teachers of social dynamics and cannot be right all the time.
For all those Nice Guys out there, or people who are depressed, fed up, lacking confidence, these guys can help you.
I hadn’t heard of any of the blogs or podcasts like RSD until this thread. I couldn’t care less really.. BUT I tend to judge leaders by the quality of their followers.

If you’re a good representation of an RSD fan or James Marsh fan then Im thinking more guys should listen to them. I liked every sentence you wrote dude.

Thank you for balancing out the convo.
Yes, I said earlier in the thread that my criticism doesn't extent to those RSD guys. From what I've seen they're really good guys just focused on being the best men they can be. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

LOL looks like you got there first. My post was almost identical
Lol, I did the same exact thing. Posted then realized MJ got to it before me.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I used to have a dear friend who was quite unattractive. She’s small, thin, and her jaw structure is very masculine. She reads romance novels voraciously (she used to supply me like a crack dealer, lmfao). She owns her three bedroom 2,500 sq ft home, lives simply, and hasn’t gone on even one date in eight years.

She asked me one day in tears, “is it because I’m ugly??” I held her and said no, of course not.

Everyone wants to find someone amazing who likes them for them. But it’s not in the cards for everybody. That needs to be ok too.

We fail ppl when we idolize “happy ever after” instead of valuing all the other extremely satisfying relationships a person can have.

The thing is.. I think she could have found a great guy, if she tried. But she didn’t. I had to force her to get on Eharmony and it was only years and years later that I learned (by finally being single myself and attempting to see if all the dating advice I’d been giving out actually worked) that EHarmony sucks a$$. Really. It’s horrible.

If you’re single and you’re only using one app or one advice book you need to rethink your approach. People aren’t going to show up at your doorstep and you’re never going to get any better at talking or dating or anything if you never actually do it.

This thread is mostly fascinating to me because everyone who comments is speaking from their own very obvious POV. If you’re an attractive person who has solid boundaries and healthy attachments this stuff seems superfluous but if you’ve struggled with physical beauty or boundary/trust issues then you know that ANYTHING can help you improve and you’re grateful for it. Humility is a very attractive quality but it is the most overlooked.

This thread helped me realize a bunch of cool stuff about why I tend to attract the types I do. But just now I realized.. I only ever make the first move through dating apps or chats; never in real life.

Dating is tough. Relationships are a crazy game of odds. There’s just no way to know who’s good at what until you date them for a while. I wish you could see somebody’s real stats like, tattooed on their arm immediately after meeting them but.. life isn’t like that. And thank God right?

We can all get better. Now isn’t set in stone.
 
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ChrisV

ChrisV

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I used to have a dear friend who was quite unattractive. She’s small, thin, and her jaw structure is very masculine. She reads romance novels voraciously (she used to supply me like a crack dealer, lmfao). She owns her three bedroom 2,500 sq ft home, lives simply, and hasn’t gone on even one date in eight years.

She asked me one day in tears, “is it because I’m ugly??” I held her and said no, of course not.
You know what though? I've found that genuinely 'ugly' women are relatively rare. Now I don't know your friend but if you've ever seen celebrities that people consider attractive without makeup, you'd realize much of what we see is not natural beauty.

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I think that most women that of mating age, can be reasonably attractive with some effort. Maintaining a healthy weight, having a good style, and intangible things like charm and class. Again, there are exceptions, but I find that but I find that most women can bet at least average by putting in some effort. Often better than average.

And to anyone who's dated pretty girls knows it's mostly smoke and mirrors too. They look like blobs while they sleep, they burp. Of course if you actually love someone, you don't particularly care... but my point here is being beautiful or handsome often has more to do with effort than genetics. Again, there are exceptions, but I think for the most part this is true. At the very least I believe there's a lot people can do to improve their sex appeal... male or female.

It also goes back to my initial post

Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way.
View: https://youtu.be/zrl0c8kl4J0?t=83
 

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Primeperiwinkle

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i judge leaders by their understanding of life , not by the guys that follow them.

truth does not depend on followers. it is complete by itself.


every guy on this forum should have a wall with leaders on it. i have one


here is Dan Pena's wall




View attachment 25726




View: https://youtu.be/nYadA3UY2CA
I meant like online guru types who say they’ve accomplished a lot of stuff that is really hard to prove. If their followers are assholes I’m less inclined to stick around and listen. I’m not talking about historical leaders whose work has been documented.
 

cv_guimara

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First off, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! I can see you've really put some effort into it to make sure that you were conveying the message in the best possible way.

As someone who's been involved with the pickup community for over seven years now(actively going out, running some local pickup groups and etc), i can say that a lot of what you've said is pretty spot on, specially when it comes to becoming an attractive guy instead of just acting like one.

With that being said, i wonder if you've actually went out with guys who are actually involved with the movement, who actually apply themselves on a regular basis into becoming a better person and more attractive to the opposite sex, and didnt only take into consideration Reddit trolls who are trying to look cool on the internet.

The reason to why i say that is because, despite most of the bad reputation and negative steryotipes associated with the community(such as manipulative freaks, ego maniacs and etc), 90% of the guys who i've personally met and hang out with in these 7 years who were associated with it(some whom i've become really close friends with), are actually the most positive, humble and genuine guys i have ever met. And not only that, but they are also genuine cool attractive guys who know what they are doing and build extremely positive experiences with people.

Of course, there is the whole aspect of pretending to be a bit more confident and some techniques designed to emulate certain characteristics and behaviors that the guy isn't accustomed to having it yet, but these are nothing more than training wheels used as a form of systematic desensitization for one to overcome his fears and build positive associations towards certain attractive traits that wouldn't previously be expressed due to emotional and/or psychological blockages (which judging by the massive transformation and results i've seen over the years, seem's to be an extremely effective approach).

The end goals is always to add value to people's lives and build great experiences with them, while overcoming your own internal blockages and becoming an extremely attractive person in the process.

Anyway, just wanted to share my perspective as an insider, in hopes to add a fresh perspective to the discussion.
 

Real Deal Denver

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3) Millennial boys are more passive and socially inept. Self-explanatory. What do you expect from a generation that grow up with facebook, iphone and instal-grams. They suck at face to face communication and are less willing to talk to girls. Today’s bad boys are not really bad...they cannot even fight. I suspect they have lower sperm count and lower testosterone.

PUA is dying as girls do not go to bars anymore. That is partly true. Young boys today do not even do day games anymore. People who tried games ten years ago have retired and there is no nee blood. Do not expect today’s boys to approach a girl. They cannot even talk to people they already know and they prefer to text.
Yep. Pitiful isn't it?

Marilyn Monroe banged everyone.. from like 6 the Kennedies, to Marlon Brando, to screenwriters, to mob bosses. Women look up to Marilyn Monroe as much as men look up to Hugh Hefner. Women have Marilyn Monroe posters on their wall, post Marilyn Monroe quotes on their Instageam. Femme Fatales are often almost as revered as their seductive male counterparts.
And then we have the self-help cases that believe they have it all figured out. Unfortunately, there is usually some dumb female around to stroke their ego, which confirms that they have finally "made it" and are a man. Male perhaps - but far from being a real man.

Sometimes, it gets worse.

Some go on to the next phase and self promote themselves to the status of guru. I included the first quote to illustrate the pathetic types that actually do need a guru. This further strokes the egos of the gurus, and they then launch a thread like this one to find some sense of self-importance.

Why do they do that? Ah, that's another fine topic for another thread.

Just wanted to point that out, for the benefit of Mr. Putz boy who has never been able to relate to any of my threads on a mature level that would be representative of what he proudly declares himself to be. If he is what he projects himself to be, he would not go off on such a childish rant every time we cross paths.

But he's not. It's rare that I couldn't make someone look so bad, even if I wanted to. But I don't, and I doubt I even could. They just take off all by themselves like a spinning roman candle firework display. Fine. Now we see the fury of self-promotion when one feels threatened...

Don't. be. that. guy.

I will go along with being a brain tumor that sprouted fingers - as I have been taunted in the past. I give points for originality! That's a good one and is in the top three. For our entertainment, please don't give up on trying to top that one - hard as it may be.

If people reading this really think that women look up to Marilyn Monroe, then you really need a lot more help than you can get here. To put her persona into a more modern day example, if women think Madonna has it "going on" - then those women really really need help. But if you're a weak type that admires someone that has the gusto to strut around like they own the world and can turn any man's head - then I can understand why someone might admire them.

For those pathetic weak types, I present to you - the pathetic disgusting hollow celebrities for your ongoing admiration - and the gurus of the internet to go along with them and explain why "rocking a chick" is so important.

The one thing the gurus and I do have in common, is we both like to see the results when they are called on the carpet for promoting their self-absorbed authority status.

After this runs it course, Chris will again leave for a while, only to return when he has gathered enough information to make a point on something so profound that very few are mature enough to understand. This is his feeding ground that keeps his ego growing.

For all the others that truly need help, don't listen to anyone telling you how to be Mr. Macho lady killer. It's an empty game that leads nowhere. You will find yourself in time. It is like a rose blooming. It can't be forced. Stop worrying about it and like who you see in the mirror - and realize that you may never ever be James Bond or Marilyn Monroe - and that can be a very very good thing indeed. It's far better to be genuine, even if you can't rock the chicks. Some slick gurus even go so far, as in this case, as to tell you how fake it is to be a PUA, and how empty of a life it is - and then in the next breath tell you how great it is to "rock the chicks" so they want to go home with you for sex. So sad. Say one - or the other. I'm saying one, and if anyone has been paying attention, I'm saying that women are much smarter than men, and they're on to this stupid charade boys go through. You'll know when you are genuine when you realize that it isn't even important to rock the chicks. Leave the Marilyn Monroes for the James Bonds because they deserve each other. And leave the gurus to stand there wondering why not everyone loves them as much as they love. Themselves.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

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bizkitgto

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While I agree in part, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Look at Marilyn Monroe. She's the female equivalent of Hugh Hefner or James Bond. Seductive women are often as revered as seductive men.

Marilyn Monroe banged everyone.. from like 6 the Kennedies, to Marlon Brando, to screenwriters, to mob bosses. Women look up to Marilyn Monroe as much as men look up to Hugh Hefner. Women have Marilyn Monroe posters on their wall, post Marilyn Monroe quotes on their Instageam. Femme Fatales are often almost as revered as their seductive male counterparts.

I'm going to have to disagree here. You can't compare a Hollywood bombshell celebrity like Marilyn Monroe to normal women. Marilyn Monroe was a sex symbol, she oozed sex. Take your average, off the street girl that dresses like a stripper, parties, f*cks 5 guys a week on Tinder....maybe she's a waitress, maybe she's a nurse, doesn't matter - girls aren't' looking up to her, girls don't wish they were here, girls will gossip behind her back, say mean stuff to her face when they're drunk and warn men about her. If you've ever spent time with a group of women over wine, you hear a lot of gossip, mean and vindictive shit said about their so called friends. Women don't want to be labelled as a *slut*, it's terrifying to them - it's almost the same as being labelled a *creep* for men.

Women and men are opposites: women get laid easily, men don't.
 

bizkitgto

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Sep 29, 2015
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I see a far bigger problem.

Today’s men are not that interested in women any more. That is a bigger problem.

There are many causes.

1) Old institutions are not relevant any more. It is only for the last two hundred years in the west that people marry for love. Marriage has always been a union if families for the political elites and business continuation for the average class. If you are a male peasant you need more labor to grow food. You marry a “good girl” to produce babies literally. Marrying for love was seen as “crazy” for thousands of years. In the 19th century in the west people could make a decent living by themselves in industrial jobs and marriage was no longer strictly a mean for business continuation. This is when people marry for love. The golden period of “traditional marriage” was in the 1950s when a man in factory could earn enough to make his wife a housewife and enjoy a good living. Before that women also worked in low skilled vocations. The following development is the history as we know it. Women are economically independent of men and will not take shit from men. Thats why you have single and divorced women who have chosen that. People today can live fantastic live as individuals and will not tolerate the other for the sake of having a union. People are just getting more selfish, be it men or women.

2) Sex is good but so are many other stuffs. The boomers experienced the sexual revolution and the good and bad that came along with it. Millienials are different. They are so many digital stimulation out there that boys are no longer that crazy about sex any more.

3) Millennial boys are more passive and socially inept. Self-explanatory. What do you expect from a generation that grow up with facebook, iphone and instal-grams. They suck at face to face communication and are less willing to talk to girls. Today’s bad boys are not really bad...they cannot even fight. I suspect they have lower sperm count and lower testosterone.

PUA is dying as girls do not go to bars anymore. That is partly true. Young boys today do not even do day games anymore. People who tried games ten years ago have retired and there is no nee blood. Do not expect today’s boys to approach a girl. They cannot even talk to people they already know and they prefer to text.

4) Millennials boys and girls are more geeky and intellectual kind... these people tend to be less active in relationships and intimacy.
One thing that has changed is porn. It's everywhere. And kids are watching it more than ever. Young boys have seen more naked women before they turn 15 than most adults have seen in a lifetime. What's weird about the world is as the porn-ification of society accelerates, the less and less sex men are having. We've all seen that study that found men between 18-30 are haven't the least amount of sex in history (see WaPo link below), with 30% of these men being sexless. Women are still getting laid though. I wonder why?

Tinder/Instagram make it easy for women to get lots of sexual attention, both wanted and unwanted. It's also why many men aren't getting any attention from these women, only the very top few are getting selected. so online dating won't work for most men...and as men learn this, they try to find other ways to meet women, that's where they will inevitably find things like PUA/Game, or just retreat into the land of porn, video games and drugs. Depression will follow as life loses meaning for many of these men.

As for the pussification of men in the millennial era (my generation), lower testosterone levels and sperm counts are part of the problem. It has been documented (see GQ link below), that sperm counts have been dropping every year since WW2, and kids born today have far less testosterone than their grandparents, and most healthy men in their 20s have the equivalent T levels as a 60 year old man. There is a fear that T levels will continue to drop at the current rate there will be point where men won't have enough testosterone to get an erection and impregnate women...and for those that can, their sperm counts will be too low for conception. This is called the ZERO SPERM level, where humanity will cease to exist (we will survive thanks to artificial inception). This is actually a very big problem, the causes are unknown, many link it to plastics and our sedentary modern environment.


 

DayIFly

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Is PUA still around? I was of the opinion that after burning through their specific target audience those scammers pivoted to the bigger more general evergreen markets of self-development / inner game / confidence / whatever peddling their stuff. If I remember correctly they imploded years ago, wasn't "The Game" published like more than a decade ago?
 

guy93777

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Is PUA still around? I was of the opinion that after burning through their specific target audience those scammers pivoted to the bigger more general evergreen markets of self-development / inner game / confidence / whatever peddling their stuff. If I remember correctly they imploded years ago, wasn't "The Game" published like more than a decade ago?

PUAs proved that people are predictable and we can build systems to manage them

don't tell me that everyone "is unique " or any BS like that , otherwise we could not build systems

for example , this system ( the mystery method ) has a conversion rate up to 25 % , which is unbelievable

1 girl out of 4 slept with the PUA .


do you know a lot of things in life with a 25 % conversion rate ?

i don't



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ChrisV

ChrisV

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Women and men are opposites: women get laid easily, men don't.
on average... yes. but if you zoom in it's a little more complicated... male mating seems to adhere to a pareto distribution, where the top 20% of guys get the bulk of the attention from women. and this isn't stuff i'm coming up with off the top of my head, or just personally witnessed... it's a well-studied phenomenon.

"Superstar effect" accrue to males in the top 5% of looks online (Hitsch et al., 2006)

P2kY3dyl.png.jpeg


i think that study is a bit of an anomaly... normally what we witness is around 80/20.

so on average, yes it's harder for men to get get sex. the bottom 80% at least. but for the top 20%? it's easy as f--- becasue they have literally every girl competing for them. so it's easy for women to get laid in general. most women can go out and grab a random guy and take him home. But they don't want that. They want the top dog (or at least one of the top dogs) And for that, they're competing for his attention. So in that sense, it's a lot harder for them to get the guys they actually want. Because the ones they actually want are usually busy with a more attractive female.

this applies to hookups only. I don't want to keep going off on tangents because the strategy for hookups is completely different from the strategy for monogamy. the strategy for monogamy is pretty much equal. roughly speaking: men who are 10's date women who are 10's.. men who are 3's date women who are 3's
 

Real Deal Denver

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I'm going to have to disagree here. You can't compare a Hollywood bombshell celebrity like Marilyn Monroe to normal women. Marilyn Monroe was a sex symbol, she oozed sex. Take your average, off the street girl that dresses like a stripper, parties, f*cks 5 guys a week on Tinder....maybe she's a waitress, maybe she's a nurse, doesn't matter - girls aren't' looking up to her, girls don't wish they were here, girls will gossip behind her back, say mean stuff to her face when they're drunk and warn men about her. If you've ever spent time with a group of women over wine, you hear a lot of gossip, mean and vindictive shit said about their so called friends. Women don't want to be labelled as a *slut*, it's terrifying to them - it's almost the same as being labelled a *creep* for men.

Women and men are opposites: women get laid easily, men don't.
And here is the lay up.
 
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