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HOT TOPIC Why I despise Pickup Artistry, and how to have a fulfilling sex life.

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ChrisV

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I was going to post this in the “Men’s Room” forum, but decided against it because I want women to be included as well.

While this isn't business related, I’ve been noticing a lot of this “Pickup Artist” philosophy creeping in on the forums as of late and I have to admit I’m a little disappointed in it.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no issue with casual sex. When I’m single I do the same thing. It’s whatever. Go get a new girl every night. Whatever you want. I really genuinely have no issue with it.

What I do have an issue with is the ways they go about it. For those that don’t know what “Pickup Artists” teach.. it’s essentially stuff like “Be cocky and funny” (a certain brand of humor where you bust a girls balls while acting like you’re totally ‘the shit.’) Advice like: “Don’t act too needy,” “Be mysterious,” “be unpredictable,” “don’t text her back too quickly” … essentially addressing symptoms of low self-esteem while not addressing the self-esteem itself.

But you see the Pickup Artist mentality on reddit and forums. A guy comes on the forum and says "there's this girl i really like.. what should I do?" And he’s relentlessly made fun of. The guys chime in, tell him to stop being a little bitch, and diagnose him with ‘oneitus.’


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In their view, liking one girl is a disease, and if you go and f— 10 girls, you’ll realize how ‘unspecial’ the first girl was. Make no mistake, this is pure psychopathic behavior. Literally. I have a friend who is a diagnosed sociopath, and he does things like this. The Pickup Artist community is literally trying to mold psychopaths.

Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way. You should learn to love each and every one of them, rather than listening to some idiots trying to tell you that they’re all disposable f*ckdolls. Again, there’s nothing wrong with having sex with them, but the mentality promotes treating them as objects rather than real unique people with thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams and desires. This is the psychopathic part.

And don’t get it twisted. These Pickup Artists don’t really care about the sex. If they just wanted sex, there are much easier and less time-consuming ways to go about it. Just get a prostitute. Or get a girlfriend. But they don’t just want the sex. They want the ego validation. They want to earn the sex. Actually earning the sex shows they’re good enough to ‘get her.’ If he can get he attention of the hottest girl in the room, he’s finally ‘good enough.’ He’s finally one of the cool guys. But this feeling of validation is short lived, and it won’t be long until he’s out looking for another girl to validate him.

And every night they’re out trying to go out to get their more validation. If they fail with one girl they will spiral and get depressed until they get another girl who does validate them. They want new ones all the time, because there’s no validation in the ones you’ve already had. Where’s the challenge there?

It’s no different than a crack-cocaine addiction. A crack addict acts the same way. They go out every night trying to score a hit, and if they can’t get it, they spiral into depression.

And to be clear, it’s not just men that are the issue. There are just as many female Narcissist as well. So yes, there are Female Pickup Artists. Women just go about it differently. They get all dolled up to go out to the club, look as sexually enticing as possible and take a guy home with them. Similarly, these women aren’t so much after the sex as they are looking for the same thing the men are: Ego Validation. Feeling desirable. Getting all dolled up, get tons of attention at the bar, and take a guy home with them is all validation that they’re good enough. But similar to the men, they never exposed the ‘real her’ to that person. The makeup, the low-cut dress, the sexy heels… it’s just as much of a facade as the man who feigns a ‘cocky/funny’ demeanor and fake confident body language in order to take the girl home with him.

On the male end, all of this ‘Pickup Artistry” stuff is learning to pretend to be a confident guy. Pretending to be a leader. Taking confident body language, and confident voice tones, all the while refusing to expose how you really feel. Why? Deep down, they don’t like themselves. And again, it’s the same with women. They won't expose themselves becasue they don't like who they are. I knew this girl in High School who was so deeply insecure she wouldn’t leave the house without perfectly doing her makeup. She wouldn’t smoke a bowl with friends without doing her makeup first. She wanted no-one to see what she really looked like. And she wasn’t ugly by any stretch of the imagination. She just thought she was. And I think it’s a perfect mirror image of the Pickup Artist facade.

Listen, I’ve been there. I’ve been at the point where I always needed to show up in the nicest car, always had to look perfect, always had to be dressed perfect, always had to have the flyest chick on my arm… and of course, I could never have the same one for too long.. I wanted people to know I had a constant, fresh supply of pretty girls. Why? Pure validation. I mean if I pulled up in a normal car, with an average looking girl I couldn’t rub it in people’s faces how awesome I was. It was no different from the girl who couldn’t go to the deli without spending 20 minutes on her makeup. And it’s a horrid way to live. Like I said, it’s no different from a drug addiction. That’s why Pride is listed as one of the 7 deadly sins along with greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. Aside from wrath and sloth, ALL 7 of those are addictive behaviors. Pride is just as much of an addiction as the others.

So what am i saying here? Am I saying that casual sex is wrong? Am I saying to not do it? Am I saying to just settle for an average life eating Chinese food out of the carton with a fat wife who doesn’t shave her armpits. No, not at all. I like pretty girls and nice things as much a the next guy. Men will always like pretty girls and nice things. It's literally built into our DNA. Again, what I’m warning against is the way these guys go about it: through manipulation and denial of who they are.

The pickup ‘industry’ preys on needy guys, and tries to teach them to act in a way that doesn’t seem needy. But it’s not genuine. They’re still left with the same insecure feelings and emptiness that you were before. They’ve just learned to manipulate women better, and for a few hours they get some very brief relief from that emptiness.

So what’s the solution? Simple. Rather than trying to pretend to be confident and non-needy, actually learn to be confident and non-needy. Actually develop yourself at the core so you actually are the cool person these PUA guys are trying to get you to pretend to be.

Rather than acting like you’re ‘not needy’ take care of the psychological roots of neediness. In psychology, attachment styles are broken into 4 categories.

anxious-preoccupied (needy)​
dismissive-avoidant​
fearful-avoidant​
secure (confident)​

If you want fulfilling relationships where you can present who you really are and still be accepted for it, I suggest on working on developing a secure attachment style.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-nPJbTgTs


Getting to the point of of developing a secure attachment style often involves grappling with potentially deep psychological issues, but it’s really the only viable option. Besides the fact that manipulation is just plain wrong and psychopathic, it’s dangerous. Putting on a facade is no basis to meet a woman that might potentially be your wife one day. It’s like building a house on quicksand. Not only will the home likely crumble, but you will be in that home when it does finally collapse, putting yourself and everyone involved in harms way. And if you end up having children, they will be in harms way too. This may sound like hyperbole, but ask anyone who’s gone through a divorce how absolutely devastating it is to everyone involved.

When you’re secure attachment with genuine confidence, you just rock up to a chick, make it obvious you’re trying to take her home with you, and 9 times out of 10, she will. And it will be based on who you are. None of this cocky/funny body language bullshit.. none of this silly ‘hard to get’ nonsense. She’s there trying to meet someone to go home with. It’s the entire reason that bars and clubs exist.

If you like a girl for more than something casual. you tell her ‘hey I’m really intrigued by you.. maybe you’d like to go out later in the week and get to know each other?’ No games. No bullshit. You just put it out there and let her take the offer. And again, it will be based on who you are. It's a home built on a solid foundation.

The key is not to act like somebody else to, but to actually become your best self. And by being your best self you will be naturally attractive to women or men without having to act like someone else, and you’ll be significantly more attractive than those sleazy Pickup Gurus.
 

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Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way. You should learn to love each and every one of them, rather than listening to some idiots trying to tell you that they’re all disposable f*ckdolls. Again, there’s nothing wrong with having sex with them, but the mentality promotes treating them as objects rather than real unique people with thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams and desires. This is the psychopathic part.
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Thank you Chris for diving into a subject I try to avoid here, and which was one of the impetuses for the private forums. Some of the objectification that occurs here from some of the young boys is utterly disturbing, and I generally consider myself a "red pill" type of person, but not in the PUA relationship sense. While it is minor, there is a negativity bias for this stuff kind of stuff when it comes to the forum... when one voices PUA sentiments, it generally casts a cloud over the forum and ruins it for the rest of us, the 95%.

For those who like to drop in such commentary, here's a reminder of the forum rules...

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ChrisV

ChrisV

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I wanted to add how to actually do this in practice because otherwise it's just more theory.

So how to actually become the confident, securely attached person we talked about? Again, I suggest getting in to see a good therapist that you get along with. Especially one that’s trained in CBT and IFS. Mechanics fix cars, electricians fix electricity, and therapists fix psyches. Low confidence is generally a symptom of beaten up psyches. Sure you can get some self-help books and figure it out yourself, but in my opinion your time is better spent just letting someone who’s done this their whole lives handle it.

But if you do chose to go the self-help route, make sure it’s written by an actual psychologist with a PhD. Not some shallow Law of Attraction or Positive Thinking gurus, because they can be just as bad as those pickup teachers. If anyone needs suggestions, I’d be more than happy to suggest some. Jay Earley is very good and his online therapy website is really great.

Also The Power of Now (Tolle) is a great book. Especially pay attention to the part where he talks about sheding light on the dark parts of your unconscious. But I still recommend a therapist on top of that.
 

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Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way. You should learn to love each and every one of them, rather than listening to some idiots trying to tell you that they’re all disposable f*ckdolls. Again, there’s nothing wrong with having sex with them, but the mentality promotes treating them as objects rather than real unique people with thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams and desires. This is the psychopathic part.
I have to agree. I had a one of these jerks give me three emails this morning with a lot of crap I really didn't want to hear, know, or participate. My answer was basically deletion from my existence of focus. Works both ways.
 

guy93777

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there is a big market for dating advice and seduction

famous entrepreneur Eben Pagan won thanks to the seduction market

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so you guys are saying that this is " bad ". everyone is unique .


but the market says "this is a good thing". millions of guys are buying products

so who is right ? you or the market ?

we are on the business forum but you are saying that the markets are wrong.

there is a problem


.
 

Yzn

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What did you expect from a society to become if all the decisions they make concerning eating, drinking, driving, dressing and interacting are decisions based on on what the ego wants?
 

MJ DeMarco

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so who is right ? you or the market ?
FYI: Guy93777 is the formerly banned user GMS17D.

Anyway, just because there is a market for something doesn't make it right.

There's a market for cocaine and sex trafficking ... does that make it OK too?
 
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ChrisV

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we are on the business forum but you are saying that the markets are wrong.
Millions of people buy Penis Pumps. Millions of people buy shiesty Real Estate seminars from infomercials. I'm not sure what that has to do with morality or efficacy. I never said there was no demand for it. I said much of it is sleazy.
 

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ChrisV

ChrisV

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FYI: Guy93777 is the formerly banned user GMS17D.

Anyway, just because there is a market for something doesn't make it right.

There's a market for cocaine and sex trafficking ... does that make it OK too?
Yea I figured it was him lol... i'd know those posts anywhere haha
 

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Great post @ChrisV. I steer clear of all that stuff. I find it distasteful in the same way people talk about “closing” prospects, or converting clicks into sales. They’re people, not clicks, prospects, or pieces of meat.

You know the easy way to get people to talk to you, be interested in you, and to buy from you?

Be someone people will talk to. Be someone people will be interested in. Be someone people will buy from.
 

NCNY

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The fear of rejection is what keeps people from asking women out, In my opinion everyone should look at the situation in two ways:

Best case scenario - You introduce yourself, she likes you and get a date.
Worst case scenario - She rejects you and you lost 2 minutes of your life and a small punch to the ego.

Literally there are 3 billion women aside from her.
I'd rather live with rejection than living with "What If".
 

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I enjoy the game of life. I enjoy the game of money, looks, dating, adventure, etc. That's how I look at it.

I have found that not looking at life like a game causes me to be unfocused and scattered. I waste time and become slightly depressed without moving forward. I'm sure it would become serious depression if it was ever left uncorrected for years.

For developing confidence and being secure in who you are...it has to come from somewhere. You don't just pick it up at the store on your way home. And you certainly don't get it by "just being" it. That's like saying you should make money by "just being rich...duh". That makes no sense.

If you feel that you are not enough, then you should do something about it. But you must DO something about it. You could grow a business, climb mountains, learn amazing skills, or enhance your social skills. I think figuring out the skills to attract women to you can help tremendously with that. I don't see how anyone could say otherwise. It doesn't make any sense to argue against that..unless you are lying or delusional. When you feel deep down that you can attract the opposite sex, and you DO actually get that validation, then it can be a kickstart to keep the engine running of your self belief for a long time.

For the long-term, confidence should actually be the norm. Because you should realize that we are all just idiots trying to figure things out. I'm not confident because I'm constantly validated, but because I know how everyone else is projecting such a false image of themselves 24/7/365 and we are all in the same boat. But a few years ago, I needed the validation to kickstart everything. Getting girls was definitely a part of that. I strongly recommend any young fellow's first "mission" is to better himself with the opposite sex as well as the gym and soaking up knowledge from other smart people. I would probably be safe in assuming a sizable portion of people who are good, honest, smart and successful people on this forum are people who at one time wanted to improve their dating life as well and spent at least a small amount of time learning some "pickup techniques".

Wanna know how I found this place at all? I was an insecure kid who found a blog written by a guy who probably wouldn't be all too welcome here. I found another blog and another one, read a book review, read a great book and ended up here, sharing my entrepreneurial journey and learning from other great people here and building relationships. It all kinda started because I wasn't all that great with girls at the time and wanted to be. That's a bit of an oversimplification and I likely would've found this place in one way or another, but that's just a small point.

So I enjoy treating life like a game. I think that's part of the "fire" inside of each man who desires more. Part of it means making money. Part of it means dating. Most of it comes down to playing the "game" that forces you to stay on your toes. I am the type of person who's enjoyment comes from the competition of everything. That's what gives it meaning. I like the competition of business. I like the competition of dating. I sometimes hate it, but that's just laziness talking. I think it all makes us sharper.

There's little charity in business and in dating. Businesses work or fail because of the market. Somebody can tell you all day that you have a good business idea but it only counts when they hand over their money. And girls can tell you you're a sweetie pie all day long, but the real truth comes out when it's time to see who goes home with who. That's why I like dating. There's no charity. It's brutal and competitive.
 
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ChrisV

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I enjoy the game of life. I enjoy the game of money, looks, dating, adventure, etc. That's how I look at it.

I have found that not looking at life like a game causes me to be unfocused and scattered. I waste time and become slightly depressed without moving forward. I'm sure it would become serious depression if it was ever left uncorrected for years.

For developing confidence and being secure in who you are...it has to come from somewhere. You don't just pick it up at the store on your way home. And you certainly don't get it by "just being" it. That's like saying you should make money by "just being rich...duh". That makes no sense.

If you feel that you are not enough, then you should do something about it. But you must DO something about it. You could grow a business, climb mountains, learn amazing skills, or enhance your social skills. I think figuring out the skills to attract women to you can help tremendously with that. I don't see how anyone could say otherwise. It doesn't make any sense to argue against that..unless you are lying or delusional. When you feel deep down that you can attract the opposite sex, and you DO actually get that validation, then it can be a kickstart to keep the engine running of your self belief for a long time.

For the long-term, confidence should actually be the norm. Because you should realize that we are all just idiots trying to figure things out. I'm not confident because I'm constantly validated, but because I know how everyone else is projecting such a false image of themselves 24/7/365 and we are all in the same boat. But a few years ago, I needed the validation to kickstart everything. Getting girls was definitely a part of that. I strongly recommend any young fellow's first "mission" is to better himself with the opposite sex as well as the gym and soaking up knowledge from other smart people. I would probably be safe in assuming a sizable portion of people who are good, honest, smart and successful people on this forum are people who at one time wanted to improve their dating life as well and spent at least a small amount of time learning some "pickup techniques".

Wanna know how I found this place at all? I was an insecure kid who found a blog written by a guy who probably wouldn't be all too welcome here. I found another blog and another one, read a book review, read a great book and ended up here, sharing my entrepreneurial journey and learning from other great people here and building relationships. It all kinda started because I wasn't all that great with girls at the time and wanted to be. That's a bit of an oversimplification and I likely would've found this place in one way or another, but that's just a small point.

So I enjoy treating life like a game. I think that's part of the "fire" inside of each man who desires more. Part of it means making money. Part of it means dating. Most of it comes down to playing the "game" that forces you to stay on your toes. I am the type of person who's enjoyment comes from the competition of everything. That's what gives it meaning. I like the competition of business. I like the competition of dating. I sometimes hate it, but that's just laziness talking. I think it all makes us sharper.

There's little charity in business and in dating. Businesses work or fail because of the market. Somebody can tell you all day that you have a good business idea but it only counts when they hand over their money. And girls can tell you you're a sweetie pie all day long, but the real truth comes out when it's time to see who goes home with who. That's why I like dating. There's no charity. It's brutal and competitive.
Fair enough counterpoint. But often the bullet-wounds that lead to insecurity in the first place need to be tended to, otherwise it's like covering it with bandages while still leaving the bullet. Sure, covering it with bandages is preferable to leaving it open, but getting the bullet tended to is the ideal solution.

But thinking about women as a skill.. I'm not too sure that's the only or ideal approach. Like, if you have natural confidence, you're just naturally attractive. There's not much skill to learn. Sure it works, but if any wounds are still in tact, people end up using material things to cover that up. It's how Narcissism develops.

Also, I'm not criticizing the entire dating advice community. Obviously it exists on the spectrum. But on the far end of the spectrum is pure psychopathy. And I mean that in a literal sense. Not everything is on that far end, but a good amount is.
 

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Agreed 100% my man.

True confidence, being genuine, being honest are all much simpler and better ways of ‘pickup’.

I like some of what Johnny says but to be honest you shouldn’t look at everything as a game. Always do your best and if you have insecurities try to fix them or work on them, like you said with Power of Now or therapy; do something to get better and live in the moment
 

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Fair enough counterpoint. But often the bullet-wounds that lead to insecurity in the first place need to be tended to, otherwise it's like covering it with bandages while still leaving the bullet. Sure, covering it with bandages is preferable to leaving it open, but getting the bullet tended to is the ideal solution.

But thinking about women as a skill.. I'm not too sure that's the only or ideal approach. Like, if you have natural confidence, you're just naturally attractive. There's not much skill to learn. Sure it works, but if any wounds are still in tact, people end up using material things to cover that up. It's how Narcissism develops.

Also, I'm not criticizing the entire dating advice community. Obviously it exists on the spectrum. But on the far end of the spectrum is pure psychopathy. And I mean that in a literal sense. Not everything is on that far end, but a good amount is.
I think we agree on a lot of it, and oftentimes we give the strongest examples and the strongest opinions when posting about it in order to have a strong effect and make a clear point. I do that too.

Also, confidence is a bit of the chicken or the egg situation. I think it’s a tough thing because it’s so much less tangible than acquiring money or other skills such as math and science. That’s why smart men often struggle with dating, because it’s less of a hard and fast rule and has to deal with human emotions which can frustrate people who love structure. I just don’t see it being practical to say “just BE confident” to people who have no idea what that means and can’t relate to it. I suggest guys still go out and become a bit of a player to acquire that validation at first.

Finally, I don’t judge myself. If my truth is that I want to go out and manipulate people then that’s what I’ll do. And I would expect lots and lots of people to hate me for it. If my truth is that I want to date one girl for years and love her totally then I’ll do that. But it all comes down to if you can live with people judging you or if you need everyone’s approval. I think you should live your truth and own it, and if that pisses people off, fine. Your life is yours and my life is mine. But that doesn’t mean people won’t criticize you. Either way I’m gonna do me.
 

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The whole Pickup Artist community seems like a sham to me. A bunch of grown (mostly) men following a script of pre-ordained lines and actions (talk about SCRIPTED), wearing uniforms basically and wasting their time on what might as well be considered a public performance. I don't care if you want to have an adventurous and active sex life so long as no one gets hurt. Go for it; I really don't care. The PUA world just rubs off as inauthentic, pathetic and wildly superfluous.
 
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ChrisV

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just don’t see it being practical to say “just BE confident” to people who have no idea what that means and can’t relate to it. I suggest guys still go out and become a bit of a player to acquire that validation at first.
Well that's why I wrote the second post.

Finally, I don’t judge myself. If my truth is that I want to go out and manipulate people then that’s what I’ll do.
But even moral issues aside, I simply don't see the point. Like... if you're a reasonably attractive guy girls are going to be attracted to you. Just ask her if she'd like to go home with you for god's sake. Maybe not that bluntly, but women literally go to bars and clubs to meet a guy for the night. I don't see the point in all the extra stuff. In the above video Jordan describes two modes of communication. The second one is just pure honesty. Just talking to a girl without hiding the fact that you'd like to take her home. I mean she knows anyway. She knows you're not talking to her because you're looking for a new fishing buddy to leave the bar and go out on the lake at 2 in the morning. She just wants you to chill out for 20 minutes or whatever amount of time, prove you're not some wackjob and then get on with the evening.
 

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Nope. This isn't "your truth" -- it's called being a psychopath. Stop trying to justify it.
I don't think that trying to manipulate people for personal gain is a hallmark of a psychopath. There are LOTS of people who spend a large portion of their time and energy trying to manipulate others -- politicians, people who work for advertising companies, employers, negotiators, etc.

If trying to manipulate people made you a psychopath, a large portion of the population would likely fit into that category.

Let me also add that I don't know too many people who don't try to manipulate others in some way, shape or form. I would argue that it's human nature and part of our natural instinct. @Johnny boy was just being honest about his doing it...
 

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The first post in this thread is Gold @ChrisV!

Similarly, these women aren’t so much after the sex as they are looking for the same thing the men are: Ego Validation. Feeling desirable.
She’s there trying to meet someone to go home with. It’s the entire reason that bars and clubs exist.
I will add a viewpoint that going out to a bar to be approached or meet someone to go home with is not the only reason a woman would be there.

Going home with a guy may be far from her mind when fulfilling a need for social interaction or quite literally spending time with friends.

In addition, Ego Validation can occur without being picked up.

In the video you posted, Jordan Peterson says, "The best way to deceive someone is to sort of tell them the truth." What an astute statement.

Also striking how often we see that at play within our own psyches and belief systems. The pros and cons are limitless.
 
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The first post in this thread is Gold @ChrisV!

I will add a viewpoint that going out to a bar to be approached or meet someone to go home with is not the only reason a woman would be there.
Fair enough. That was a bit of hyperbole on my part and you're 100% correct, and actually applies to clubs more than bars. People have all sorts of motivations for going to bars, but interacting with the opposite sex is a common one.
 

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FYI: Guy93777 is the formerly banned user GMS17D.

Anyway, just because there is a market for something doesn't make it right.

There's a market for cocaine and sex trafficking ... does that make it OK too?
Yeah...I noticed that as well...

Was about to ask about it.

The bolded sentences and Eben Pagan references got me thinking, ‘Now, where have I heard that before?’

Welcome back anyways, GMS17D.
Hope you are doing well.
 

Johnny boy

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I don't think that trying to manipulate people for personal gain is a hallmark of a psychopath. There are LOTS of people who spend a large portion of their time and energy trying to manipulate others -- politicians, people who work for advertising companies, employers, negotiators, etc.

If trying to manipulate people made you a psychopath, a large portion of the population would likely fit into that category.

Let me also add that I don't know too many people who don't try to manipulate others in some way, shape or form. I would argue that it's human nature and part of our natural instinct. @Johnny boy was just being honest about his doing it...
When did I say that’s what I did or have ever done?
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I was going to post this in the “Men’s Room” forum, but decided against it because I want women to be included as well.

While this isn't business related, I’ve been noticing a lot of this “Pickup Artist” philosophy creeping in on the forums as of late and I have to admit I’m a little disappointed in it.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no issue with casual sex. When I’m single I do the same thing. It’s whatever. Go get a new girl every night. Whatever you want. I really genuinely have no issue with it.

What I do have an issue with is the ways they go about it. For those that don’t know what “Pickup Artists” teach.. it’s essentially stuff like “Be cocky and funny” (a certain brand of humor where you bust a girls balls while acting like you’re totally ‘the shit.’) Advice like: “Don’t act too needy,” “Be mysterious,” “be unpredictable,” “don’t text her back too quickly” … essentially addressing symptoms of low self-esteem while not addressing the self-esteem itself.

But you see the Pickup Artist mentality on reddit and forums. A guy comes on the forum and says "there's this girl i really like.. what should I do?" And he’s relentlessly made fun of. The guys chime in, tell him to stop being a little bitch, and diagnose him with ‘oneitus.’


View attachment 25600




In their view, liking one girl is a disease, and if you go and f— 10 girls, you’ll realize how ‘unspecial’ the first girl was. Make no mistake, this is pure psychopathic behavior. Literally. I have a friend who is a diagnosed sociopath, and he does things like this. The Pickup Artist community is literally trying to mold psychopaths.

Every woman is special. They all have unique personalities and quirks and each one of them is interesting in their own way. You should learn to love each and every one of them, rather than listening to some idiots trying to tell you that they’re all disposable f*ckdolls. Again, there’s nothing wrong with having sex with them, but the mentality promotes treating them as objects rather than real unique people with thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams and desires. This is the psychopathic part.

And don’t get it twisted. These Pickup Artists don’t really care about the sex. If they just wanted sex, there are much easier and less time-consuming ways to go about it. Just get a prostitute. Or get a girlfriend. But they don’t just want the sex. They want the ego validation. They want to earn the sex. Actually earning the sex shows they’re good enough to ‘get her.’ If he can get he attention of the hottest girl in the room, he’s finally ‘good enough.’ He’s finally one of the cool guys. But this feeling of validation is short lived, and it won’t be long until he’s out looking for another girl to validate him.

And every night they’re out trying to go out to get their more validation. If they fail with one girl they will spiral and get depressed until they get another girl who does validate them. They want new ones all the time, because there’s no validation in the ones you’ve already had. Where’s the challenge there?

It’s no different than a crack-cocaine addiction. A crack addict acts the same way. They go out every night trying to score a hit, and if they can’t get it, they spiral into depression.

And to be clear, it’s not just men that are the issue. There are just as many female Narcissist as well. So yes, there are Female Pickup Artists. Women just go about it differently. They get all dolled up to go out to the club, look as sexually enticing as possible and take a guy home with them. Similarly, these women aren’t so much after the sex as they are looking for the same thing the men are: Ego Validation. Feeling desirable. Getting all dolled up, get tons of attention at the bar, and take a guy home with them is all validation that they’re good enough. But similar to the men, they never exposed the ‘real her’ to that person. The makeup, the low-cut dress, the sexy heels… it’s just as much of a facade as the man who feigns a ‘cocky/funny’ demeanor and fake confident body language in order to take the girl home with him.

On the male end, all of this ‘Pickup Artistry” stuff is learning to pretend to be a confident guy. Pretending to be a leader. Taking confident body language, and confident voice tones, all the while refusing to expose how you really feel. Why? Deep down, they don’t like themselves. And again, it’s the same with women. They won't expose themselves becasue they don't like who they are. I knew this girl in High School who was so deeply insecure she wouldn’t leave the house without perfectly doing her makeup. She wouldn’t smoke a bowl with friends without doing her makeup first. She wanted no-one to see what she really looked like. And she wasn’t ugly by any stretch of the imagination. She just thought she was. And I think it’s a perfect mirror image of the Pickup Artist facade.

Listen, I’ve been there. I’ve been at the point where I always needed to show up in the nicest car, always had to look perfect, always had to be dressed perfect, always had to have the flyest chick on my arm… and of course, I could never have the same one for too long.. I wanted people to know I had a constant, fresh supply of pretty girls. Why? Pure validation. I mean if I pulled up in a normal car, with an average looking girl I couldn’t rub it in people’s faces how awesome I was. It was no different from the girl who couldn’t go to the deli without spending 20 minutes on her makeup. And it’s a horrid way to live. Like I said, it’s no different from a drug addiction. That’s why Pride is listed as one of the 7 deadly sins along with greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. Aside from wrath and sloth, ALL 7 of those are addictive behaviors. Pride is just as much of an addiction as the others.

So what am i saying here? Am I saying that casual sex is wrong? Am I saying to not do it? Am I saying to just settle for an average life eating Chinese food out of the carton with a fat wife who doesn’t shave her armpits. No, not at all. I like pretty girls and nice things as much a the next guy. Men will always like pretty girls and nice things. It's literally built into our DNA. Again, what I’m warning against is the way these guys go about it: through manipulation and denial of who they are.

The pickup ‘industry’ preys on needy guys, and tries to teach them to act in a way that doesn’t seem needy. But it’s not genuine. They’re still left with the same insecure feelings and emptiness that you were before. They’ve just learned to manipulate women better, and for a few hours they get some very brief relief from that emptiness.

So what’s the solution? Simple. Rather than trying to pretend to be confident and non-needy, actually learn to be confident and non-needy. Actually develop yourself at the core so you actually are the cool person these PUA guys are trying to get you to pretend to be.

Rather than acting like you’re ‘not needy’ take care of the psychological roots of neediness. In psychology, attachment styles are broken into 4 categories.

anxious-preoccupied (needy)​
dismissive-avoidant​
fearful-avoidant​
secure (confident)​

If you want fulfilling relationships where you can present who you really are and still be accepted for it, I suggest on working on developing a secure attachment style.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-nPJbTgTs


Getting to the point of of developing a secure attachment style often involves grappling with potentially deep psychological issues, but it’s really the only viable option. Besides the fact that manipulation is just plain wrong and psychopathic, it’s dangerous. Putting on a facade is no basis to meet a woman that might potentially be your wife one day. It’s like building a house on quicksand. Not only will the home likely crumble, but you will be in that home when it does finally collapse, putting yourself and everyone involved in harms way. And if you end up having children, they will be in harms way too. This may sound like hyperbole, but ask anyone who’s gone through a divorce how absolutely devastating it is to everyone involved.

When you’re secure attachment with genuine confidence, you just rock up to a chick, make it obvious you’re trying to take her home with you, and 9 times out of 10, she will. And it will be based on who you are. None of this cocky/funny body language bullshit.. none of this silly ‘hard to get’ nonsense. She’s there trying to meet someone to go home with. It’s the entire reason that bars and clubs exist.

If you like a girl for more than something casual. you tell her ‘hey I’m really intrigued by you.. maybe you’d like to go out later in the week and get to know each other?’ No games. No bullshit. You just put it out there and let her take the offer. And again, it will be based on who you are. It's a home built on a solid foundation.

The key is not to act like somebody else to, but to actually become your best self. And by being your best self you will be naturally attractive to women or men without having to act like someone else, and you’ll be significantly more attractive than those sleazy Pickup Gurus.
I’m thankful you put this in the main area. It’s an extremely helpful thread for me personally.

I think it’s important to note that the unstable types are attracted and attractive to other unstable types.

In the video (which was phenomenally helpful as well) he said that Secure attachment ppl are not operating from a fear of losing the relationship. A secure type understands that they can weather the storm and handle being alone. They aren’t so much focused on whether they have “a connection” as much as they are valuing the parts of the connection they have. They have boundaries to know when to clip certain relationships out of their life.

In theory your advice about bettering one’s self is good but in reality becoming “your best self” is an impossible target.

You’re talking to a worldwide audience. Whose idea of best is actually best?

A guy sitting in his room doodling all day, staring at his own tiny pencil marks, will never become a master painter. He needs to experience great art, artists, and humble himself enough to accept criticism from those more experienced than himself.

Furthermore, he needs an object of study to aim for, an Ideal Image. If he’s looking within himself he’ll never find it. He needs to study his model or landscape or object from every angle. Finally, after many years of mimicking the best techniques he can finally add his own burgeoning creativity, a creativity that was formed because of his dedication to the work, ultimately making something that appeals to his refined character- his disciplined and educated self.

This strategy should be applied to every endeavor but absolutely MUST be applied to matters of character.

If we fail to surround ourselves with ppl who are Secure Attachment Types (even if/ ESPECIALLY if we aren’t quite there ourselves) we will have no clear conception of an Ideal Image.
 
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