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NOTABLE! Who is "They"? And Are They Credible?

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biophase

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You always need to question where your information comes from. This is something that you should always do when in a conversation, discussion or argument. By asking this question, you will learn if the information that you are getting can be trusted.

Here's what I mean. I was having this conversation with someone about a year ago and this person said, "how are your rentals doing in Chicago, I heard that rents are going down there."

Before I even answered his question about my rentals, I asked "Where did you hear that from?"

"Well, I was at a dinner and they were talking about it"
"Who is they?"
"Mikey's dad"
"Does his dad have any rental property in Chicago?"
"I don't know"
"So how does he know that rents are going down in Chicago?"

So this person just believed information that he heard at a dinner and passed it along to me. The reason I immediately questioned it was NOT because I didn't believe him. It was because I wanted more information. My rents have been going UP in Chicago. But that doesn't mean it's true for everywhere in the city. Rents could be going down in the west side, I don't have a property there.

This happens all the time and once you recognize it, it will make it hard to participate in certain conversations. You could be the party pooper in them. So maybe it's not proper to question sources of small talk during a dinner conversation.

But when you get into another setting, say you are talking to your mortgage broker, and they say something like "they said that rates might go up next week so you should lock it in today" You can definitely question them and say, "who is they?"

Don't take information at face value. Question it.

On the flipside, you don't want to be that guy either. I've caught myself talking about of my butt without facts to back it up. In fact, the following experience has stuck with me so much that I am always aware of it when I do and don't speak.

About 5 years ago a running back of the AZ Cardinals moved down the street from me. I would see him all the time when walking my dog. One day, I'm walking by and the Cards had just lost the game a few days ago. I said, "tough game Sunday." He said, yeah I don't know what's wrong with our offense.

Now normally, a standard dude response would be, "Yeah, {insert starting QB} sucks they should put in the {insert 2nd string QB}, they should run more on 1st down, or who calls a screen on 3rd and 10?"

I remember hesitating and thinking, this guy is on the team, who am I to tell him that they need to run more, or whatever. What if he asked me "why should we run more?" Would I have an answer to that question?

So I said, "I hope you turn it around next week." and he said, "I hope so too."
 

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Vigilante

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The older I get the more I want to listen and the less I want to speak. Unfortunately in my current capacity in my company, people (including investors) want me to speak. Listening is an art form.

I talked with someone last week who has had a couple of interviews with great companies, but never got the job offer. What we discovered together is that rather than listening to what the companies/interviewers wanted and giving them that, he tried to sell them on HIM. He needed to sell them on how he was the answer to what they needed, not just based on his resume but based on their opening.

Everyone's an expert in other peope's shoes. I go to people that are smarter than me like @LightHouse, @AllenCrawley, @Kung Fu Steve and a few others I am blessed to have in my rolodex, but their ROI on their time only makes sense if I listen to what they say with a receptive open mind. I don't know everything.

So many times, especially in a forum full of entrepreneurs, we're all "the smartest people in the room" except when we're not.

There's a lifetime of learning to do, and the older I get the more I realize how much I have left to learn. I suck at listening, but I can promise you with 100% certainty I would be more successful if I spoke less and listened more.
 

ChrisV

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Listen to this thread. This is in my opinion the most important thing on I’ve seen on here in a while and should be automatic GOLD.

Here’s what I do. Immediately after hearing "I heard that rents are going down there” I would just look it up on Google. “Chicago rental graph,” “Chicago rental price down,” “Chicago rental prices.” Man, I (personally) don’t even care if Mikeys dad has 30 rental properties, I want the data. We live in a day and age that you can check citations in seconds.

And I wouldn’t even use Google Google. I have a custom search engine that only searches highly reputable sites:

Search News based on Highly Factual Reporting

Skepticism is so important. People spout bullshit all day.

I’ll be back to this thread with more thoughts, but this is so important @biophase

+rep
 

Kung Fu Steve

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It's cosmically funny to me that someone overhears something and just because they have nothing to add to the conversation they say something like this...

And now that they've repeated it, it becomes a minor belief. When it becomes a minor belief their brain starts to look for justification. Then they start looking for all the reasons why it's true... and then they reaffirm their belief -- and before you know it...

They believe something so whole-heartedly that they don't even know where it came from!

I've got a weird sense of humor but that is just hilarious to me :rofl:
 

biggeemac

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Oh man....I hate "they". Its a pet peeve of mine. Lumping one person, or a group of persons into "they". I hear the word "they" in reference to many things. For example, the government....."they". When in fact, the government is "us".

I also hear "they" in reference to employers intentionally wanting employees to fail, or be poor.

I think the worst part is that when the word "they" is used, most people that say this have assigned a single collection of goals or objectives to "they", and its almost always insidious in nature.
 

The Abundant Man

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My Pastor went to a Church conference. One of the newer pastors was trans. He called the new pastor he/she. Everyone looked at him as if he killed someone. One of the pastors came up to him and said, "They prefer the word "they". So please call them "they"
 

amp0193

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I've gotten my wife to change opinions using this before.

I come at her belief from the point of trying to understand.

"I'm trying to learn more about X. You believe this, where did you read it?"

"Do you know of anything credible that backs this up, because I couldn't find anything when I was searching."


Her first reaction is to defend, sometimes lash out. But quietly, her belief weakens, if she isn't able to answer those questions for herself.
 

The Abundant Man

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I'm always challenging people's source of info and they absolutely hate it :rofl:
I'm going to write peer reviewed scientific journals with page long bibliographies for you
 

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Andy Black

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Thanks @biophase. A good reminder to question where things come from, and to not be that person too.

I do try and cite where I get quotes and ideas from. For one, i think it’s right to give credit, but it also allows people to make up their mind about that source too.
 

ChrisV

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My Pastor went to a Church conference. One of the newer pastors was trans. He called the new pastor he/she. Everyone looked at him as if he killed someone. One of the pastors came up to him and said, "They prefer the word "they". So please call them "they"
i can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.....
 

Xeon

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I'm always challenging people's source of info and they absolutely hate it :rofl:
No offense but personally, I find it extremely draining to deal with and talk to folks like this.
It's like, you constantly feel like you're in a court being cross-examined by lawyers.

In the presence of this type, everything you say must be backed by data, charts, graphs, figures, white papers, stats. It's tiring and un-natural in a convo IMO. Most people are not walking database machines and we don't carry these sort of data in our mind all the time where we can pull it out to prove and debate.

Just want to chill over tea/coffee/drinks, not engage in constant data challenges. :bored:
 

ChrisV

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You always need to question where your information comes from. This is something that you should always do when in a conversation, discussion or argument. By asking this question, you will learn if the information that you are getting can be trusted.

Here's what I mean. I was having this conversation with someone about a year ago and this person said, "how are your rentals doing in Chicago, I heard that rents are going down there."

Before I even answered his question about my rentals, I asked "Where did you hear that from?"

"Well, I was at a dinner and they were talking about it"
"Who is they?"
"Mikey's dad"
"Does his dad have any rental property in Chicago?"
"I don't know"
"So how does he know that rents are going down in Chicago?"
refs.jpg
 
Last edited:

LightHouse

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Such a great thread. I think it's a small piece of a larger process to always think a bit deeper about what you are filing in your head. Forming beliefs on bad data or something you overheard can be really detrimental in so many ways.

Although now im going to just put it in quotes everywhere because I think that's hilarious.

"They" said I'm the biggest they have ever seen. Couldn't tell you who they was though. :rofl:
 

ChrisV

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People should even take this a step further and take Poynter’s Fact Checking course. It’s the same course that all Snopes writers and I believe Fact-check.org are required to take. Snopes seems like a funny site, but they are actually some of the
Best, most serious fact checkers in the industry

http://www.newsu.org/courses/hands-on-fact-checking-short-course

I’ve taken it, and they even offer a certification for $99



Also taking some of the tests / programs on clearerthinking.org

There’s a test to see how susceptible
You are to Common Misconceptions and myths, Political Bias Test, Recognize Faulty Logic and courses to mitigate various cognitive biases

Fact checking - Wikipedia


Cognitive bias mitigation - Wikipedia





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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biophase

biophase

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No offense but personally, I find it extremely draining to deal with and talk to folks like this.
It's like, you constantly feel like you're in a court being cross-examined by lawyers.

In the presence of this type, everything you say must be backed by data, charts, graphs, figures, white papers, stats. It's tiring and un-natural in a convo IMO. Most people are not walking database machines and we don't carry these sort of data in our mind all the time where we can pull it out to prove and debate.

Just want to chill over tea/coffee/drinks, not engage in constant data challenges. :bored:
You don’t have to ask all the time. But keep it to yourself. You can research it later. Just don’t take it as fact right away.
 

MJ DeMarco

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"They" often represents "conventional wisdom" repeated without thought to where, how, or why it exists.

My favorite quote ...

upload_2018-10-16_12-0-23.png

Thread upgraded to NOTABLE and title modified!
 

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