Where do I even begin? - starving artist needs direction

[AndyW]

Ok, I've been thinking about posting here for a couple of days now and just trying to figure out if I have enough relevance to do so and hope that I don't waste anyone's time. So be gentle as I don't know all the etiquette yet!

I'm conscious of your time and patience, so will try my best to be concise, but the issue isn't too simple. I'll try to bullet point it. Here goes:

- I'm 36, living with mother, gave up shitty graphic design job in 2010 to fulfil my childhood dream of working in the entertainment industry's art department. Have savings to the tune of around £14k which I'm living off.

- Married, wife lives in Seattle, she's unemployed, currently in the process of visa application to get me over there.

- I have been studying digital illustration since 2010 ish and have some competence but not enough to land a decent job or get more than one small client job every 4-6 weeks. As my skill has grown, my income has dropped almost in proportion.

- At this rate, I have another 3-5 years of (self taught) art studies and living off other people/savings (which by then may be zero) before I gain solid skills. By that time I'll be around 40 years old and likely divorced as, since being married 3 years ago, my wife and I have been dirt poor, living off her (one) income and barely being able to afford a coffee.

So, questions. I almost need help forming a question I'm so lost. Bottom line is that I've been MISERABLE for the last five years and can't handle another five. I love doing my art work but I work 12 hours a day, no days off and to see my feedback loop be hovering around zero is killing me.

A question might be, how can I approach this issue and start making something scalable/time independent? Maybe my question would be, what would you do in my position to get on a trajectory of income and move into something non-linear, which is the danger of all freelancers.

Right, I'll stop here. Appreciate any advice. For all the internet marketers my site is stayinwonderland dot com which I designed myself (fwiw).

 

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[KennyJA]

Fiverr.com is good for freelancing. That place is business oriented and many customers look for services that help their business. Art work is big over there, I'm sure it can be successful for you. You charge 5 dollars for a basic service, and 5 extra for each service added on. Example:

>Art
>black and white for 5 dollars, 5 extra for color
>5 extra for 1 day delivery

I hope this helps you.

 

[AndyW]

lol. But seriously...

 

[KennyJA]

lol. But seriously...

Well then you're shit out of luck. Best to get used to being miserable unless you start selling art on the side. You know at places people often go to (Fiverr), because whatever it was that you're doing doesn't sound like it made your last 5 years so great.

 

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[dirk.wert.3]

Maybe try making a graphic ebook one chapter a week on the side.

 

[mws87]

Ok, I've been thinking about posting here for a couple of days now and just trying to figure out if I have enough relevance to do so and hope that I don't waste anyone's time. So be gentle as I don't know all the etiquette yet!

I'm conscious of your time and patience, so will try my best to be concise, but the issue isn't too simple. I'll try to bullet point it. Here goes:

- I'm 36, living with mother, gave up shitty graphic design job in 2010 to fulfil my childhood dream of working in the entertainment industry's art department. Have savings to the tune of around £14k which I'm living off.

- Married, wife lives in Seattle, she's unemployed, currently in the process of visa application to get me over there.

- I have been studying digital illustration since 2010 ish and have some competence but not enough to land a decent job or get more than one small client job every 4-6 weeks. As my skill has grown, my income has dropped almost in proportion.

- At this rate, I have another 3-5 years of (self taught) art studies and living off other people/savings (which by then may be zero) before I gain solid skills. By that time I'll be around 40 years old and likely divorced as, since being married 3 years ago, my wife and I have been dirt poor, living off her (one) income and barely being able to afford a coffee.

So, questions. I almost need help forming a question I'm so lost. Bottom line is that I've been MISERABLE for the last five years and can't handle another five. I love doing my art work but I work 12 hours a day, no days off and to see my feedback loop be hovering around zero is killing me.

A question might be, how can I approach this issue and start making something scalable/time independent? Maybe my question would be, what would you do in my position to get on a trajectory of income and move into something non-linear, which is the danger of all freelancers.

Right, I'll stop here. Appreciate any advice. For all the internet marketers my site is stayinwonderland dot com which I designed myself (fwiw).

Man, sounds like quite the ordeal. You're asking everyone to be gentle, I understand you're in a time of desperation but man, I see a bunch of un-tapped potential... I checked out your website, really good stuff dude. You have a marketable skill for sure. Nobody here is going to spoon-feed you or load your gun with the magic bullet, you're the answer to that problem.

A couple threads I can recommend
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ith-no-degree-no-feedback-no-portfolio.58837/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...e-money-copywriting-in-15-days-or-less.59465/

These threads apply to copywriting, but there is a ton of information you can take-away and apply to almost any area.
If you haven't already, read The Millionaire Fastlane . It sounds like you have some time at least, fill your time with knowledge, just make sure you're investing in intelligence and not ignorance.

If your plan is to sit and wait for something to happen, bad news: it won't. We don't live in a cartoon where anvils, pianos and other comically large objects fall out of the sky. Opportunity won't fall out of the sky, make your opportunity.

Signup at upwork.com right now, make a profile. Read the two threads above and hit the grind, man. You already have product (your artwork, even your webdesign) so you've already got a head start. Make that time you've invested in all that work pay you. But most importantly, offer value to your customers, figure out what's going to make them pick you over the next artist/web designer. Setup a way to sell your artwork as prints or whatever else. There is a way to make this passive...

The most important thing: change your mindset. Don't see your situation as an end, see it as an opportunity.

If you don't do any of the above, I really don't know what to tell you. We can't tell you what to do, because then you're simply following someone else's direction. Create your own.

 

[db7903915]

Hey Andy, I've got an idea for you. I'll shoot a PM.

 

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[James Thornton]

Your art is good! I can tell you targeted concept art. Would be a fun job, but doesn't align with the CENTS commandments in the book.

The only possible options for art (that I've thought of) are:

Licensing - "renting" your art to a company that sells products with graphics, where you receive royalties.

Or using your art to create something that can be distributed digitally, like a graphical e book.

Just think of something that would definitely be in high demand. Not just something you would enjoy drawing. You're gonna enjoy drawing either way. Might as well make something for a hot market.

In the words of Seth Godin, quotes that help me focus on product design, not just art for art's sake:

"You aren't entitled to the business you want. Just because you enjoy doing something doesn't mean you're entitled to get paid fairly to do it."

"You weren't born to make this thing, you could make that one instead just as easily."

I'm transitioning away from printmaking, but I know the struggle!
http://thorntonartstudio.com/collections/gallery

 

[Bellini]

So, questions. I almost need help forming a question I'm so lost. Bottom line is that I've been MISERABLE for the last five years and can't handle another five. I love doing my art work but I work 12 hours a day, no days off and to see my feedback loop be hovering around zero is killing me.

A question might be, how can I approach this issue and start making something scalable/time independent? Maybe my question would be, what would you do in my position to get on a trajectory of income and move into something non-linear, which is the danger of all freelancers.

Right, I'll stop here. Appreciate any advice. For all the internet marketers my site is stayinwonderland dot com which I designed myself (fwiw).

I went to your site and your artwork is very good. I have a family member who is a commercial artist (not a graphic designer) and does very well, but he didn't start out at the top, he started on the bottom rung of the ladder like alot of people. Don't get too discouraged. You've got to transfer your creative skills over to putting your stuff out there and become a shameless self-promoter of your work.

Is there much of entertainment industry where you live?

In the U.S there are film companies, video game developers, amusement parks, book publishing companies that all use artists for backdrops, storyboards, character concepts, etc, etc. It doesn't have to be U.S. though, most countries have some type of outlet for that. With the internet you can do a lot of it long-distance.

If you haven't already, mail or email samples of your work to companies or art directors that use your type of art and when the time comes offer very competitive rates starting off until you build up.

If you have already been turned down by big companies, go after smaller companies or companies just starting. Maybe you could offer to do a free sample for a project you heard about for credit. Build up your reputation.

Some people are great at art but not so great at marketing and sales. You might consider getting someone to help you market your stuff for a percentage.

Have you considered selling some of your artwork in framed prints at a local art store or indie owned coffee shop on consignment? Might at least get you some pocket change while you're aiming for the bigger stuff. You could also offer prints for sale on your website.

And NETWORK. Many artists are introverts who don't get out of the house much. I don't know if that's you, but I would recommend you attend as many art showings and art-related event as possible...festivals...street markets...fairs... and always have samples of your work with you to show people. You never know who might know someone who knows someone....


Good luck!

 

[ZCP]

Get out of the pity party and get to work. Get a job. Hustle. List on fiverr. Call local marketing companies. DO something. Action and momentum will get you there.

 

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[sector7]

Start an Etsy shop to sell prints and digital copies. Learn AdWords. Promote your art on relevant social media groups. Get a temporary part time job to get yourself out of the house a few hours a day and meet new people (even if the pay is bad). Make sure you let your close ones know how much you appreciate their support and understanding.

What's the worst possible scenario? You die? That happens to everyone anyway, no matter what they have, what they've done or who they are. Just be thankful for everything you have, make the best of your situation and try to improve your life one day at a time. Leave the negativity and pessimism behind. They will never help you achieve anything.

Good luck!

 

[James Thornton]

What's with the fiver bs? As someone with a decade's experience in art and graphic design, I assure you listing on a site that values your work at five dollars will get you nowhere. Won't even get you by. That site is for high school students at best.

It's a big problem with designers. They don't have any business sense, so all too often, they get ripped off. In this case, they're signing up to get ripped off. It's like 99 designs, where people do the work before even knowing if they will get payment!

If you don't value your work more than that, why should anyone else? Those aren't your customers. Their goal, when they go to that site, is to undervalue your work. You can't change that story, so pick a better customer.

 

[Get Right]

I'll be gentle here as requested. The problems you are facing are not with your work. It is outstanding...and I have a minor degree in art. The problem you are facing is the method that you are looking at the world (mindset).

In artistic types (usually) you learn (or are taught) a certain way to perceive the world. "How it should be", "Is that possible" and "You can change the world". All of these are wonderful thoughts and maybe .00005% of artist types have the talent to pull it off (usually after they are dead though).

The problem arises when you (hopefully) figure out that the world doesn't value your work nearly the same as indoctrinated people think it should. This is a painful realization (I've been there). But there is hope. And you don't have to "settle" or "conform", you just have to adjust your thinking a little bit. You can very much "have your cake and eat it too".

Changing your thinking might take a year or so but I think you will find it worthwhile. If you choose to get started here are the first steps I would take:

1. Read the book if you haven't had time (TMF ).
2. Spend 15 minutes a day learning copywriting (plenty of info on the forum here + read the Boron Letters). Trust me here - learning this will help with mindset, not necessarily be something you will use right away.
3. Try a few "value providing" exercises. For instance - go buy someone a cup a coffee. But instead of just picking something for them - ask them what they want. Ask for lots of details. How hot? How much sugar? What color mug? Try to deliver exactly what they want (value).

Let us know how it goes, its a good group here.

 

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[AndyW]

wow, thanks for all the amazing replies guys! I wasn't getting notified beyond the first reply for some reason so thought the thread had ended. Nice surprise

I guess I won't reply to everyone as it will take all day and no one wants to have to read through it all anyway. So here's just a couple of thoughts:

- I stand by my response to fiverr, I SERIOUSLY thought it was a joke for the new guy, that's why I said "lol". Anyone who uses that site and recommends that site, is a chump. I worked out that I'd have to work 100 hours per week for a year to earn the same as my worst ever year of earning. There's your millionaire mindset! JESUS. Not only that but it disgraces the creative community. Scum, paying people a dollar an hour. Makes me violent. Deep breaths.

- I thought of self publishing and spent today studying how successful Kickstarter campaigns are won until I realised that, without an established following, you will not get crowdfunded. I currently have around 4500 followers spread out over a handful of platforms, but they're very passive and a good percentage are likely completely inactive followers (i.e. followers that follow in hope of reciprocity).

- So the only thing left is, back to the drawing board, my art work is not good enough yet to get noticed. So I'll have to improve it for one, and get contacting art directors and production designers in the movie industry. Maybe if I had my name on a decent project it would elevate me. And maybe when I move to Seattle this year there'll be opportunities there. I currently live in the a**hole of the world.

- I have read bits of 'the book' and wondered if it would apply to me. You all reckon it would then?

Thanks again, will get reading those links!

 

[AndyW]

Hey Andy, I've got an idea for you. I'll shoot a PM.

Cheers dude, I'm all ears

 

[Formless]

Hm.

I know absolutely nothing about what you do, so the question might seem absurd.

How TEACHABLE is your skill?

 

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[AndyW]

Hm.

I know absolutely nothing about what you do, so the question might seem absurd.

How TEACHABLE is your skill?

No, that's a perfectly good question. There's an established platform for artists wanting to teach other artists (digital mainly) and it's called Gumroad. But in recent months/year or so the established price is $5 per video tutorial. And it's sort of seen as a faux pas if you start doing it without having the backing of industry experience. Like, why is this guy teaching and charging for it? so teaching is very much on the cards when I can back it up with experience.

 

[James Thornton]

You're undervaluing your quality of work. The quality is not why you struggle to land a job in the concept art industry. That's a ridiculously competitive space. Millions of artists want to make art for video games and movies. Almost every single digital artist I know is going for it, so good luck finding that opening!

The sooner you make the mind set shift of placing a high value on your skill, the sooner you'll find a way to provide value to the market with it.

 

[James Thornton]

Also, you don't have to put a course on gum road. You could start a WordPress site with the wish list plug-in to manage members. Or you could put the information into an e-book or PDF.

 

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[KennyJA]

I currently have around 4500 followers spread out over a handful of platforms

You've tried engaging them? I thought you were really down in the dumps after that sob story (which is why i told you Fiverr) but it seems not so true in some regards. How can you be certain over 4 thousand followers don't really care for your artwork? not everyone has 4,500 followers to brag about, don't discard them just yet. Test them, see if they buy. what you attempt to sell is up to you. after they buy is when you learn what sells. have these people been following for several years now? They might be ghosts and forgot about you then. but i don't think you should give up on that until you know for certain.

If you put something valuable i.e. something pretty out there you can find a few buyers. even if it's a handful. i'm going to be negative but don't think you'll sell 1,000 copies or even a hundred on day one.i wish it was that easy for everyone starting out. have these people been following for several years now? They might be ghosts and forgot about you then. but i don't think you should give up on that until you know for certain.

 

[AndyW]

I reckon I value my work accurately. There's quite a simple way to measure. Within my field there are sites that people go to. In fact, there's really just one main site, but a few other less relevant ones. You post a work and it receives likes. A successful piece will get 100 likes. A very successful piece 200 and a stellar piece up to 400+. I've had one piece get 100+ and all the rest average between 20-40. All the pros post there.

It's whether I decide to stay within that niche is the question. A well executed graphic novel, with shitty art work, can sell. But you can't just come out of nowhere and do that (self publishing wise). Tutorials wise, you do have to be careful. The industry/community is small-ish and everyone knows everyone else and if you're seen unfavourably, it means yo' a$$ in terms of getting hired. The best artists in the world are charging $5 for a one hour vid.

My followers - only the facebook ones are directly reachable and they number 700 currently. In terms of the other ones, they're only reachable when I release something on sites where I'm followed. So if I had something to sell I could post it in a link at the bottom of the description on a new art piece when I upload it.

Really, the single best way to generate a following, is to make art that's awesome. Alongside that is to make art for a movie/video game (although you can only release that about a year or three after making it). Or to get a job so you can say below your name "visual development artist for sony entertainment" or something. That's when shit starts happening. So maybe right now my best investment ought to be in knocking on people's door to get hired on decent projects. So far I've hardly done any of that because I've been waiting to get enough skills. I might be about ready now though. Then there's selling prints, which is something I've been looking into and I'll need to create a separate portfolio for that because my current work doesn't do well as prints.

 

[James Thornton]

You value your work relative to the top dogs on concept art forums, which is understandable because you've geared your entire portfolio towards landing a job in that industry. (Which is also why it's not a good fit for print work, which is the home decor market)

Think outside of just providing value to a huge game or movie studio. Don't wait to get picked amongst a giant crowd of insane talent. Pick yourself, and make something for the market. Your skill is already good enough to create value.

 

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[AndyW]

Yep. I do very much see your point.

It's down to brainstorming. Which is what I did today. Went for a long walk, came back with an idea to self publish, studied self publishing until I realised that I was back where I started - needing an audience. So if there's a way to circumvent the traditional process of getting an audience (which presently = getting hired on big jobs so people take you seriously) then I guess I have to figure that out. Some kind of niche, internet marketing info is needed.

Something else that worried me is that the graphic novel kickstarter model seems to be that, already established authors, raise around £5k/$10k to make a graphic novel. It can take a year to create a graphic novel and usually involves a writer + an artist. I can do both, so... who the hell is living on that much money per year!!?

 

[Get Right]

It can take a year to create a graphic novel and usually involves a writer + an artist. I can do both, so... who the hell is living on that much money per year!!?

There are no shortcuts. Grab a temp job while you build your business if you need to support yourself. Most here do it that way.

 

[Bila]

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/does-it-hurt-bad-enough.55733/

 

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[jretana96]

Dude! ALWAYS keep forward you can do it! Many days are that black evil stormy days but is for make you a stronger person when similar problems came to you, you would pass it easily. Your desire or something different is what would take you ahead from other and succeed! I am offering a free book about success if you like it! Never stop dreaming!


-University of Entrepreneurs. http://7success.gr8.com

 

[DST]

Fiverr.com is good for freelancing. That place is business oriented and many customers look for services that help their business. Art work is big over there, I'm sure it can be successful for you. You charge 5 dollars for a basic service, and 5 extra for each service added on. Example:

>Art
>black and white for 5 dollars, 5 extra for color
>5 extra for 1 day delivery

I hope this helps you.

lol. But seriously...

I say give it a try, you can earn some decent money with a good hourly rate at fiverr. Have a nice portfolio and good options for extra gigs. A lot of the artists have the basic $5 gig which gives some very simple design (but are actually useless, often have watermarks, low resolution etc), and then extra gigs for all the other stuff (different files, resolution, copyright, colors, whatever)..

Recently I spent $15 on three very simple logos revisions on fiverr, I was satisfied with one of them and ended up ordering a design package for $130 more. Basically it was the same elements of the logo just slightly customized to fit business card, papers etc, very simple work).

I spent a total of $145, which turned out to be a decent hourly rate (I know that it didn't take long, I have some experience myself). Just set up some ads and with decent pricing for your work, doesn't have to be a full time job but can turn out to be some decent side cash. Just be clear in your description what you're delivering so the customer don't expect much for a few $.

 

[Kevin Peter]

Why dont you try to be part of an animated movie's creation team? Am sure you have the talent to design and develop the look and feel. I guess character emotions is something you concentrate on? Game design is another interesting area that Id suggest.

 

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[James Thornton]

There may be opportunity for upsell on fiver, but an important part of freelancing is to find clients who are telling themselves this story:

"I am willing to pay what it's worth for quality work because appearance is important for my project."

People who choose a website based on $5 graphic design are not telling themselves that story. They just want the lowest price for acceptable quality, because they've decided appearance isn't a crucial part of their project.

And for many projects, that's true. How many huge brands have simple font logos?

It probably attracts a few cheapos too, but either way, you can't change the story a customer is telling themselves. I bet if you looked at the stats, $145 total purchase price would be rare. Remember the forum you're on, a place that is a collection of serious entrepreneurs on serious missions.

I could be wrong, just my take.

 

[Deleted20833]

1. I would produce YouTube videos showing people how to make similiar artwork (drives traffic for lead gen)
2. Send them over to an opt in page for a free eBook on how to "x" (lead gen for offers)
3. Follow up with the subscribers with free content and pitch your own info products (offers for money)