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The Worth of a Good Guy is...

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Almantas

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Hi guys,

I've tried to look for similar threads, but couldn't find them. So, I am creating this thread in hopes of helping other folks see what the real worth of a good guy is. Wanna hear the funny part? I have no idea what the worth is and whether it's worth being a good guy at all. That's why I am creating this thread. I want to hear your opinion about whether it's worth being a good guy, what price one usually pays for being a good guy vs a selfish guy, etc.

I know, it depends on many factors. Such as definition of a good guy, context, environment, etc. This thread is no life or death sentence for wrong answers. It's simply a thread of peoples' opinions and hopefully some personal stories about being a good guy. I hope to hear some lessons, suggestions, recommendations and such.

I'll share my single personal observation of what usually happens when I am being a good guy:

In most cases being a good guy on a regular basis attracts people to my life who love not me, but the free favours I regularly do for them. Such people usually see me as a guy who has nothing more important to do, lives a boring life and is easy to manipulate. However, when I help someone once and then tell them to go find help elsewhere because I am busy working on my business, such people get angry at first but then interested in me and what I am doing - in long term I earn their respect even more than helping them every time they ask me to do so.

What's your take on being a nice/good guy and helping everyone as much as possible? Should you sacrifice your well-ness and goals in exchange of regularly helping someone? Or is it all about striking the balance? Post anything that pops into your head - I am interested in your thoughts.
 

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Almantas

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I am a neutral guy. But, brutally honest.
Of course some like that, some don't.
I'd rather work with those that do.
I don't do good guy/bad guy sh*t.

I am interested in your definition of a neutral guy. You mean you find a middle ground in YES and NO situations? If someone asks you a favour you don't wanna do, you just ignore it and move on or are you being honest and letting the guy know you're not the best guy who can help him out?
 

jon.a

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I am interested in your definition of a neutral guy. You mean you find a middle ground in YES and NO situations? If someone asks you a favour you don't wanna do, you just ignore it and move on or are you being honest and letting the guy know you're not the best guy who can help him out?
I lean to the second option. If I don't want to do it, I might not be the best guy. Of course some times I have to do shit that I don't want to do anyway, just to get it done or get it done right.
 

LeoistheSun

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They say Snapchat was created based on the idea that people wear different faces/masks around different people. Mr. Spigel said that I think.

The point is, don't you have different personalities with different people? IE: Nice, Straitforward, Laid-back, funny?

***Edit:

They say nice guys finish last. Where I can think of a couple instances this might be true, I tend to think that being "nice" has a MASSIVE definition to that. Can you explain more about your definition?
 

rogue synthetic

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Hi guys,

In most cases being a good guy on a regular basis attracts people to my life who love not me, but the free favours I regularly do for them. Such people usually see me as a guy who has nothing more important to do, lives a boring life and is easy to manipulate. However, when I help someone once and then tell them to go find help elsewhere because I am busy working on my business, such people get angry at first but then interested in me and what I am doing - in long term I earn their respect even more than helping them every time they ask me to do so.

This is a fascinating comment, and I expect we'll find more people who agree with it.

Here's a question to get some wheels turning. What part of "being a good guy" means "willing to be taken advantage of"?
 

MidwestLandlord

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Ever read "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Robert Glover?

If not, you should.

It's not black and white...good versus selfish, nice versus a**hole, etc.

"Nice guys finish last"

Yeah, ok. Once again society turns a complex human behavior into a black and white issue.

The word "nice" or "good" is misused when someone says "he's a nice guy"

What they usually mean is he's a pushover that can't say NO.

What they usually mean is he's a guy that pretends to ignore his own wants and needs, but then secretly despises people when they don't give him what he wants.

You use the word "good" in your OP, but describe a pushover. There is a world of difference between the two.

I'm a good guy, sure. I'm kind, respectful, polite.

But I also say NO when it's the right thing to say.

I communicate my wants and needs to those that need to hear it, so there is no unspoken (and therefore unmet) expectations.

I'm not a pushover but I am a nice guy, because those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Is it "worth" being a good guy? Of course it is.

But...is it "worth" being a pushover and caring this much what people think of you? NO
 

RobD88

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I will suggest that if you create value in people's lives you are a "good guy". The definition of value is the operative idea there. Value can be in doing nice things for someone. Value can be in telling them the brutally honest truth when they need to hear it. Value can be providing them with a quality product or service at a fair price. Value can be tough love when a loved one needs it. Value can be staying out of the way and letting people figure things out on their own. Value can be saying no when it's the right answer.

I think bringing value into another person's life will return value back to you in spades. So I would say being a good guy has extreme value and honestly there probably aren't enough of us out there.
 

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I am interested in your definition of a neutral guy. You mean you find a middle ground in YES and NO situations? If someone asks you a favour you don't wanna do, you just ignore it and move on or are you being honest and letting the guy know you're not the best guy who can help him out?

I think we all have to look at who the people are we allow into our life and create appropriate boundaries. A good practice is just to say "no" as much as possible. My wife tells me I'm great at it, especially at the car lot, lol. The more you practice, the more it reinforces that your time is your own and in the end, time is one of the only things of value you will ever have in life. It's like gold, protect it as such. If others don't value your time, it's usually because you don't value it.

When you say "no" more than "yes", people understand that when you do agree to do them a favor, it's a big deal and they appreciate it. And I love doing favors and helping people out, I make it a habit of doing it regularly. But only when I want to and expect absolutely nothing in return.

I also recommend "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Great book to get you in the right mindset.
 

WJK

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I will suggest that if you create value in people's lives you are a "good guy". The definition of value is the operative idea there. Value can be in doing nice things for someone. Value can be in telling them the brutally honest truth when they need to hear it. Value can be providing them with a quality product or service at a fair price. Value can be tough love when a loved one needs it. Value can be staying out of the way and letting people figure things out on their own. Value can be saying no when it's the right answer.

I think bringing value into another person's life will return value back to you in spades. So I would say being a good guy has extreme value and honestly there probably aren't enough of us out there.
I agree. Being a "good guy" is when one brings value to others around them. I believe that a person can build up a following of people who really love them -- and not just for favors. A couple of examples come to mind.

I have a close friend named Carrie. She now 90 years young. Many years ago, I helped Carrie and 3 other women start a shelter for homeless women with their children in the Los Angeles area. We ran the shelter for several years and helped thousand of homeless people. Then, for a number of years, we ran transitional housing. Carrie was the hand-on director of both during all of those years. She had to be tough, but she has a huge heart. Some of the women and a some of the kids we helped still have picnics and get-together events for Carrie. She has a following of people who love her and honor her - they call her "Mother Carrie" . And the best part is that some of the kids who came through the shelter are carrying on similar work in their communities.

My second example was my mother. I moved Mom and me back to our home here in Alaska when she was dying. She had been living with me in Greater Los Angeles after she became ill.

For years after her death, people stopped me to tell me how she had helped them at rough times in their lives. She did her kindnesses quietly, without fanfare. She used our family's residential rental business and her personal pantry to provide food and help with emergency housing, before public resources were readily available here in our little corner of Alaska. She was always giving someone in need, a ride into town. Here acts of kindness were a daily quest. I knew Mom was helping people, but I had no idea how many lives she touched and how much she was loved.

I really think that both of these women created their following of people because they really cared about the people around them. They listened with their hearts. People had sense of being connected to them. It was much more than these women doing people "favors".
 

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Mattie

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What's your take on being a nice/good guy and helping everyone as much as possible? Should you sacrifice your well-ness and goals in exchange of regularly helping someone?
Take if from a nice woman, it's a hard lesson to learn along the way. I'll give the shirt off my back to a complete stranger if they need it. The only problem is you can sacrifice it all, give it all away, and people will never respect you, never be thankful for what you've done for them, destroy what you give them, use you, take advantage of you, go along for the ride, abuse you, fight you for everything you've got, but in the end you learn to protect yourself, make better choices, and perhaps people don't need the help. You're just enabling them. Stopping them from growing, maturing, and taking 100% personal responsibility for their life. It's eight years later, I see people doing the same thing they were eight years ago, because they haven't grown up, matured, taken the time to do the inner work.

I'm quite different. I'm not willing to sacrifice much or give to others as much I used too, because I know how human nature, gone through the process, see the conditioning of society. When we teach people to be "Helpless" they fall for the illusion they can't help themselves. This is the biggest lie. I believe they need to get up themselves, face their fears, face their insecurities, face themselves, and stop self-sabotaging themselves, show up for themselves, and people think I'm a b.i.t.c.h., but isn't that the natural process, making me the Villain, the enemy.

I'll listen to the story, I'll feel their intentions, motivations, and I'll determine whether they're serious about helping themselves or just playing. I'll observe them for awhile, see what they're doing, or not doing, and see where they're at in the process. I believe some people do need help and a lift up. Usually can see it in action, and I don't listen to their words. I want to see what they're doing to improve the situation.

If you're in a terrible situation, show me the evidence. I learned this in my internship. There's a paper trail and I can assess the situation, and determine again by actions what you're willing to do and not do to get where you want to be. You can make any excuse you want too, but if your not acting, it's wasting my time to help you. If you're not serious. There's nothing I can do for you.

I'm the most nurturing person there is, empathetic, understanding, compassionate, and listen, but I'm also about tough love, discipline, and going the extra mile. If you're not willing to go the distance, we're just wasting time. The world isn't free. Free doesn't pay your bills. Free doesn't guarantee stability, security, and safety for myself or family.

I'll be the first to stop on the road and make sure someone's okay in a snow bank, car accident, or emergency situation.

I'll go in to help someone it their suicidal and switch their mindset, because I know it's an emergency situation. I'll save a life.

Any other time, it's evaluating the situation, being objective, and allowing others to find their way.

I believe this is part of being a leader. I suppose part of this is because I've grown up around the Coast Guard. We call them Surfmen. You watch the waves, you watch the clouds, you watch the weather, you allow people to what they want to do. When you see the danger, you do what you can to help them. You learn when to move and when to stand back. You speak to people along the way, you check in with them, you teach them, and you lead by example.

I love the Surfman Creed. It speaks of some important lessons in life. Even when it comes to a business, family, or marriage. These are always your team members in life and they count on you to your part and show up in life.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kgAWN2fgnM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv8TNMaFROY


People need to show up in life. The best person who can help them is themselves. No one can do the inner work for them.
 

WJK

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I help a lot of people too. I am very careful to make sure that they help themselves as part of the deal I make with them. When I find that someone is a mooch, a liar or a bad guy, I just quit and withdraw from the situation. It's totally my choice.

That being said, I am able to help a lot of people. Sometimes, it's just having the contacts at the local resources -- the food bank, local clearing house for housing help, the churches, the local housing authority, etc.. Many times, it's giving people a break when they need it the most. Sometimes it's as simple as letting someone ride with me into town so they can take care of some needed errand.

I try to pay forward and do a lot of small acts of random kindness. Those efforts make my life a lot richer.
 

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Nice guy - doormat, boring, can’t say no (terrified of rejection/conflict), seeks validation, doesn’t get respect, blends in

Good guy - has standards, says no, expects respect from the beginning, kind, not afraid to stand out

Scumbag - always puts himself before others (not necessarily a bad guy though)
 

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Aha, been having the same problem, but the problem was actually in me. I think the first step is admitting yourself, that you have a problem if you are not communicating what exactly do you want in return for the help. If you do not want anything in return for it, it's fine to help, but you should not have any expectations as well. I have came to understand that all life is negotiation and it is good to get better at it. If the negotiation does not work or people are toxic or it just does not work for you, it is okay to walk away and cut people out who are not helping you to reach your goals. I am constantly reminding myself that as well.

I don't know a good/bad thing because I can see a good person can be a bad person sometimes and vice versa. Who exactly decides who is good or bad and based on what? Sure there is law, but a lot of actions are neutral unless a person gives it alignment and each person can have a different opinion.

If we are talking about business ethics, it is the grey area, if you blackhat, scheme and steal, you most likely will go to jail and that is not a success in my book. I have a marketer friend who gets anxiety attacks because he does some schemey business. I guess at the end of the day, you must figure out what you are willing to accept, what you are willing to risk with and what is a big no-no for you and where do you put limits and where it starts being a limiting belief. Reflection needed I guess.
 

SteveO

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What's your take on being a nice/good guy and helping everyone as much as possible? Should you sacrifice your well-ness and goals in exchange of regularly helping someone? Or is it all about striking the balance? Post anything that pops into your head - I am interested in your thoughts.
You are not a bad guy if "You do you". People can do themselves and you can help if it does not cause disruption in your life. Do what you want. If you want to help, then help. If you choose not to help, ignore the noise that comes with it.

I also agree with @jon.a
 

Andy Black

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Should you sacrifice your well-ness and goals in exchange of regularly helping someone?
My family is top priority for me, but I'm not going to help them if I don't look after my own health and well-ness. Neither am I going to set a good example for them if I'm not happy and fulfilled achieving my own goals in life.

The purpose of our businesses is to serve others and get paid doing so. If we don't get paid then we have a hobby or a charity. Nothing wrong with either of those, it's just that I'd rather serve more people than I am currently and a business is my chosen vehicle to do that.

We can't help anyone if we're too unwell to do so.

We can't help our clients/customers if we go out of business.


In most cases being a good guy on a regular basis attracts people to my life who love not me, but the free favours I regularly do for them.
I'd consider myself a nice guy. I give away a lot of knowledge freely. I've PM'd nearly 1,900 people in the forum. I've had dozens of free calls with people from the forum.

Yet not one person has over-stepped the mark and asked for more. There's been ZERO hint of people trying to take from me. People are just kind enough to accept what I give.

I must be doing something that allows me to be nice, without giving the impression I'm a push-over?

Maybe it's because I like helping people, and am already happy in my own skin? I don't help people to get nice feedback and validation - I do it for the genuine pleasure of helping people get unstuck. Maybe if we help people because we want approval or interest then that could attract the type of people who will take advantage of that?

This stuff isn't my lane... but maybe our own feeling of self-worth plays a big part in this?
 

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As I started reading your post I was thinking "the worth of being a good guy? Well surely surely offering a quality (not shoddy i.e. "good") product or service at a fair price (not rip off i.e. "good") from someone they like & trust (not untrustworthy, un-relatable & a self-interested money chaser i.e. "good") is a slam dunk positive value to a business? That's the kind of thing breeds good word-of-mouth, non?" but then I read on & you said you'd found it had attracted some wrong 'uns, & I think I see what you're getting at.
I think the answer might be this:

I must be doing something that allows me to be nice, without giving the impression I'm a push-over?

Maybe it's because I like helping people, and am already happy in my own skin? I don't help people to get nice feedback and validation - I do it for the genuine pleasure of helping people get unstuck. Maybe if we help people because we want approval or interest then that could attract the type of people who will take advantage of that?

This stuff isn't my lane... but maybe our own feeling of self-worth plays a big part in this?

Slightly unrelated example (though nothing's really unrelated in this universe).

I was a weird, introverted kid. I should've been a magnet for bullies, but I wasn't. I always put it down to high self esteem. Somehow most people sensed not to bother with bothering me. Someone once did, & I shut it down the next day. Never bothered again.

I'm super pleased you draw a line @Almantas & get respected in the end. I just wonder what it is that makes people think they can continuously take from you in the first place? Because it's not simply "being a good guy", or it would be true for all "good guys". Why do they not subconsciously pick up on signals that you will help, but you also have boundaries? Do you have any ideas? I'm curious what you feel your experience is.
 

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I believe it's easy to be a good guy when you don't need much from life.
If you take away my food, shelter, health, family, and freedom, ill stop being good real fast, ill kill for these basic needs, society be damned.
Even the need for sex is a conquerable desire, like Jack Nicholson said in The Departed "I don't need it, but i like it!" lol
That's just my values.
I prefer the Epicurean Philosophy "All that is good is easy to get"

I think many people "need" a lot more than necessary and will step on other people to get it, too bad. The psychopaths get to the very top, until a bloody revolution takes them down and the cycle begins again. Is it inevitable?
 

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I'd work on 2 things:

1. Learning how to build healthy boundaries
2. Figure out the value of your time

I spend a tremendous amount of time doing my philanthropies. I can do that because I set boundaries up that prevent "abuse of niceness" and built a business that values my time.
 

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