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HOT TOPIC The Worldwide Covid-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

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Rabby

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I don’t buy that people can get it a second time, especially in such a short timeframe.

imagine that when you get infected, the volume of viruses produced becomes like a swimming pool full of water. Your immune system mounts a response and drains the pool. Then right after it’s challenged with 1 drop and all the immunity your body built to drain the pool can’t handle that one drop.

unlikely. Unless you encounter a mutated virus your immunity is ineffective against.

sometimes immunity can dwindle over time, but not in days or weeks. Usually it’s years or decades.

the more likely explanation is that either the first of the second Illness was misattributed to Coronavirus. something like a false positive test result. Or they are going on clinical symptoms alone which is highly inaccurate.
I agree. If you didn't make antibodies strong enough to overcome the virus, you wouldn't get over the virus in the first place. Getting re-infected soon after recovery would imply a different strain, mutated sufficiently that your antibodies became irrelevant.
 

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Ernman

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Like many have said its more of when not if. And there’s nothing you can do about it. Just prepare and protect your family and brace yourself for what’s coming. If it doesn’t come that’s awesome, if it does - you were ready.
Treat it as you would earth quakes, typhoons, etc. It's out there and it may impact you. Assess you're situation and prepare accordingly. I like some of the measured preparation recommendations I've seen such as:
- explore work from home options with your employer (clearly not available to all)
- if you don't have a primary care provider or know how to contact them, fix that right now
- know where your hospitals are
- pay attention to local news for reports of out breaks
- assess school situation if it applies to you
- consider special health issues applicable to you or those you care for
- stock up on supplies you may need if you get sick and can't go shopping
- pay attention to your surroundings, wear a mask if appropriate
- get out of your news bubble - if you only listen/watch one channel, news funnel or rely on a specific social media feed, diversify. (you need the truth, not what you like to hear and see)
 

NovaAria

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I don’t buy that people can get it a second time, especially in such a short timeframe.

imagine that when you get infected, the volume of viruses produced becomes like a swimming pool full of water. Your immune system mounts a response and drains the pool. Then right after it’s challenged with 1 drop and all the immunity your body built to drain the pool can’t handle that one drop.
Again, the information we have right now is rather sparse as our primary source was the Chinese government, but more and more papers are confirming that the virus causes a Cytokine storm. Basically, the virus hijacks the immune system built specifically to fight it. The more white cells you have in your lungs, the more white cells your body produces because the virus is inducing their production. Until the lungs cant function anymore.
It's why some of the recommended treatments are actually Cytokine inhibitors.


As someone else said, this points more and more towards it being an engineered virus accidentally released on its maker.
 

JScott

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As someone else said, this points more and more towards it being an engineered virus accidentally released on its maker.
Not sure why this points to it being engineered?

There are several variants to flu virus that result in cytokine storm, including the Spanish flu and the H1N1 and H5N1 bird flu strains. Unless we were engineering viruses back in 1918, I don't think this means that the viruses were engineered.

That said, I'm certainly not an epidemiologist, so maybe there are other things at play that I'm not familiar with. I've just heard a lot of conspiracy theories recently, and have been trying to keep myself educated...
 

Bekit

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Except that this virus isn't behaving the normal way.

Instead of an immune response that results in killing the virus, the viral load strangely stays high while your symptoms subside.

Here's the explanation I've seen that makes the most sense. (This is not medical terminology, it's just my understanding based on what I've learned.)

This virus is behaving like the SARS vaccine that they were trying to develop.

When they administered the vaccine, and then test subjects were subsequently exposed to the pathogen, their illness was far WORSE than the illness for subjects who had never been vaccinated.

The mechanism behind this was basically antibody-assisted transmission.

In other words, instead of antibodies doing their normal thing and killing/deactivating the pathogen, they acted like the key to assist the virus to get into the cell.

I have heard medical professionals constantly express surprise at the behavior of the immune system with this virus. There's something weird going on here.
 

JScott

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Here's the explanation I've seen that makes the most sense. (This is not medical terminology, it's just my understanding based on what I've learned.)
Can you post a link to this explanation from a reliable (i.e., medical or scientific) source?

I have heard medical professionals constantly express surprise at the behavior of the immune system with this virus. There's something weird going on here.
Can you post a link to some of these medical professionals who have said this?
 
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UnrealCreative

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MJ DeMarco

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"Nothing to see here, move along!"
The futures reacted negatively, not terribly bad, but negative overall. That means that moneyed opinions believe the issue is more worrisome than what was messaged.
 

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"Nothing to see here, move along!"
Watched it. I always get nervous when the folks in DC are congratulating each other on what a great job they’re doing.
 

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WillHurtDontCare

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One thing that fascinates me is that so many people seem to almost want an apocalypse to happen, whether it be the coronavirus, the extinction rebellion, societal collapse, etc. I don't think that they want people to suffer per se either; I just think there's something going on with the cultural psyche where people like the idea of living through the apocalypse. It's a weird time to be alive.
 

Rabby

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One thing that fascinates me is that so many people seem to almost want an apocalypse to happen, whether it be the coronavirus, the extinction rebellion, societal collapse, etc. I don't think that they want people to suffer per se either; I just think there's something going on with the cultural psyche where people like the idea of living through the apocalypse. It's a weird time to be alive.
Maybe it's like a vacation where you don't have to engage in the drudgery of everyday work... all you have to do is survive. The passive person's version of going into the wilderness and roughing it?
 

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How many of you guys are already prepping or is already prepared?
What scares me the most is the thought of positive cases popping everywhere and creating a pandemic panic attack. I also have 2 emergency whiskey bottles. :)
 

WillHurtDontCare

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Maybe it's like a vacation where you don't have to engage in the drudgery of everyday work... all you have to do is survive. The passive person's version of going into the wilderness and roughing it?
That's definitely part of it for some people. Fight Club does a great job showing how some people view modern life as so mundane that they'd happily blow everything up just to feel like they're part of something that matters.
 
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loop101

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Watched it. I always get nervous when the folks in DC are congratulating each other on what a great job they’re doing.
Trump said of the 15 patients in the US, "only one" was "not doing well". If that patient dies, the virus has a 6.6% mortality rate, even with the best healthcare.
 

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That's definitely part of it for some people. Fight Club does a great job showing how some people view modern life as so mundane that they'd happily blow everything up just to feel like they're part of something that matters.
"People want to be a part of something bigger than themselves".

This is one of the keys to branding and marketing, I've learned. A brand that people talks and cares about.
 

Rabby

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Trump said of the 15 patients in the US, "only one" was "not doing well". If that patient dies, the virus has a 6.6% mortality rate, even with the best healthcare.
Sample size too small, no statistical significance.
 

GIlman

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Trump said of the 15 patients in the US, "only one" was "not doing well". If that patient dies, the virus has a 6.6% mortality rate, even with the best healthcare.
The numbers are too small to make any valid assumptions like that. It could be better or worse than that. Statistics only really work for sizable populations.

for example, if one person had it and died, that does not mean the mortality (death) rate is 100%. Just like if one person has it and lives the mortality rate is not 0%.
 

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Rabby

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How many of you guys are already prepping or is already prepared?
What scares me the most is the thought of positive cases popping everywhere and creating a pandemic panic attack. I also have 2 emergency whiskey bottles. :)
Wuhan virus or not, my house is equipped for blacksmiting, metal casting, raising chickens, growing fruit, growing herbs, pickling, making soap, making antiseptics, and making mead or wine. With slight effort I can add distilling, black powder, stronger antiseptics (cautery stuff like silver nitrate), and probably basic antibiotics. I would hate for the thing to blow up into a real apocalypse, and I don't even remotely think it will, but if it does I'll be one of this dark age's fuedal lords ;) Come on by the fortress if things get rough with the shambling masses of Corona zombies.
 

ShamanKing

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Wuhan virus or not, my house is equipped for blacksmiting, metal casting, raising chickens, growing fruit, growing herbs, pickling, making soap, making antiseptics, and making mead or wine. With slight effort I can add distilling, black powder, stronger antiseptics (cautery stuff like silver nitrate), and probably basic antibiotics. I would hate for the thing to blow up into a real apocalypse, and I don't even remotely think it will, but if it does I'll be one of this dark age's fuedal lords ;) Come on by the fortress if things get rough with the shambling masses of Corona zombies.
Nice. I shall keep that in mind. haha
 

Primeperiwinkle

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Wuhan virus or not, my house is equipped for blacksmiting, metal casting, raising chickens, growing fruit, growing herbs, pickling, making soap, making antiseptics, and making mead or wine. With slight effort I can add distilling, black powder, stronger antiseptics (cautery stuff like silver nitrate), and probably basic antibiotics. I would hate for the thing to blow up into a real apocalypse, and I don't even remotely think it will, but if it does I'll be one of this dark age's fuedal lords ;) Come on by the fortress if things get rough with the shambling masses of Corona zombies.
30766

I’m taking you up on this when my 200 acre abandoned farm runs out of wild boar.

What state are you in again?
 

Rabby

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I only mentioned it because if Trump was trying to make people feel better using those numbers, those numbers were not too great. Also, the 6.6% mortality was not too far off from the 8.4% mortality calculated from a sample size of 32,761
I get your meaning. It's just that, if we throw out the law of large numbers, all the numbers are meaningless.

Also, going from 6.6 to 8.4 would be a 27% increase in mortality rate. In other words, more than 1/4 of the survivors at the 6.6 rate would die if 8.4 is correct. I think that would be significant. But I also am highly sceptical of the numbers. I think they're testing all the dead people and people on death's door, and none of the people who fight off the virus with mild symptoms. And the media is turning the whole thing into an orgasmic attention-seeking frenzy to fill their pockets with ad money.
 

Rabby

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andrewsyc

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Aside from stalking up and if you had specific antiviral drugs, Quercetin may be good to get. I haven't really experienced any bad side effects. Granted it's sold as a supplement, a plant flavanoid, but of all the ones I've tried (like green tea extract) it seems to work the best.

Anecdotal, my sister works as an outcall nurse practitioner and hasn't gotten the flu while coworkers have and said she's gotten over things a lot quicker while on it.

Might be worth a shot. It's relatively cheap and not regulated and I think most brands should be good.

Quercetin, a flavonoid present in a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, has been investigated for its antiviral activity. Cell culture studies have shown that quercetin can reduce infectivity of target cells and replication against a wide variety of respiratory viruses, including HSV-1 and HSV-2 (9, 14), adenoviruses (AdV-3, AdV-8, and AdV-11) (9), coronavirus (14), parainfluenza virus type 3, respiratory syncytial virus (20), rhinovirus (15), and severe acute respiratory syndrome (8). It has recently been reported that quercetin feedings can reduce URTI following 3 days of exhaustive cycling exercise in athletes (27). However, the effects of quercetin on susceptibility to infection following exercise stress in a controlled experimental viral challenge model have not been determined.
From: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.90319.2008

Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 10.00.13 PM.png

Again, anecdotal, if you are at the store though swing by the pharmacy and pick some up considering the low cost and low to no side effects and potential upside. Feel free to google around and see what you find.

Same source:
Cyclists ingesting quercetin at 1,000 mg/day over a 3-wk period experienced a significantly lower incidence of infection during the 2-wk period following the intense exercise. It is important, however, to note that this was based on self-report of upper respiratory infection with no confirmation of viral illness.
 
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Rabby

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Quercetin is an example of why (probably) people grow bitter herbs, and eat them, without really knowing why they do it. Who would choose to eat all this weird tasting stuff? Who would drink bitters, or quinine? But we do, if we can separate ourselves from junk food. Look at traditional diets, especially in equatorial climates, and they're full of the stuff. Stock up on capers ;)
 

andrewsyc

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Quercetin is an example of why (probably) people grow bitter herbs, and eat them, without really knowing why they do it. Who would choose to eat all this weird tasting stuff? Who would drink bitters, or quinine? But we do, if we can separate ourselves from junk food. Look at traditional diets, especially in equatorial climates, and they're full of the stuff. Stock up on capers ;)
Capers, absolutely, highest density I believe of Quercetin.
I prefer the pills :)
 

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