The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[ChrisV]

@ChrisV you are someone I consider a very good friend, but, I vehemently disagree with nearly everything you are posting in this thread. It seems you take the analysis of government employed experts with their moment of spotlight, grasping at their 15 minutes of fame for dear life, as fact.

No, it's not that.

I come from New York city.

I'm a political centrist posting on a forum that has a heavy right wing bias, so I fully expect that people are going to disagree.


It's a matter of perspective. When I talk to my friends from New York they think I'm too light on the quarantine. They want significantly more stringent lockdown measures.

That's the problem with being a centrist. People on the left and right don't like your views.

And again, it's a matter of perspective. If you're from a Rural area (Conservative) that hasn't been hit hard, you likely think this is overblown. And you're right. If you're from an Urban area (Liberal) that has been devastated, you likely think that a lockdown is appropriate (and you're also right.)

What's not okay is taking those opinions and dismantling factual information.

You go from a valid argument ("my community hasn't been hit hard, so I don't think lockdown measures are necessary here" to an invalid one ("the models were wrong")

I'm trying to get people to differentiate their opinions from facts. Bias is when you have an opinion then you selectively pick out facts.

Scott Adams has a very good talk on this subject.

I don't see why it's so hard to just say "Okay, New York City decided this is what's best for them... they probably know better than I do." just like people from New York City should say "Okay, Texas decided this is what's best for them... they probably know better than I do." You know.... considering they actually live there and have a better idea of what's going on.

I don't blame you, it is what we are taught (indoctrinated) to do, but if you broaden your thought process, outside of government lackeys, instead of dismissing everyone that isn't operating in an "official government capacity" as a conspiracy theorist, you might start to see where we are coming from.

I don't trust government. Government is the most crooked organization on the planet. I trust science. When government is informed by science, I trust government.. but only by proxy. It just so happens that this pandemic is largely informed by scientists. Okay.. they're 'government employed' but the scientists who are not government employees largely agree. I literally have no idea what the 'government employees experts' are saying, besides a few brief clips from Fauci.

My views on all these things (vaccines, etc) come from the scientific consensus, not because 'the government told me what to think,' and quite frankly that's insulting. I've spend my entire adult life listening to both arguments and actively seeking out dissenting views.

Persuasive Litigator

www.persuasivelitigator.com

My views aren't from government employed experts. I'm subscribed to many scientific journals and keep up-to-date with them. I don't even watch television, so I have no idea what news organizations are saying.

 

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[hellolin]

No, it's not that.

I come from New York city.

I'm a political centrist posting on a forum that has a heavy right wing bias, so I fully expect that people are going to disagree.

View attachment 32472
It's a matter of perspective. When I talk to my friends from New York they think I'm too light on the quarantine. They want significantly more stringent lockdown measures.

That's the problem with being a centrist. People on the left and right don't like your views.

And again, it's a matter of perspective. If you're from a Rural area (Conservative) that hasn't been hit hard, you likely think this is overblown. And you're right. If you're from an Urban area (Liberal) that has been devastated, you likely think that a lockdown is appropriate (and you're also right.)

What's not okay is taking those opinions and dismantling factual information.

You go from a valid argument ("my community hasn't been hit hard, so I don't think lockdown measures are necessary here" to an invalid one ("the models were wrong")

I'm trying to get people to differentiate their opinions from facts. Bias is when you have an opinion then you selectively pick out facts.

Scott Adams has a very good talk on this subject.

I don't see why it's so hard to just say "Okay, New York City decided this is what's best for them... they probably know better than I do." just like people from New York City should say "Okay, Texas decided this is what's best for them... they probably know better than I do." You know.... considering they actually live there and have a better idea of what's going on.


I don't trust government. Government is the most crooked organization on the planet. I trust science. When government is informed by science, I trust government.. but only by proxy. It just so happens that this pandemic is largely informed by scientists. Okay.. they're 'government employed' but the scientists who are not government employees largely agree. I literally have no idea what the 'government employees experts' are saying, besides a few brief clips from Fauci.

My views on all these things (vaccines, etc) come from the scientific consensus, not because 'the government told me what to think,' and quite frankly that's insulting. I've spend my entire adult life listening to both arguments and actively seeking out dissenting views.

Persuasive Litigator

www.persuasivelitigator.com

My views aren't from government employed experts. I'm subscribed to many scientific journals and keep up-to-date with them. I don't even watch television, so I have no idea what news organizations are saying.

I don' think a lot people realize how much right wing bias this forum has. But this is one of the reasons I read here, because as far as being left goes, there are so many choices out there, but to get a somewhat intelligent view from the right side, this forum at least offers some perspective. But do take both side of the arguments and form our own opinions.

 

[Jake]

You and I going back and forth in this thread did us no good. How much value did we add to our existing businesses during this time? Instead of people suddenly turning into data scientists and doctors, we should focus on our own lives more.

Can't really know until the future. You need to create your own hypothesis before you can make decisions. You need to make the correct decisions based on what you think will happen in the future. It's important to analyze and investigate. Ecom sales have exploded here but how long before consumers run out of cash if things persist? Important to think about imo

 

[ChrisV]

People from the right wing believe "don't interfere with society" so it's no surprise they're anti-lockdown. People from the left wing believe that government can be a useful mediator, so it's no surprise

Both are simultaneously right.

I say let liberal areas be liberal, and let conservative areas be conservative.

I wrote a post about this on Medium a while back:



It makes complete sense though. Living in a city makes you see the value of public services and the positive side of government regulation, which is why Democrats take the stances they do. New Yorkers for example, rely on government services (buses, subway) to get them to and from work. The government keeps your streets clean, regulates parking, makes sure your landlord isn’t ripping you off, picks up the trash, makes sure your neighbors aren’t blasting Metallica at 3 AM. It’s no wonder city Democrats are okay with government regulation. But in rural areas it’s more like “this is my property, don’t tell me what to do.” That’s the reason Republicans tend to want a small government. But a city couldn’t survive without government regulation. In rural areas the extra regulation is irritating to them and nearly impossible to enforce.

The reason people choose one political party over the other.

Why do people choose one political party over the other? Well there are many aspects (such as theories regarding personality traits) but…

medium.com

@ChrisV you are someone I consider a very good friend, but, I vehemently disagree with nearly everything you are posting in this thread.

Of course you do. Because you're a conservative. I didn't expect anything different.

I say let liberal cities be liberal. Let conservative areas be conservative.

I've systematically she'd my political ideology over the years.

I'm from the suburbs of New York and come from a very conservative family.

When I moved closer to NYC over the years I developed liberal views.

Then in an effort to combat confirmation bias, I actively sought out conservative views.

I'm a libertarian, so I actively seek out Socialist speakers.

And you know what I've learned? Every group has valid points. And the biggest thing I've learned? Politics are opinions. Politics are simply opinions about policy. "This is what I believe the policy should be." They've no more factual than your taste in music.

Over the years I've developed very balanced views of things. Are they perfect? No. Do I still listen? Yes. I just don't necessarily feel like having a nuanced discussion about Big Pharma all the time, so I just state generalizations.

 

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[hellolin]

"Then in an effort to combat confirmation bias, I actively sought out conservative views. "

Yeah same here, the reason why I am here is to get a view of how the other side thinks, besides the non-sense religion all the time bullshit Fox news has. I would say most people here that comments often are sane conservative leaning folks, but if you asks me to actually live with them in a community? Probably not, I will stay where I am.

 

[Kak]

"Then in an effort to combat confirmation bias, I actively sought out conservative views. "

Yeah same here, the reason why I am here is to get a view of how the other side thinks, besides the non-sense religion all the time bullshit Fox news has. I would say most people here that comments often are sane conservative leaning folks, but if you asks me to actually live with them in a community? Probably not, I will stay where I am.

This pretty much says it all...

The intelligentsia has arrived. Are you enjoying the check we paid for?

 

[ChrisV]

"Then in an effort to combat confirmation bias, I actively sought out conservative views. "

Yeah same here, the reason why I am here is to get a view of how the other side thinks, besides the non-sense religion all the time bullshit Fox news has. I would say most people here that comments often are sane conservative leaning folks, but if you asks me to actually live with them in a community? Probably not, I will stay where I am.

I really like this post and think it fits in perfectly with the discussion here:

If you look at all the major political stance disagreements, you realize it much of it seems to stem from a city mentality vs a rural mentality. For example, gun control. Consider the contextual difference between a gun in rural areas vs a the city. A shotgun in a 2007 Chevy Bronco on their way to the woods has a completely different context than someone getting on the subway with a shotgun. Most Manhattan residents certainly don’t want someone getting on the subway with a shotgun. And someone’s rural, they sure as hell don’t want the government telling them they can’t have one. When it comes time to vote, the Democrat will think of a gun and say “ABSOLUTELY NOT” while the Republicans think about what a gun means and say “YOU BETTER NOT TAKE MY HUNTING/PROTECTION TOOL.” It’s no wonder Democrats will support a candidate that’s likely to be stricter on guns while Republicans vote for a candidate that promises to let them keep their guns.

The left tends to focus on the community. The right tends to focus on the individual. Which in the context of the urban/rural divide makes perfect sense. Living in the city you have to be more cooperative, and rural areas you have to be more independent. You have to cut your own grass, do your own hedges. You have to know how to fix cars. In the city everyone just specializes in a certain field and you bring it to that person. That happens in rural areas too, but it’s amplified in the city. The landlord calls the guy to fix your toilet or fix your stove. In rural areas? Most people just do it themselves unless it’s a serious problem.

You need peace to thrive. You need to ensure the safety of every individual because if one gets hurt, it hurts the entire group. But for example Liberals were against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, and generally when it comes to wars the vote is lighter coming from the left. The left prefers to be diplomatic and see if a solution can be met. It seems like a learned sense of diplomacy from having to live in such close quarters.

Environmental issues? Pollution? All make sense within the context of city life vs rural life. Even the cliché of a Toyota Prius driving liberal vs a Hemi Truck driving country boy makes perfect sense given limited space and resources in a city.

This is very important because it leads to the realization that the legal system doesn’t work the same for every area. National gun control laws irk people who simply want to go hunting, or want to go to the shooting range. But on the same note, a lack of gun control laws in an urban area would make people feel unsafe. Imagine if people were allowed to walk down 5th Ave with a shotgun. And imagine if people weren’t allowed to go hunting with a the same shotgun.

The reason that politics is such a touchy subject is that we all have to live under one roof. If there’s a left leaning president/senate/congress, they’re going to impose left leaning laws. Even in right leaning, rural states. Then you get all the people from rural, conservative backgrounds might chant “SCREW OBAMA,” or all the Urban Democrats who paint placards saying “I HATE BUSH.”

In a perfect government we should let each county determine each of it’s laws. Not only are there red counties and blue counties, but there are also infinite shades of purple in between.

 

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[hellolin]

opped edited due to repeated posts.

 

[hellolin]

I really like this post and think it fits in perfectly with the discussion here:

If you look at all the major political stance disagreements, you realize it much of it seems to stem from a city mentality vs a rural mentality. For example, gun control. Consider the contextual difference between a gun in rural areas vs a the city. A shotgun in a 2007 Chevy Bronco on their way to the woods has a completely different context than someone getting on the subway with a shotgun. Most Manhattan residents certainly don’t want someone getting on the subway with a shotgun. And someone’s rural, they sure as hell don’t want the government telling them they can’t have one. When it comes time to vote, the Democrat will think of a gun and say “ABSOLUTELY NOT” while the Republicans think about what a gun means and say “YOU BETTER NOT TAKE MY HUNTING/PROTECTION TOOL.” It’s no wonder Democrats will support a candidate that’s likely to be stricter on guns while Republicans vote for a candidate that promises to let them keep their guns.

The left tends to focus on the community. The right tends to focus on the individual. Which in the context of the urban/rural divide makes perfect sense. Living in the city you have to be more cooperative, and rural areas you have to be more independent. You have to cut your own grass, do your own hedges. You have to know how to fix cars. In the city everyone just specializes in a certain field and you bring it to that person. That happens in rural areas too, but it’s amplified in the city. The landlord calls the guy to fix your toilet or fix your stove. In rural areas? Most people just do it themselves unless it’s a serious problem.

You need peace to thrive. You need to ensure the safety of every individual because if one gets hurt, it hurts the entire group. But for example Liberals were against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, and generally when it comes to wars the vote is lighter coming from the left. The left prefers to be diplomatic and see if a solution can be met. It seems like a learned sense of diplomacy from having to live in such close quarters.

Environmental issues? Pollution? All make sense within the context of city life vs rural life. Even the cliché of a Toyota Prius driving liberal vs a Hemi Truck driving country boy makes perfect sense given limited space and resources in a city.

This is very important because it leads to the realization that the legal system doesn’t work the same for every area. National gun control laws irk people who simply want to go hunting, or want to go to the shooting range. But on the same note, a lack of gun control laws in an urban area would make people feel unsafe. Imagine if people were allowed to walk down 5th Ave with a shotgun. And imagine if people weren’t allowed to go hunting with a the same shotgun.

The reason that politics is such a touchy subject is that we all have to live under one roof. If there’s a left leaning president/senate/congress, they’re going to impose left leaning laws. Even in right leaning, rural states. Then you get all the people from rural, conservative backgrounds might chant “SCREW OBAMA,” or all the Urban Democrats who paint placards saying “I HATE BUSH.”

In a perfect government we should let each county determine each of it’s laws. Not only are there red counties and blue counties, but there are also infinite shades of purple in between.

We can't convince them, but it's ok, not here for that reason. It is always a good practice to get the other side's view sometime. I live close to a big city near the other coast and I pretty much holds the same view as you, and work in a similar capacity like you as well. If in the future I ever had to move to a smaller metro in middle America, this forum could help me adjust the mindset a bit. But as far as being in the coast and working near a large metro goes, this is pretty much the standard. I agree, I did not like the blatant support of Obama just because he is a minority from people in my camp either, but I also seeing the same from the other side right now with Trump. So yeah maybe not thinking like masses does make sense sometimes.

"The reason that politics is such a touchy subject is that we all have to live under one roof. "

Chris if you read all the replies to your posts, I think many posters here disagrees with that. But yes I do think you got it right.

 

[Jake]

This pretty much says it all...

The intelligentsia has arrived. Are you enjoying the check we paid for?

It's all fun until people without a job / people who's business has been deemed non-essential need to feed their kids. I guess his
Ideal community gets to sit at home and not pay for starving kids food because their parents business is non-essential. Producers take the hit in the U.S. The poor take the hit globally.

What about other countries that aren't as socialist as the U.S? Many countries "fall in line" with his way of thinking because other countries are looking at us. It is racking up a massive death toll not from the virus but from destruction of everything people have worked hard for. Stay at home is driving over a billion people towards the streets to find food at any costs.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

I agree that his forum leans right compared to other forums and social media sites , but that's mostly because other outlets lean so strongly left -- making this board seems ring-wing in comparison.

If anything, this board leans strongly libertarian.

 

[Kak]

I agree that his forum leans right compared to other forums and social media sites , but that's mostly because other outlets lean so strongly left -- making this board seems ring-wing in comparison.

If anything, this board leans strongly libertarian.

What is entrepreneurship without the freedom to conduct business?

 

[hellolin]

I agree that his forum leans right compared to other forums and social media sites , but that's mostly because other outlets lean so strongly left -- making this board seems ring-wing in comparison.

If anything, this board leans strongly libertarian.

The US isn't left at all when compared to the rest of the world, we might just be the most right-leaning country in the entire capitalist liberal democracy, and libertarian is a right-leaning ideology, just not that much when compared to say, whatever Fox news is.

And I will take bets while people think there are a less socialist state in the entire western world when compared to the US.....Perhaps Singapore? But it is only less socialist in terms of businesses, certainly isn't socially. Sweden maybe? I don't know. But let's say compare the US to the EU countries, which one would you guys rather do business in?

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

We are getting off-topic again.

In other news, I spoke to my mom yesterday, a nurse in Phoenix . She said that her rehab facility is overcrowded and full of REALLY sick people who are NOT C0VlD-19 patients as they cleared out the sickest patients from the main hospital. She said the nurses are stretched so thin, it would be like a kindergarten teacher with 90 students in the class.

While her facility is overwhelmed, the main hospital is almost completely empty with nurses furloughed including most of her nurse friends. My mom is frustrated that she is working longer hours in a far more stressful/risky environment for not much more pay than my brother is getting for staying home (he is a student who was furloughed as a restaurant server and gets $840 a week). She wants to quit due to the risks but wonders whether future employers would question her timing on her resumé, so she is actively courting other nursing jobs in order to make a lateral move to a less risky environment.

I previously made a post about how her employer had locked up all PPE early on. They were still restricting nurses from wearing masks (even their own) up until Friday (April 17) “because they didn’t want to scare the patients” and would not let them wear masks at all. Then, when the employer was able to procure some masks, they flipped the policy and required masks at all times, though still one N95 per nurse per shift. Now they are wearing an N95 mask under a cloth mask and all nurses are commenting about how uncomfortable the masks become after a 12 hour shift. Perhaps there is a business opportunity in developing effective masks that are more comfortable, especially on the bridge of the nose.

An infectious disease doctor visited the facility last week and demanded to know why none of the patients had been tested. The doctor ordered tests for all of the patients. One came back positive this week after the patient had already died, so my mom is now quarantining outside of work just in case. She said that it is hard to know that she is supposed to social distance 6ft at the grocery store and then go to work and have to be 6 inches from someone’s face in order to do some of the necessary procedures/actions.

For her, this whole thing has been a definite lose-lose situation.

 

[Jake]

The US isn't left at all when compared to the rest of the world, we might just be the most right-leaning country in the entire capitalist liberal democracy, and libertarian is a right-leaning ideology, just not that much when compared to say, whatever Fox news is.

And I will take bets while people think there are a less socialist state in the entire western world when compared to the US.....Perhaps Singapore? But it is only less socialist in terms of businesses, certainly isn't socially. Sweden maybe? I don't know. But let's say compare the US to the EU countries, which one would you guys rather do business in?

China seems more capitalistic lately . "we might just be the most right-leaning country in the entire capitalist liberal democracy" No idea where the this term came from..Can we call the U.S a Capitalistic Republic?? Comparing the U.S to the E.U is not a proper way to measure. Maybe compare us to our former self?

 

[MTF]

May we please stick to the thread instead of talking about politics? People who follow this thread for coronavirus updates need to navigate through a maze of irrelevant posts.

Actually, I think the diamond princess is more distressing than comforting in outlook. As I’ve said before, the problem with this disease is that you HAVE to keep watching to know what really is going on. It has been 2 months since the diamond princess saga began. That article you reference is from 3/26. SInce that time the death toll has risen to 13, or 1.8%. 4 remain serious/critical, being sick do long they are likely not to survive. But all we can say is minimum death rate was 1.8%, maximum 2.4%. Average age of passenger on the cruise as I recall was 56, which will increase death rate some compared to the general population.

As far as the antibody test, it would have made zero sense (and it wasn’t developed yet anyway) to test passengers for antibodies. It takes weeks for antibodies to appear after infection. That’s why they did the viral rna PCR test, looking for actual infection. If passengers left the ship and were negative for covid 19 by PCR, one would assume that a positive antibody test done today would have been due to a subsequent infection rather than from the diamond princess.

Antibody studies by Stanford, USC, and Mass General in Chealsy suggests good news for lower mortality rates, but the sample sizes are low which can cause major errors from bias. But even the most optimistic from Mass General (Chelsea) suggests antibody positive rate of 30% of the population (14,000). So if we accept actual infected to 30% of Chelsea (14,000), we can calculate current death rate of 0.3%. But as pointed out above in the diamond princess, this is a long disease and the 0.3% is likely to rise to more like 0.5%+.

There are two more ships that may provide data more applicable to the general population since they're both military ships with a younger crew (compared to pensioners on a cruise ship): USS Theodore Roosevelt and French Charles de Gaulle and its escort, frigate Chevalier Paul.

As for Roosevelt, 840 sailors tested positive (out of roughly 4,800 people). So far 88 have recovered, 4 are in the hospital (not ICU), and one died last week. So far mortality rate is 0.12% but it's obviously too early to draw any conclusions.
source: Navy says entire USS Theodore Roosevelt crew has been tested for coronavirus

As for de Gaulle and Chevalier Paul, so far 1,046 tested positive (out of 2,300) but they're still waiting for 930 more test results. Almost 50% of them are symptom-free. 24 were hospitalized, one is in ICU.

source: How an Invisible Foe Slipped Aboard a French Navy Ship

https://www.france24.com/en/2020041...carrier-group-crew-test-positive-for-C0VlD-19

 

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[Kak]

What does NYC and Wuhan have in common? What does the WHO have to say about these wet markets? Did the SARS outbreak in the early 2000's also originate from the wet markets? This is enough to make you go full out vegetarian.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_t83cF30XU

Yikes... You aren't kidding...

I saw that the WHO deemed them essential businesses after calling them a ticking time bomb for disease...

 

[Kak]

On a positive note ya’all have inspired me to read Atlas Shrugged again.
History is already starting to reveal the collective got nearly all aspects of this wrong.

Atlas is about to shrug... Mark my words.

 

[GIlman]

In a perfect government we should let each county determine each of it’s laws. Not only are there red counties and blue counties, but there are also infinite shades of purple in between.

This is why the federal government was meant to have extremely limited power by the framers of the constitution. Most of what California and NY do I have zero interest in, and that’s fine, so long as Arizona can do as we wish. So many of our problems today exist because we have been forced under one roof by federal expansion. I’ve read a lot of early writing of the framers and their desire for almost all power at the state level is clear, and probably would solve most political problems we had today if it was still the case.

 

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[ChrisV]

This is why the federal government was meant to have extremely limited power by the framers of the constitution. Most of what California and NY do I have zero interest in, and that’s fine, so long as Arizona can do as we wish. So many of our problems today exist because we have been forced under one roof by federal expansion. I’ve read a lot of early writing of the framers and their desire for almost all power at the state level is clear, and probably would solve most political problems we had today if it was still the case.

I'm a firm believer in freedom.

And that freedom includes the freedom to elect a government that that society feels represents them.

There's a strong conservative argument to be made for liberals being allowed to elect a liberal government.

 

[Kak]

Concerning the "political compass test" 9 out 10 questions on that thing are loaded. It has extreme bias.

"All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind. "

"People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce."

"The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline."

"First-generation immigrants can never be fully integrated within their new country."

"Although the electronic age makes official surveillance easier, only wrongdoers need to be worried."

"Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers. "

I am assuming that agreeing to this malarkey makes you a conservative.

@ChrisV this thing is a JOKE

 

[ChrisV]

this thing is a JOKE

If you have a better one I'll check it out.

 

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[Longinus]

There's a bunch of posts deleted in this thread. I thought this was not done on this forum, or are cringy posts from moderators an exception?

Would it be possible to remove account and posts?

Due to a change in career, I'm trying to remove any information about myself from the internet. So it would be much appreciated if the mods could remove my account and posts. I did notice this thread...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The least you can do is to give an explanation.

 

[GIlman]

May we please stick to the thread instead of talking about politics? People who follow this thread for coronavirus updates need to navigate through a maze of irrelevant posts.
There are two more ships that may provide data more applicable to the general population since they're both military ships with a younger crew (compared to pensioners on a cruise ship): USS Theodore Roosevelt and French Charles de Gaulle and its escort, frigate Chevalier Paul.

As for Roosevelt, 840 sailors tested positive (out of roughly 4,800 people). So far 88 have recovered, 4 are in the hospital (not ICU), and one died last week. So far mortality rate is 0.12% but it's obviously too early to draw any conclusions.
source: Navy says entire USS Theodore Roosevelt crew has been tested for coronavirus

As for de Gaulle and Chevalier Paul, so far 1,046 tested positive (out of 2,300) but they're still waiting for 930 more test results. Almost 50% of them are symptom-free. 24 were hospitalized, one is in ICU.

source: How an Invisible Foe Slipped Aboard a French Navy Ship

https://www.france24.com/en/2020041...carrier-group-crew-test-positive-for-C0VlD-19

Very good point, although these will provide a younger skewed “experiment”. Mortality rate of 0.12% for this very young leaning population would still be pretty high, although I believe the person that died was somewhat older than the bulk of the very young crew (40’s 50’s as I recall).

I will keep an eye on these two ships as well, it’s some of the best datasets we have, just have to keep o. Mind the demographic slew of all of them.

@Trevor Kuntz your mom is in a tough situation. Here is Arizona that’s how it has been. Hospitals are empty’ish. Nurses, techs, etc...are being furloughed. Many furloughed are getting a big chunk of their pay between stimulus, state, and federal unemployment benefits. But...are not having to work or have exposure risk.

Those that are working, many of them are being asked to take sharp pay cuts because the normal cash flow has plummeted. Hospitals profitable in February hemorrhaged millions in March.

Talking to people furloughed and on unemployment (even outside of health care), many are happy with the status quo. Much of their paycheck and all of their time. Many on this forum are employing CENTS to try and build a life of time freedom. I wonder how many people will discover how to live more minimalistic lives in one parent working homes. Seems many parents are enjoying being at home spending time and raising their kids.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

This is why the federal government was meant to have extremely limited power by the framers of the constitution. Most of what California and NY do I have zero interest in, and that’s fine, so long as Arizona can do as we wish. So many of our problems today exist because we have been forced under one roof by federal expansion. I’ve read a lot of early writing of the framers and their desire for almost all power at the state level is clear, and probably would solve most political problems we had today if it was still the case.

There was really good quote along these same lines from a The New Yorker article on Nassim Taleb a couple days ago.

Here is the quote:

"Anyone who has read the Federalist Papers can see what he’s getting at. The “separation of powers” is hardly the most efficient form of government; getting something done entails a complex, time-consuming process of building consensus among distributed centers of authority. But James Madison understood that tyranny—however distant it was from the minds of likely Presidents in his own generation—is so calamitous to a republic, and so incipient in the human condition, that it must be structurally mitigated."

Here is the article: The Pandemic Isn’t a Black Swan but a Portent of a More Fragile Global System

The US

There's a bunch of posts deleted in this thread. I thought this was not done on this forum, or are cringy posts from moderators an exception?

Would it be possible to remove account and posts?

Due to a change in career, I'm trying to remove any information about myself from the internet. So it would be much appreciated if the mods could remove my account and posts. I did notice this thread...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The least you can do is to give an explanation.

I would bet that the future red giant Sun will envelope the earth before you get an explanation about why Vigilante deleted his posts and my posts and Gilman's posts, but good luck. My stupid comments will remain forever, but Vigilante's asinine statements are gone into the ether.

 

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[GIlman]

I would bet that the future red giant Sun will envelope the earth before you get an explanation about why Vigilante deleted his posts and my posts and Gilman's posts, but good luck. My stupid comments will remain forever, but Vigilante's asinine statements are gone into the ether.

I guess there is a little FaceBook philosophy everyone on the internet, it’s unavoidable. I don’t use Facebook for this very reason. I don’t want what I’m seeing filtered or manicured. I want to see the sausage factory as it where, not some pretty end product Sterilized of the reality of how it was produced.

That’s why FLF has been about the only Social Media places I have read or contributed, but even then...

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

There's a bunch of posts deleted in this thread. I thought this was not done on this forum, or are cringy posts from moderators an exception?

Would it be possible to remove account and posts?

Due to a change in career, I'm trying to remove any information about myself from the internet. So it would be much appreciated if the mods could remove my account and posts. I did notice this thread...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The least you can do is to give an explanation.

This needs its own thread. It's not why I joined the forum.

From my understanding @GIlman is one of the few actual doctors on here. I don't understand why his posts and opinions are being deleted.

@Vigilante

 

[Dan_Fastlane]

There's a bunch of posts deleted in this thread. I thought this was not done on this forum, or are cringy posts from moderators an exception?

Would it be possible to remove account and posts?

Due to a change in career, I'm trying to remove any information about myself from the internet. So it would be much appreciated if the mods could remove my account and posts. I did notice this thread...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The least you can do is to give an explanation.

This needs its own thread. It's not why I joined the forum.

From my understanding @GIlman is one of the few actual doctors on here. I don't understand why his posts and opinions are being deleted.

@Vigilante

integrity has left the chat?

 

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[samuraijack]

This needs its own thread. It's not why I joined the forum.

From my understanding @GIlman is one of the few actual doctors on here. I don't understand why his posts and opinions are being deleted.

@Vigilante

View: https://giphy.com/gifs/michael-jackson-comments-popcorn-pUeXcg80cO8I8

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

There's a bunch of posts deleted in this thread. I thought this was not done on this forum, or are cringy posts from moderators an exception?

Would it be possible to remove account and posts?

Due to a change in career, I'm trying to remove any information about myself from the internet. So it would be much appreciated if the mods could remove my account and posts. I did notice this thread...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The least you can do is to give an explanation.

This needs its own thread. It's not why I joined the forum.

These posts about to get disappeared faster than a Wuhan whistleblower...