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HOT TOPIC The road to wealth is simple: Drive a crappy car

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Elsa

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Yea I drive an old car. Have had it for years, everything works and it runs. That's good enough for me.

So many guys, so many people I know fall into the car trap. Every year or two it's time for a new car! Like their old one is just not good enough any more. Even though their old one is way newer and nicer than my old one. They sometimes gloat and brag about their cars but it doesn't phase me. In the next breath they're griping about their insurance and car payment.

Toys can wait. If you can't delay gratification then I can almost guarantee you'll never be successful. If the car doesn't seem cheap to you, don't buy it. If you have 10k your car should be 1-2k, not 10k.

I just hate seeing it. Guys go down this road of ever escalating one-upmanship. Part of it is arrogance and ego but the worst of it is the almost lusting for the status and dominance that car provides. Because nothing screams insecure quite like having a car you have to work a hated job to afford. The sidewalker walks on the increasing debt treadmill until it's an all consuming void.
fully agree with you.
I live in a country where "image" is so important.
which means you see guys leasing 120K cars, while they earn 3000$ a month. and then what happens? they have the nice cars, but they cannot afford good restaurants, they take their lunch with them to work. I have dated guys like these, and they never made it to the boyfriend stage. They buy these cars to attract "beautiful women" and "high status women", but as you said, nothing screams as insecure as someone driving this type of car and immediately getting scared when the woman is used to dining in nice restaurants. Of course they lose both ways in this case; they lost money and time in their 8-10h jobs, and they didn't even get a quality woman.
but at least they have the car now (sarcasm)
 

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ChrisGav

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So true.
Funny thing is, everyone is always trying to flex for people we don't even actually like. Go buy a nice a$$ car that you can hardly afford for what? So the guys that made fun of you that you don't even like can envy you a little bit? And then when you go broke because of this shiny object they shit on you even more.
 

ExecutionisKing

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This is always a good topic for me because I am a car guy and I love cars but one thing I love more is no car payment. Everyone I know wants the newest car around me and keeps asking me when I will buy a new car. I always tell them, there is nothing wrong with my car, it is reliable and I only drive 15 miles a day. I've had it for 14 years now, paid $5k cash for it, it is still worth $5k (to a car enthusiast) with 326k miles on it.
Totally agree on the payment. As an avid car-guy, it wasn’t new, it was classic/fast/both that I wanted. That was what took the discipline for me; not avoiding new, but denying myself speed beyond my budget, upfront or with repairs.
Parents never supported that sort of use-without-ownership-debt for me- many years ago- they’d never leased a car in their life.
Leasing wasn’t removed from the table- it was never there to begin with. Like @MJ DeMarco says about the battle for junk food. The highest odds of you winning means having the fight at the store, not when you open the refrigerator door.
Often enough I find that the people always urging me to get the latest and greatest are just seeking peer justification for their own latest fantasies, en-route to their (shiny) slowlane route.


My favorite line from people that have the new cars is "i have a new car and I never put money it." That is true but your car also cost you $40k (more if you're paying interest), you will sell it in few years for maybe $20k, so technically your maintenance free car cost you about $20k during that time minus oil changes are required maintenance that every car needs".

That one makes my eyes do painful things in the top of my head, I know discussions end there often. Sometimes it’s true naivete, sometimes it's a slowlane plan, other times ego; rarely is it an open mind willing to consider data and sacrifice.

Among the many cars I’ve had and sold, I remember a guy in his 30’s getting his dad to loan him some money for it.
This one seemed to be some slowlane and some ego- the somewhat arrogant laugh, smile, tone of voice and phrasing, as he told his son, “Johnny, are you sure you want a loan…for this…recycled car?”
Sounds like a phrase you use for a car at the junkyard after it’s been crushed...
Anyways, talking later, turns out the guy wasn’t rich, just a more dignified presentation (before that line) of a slowlaner, not even pointing towards the 30k millionaire zone.



I was like, "Of course it doesn't define who I am!"

To me, all it is is a four-wheeled machine with an engine that gets me from point A from point B.

The car I drive says nothing about my worth, my value as a human being, or my identity.

If anything, what it says about me is, "I care about efficiency, I hate wastefulness, and if I'm in the process of building something great for myself, my car is going to rob the very LEAST possible amount of money from my venture."

Yeah, I respect the different viewpoint. It’s incredible what narratives humans come up with to justify their decisions, myself certainly included, though I work to prevent disempowering ones. The self-image is crazy powerful, Dr. Maltz’s book was a game-changer back in the day.
Anyways, the focus on efficiency and elimination of wastefulness is 1 story and it fits the eco-driver as well as the bootstrapper, quite well and I would embrace the latter use.
On the other hand, imagine even a low budget car scene- probably wouldn’t be a narrative they could wear with pride, but their goals probably don’t reach this part of the universe. Smart and calculated decisions are the way to go:thumbsup:

The identity line I grappled with before- I like it and agree, but when the passion is that strong, it made me wonder. I had to accept that having that fiery passion and wanting to spend the money there in the future was NOT AT ALL wrong, but I’d never reach that destination, acting on that passion in the short term.


Sometimes the most obvious things are what set us back the most.

Note to self: Beware of Engel's law -- stay within your means as your income increases. Cash is still king.

And right now, no car works better than a crappy car at my current standing in life.

Always fun to find laws noting sensible if rarely used financial principles. The phrase that stuck with me was “control thy expenditures” from richest man in Babylon- “..what each of us calls our 'necessary expenses' will always grow to equal our incomes unless we protest to the contrary..”
 
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ExecutionisKing

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The way I look at cars... I just think they are all pieces of crap. New cars, old cars, luxury cars... Whatever. They are all junk.

Usefulness is always my primary criteria.

I view an airplane as an investment and a car as just me spending on myself.

I'm a frugal guy, I hate spending money on myself. It is killing the golden goose. The opportunity cost of spending on yourself is massive.


Wow, that’s almost nihilistic for me, but I like the clarity that perspective could bring. Not my view at all, but I've appreciated your contributions long before this post, thanks for another.
So, airplanes depreciate massively too- is that an investment because it’s not A to B, but A to Z to H rapidly- basically, buying back your time and making you more efficient? Is that opportunity cost ever be acceptable to you at a certain net worth? Whether a nice car, your own jet, chartering a jet, etc… or is business-use the only allowed criteria?

Me being a car guy... this is really hard. My first car, which I bought earlier this year, is a Jaguar F-Type R - 550HP, V8 supercharged... wow... give's me shakes every time I drive it.

But exotics and supercars should not be included in scope of this article as anyone driving a lambo, Ferrari, r8, etc. is most likely not living on the streets or pay cheque to pay cheque.

And if you're making enough money to comfortable finance/lease an exotic or supercar and you LOVE cars, then I say don't hold back... I don't think there is a "perfect" time as we have no clue when we'll be put to rest...

Yeah, the shakes, I’m feeling em through my screen. The financing game is pretty wild now and it can be done affordably like you did. Generally I agree, supercars are pretty tough to fake in the long run, though one could argue financing it isn't "real," but it could mean someone has 30-40k/yr for car payments.
Yeah, a mixture of discipline and reward- I always worry I will wait too long and miss the right window. When I dug into it for me, that time in particular was more of an urge/excuse to pull the trigger too soon, with some type of yolo battle cry..





Personally I love cars. Sports/Luxury cars in particular. I really don't feel right in a cheap economy car.. I've had them (97 Camry) and while I enjoy the reliability, ultimately I need something that I can enjoy a long night drive with and stand out in. Something that I can be proud of, that I can have fun in, it's more than A to B for me. There's nothing like rowing through gears at night with the top down and engine roaring. Or just cruising in luxury. Driving gives me a lot of enjoyment. Plus I just love cars, and am kinda of an enthusiast for euro/jap cars.

You hit the nail on the head here for me in a few ways, though I find the "proud of" can be a sly trap.. but REALLY about the gear rowing. I’m impressed how little power I really need for that to be fun. It’s definitely hard to treat an economy car like a sports car, but give me a manual..and my imagination will put on quite a performance…

I really don't think it has to cost a fortune to own something fun or decently nice. A little know-how on finding good deals and a slight mechanical inclination goes a long way. 5k can buy me something I'd enjoy driving so much more than a new Camry, etc. for 20k+

For $1900 I get to have a car I want to be seen in, feel good in and enjoy driving. Also when I'm done having fun I can sell it and profit. The car will be worth $5000 easily. A little hustle is all it took to avoid driving an old Toyota econobox that I would dread driving daily and spend the same amount of money on.
In a way I think there's a positive to insist on driving something nicer in that you're setting a standard for yourself. It drives you to reach that standard. You do not allow yourself to live below this standard. Of course it's within reason - would be idiotic to go broke because you insisted upon a 2019 S-Class and couldn't afford it.


Your MR2 is a great example. That is basically how I put myself through college, undervalued or unassembled deals like that, back to back, cashing out just in time to make a tuition payment.

That scale though, is SPOT ON. 5k to me is 20k, that’s my value scale- 4-6x. Of course I want to be at the point where I can spend 200k on them and not miss it, but that’s the pleasure scale I realized I seem to extract from each vehicle, 4-6x, the 50k lease is worth about 8 to me in pleasure from something older I'd find. Cars do drive me towards any action/achievement more than almost anything else in life, pun not intended.. great job on this one. My friend sold his yellow MR2 just the other day- it’s a blast.

Do you do this often with fun cars as a hobby.. or is this buy-overhaul-enjoy more of a first time that you think you want to make into a pattern?
 

Esoteric Wealth

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Do you do this often with fun cars as a hobby.. or is this buy-overhaul-enjoy more of a first time that you think you want to make into a pattern?

I've been doing it ever since my first car with the help of my dad initially. 2001 Mercedes E430 (8 Cylinder), $3000. Needed an air compressor and few bits and bobs. Replaced them ourselves. Despite being an automatic, I had so much fun in that car. Great memories made. Next was a 1997 BMW 328i manual, bought cheap and gave some TLC. Loads of fun too.

I agree with you on cars that have a manual transmission making it way more tolerable. I had a 97 Camry 5-speed manual, and while it was not a sports car and FWD, I still enjoyed it very much - all due to the three pedal dance!
 

Real Deal Denver

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That's how I look at it. It doesn't matter what car I look at, all I see is all the BS wasted time and money it represents in my life. Time and money at mechanics. Time and money in traffic. I had to get the AC rebuilt in my Toyota last year, and honestly, having my life totally disrupted for a week pissed me off way more than the $1100 I spent.

Same thing with houses. Been house shopping with the wife for the last month. We went to look at a place this weekend that was a "deal" on paper. 225k. Every other house in the neighborhood is 280-300. When time came to approve the offer, all I could think was: I'm gonna spend 30k to get this thing off the ground, then have to pay $1500/mo to the bank, $600/mo in taxes, then I'm gonna have to spend another 30k getting repairs done. And what's my payoff for all of this? What's my big prize? I get to spend every weekend doing yard work and fixing whatever happens to break, all for the privilege of watching that $6700/year in property taxes go to $10k over the next 4-5 years.

I tried talking the wife into buying and living in an RV later that night. For real. I would live under a bridge to avoid mowing grass. Unless you're someone the finds yard work somehow zen, I can't think of a bigger waste of time than lawn mowing. It's like being an unpaid hairdresser for the earth. Eff that.

/RANT OVER

You are a fascinating person. I wish we could talk over a couple of beers - I'll buy.

The reason I think that way is you think exactly the opposite of how I do. What is so bad about mowing the grass? It's not hard, and it has always given me great satisfaction in seeing a well-groomed yard when I was done.

So if you hate mowing grass, what do you do with your free time then? You are a very interesting person - looking forward to your response.
 

G-Man

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You are a fascinating person. I wish we could talk over a couple of beers - I'll buy.

The reason I think that way is you think exactly the opposite of how I do. What is so bad about mowing the grass? It's not hard, and it has always given me great satisfaction in seeing a well-groomed yard when I was done.

So if you hate mowing grass, what do you do with your free time then? You are a very interesting person - looking forward to your response.
LOL - usually I get called something along the lines of surly, which is probably accurate. You’re right, it’s not hard, and fresh cut grass smells good. It’s not the work itself, it’s the thought that it’s make-work that I can’t get over. It’s all in my head, I know.

Don’t have much free time. I work 60ish hrs a week in my day job, and have probably spent more than half of the last two weeks packing FBA shipments and dealing with returns in the evenings. After that, I’ve got two children under 3.

Maybe when I start making enough money to tell the boss to eff off I’ll start enjoying grass mowing :rofl:
 

ExecutionisKing

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What is so bad about mowing the grass? It's not hard, and it has always given me great satisfaction in seeing a well-groomed yard when I was done.
Definitely true...and the satisfaction or pride of accomplishment is important for people to find in their life, as seen in these articles with supporting surveys here and there..

To me, that doesn't seem to consider the intensity and efficiency needed to achieve life goals, like delegating out tasks distracting you from mma (money making activities), whether:
a) an endured nuisance chore
b)not calculating your time's value to know when it's > money "saved," or
c) it's a task you enjoy so much, even though the time outlay exceeds the money you'd spend on a solution.

So if you hate mowing grass, what do you do with your free time then?
This caught my eye.

How can we view ANY time ever be free, when time is limited and we don't control it?
By free, do you mean "non-employer-compensated time"?
If you have absolutely everything you want in life and owe no one, you'd definitely have the freedom to choose how your time is spent- is that what you meant?

Is the satisfaction of cutting the grass worth the hours spent each month? Year? Decade?
What about cooking, house cleaning? Depends where you are in life, where you want to go & how quickly.
So many end of life regrets hinge on unfinished plans, all of which take time or money, which so many of us (myself included) have wasted, throughout life.

If time goes by in the blink of an eye, how much time will we blow on menial, unfulfilling work (beyond a position of necessity)?

Maybe lawn mowing is on that list of enjoyment>time spent for you, not at all intending to pick on you, I have my own activities in this category. I have been working towards hourly price targets, to help me know when to stop tasks exceeding my hourly value at that intersection in life.

My favorite quotes on this are from Ben Franklin "lost time is never found again" and from Thoreau "as if you could kill time without injuring eternity."
Helps me shake some insignificant tasks from my clutching fingers (no thread subject pun intended).

A businessman on social media I follow reflected back on his growing son, saying,
"I realize I only have so many “16 year windows of time“ left in my life" and being closer to the sons age then his, it hit me pretty hard.. here if you want to see.

That's how I look at it. It doesn't matter what car I look at, all I see is all the BS wasted time and money it represents in my life. Time and money at mechanics. Time and money in traffic. I had to get the AC rebuilt in my Toyota last year, and honestly, having my life totally disrupted for a week pissed me off way more than the $1100 I spent.

You also made a great point about long-term homeownerships cost/value in this post, but my interest here is the car- the time and money in traffic (agreed) at mechanics (agreed)- isn't this all less time and money than the increase in time and inconvenience that walking or bicycling everywhere would be?

Uninterrupted time is valuable, I get that. I took this to mean that you didn't think the car was useful, as opposed to the situation was a headache to deal with. I gravitated toward the former, since it was a response to Kak's post, seeing cars as junk/waste/him spending on himself.
Also this quote, which leaves me both inspired & slightly confused (about the plane), in my last post on this page).
The way I look at cars... I just think they are all pieces of crap. New cars, old cars, luxury cars... Whatever. They are all junk.

Usefulness is always my primary criteria.

I view an airplane as an investment and a car as just me spending on myself.

I'm a frugal guy, I hate spending money on myself. It is killing the golden goose. The opportunity cost of spending on yourself is massive.
 
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biophase

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I'm a member of a 4runner group on Facebook. There was a post last week that asked everyone what their payments were on their 4runner. It was crazy to see so many high payments on there. But more interesting is the amount of differing opinions on financing vs cash.

Just some answers...
1195 a month 2018 pro. Lol no my credit isnt f*cked and no i didnt put a dollar down.
$613.87/mo. My previous car was totaled and I had no time to gather a down payment, though.
I'm just here to read all the liars who either paid cash or have a 0% loan lol. Nobody is going to admit the truth lmao
$625, just paid it off. Never again. Dave Ramsey for life now.
I pay 900-1,000 a month. ‘18 TRD-OR. Trying to pay it off before putting too much more $$$ into mods.
$800 mo for my 2016 basic SR5 . But worth every penny.
2019 TRD Premium @ $525/mo with $7,000 down. Just purchased a week ago.

Anytime someone paid cash, they were called a liar or dumb for not taking out a low interest loan.
 

csalvato

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Anytime someone paid cash, they were called a liar or dumb for not taking out a low interest loan.

I personally really struggle with the logic that it's better to take out a loan at 3-5% than it is to not have debt.

I mean, I understand it in theory, and probably makes sense if you take no risks but having that level of debt carries so much extra weight/burden with it, especially on a depreciating asset like a car.
 

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Bones81

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I remember when I was 23 and got my first job out of college which paid $33k a year. I immediately went out and financed a $20k used BMW. Fortunately I wised up pretty quickly; still drive a BMW but it's a 2007 that I bought 10 years ago for cash.

Goal now is to build a business that generates so much value, I can buy a slightly used Audi A7 and it's a financial non-event.
 
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Kak

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I personally really struggle with the logic that it's better to take out a loan at 3-5% than it is to not have debt.

I mean, I understand it in theory, and probably makes sense if you take no risks but having that level of debt carries so much extra weight/burden with it, especially on a depreciating asset like a car.

Agreed. If a car is THAT massive of a financial decision for someone that they need to do calculus over the numbers, they should be buying the cheapest thing that reliably works for their needs.

Cash, lease or finance, it is just a damn car not some fifth limb. You will survive without having a car that is as ”prestigious” as your neighbor. There is no actual expectation to uphold. There is no image that needs to be portrayed and people that research cars day in and day out to hopefully save a grand when they go to pull the trigger are severely wasting their time.
 

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When I quit my slowlane job a few years back the car I had went back to them. My GF was 6 months pregnant, and I had no means of getting a loan to buy a car so I caught the bus or uber for the next 18 months, until my business was in a position to get me one. We lived in the city so my GF and I would walk everywhere, her car sat there more than it got used.

LOL - usually I get called something along the lines of surly, which is probably accurate. You’re right, it’s not hard, and fresh cut grass smells good. It’s not the work itself, it’s the thought that it’s make-work that I can’t get over. It’s all in my head, I know.

Don’t have much free time. I work 60ish hrs a week in my day job, and have probably spent more than half of the last two weeks packing FBA shipments and dealing with returns in the evenings. After that, I’ve got two children under 3.

Maybe when I start making enough money to tell the boss to eff off I’ll start enjoying grass mowing :rofl:

I had a mortgage for 10 years and spent too long in my 20's mowing and gardening, I can't stand it! Now I rent and a gardener is included, they even clean the gutters.
 

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Had a guy hit my Volvo in traffic today, on my way to a client. The hazard lights automatically turned on, so the car definitely registered it as a crash.

I got out. Took a look. Some of his black paint scraped into my headlight.

f*ck it.

I waved it off. Got back in the car, and kept driving. There's not enough time in a day to worry about scratches.
 

ExecutionisKing

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Cash lease or finance, it is just a damn car, not some fifth limb.
You will survive without having a car that is as ”prestigious” as your neighbor.
There is no actual expectation to uphold.
There is no image that needs to be portrayed
How many industries would collapse, what would the world look like, if people lived out this belief...Wow:fire:
Great reality-grounding, even if a favorite topic of mine is a casualty.

Goal now is to build a business that generates so much value, I can buy a slightly used Audi A7 and it's a financial non-event.
Financial non-event- I like that term, more than "irrelevant," or other names I'd have given it..:)
I had a mortgage for 10 years and spent too long in my 20's mowing and gardening, I can't stand it! Now I rent and a gardener is included, they even clean the gutters.
Agreed. I'd think this view would be more prevalent. Not many people in life can call lawn-mowing part of their zone of genius. Competence, sure. Excellence? Maybe. Genius? I hope not..

The hazard lights automatically turned on, so the car definitely registered it as a crash. Got back in the car, and kept driving. There's not enough time in a day to worry about scratches.
I'm guessing that while the car registered the contact, the airbags weren't set off? Would the same minor damage/no one hurt with deployed airbags warrant a stop, so they could be returned to original condition?
 

Real Deal Denver

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I personally really struggle with the logic that it's better to take out a loan at 3-5% than it is to not have debt.

I mean, I understand it in theory, and probably makes sense if you take no risks but having that level of debt carries so much extra weight/burden with it, especially on a depreciating asset like a car.

It's nice if you can not have a payment, and not have it drain your reserves. But.

I live at the other end of the spectrum. I try to draw things out to have as little effect on me as possible. I try to keep my options open as much as possible. No restraints to bind me - and as much cash flow as possible.

In practice, this means my car loan costs me $22 in interest last month. I can handle that. Is it $22 that is going out the window every month? Yes, it is. I don't care. I would rather have the cash on hand to use for something, and I have a long list of somethings.

For house loans, I am amazed at how somebody thinks they will be getting ahead by taking out the shortest mortgage term possible. Keep your options open. Take out the longest mortgage term you can get. IF you want to pay it off faster, go ahead. But if things go bad for whatever reason, you don't HAVE TO make that large payment. Don't lock yourself into large payments, and don't drain your cash resources. You are in charge at all times. You don't have to take out a 15-year mortgage to pay it off in 15 years. You can pay a 30-year mortgage off in 10 years if you want to. Or eight. Or 20. Keep your options open.

Here are two situations which I have encountered. The first couple buys a house, which is the most expensive one they can afford, and takes out the shortest mortgage, which makes their payments as high as possible - which locks them into a... script? The second couple buys a nice house, but does not buy the most expensive one they can afford, and gets a 30-year mortgage. The second couple has time and money resources they can tap into, so they fix their house up and it becomes a beautiful home. The second couple sells their home in 7 years (which is the national average) and pockets $120K - then repeats the same cycle - this time buying a nicer home for an even lower payment, because they use the $120K they received from the sale of their first home. The second couple enjoys an even more fun and comfortable lifestyle because they are not shackled by the tight restraints couple one is still living with. The second couple does this two more times, and eventually, ends up living in a very upscale home that is paid for at the same time the first couple pays their super saver mortgage off. Now each couple has a home that is paid for, but the second couple lives in a much nicer home in an exclusive gated community. The second couple paid more interest on their mortgage, and more closing costs every time they took out a new mortgage. They were scammed by the system - used - taken advantage of. The first couple watched every penny they spent and didn't spend more than they had to on anything.

I keenly observed my elders saving every penny for a rainy day as I was growing up. They did not live a life of luxury by any means. Some things are just worth paying extra for. Some things are worth enjoying. Pay the fare and enjoy life. They say that a fool and his money will soon part. But have you ever noticed that most fools are pretty damn happy?

26246
 

ExecutionisKing

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I try to draw things out to have as little effect on me as possible. I try to keep my options open as much as possible. No restraints to bind me - and as much cash flow as possible.
In practice, this means my car loan costs me $22 in interest last month. I can handle that. Is it $22 that is going out the window every month? Yes, it is. I don't care. I would rather have the cash on hand to use for something, and I have a long list of somethings.

This. Agreed. Arguably less wise, I'm considering arranging to pay rent with a credit card going forward. It's *possible* I earn enough reward points to cover fees, but it's likely to add up about $100/yr net. Doing so to further build credit, though the idea is a bit far out and I'm still crunching numbers.

Also, what factors do you take into consideration regarding your earlier comments about time, @Real Deal Denver ? Sounds like you've given a lot of thought to your financial moves and what benefits/sacrifices accompany them. My (typically) verbose comments may be uninformed there. This forum & many resources helped me value time far more, but I don't know how you value your time, beyond the common phrase above.


The second couple paid more interest on their mortgage, and more closing costs every time they took out a new mortgage. They were scammed by the system - used - taken advantage of. They say that a fool and his money will soon part. But have you ever noticed that most fools are pretty damn happy?

Was the 2nd couple scammed? Doesn't that blame the system? I thought it seemed more fair to blame themselves for not seeking counsel before these big decisions.
True, I'd guess being a fool is quite a ride, until the music stops.
Or as Buffett says, "Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked."
 
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Real Deal Denver

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Was the 2nd couple scammed? Doesn't that blame the system? I thought it seemed more fair to blame themselves for not seeking counsel before these big decisions.

Should have been more clear. Sarcasm.

The second couple took action, and over the long run were wildly more successful than the penny pinchers that watch how every dime is spent. And CERTAINLY happier!

I am a great admirer of Warren, so I like your quote!

Here's one that I live by that you may appreciate. It's not what you do in life that you may regret, it's what you could have done but didn't. (Might involve risk - might get a skinned knee... etc.)
 

MythOfSisyphus

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I still can't bring myself to buy a new car and I'm not sure that will change until I'm at the point where I have hundreds of thousands of purely passive income coming in every year.

I always buy 2nd hand cars around 4-5 years old and then keep them for at least 5 years before upgrading.
 

Ing

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I allways drove old cars for max 2000. So I allways repaired old cars.
Once, in 2005 I bought a new one. From there on... I repaired a new car. Until it was old. Still have it now. And repairing old cars is much more satisfying than new cars. It makes more sence!;)
 

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Kal-El1998

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My goal is to pay off my current car in the next few months. It'll be worth 14-16k for trade in. Then between that time and the end of next year I want to save up another 10-15k so I can drop cash on a lower mileage, newer, used car worth roughly 30k give or take a few grand. I feel like that's reasonable given my circumstances. I wouldn't get stuck in payments for crappy base model hondas like a bunch of college grads my age are doing.
 

Ing

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My goal is to pay off my current car in the next few months. It'll be worth 14-16k for trade in. Then between that time and the end of next year I want to save up another 10-15k so I can drop cash on a lower mileage, newer, used car worth roughly 30k give or take a few grand. I feel like that's reasonable given my circumstances. I wouldn't get stuck in payments for crappy base model hondas like a bunch of college grads my age are doing.
Why don’t you drive a 1k car and invest the rest into a business ....?
 

Sethamus

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My goal is to pay off my current car in the next few months. It'll be worth 14-16k for trade in. Then between that time and the end of next year I want to save up another 10-15k so I can drop cash on a lower mileage, newer, used car worth roughly 30k give or take a few grand. I feel like that's reasonable given my circumstances. I wouldn't get stuck in payments for crappy base model hondas like a bunch of college grads my age are doing.
If you have zero issues with the current car and it is reliable, why not just pay it off and keep it? All you are doing is paying off a debt to save up $15k more and buy a nicer depreciating asset that will be worth 15k in 5 years. Leaving you in the same position. Use the 10-15k for something productive like buying a 2-4 plex in the next year and live in it. Even better if you get a good deal while still in a college town. Rent that baby out when you graduate. The higher rents should easily cover the management fees.
 

NewManRising

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I have a Jeep Renegade 2016 with 32k miles on it that I'm thinking about trading in. It's had a few issues in a year's time and it just worries me. Thinking about going for a Toyota but don't want to drop any extra money on it.

I used to drive a 2011 Ford Focus but needed something a little bigger and with more power. I also like having the 4 wheel drive. So, I am looking for something comparable to the Jeep.
 

mThree2K

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I agree fiercely on this one, it´s just a tool that takes you from A to B so in my mind I only conceive buying what I can afford cash and with it being a minor financial event.

If this means you can afford a Lambo cash without hesitating then go for it, if not then you will have to struggle with the maintenance costs which are a PITA.

Another matter is New vs. Used, I for myself always aim for a used car max 2-3 years old.

Why? Because those are still very nice when it comes to design etc and still have a lot of juice in them.
 

Kal-El1998

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I agree fiercely on this one, it´s just a tool that takes you from A to B so in my mind I only conceive buying what I can afford cash and with it being a minor financial event.

If this means you can afford a Lambo cash without hesitating then go for it, if not then you will have to struggle with the maintenance costs which are a PITA.

Another matter is New vs. Used, I for myself always aim for a used car max 2-3 years old.

Why? Because those are still very nice when it comes to design etc and still have a lot of juice in them.
So for me personally, cars are the one thing that I "splurge" on, if you can call it that. I don't care about having the best clothes, taking the fanciest vacations, eating steak every night, or even having the newest phones or computers. I'm a performance enthusiast within reason and put money each year towards my vehicle because it just makes me happy. I also buy 3-5 years old as well. I like finding the ones where depreciation has already hit and the miles are low.
 

Seamster

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Americans are totally nuts the way we act about cars. Even girls who don't know anything about cars will go in debt for some crappy new car. Example, look at a 2010 Ford Fusion (or Chevy Malibu) over the 2020 Chevy Trax:
  • $15k cheaper
  • less likely to roll over
  • heavier in front so better in snow
  • less drag in back so better on gas
  • smaller wheels so cheaper tires
  • longer wheelbase so better ride quality
  • no stupid turbo to ruin the plastic (?) engine and waste gas
  • bigger truck

I'm sure you could find a half a dozen guys on this forum who will tell you that buying a $40,000 Tesla would actually save you money over a beater because you don't have to pay for gas and upkeep. You could similarly find someone who thinks they need an $80k Sprinter van to be delivery driver.

And the plug-in hybrids are the worst. My buddy had some issue so I opened the hood and....nope! I'm not jumping into that cobweb of wires and crap I've never seen before. And he gets 30 miles per charge which is for all intent and purposes 50% the price of gasoline. So, even if he only drives 15 miles to and from work and charges every night, he pays $225/yr. If the same size car was 30 MPG, at $2.50/gallon, he'd pay $550/yr. So, he spent $15k on a used hybrid instead of keeping his old car, and he's spending MORE on maintenance, and he's saving a whopping $250/yr in fuel costs. And he's $15k broker with a car worth less than $7k and dropping. Should have kept the old one.

People brainwash themselves into justifying the cost of a new car.
 
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WJK

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Very rarely do I agree with Marketwatch's personal finance tips but I agree with this one.


Early in my entrepreneurial journey, my lust for fast cars really set me back in many ways.

Each time I was burdened with payments which forced me to work crappy jobs. All for an above average car that was merely a mask to an identity that I haven't yet achieved.

The nice car gave me a temporary ego boost (for about 1 month) and swiped away TIME and MONEY.

Nothing wrong with a nice car, even an exotic one.

But for the love of God, wait until you can afford to buy one, pay cash (or use cheap money) and not bat an eye about it.
Cars are the tip of the iceberg. It's anything that depreciates and requires payments. How much i s a designer purse worth after you take it home from the store? Used equipment on an average sells for 20 cents on a dollar. And there are some amazing buys out there IF you have cash.

Here's my example:
I had one of my men go to an auction at an impound yard early this year. He bought me the "Angry Wife's Truck" for around $1,800. It a top of the line, 2007, Dodge, 4 door, pickup with only about 125,000 miles on it. The "Angry Wife" who owned it, caught her husband while he was driving his girlfriend around in it. She took a baseball bat to the truck's front bumper, the windows and a fender. The police were called and she was arrested for attempted assault on her husband and his girlfriend. The truck was towed away. She refused to get the truck out of the impound yard. So, I bought it. My mechanic took it into our shop, and started fixing it. I now have about $6,000 into it. It drives great and it's a pretty truck again.

But, that's not the end of the story. I was telling my friend this story when she stopped by my office the other day. She parked her shiny new white Dodge pickup next to my "Angry Wife's Truck". She then explained that she had just picked up her truck recently from the dealer. When I asked her how much she had paid, she told me $60,000 cash out of her Dad's estate settlement -- but, they had wanted $77,000 -- so she had gotten a good deal. I told her that I would only spend $60,000 IF it had a foundation, and a tenant who creates a good cash flow. We had a good laugh. The bottom line is that she paid 10X what I've paid -- and the two trucks look like twins, only mine is blue. Somehow, I like mine better!
 
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Ing

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Well, I bought a new car in 2005.
I got 450000km on it. And its an old, crappy car for about 8years now.
And think what? I didn’t become rich in this time. ;)
There must be a mistake!

I got a 2004 SUV with only 95000 km on it. So I ll give the theory another try!
 

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